How much does losing Bruce Arians hurt the Colts?

[OldSchoolColt]

Sports analyst have sounded like our team took a huge lose when Arians left. We won't be the same without him. He did earn Coach of the Year and we did seem to rely on him a great deal. It is hard to believe we could have did so well last year without him. He was smart at getting the most out of the players he had to work with, especially Luck. He pushed him more than most would have, and it payed off. His offense worked and now we will not be using it. Hard to see Peyton playing in a WCO. If you want to know how important coaches are, look at how poor the Saints did without theirs. His passion and presents will be missed. Hamilton appears more like a tactician and less a leader. Just how worse off are we if any??

Edited April 23, 2013 by Superman

[willysp]

Sports analyst have sounded like our team took a huge lose when Arians left. We won't be the same without him. He did earn Coach of the Year and we did seem to rely on him a great deal. It is hard to believe we could have did so well last year without him. He was smart at getting the most out of the players he had to work with, especially Luck. He pushed him more than most would have, and it payed off. His offense worked and now we will not be using it. Hard to see Peyton playing in a WCO. If you want to know how important coaches are, look at how poor the Saints did without theirs. His passion and presents will be missed. Hamilton appears more like a tactician and less a leader. Just how worse off are we if any??

 

Not a huge loss, though I have tremendous respect for what he did last year.  His value was motivation and leadership of the team, not especially just OC.

 

I wasn't terribly impressed with O schemes - I think Pep will do better.

 

And - huh???    What does Peyton have to do with this?

Edited April 23, 2013 by Superman

[FightLikeSin]

I believe that Arians' offense actually crippled our team's production. Luck should be greatful he was never seriously injured with as much as he was asked to drop back behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. When Bruce took the job in Arizona, I said good riddance, as much as I respected his leadership and motivation...I wasn't sad to see him go. It was nice and rewarding when some of the plays worked, but the screens and run plays were painfully obvious. I can't wait to see our new offense in action with Pep running things. I believe it will be highly improved in terms of points and efficiency. 

[ClaytonC]

I go back and forth on this.  I do respect BA , but I think he hurt the offense at least as much as he helped, if not more.

I expect our offense to be much better this year.

[Wesk7]

As far a needing a leader Pagano should do fine. Arians stepped up because Pagano was gone most of the year. Losing Arians but getting our original HC back for the year will allow Pep to concentrate on being the best OC he can be. He will definitely vary the play calling more and get Luck's completion percentage up.

[TKnight24]

This question depends on who you ask

Ask NFL Network: We're gonna suck this year without him. When they did the schedule release, that's all they kept saying.

Ask Andrew Luck: He's now in an offense that plays to his strengths

Ask Me: Bruce Arians was a good coach & will be missed, but we're moving forward and building the monster

[BPM_Colt]

I think the main impact he had is motivation and leadership for the team..

 

Hurts to lose something like that, but from articles I've read, our young guys are plenty motivated after last years playoff loss

[SteelCityColt]

 His offense worked and now we will not be using it. 

 

Yes and no, I think there was some miracle plays that got Ws but overall as a scheme it didn't play to strengths that we did have and exposed our weak O Line far too much. Luck wasn't perfect by any means last year but he really got thrown into the grinder by BA. It was something I couldn't understand at all last year, you've in effect invested all the short term future of the franchise in one player, why the heck would you keep putting him in situations where he's going to get dinged up.

 

 

In short, I'm thankful for what BA did for us, but I won't miss him as OC. 

Edited April 23, 2013 by Superman

[Black-Vell]

We wont miss BA at all. Whats interesting is how much credit do you give BA for the success of our offense?

 

Because I dont see him having the same success in Arizona.  

[Smonroe]

Hated the empty backfield, loved his aggressiveness. You want big results you have to gamble big. I wasn't crazy about the way he left Luck exposed but he survived and we made the playoffs.

Only time is going to tell how much he'll be missed. As NCF pointed out, we really don't know what we're getting with Pep yet.

[james_zeigler1994]

It don't hurt them at all this new offense will help luck and take the colts to new heights.

[shakedownstreet]

they just say that to sound smart because of the alex smith situation that happened in san fran. andrew luck is no alex smith

[schwamm]

I would argue that BA was a very good teacher and motivator. I would argue that Luck benefitted from being thrown into the fire. Under BA, he learned how to stretch the field (which wasn't a huge part of his game in college), and how to play under NFL caliber pressure. Luck wasn't perfect in his rookie campaign, but nobody would dispute that he gained unbelievable experience.

If we assume Luck is a quick learner, what he needs now is not a teacher, but a tactician who can blend what BA taught him with the best of what Luck did well in college. Throw in a decent OLine, and give a guy who can think and react quickly some time... LOOK OUT!

I think this could be an absolutely ideal fit for Luck's continuing development, and for the offense as a whole.

[lollygagger8]

I think BA is a better leader/coach that a play caller.

 

 

 

By far.

[OldSchoolColt]

Not a huge loss, though I have tremendous respect for what he did last year.  His value was motivation and leadership of the team, not especially just OC.

 

I wasn't terribly impressed with O schemes - I think Pep will do better.

 

And - huh???    What does Peyton have to do with this?

 

I compare Luck to Peyton and see that Arians made use of Luck's ability to get the ball down field like Peyton was able to do. His offense worked.

[MikeVander]

Play calling is easier from the coach...

[AntonMcG]

There is no question, despite all the uncertainty regarding our new offensive scheme, that this year will be a vast improvement from a statistics department, especially for Luck, and probably for Ballard/Brown.

 

However, I think people forget just how effective Arians' offense was at times, and how much it got out of a lot of our players. Hilton was maybe the 10th receiver taken in the draft, but he was the most productive. Wayne had one of his best seasons ever because he went into motion pre-snap, Luck threw for rookie record yardage.

 

Look at our offense on paper last year, and we had Reggie Wayne and a promising and hyped rookie QB, nothing else of note. People are quick to blame our redzone ineffectiveness on our scheme, but a lot of it may have been all the rookies on the field and the horrific o-line. If people think we would have done more last year in another scheme then I think they forget the tools we had to work with.

 

What Arians did certainly did not flatter our QB in NFL Stats Center, but what he did do is stretch the field, which makes for much larger throwing areas and more chances to get up the field, we did not play 3-down football. I actually think if we had invested heavily in the o-line this year, Arians' offense would be a hit. When run properly, it takes safeties out of the box, it allows more room underneath and it is always dangerous.

 

That being said, it did not match up entirely with Luck's skillset, which is of course hugely important, but the baptism of fire he got last year would not have been replicated in any other system and I am confident of that.

 

The past is the past and I like where we are going with this offense, but please do not undermine the extent of what last year's offense did against all conceivable odds.

[BrentMc11]

I would argue that BA was a very good teacher and motivator. I would argue that Luck benefitted from being thrown into the fire. Under BA, he learned how to stretch the field (which wasn't a huge part of his game in college), and how to play under NFL caliber pressure. Luck wasn't perfect in his rookie campaign, but nobody would dispute that he gained unbelievable experience.

If we assume Luck is a quick learner, what he needs now is not a teacher, but a tactician who can blend what BA taught him with the best of what Luck did well in college. Throw in a decent OLine, and give a guy who can think and react quickly some time... LOOK OUT!

I think this could be an absolutely ideal fit for Luck's continuing development, and for the offense as a whole.

Absolutely well stated schwamm.....and may I say the avatar should read "Kid with a real nose for the pigskin?"  

 

Via our own Colts.com, here is Bruce Arians' coaching resume:  No matter what anyone thinks, BA has been well respected for a very long time.  Experience MATTERS!  Coach Pagano was down and out,(We were too after the 2-14 debacle) and Arians stepped up and did one of the best coaching jobs in the history of the league...arguably the best 'interim head coach EVER."

 

 

Coaching Career

1975-1976:  Virginia Tech - Graduate Assistant

1977: Virginia Tech - Running Backs

1978-1980: Mississippi State - Running Backs/Wide Receivers

1981-1982: Alabama - Running Backs

1983-1988: Temple - Head Coach

1989-1992: Kansas City Chiefs - Running Backs

1993-1995: Mississippi State - Offensive Coordinator

1996: New Orleans Saints - Tight Ends

1997: Alabama - Offensive Coordinator

1998-2000: Indianapolis Colts - Quarterbacks

2001-2003: Cleveland Browns - Offensive Coordinator

2004-2006: Pittsburgh Steelers - Wide Receivers

2007-2011: Pittsburgh Steelers - Offensive Coordinator

2012: Indianapolis Colts - Offensive Coordinator/interim head coach

 

It has been stated that Pep Hamilton will be using a "No Coast" Offense that has some Arians, some Moore/Peyton/Clyde C principles as well as the West Coast offense....maybe a little Zone Read thrown in...  So in essence....that is called "pot luck."  

 

What I like that we will get away from with Hamilton is the 7 step drops with the awful OL play we had last year.  We will see 2 and 3 step drops, designed roll outs and play action/delayed draws to keep the defense honest and from teeing off on Number 12.  We have got to protect the 'investment.'

 

Being that I am old school, I loved Arians in terms of intensity and accountability.  While he did not bash players in the media, you could always see him encouraging/teaching in an intense sideline demeanor.  I think we lose a little of that with Pep, but we gain it back with the 'feisty one' Coach Pagano.  I hope Pep has Pep in his step so to speak.

 

To summarize, there is no doubt that in many ways that Bruce Arians will be missed.  Coach Pagano is back, but truth be told we were 2-3 with Pags at the helm including playoffs.  (I love you coach...just stating figures)  Pep is new to NFL Coordinating.  As we move to Thursday and continue to build this football team there are questions....we will answer them soon!!!  I cannot wait.  Go                    :throwback:  :throwback: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Rich Cannon]

I dont think BA leaving will hurt us as much as some might assume.  Hamiliton was Lucks offensive coordinator during Lucks senior season at Stanford.  So im sure hes fully aware of Lucks strengths and weaknesses on the field.  Imo we will be fine in the long run. One things for sure, Luck wont be throwing the ball 40 times a game like he did last season. 

[PrincetonTiger]

BA's departure won't be felt too much with the return of Chuck and arrival of Pep

[House]

Very little.

[TKnight24]

Hated the empty backfield, loved his aggressiveness. You want big results you have to gamble big. I wasn't crazy about the way he left Luck exposed but he survived and we made the playoffs.

Only time is going to tell how much he'll be missed. As NCF pointed out, we really don't know what we're getting with Pep yet.

"You want big results, you gotta gamble big"

^ Tell that to the 49ers. They just have Kapernick fake a handoff then Sprint to the endzone for a touchdown. Not really a big gamble, but a big result

[TKnight24]

I dont think BA leaving will hurt us as much as some might assume. Hamiliton was Lucks offensive coordinator during Lucks senior season at Stanford. So im sure hes fully aware of Lucks strengths and weaknesses on the field. Imo we will be fine in the long run. One things for sure, Luck wont be throwing the ball 40 times a game like he did last season.

He will if the run game doesn't pick up

[TKnight24]

they just say that to sound smart because of the alex smith situation that happened in san fran. andrew luck is no alex smith

Shakedown, it's against forum rules to use those 2 names in the same sentence. It's taking personal shots against Andrew

[In Luck We Trust]

Sports analyst have sounded like our team took a huge lose when Arians left. We won't be the same without him. He did earn Coach of the Year and we did seem to rely on him a great deal. It is hard to believe we could have did so well last year without him. He was smart at getting the most out of the players he had to work with, especially Luck. He pushed him more than most would have, and it payed off. His offense worked and now we will not be using it. Hard to see Peyton playing in a WCO. If you want to know how important coaches are, look at how poor the Saints did without theirs. His passion and presents will be missed. Hamilton appears more like a tactician and less a leader. Just how worse off are we if any??

you also got to factor in the saints also lost some key defensive players whether it was to FA or suspension due to the bounty issues. plus i also dont believe the saints heads were 100% in their games and more on the matter of Sean Payton being suspended. 

Edited April 23, 2013 by Superman

[mark5362]

he left before and we survived

[TKnight24]

he left before and we survived

Wait, when'd he leave? Only game I remember him not being at was the Ravens game due to the hospital incident. So what do you mean?

[Rich Cannon]

He will if the run game doesn't pick up

 

I think we will have a better ratio of running the ball this season, just due to Hamiltons play calling at Stanford, well at least im hoping for a better ratio lol

[HungarianColtsFan]

Well, IMO it depends on Pep's work. If he would build up a viable offense that can protect an help Luck, then Arians' departure won't hit us at all.

 

 

Go Colts, go Coach!!!

[BOTT]

BA as a person > Offensive Coordinator. Hate to say it, but I'm glad he got the AZ job.

[jskinnz]

Personally I think trying to figure out BA's impact over Hamilton is a lot of wasted energy.  The fact is right now we have no idea.  Further even if it gets to be in season, will we really have an idea?  I doubt it.  What if the Oline is a cohesive unit this year that affords Luck the time that he did not have last year?  If that is the case surely his numbers improve.  Would that improvement also have happened under BA? 

 

If Luck's completion % goes up and INT's down, is that solely the result of Hamilton? 

 

Just go play and add 'em up at the end.  Anything else is just guessing.

[BrentMc11]

I am loving these opinions....both for and against BA.....we are a harsh crowd.  

 

Never in my wildest dreams did I think we would go 11-5 last year.  

 

This is what makes this place so fun.....go 2-14.....fire em all....go 11-5....."We will not miss the coach."  "Very Little we will....etc..."  This is good stuff.

 

LT-AC  LG Olsen C-Satele/Shipley RG Mc-Awful RT Justice/Link/Sowell.....

 

Most of the year with ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  I think the year was pretty special....and look forward to this year too...

[chad72]

Did Luck learn a lot under BA? You betcha he did. From the vast playbook to learning from mistakes as to when to go for it and when not to take chances, Luck learnt a lot. Besides, being his first year, he learnt about speed of NFL Ds as well. Arians was very forgiving with Luck knowing Luck's ceiling and that helped with Luck's confidence, I am certain.

 

Things Luck did not benefit from - RB and TE completions to boost efficiency, lousy O-line that led to rollouts happening due to Luck running for his life than actually being designed , predictable playcalling.

 

Where we will miss Arians is if Pep Hamilton ends on the other side of the spectrum and is a tad too conservative for our liking. Arians, even if he takes chances, does not back down even when the stakes are high. Case in point, Big Ben could have played the odds vs the Jets in the 2010 AFCCG by running the ball and putting on the Steelers D to win it for him with a TD needed from the Jets to win (cough Mike McCoy, cough Peyton). But Arians had him take a rollout and make a pass on the run to Antonio Brown and the Steelers went to the SB. Arians is a less strategic Sean Payton, IMO. Aggressive but without enough methods to his "mad scientist" madness.

 

You don't survive this long in the NFL like Arians without knowing how to coach QBs (Peyton, Big Ben, Luck to name a few ) and provide them confidence. Pep Hamilton might end up being the right OC for Luck but Arians was probably a better motivator, especially for a guy that is as laid back as Luck that sometimes needs a jolt or two from a guy like Arians. You could see how that was missing in the playoff game with Christensen, the fire in the belly that does not back down, that defines Arians, IMO.

[atapcl]

 

Absolutely well stated schwamm.....and may I say the avatar should read "Kid with a real nose for the pigskin?"  

 

Via our own Colts.com, here is Bruce Arians' coaching resume:  No matter what anyone thinks, BA has been well respected for a very long time.  Experience MATTERS!  Coach Pagano was down and out,(We were too after the 2-14 debacle) and Arians stepped up and did one of the best coaching jobs in the history of the league...arguably the best 'interim head coach EVER."

 

 

Coaching Career

1975-1976:  Virginia Tech - Graduate Assistant

1977: Virginia Tech - Running Backs

1978-1980: Mississippi State - Running Backs/Wide Receivers

1981-1982: Alabama - Running Backs

1983-1988: Temple - Head Coach

1989-1992: Kansas City Chiefs - Running Backs

1993-1995: Mississippi State - Offensive Coordinator

1996: New Orleans Saints - Tight Ends

1997: Alabama - Offensive Coordinator

1998-2000: Indianapolis Colts - Quarterbacks

2001-2003: Cleveland Browns - Offensive Coordinator

2004-2006: Pittsburgh Steelers - Wide Receivers

2007-2011: Pittsburgh Steelers - Offensive Coordinator

2012: Indianapolis Colts - Offensive Coordinator/interim head coach

 

It has been stated that Pep Hamilton will be using a "No Coast" Offense that has some Arians, some Moore/Peyton/Clyde C principles as well as the West Coast offense....maybe a little Zone Read thrown in...  So in essence....that is called "pot luck."  

 

What I like that we will get away from with Hamilton is the 7 step drops with the awful OL play we had last year.  We will see 2 and 3 step drops, designed roll outs and play action/delayed draws to keep the defense honest and from teeing off on Number 12.  We have got to protect the 'investment.'

 

Being that I am old school, I loved Arians in terms of intensity and accountability.  While he did not bash players in the media, you could always see him encouraging/teaching in an intense sideline demeanor.  I think we lose a little of that with Pep, but we gain it back with the 'feisty one' Coach Pagano.  I hope Pep has Pep in his step so to speak.

 

To summarize, there is no doubt that in many ways that Bruce Arians will be missed.  Coach Pagano is back, but truth be told we were 2-3 with Pags at the helm including playoffs.  (I love you coach...just stating figures)  Pep is new to NFL Coordinating.  As we move to Thursday and continue to build this football team there are questions....we will answer them soon!!!  I cannot wait.  Go                    :throwback:  :throwback: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

http://www.colts.com/team/coaches/Pep-Hamilton/1cc6c124-8417-4aef-be96-43d2704526a6 Pep is new as an NFL coordinator but not new to the NFL. Grigson and Pagano thought enough of him to hire him over Clyde. I was thrilled Ariens did the job he did but I hope Pep is the next new inovator comming to the NFL.

[Buck Showalter]

Good thread...

I hit several like buttons...

Can't really say anything that hasn't been said...

[CR91]

i think what analysis seem to forget that because of arians offense, luck took a beating. they want to blame the o-line which they should, but it takes awhile for a deep route to develop and not wanting to dump it off will lead to getting hit.

[BrentMc11]

http://www.colts.com/team/coaches/Pep-Hamilton/1cc6c124-8417-4aef-be96-43d2704526a6 Pep is new as an NFL coordinator but not new to the NFL. Grigson and Pagano thought enough of him to hire him over Clyde. I was thrilled Ariens did the job he did but I hope Pep is the next new inovator comming to the NFL.

I in NO way wanted the Clyde  Pep is fine...just giving credit to experience and an 11-5 record.  I just do not think we would have achieved it without solid experience at the interim helm.    

[Ja'Crispy]

I think there's no doubt he helped Luck immensely and got him off to a good start. With that did come a lot of beatings, interceptions, and "how the heck did he do that?" type of plays. But I think Luck will be more comfortable in this system. His numbers should improve. Let us just hope this doesn't turn in to an Alex Smith changing of OCs every year

[oldunclemark]

Understand that National commentators dont watch Indy very closely....

They watch the teams they played for and the east and west coast teams..

So since they know little about the team and players..they pick up on simplistic things...

 

 

The Colts didnt have a great offense last year........they made big plays.....and Bruce A. rightfully relied on them because the line wanst good

The idea that Andrew Luck will find it a hardship to pick up the offense of his college offensive coordinator is a nonthinking thought..

 

But I think that co-ordinators are all somewhat overrated....Who is the OC at Denver, Or New England  Or Green Bay?

New Orleans didnt suffer last year due to the abscence of coach Peyton......They suffered because they had (and still have) a bad defense 

I want to predict  that Andrew Luck and a better line will make whatever the new coordinator installs work...

[Warhorse]

Ben Rothlis(whatever) had his best numbers through him.......but he is limping around now on a bum ankle from getting hit so much with those slow developing plays.