How much does losing Bruce Arians hurt the Colts?

[NewColtsFan]

I think we will miss BA plenty.     Yes, I didn't like his offense.    Yes,  I didn't like his play calling.    But overall,  I liked him as a coach.   

 

We'll miss his experience most of all.   Remember, while Pep has some NFL experience (not a lot)  he has no NFL experience as a Coordinator.   None.   And I believe that is going to hurt us. 

 

While we were using the wrong offense last year, both from Luck's perspective, and the perspective of our weak OL,  at least we ran it well.    We were a well coached team.

 

An example:    Our winning play against Detroit....  the short Luck flip to Avery... 3... 2... 1...  TD  Game Over!    The players said they practiced that very play the day before while doing their walk-through...    so, they were ready.   On that level, I think we'll miss BA badly.

 

Pep is a Big Blank Slate.   I'm not sure what to expect.    I won't have a feel at all until we play good teams....   I think we have SF in week 3,  Seattle in week 5, and Denver in week 7....   then, a bye in week 8....

 

I'll have a much better feel for Pep once he's coached against top notch NFL opponents....    but until then....... ?

[AntonMcG]

Understand that National commentators dont watch Indy very closely....

They watch the teams they played for and the east and west coast teams..

So since they know little about the team and players..they pick up on simplistic things...

 

 

The Colts didnt have a great offense last year........they made big plays.....and Bruce A. rightfully relied on them because the line wanst good

The idea that Andrew Luck will find it a hardship to pick up the offense of his college offensive coordinator is a nonthinking thought..

 

But I think that co-ordinators are all somewhat overrated....Who is the OC at Denver, Or New England  Or Green Bay?

New Orleans didnt suffer last year due to the abscence of coach Peyton......They suffered because they had (and still have) a bad defense 

I want to predict  that Andrew Luck and a better line will make whatever the new coordinator installs work...

 

Josh McDaniels is the best OC in football. Mike McCoy got the Charger HC job after last year with the Broncos. Co-Ordinators build the scheme, the playbooks and call the plays for every scenario. They are infinitely vital to the success of the team.

[House]

I think we will miss BA plenty. Yes, I didn't like his offense. Yes, I didn't like his play calling. But overall, I liked him as a coach.

We'll miss his experience most of all. Remember, while Pep has some NFL experience (not a lot) he has no NFL experience as a Coordinator. None. And I believe that is going to hurt us.

While we were using the wrong offense last year, both from Luck's perspective, and the perspective of our weak OL, at least we ran it well. We were a well coached team.

An example: Our winning play against Detroit.... the short Luck flip to Avery... 3... 2... 1... TD Game Over! The players said they practiced that very play the day before while doing their walk-through... so, they were ready. On that level, I think we'll miss BA badly.

Pep is a Big Blank Slate. I'm not sure what to expect. I won't have a feel at all until we play good teams.... I think we have SF in week 3, Seattle in week 5, and Denver in week 7.... then, a bye in week 8....

I'll have a much better feel for Pep once he's coached against top notch NFL opponents.... but until then....... ?

You really seem quite pessimistic when it comes to our new OC lol.

[John Waylon]

I think we'll be just fine. It's not like his offense was a foundation of this team, and even though Luck did well in his offense, we're switching to an offense that made Luck the best QB prospect in a generation. 

[NewColtsFan]

You really seem quite pessimistic when it comes to our new OC lol.

 

 

 

 

I don't mean to be pessimistic....   I've labeled myself as being "Missouri" when it comes to Pep...

 

He needs to show me....

 

He was only an OC at Stanford for two years.     

 

The first year he had Luck/DeCastro/Fleener/Martin and lots of other very good talent.   We out-talented and out-schemed and out-coached most everyone we played.     

 

The second year we had serious offensive talent issues...  but most in the Stanford community thought our play calling, our scheme was very, very poor.    Hard to know just how much of that was Pep and how much of that was personnel.

 

Just too small of a sample size to know....

 

So,  he's a blank slate to me....   I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic.    But I'm a little skeptical until I see what we do with my own eyes....

 

Then,  I'll know.....

[BOTT]

Ben Rothlis(whatever) had his best numbers through him.......but he is limping around now on a bum ankle from getting hit so much with those slow developing plays.

Until he got hurt, many thought Ben was having his best season under Todd Haley.

[oldunclemark]

Josh McDaniels is the best OC in football. Mike McCoy got the Charger HC job after last year with the Broncos. Co-Ordinators build the scheme, the playbooks and call the plays for every scenario. They are infinitely vital to the success of the team.

Actually I didnt want to you to tell me who the cordinators were.,

 

I was making a point.about the succes of those teams and the QBs on them

When you judge assistant coaches, dont judge them against nothing..judge them against orher offensive assistant coaches..

Any QB with any co-ordinator of any quality will succeed...is my point..

 

No coach is infinetly vital to the success of any pro team...because there are replaced, most times, by coaches of quality

All offensive systems CAN work. I dont think coaches MAKE offensive skill players..

Players make coaches.

[oldunclemark]

I think we'll be just fine. It's not like his offense was a foundation of this team, and even though Luck did well in his offense, we're switching to an offense that made Luck the best QB prospect in a generation. 

..and there is a question of how much we're changing.

 

Very soon this will be Andrew Luck's offense as Denver is Peyton Manning's offense..no matter who the coordinator is

[Rblake]

BA was an enormous loss.  He was a very good strategist and an excellent motivator.  Those are two very important, and difficult to replace, factors in any position coach or coordinator.

 

Luck should be able to pick up his new OC's adapted-to-the-NFL offense with relative ease.  I'm more concerned with how the OL and DL have been improved.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I think Arians did a great job and have tons of respect for him.  I think our O will be better with Pep running it.  I think Pagano has plenty of leadership.  While I respect Bruce, I don't think his loss will effect us negatively at all.

[shakedownstreet]

the saints floundered without payton because the have poor locker room/assistant coach leadership. what we have here in indy cannot be compared to the saints

 

the fact that payton was brought back after bountygate tells you all you need to know about the saints organization from top to bottom. anyone involved in such a thing in indy would have been FIRED

[#12]

I think the main impact he had is motivation and leadership for the team..

 

I thought he made an excellent head coach - great attitude, great leader. 

[Superman]

Arians was a positive force for our team last season, and there's no way we go 11-5 without him. I appreciate everything he did. But I think his system would have held Luck and the offense back.

 

I'm not sure Pep Hamilton is the right choice to take his place; we'll find out about that. But I'm glad we are going to be running something different, something that has the potential to improve our efficiency on offense and keep Luck from getting battered like he did last year.

[SOMDColtsfan]

I liked Arians "grab them by the throat" mentality and leadership. But came to realize after so many negative postings on here that he really didnt "adjust" his playcalling with the horrid O-line the Colts had. I get that now. He did an amazing job as HC here and wish him the best..or 2nd best (behind the Colts) in Arizona

[oldunclemark]

Actually I didnt want to you to tell me who the cordinators were.,

 

I was making a point.about the succes of those teams and the QBs on them

When you judge assistant coaches, dont judge them against nothing..judge them against orher offensive assistant coaches..

Any QB with any co-ordinator of any quality will succeed...is my point..

 

No coach is infinetly vital to the success of any pro team...because there are replaced, most times, by coaches of quality

All offensive systems CAN work. I dont think coaches MAKE offensive skill players..

Players make coaches.

What I meant to say was that any GOOD QB with ANY co-ordintaor of quality will succeed.

Luck seems very involved and his input will help create the game plans, especially now.

 

Its HIS offense

[BPM_Colt]

I thought he made an excellent head coach - great attitude, great leader. 

I would definitely agree with that. Thats what landed him a job in AZ, along with other calls from teams this off season

[Superman]

I liked Arians "grab them by the throat" mentality and leadership. But came to realize after so many negative postings on here that he really didnt "adjust" his playcalling with the horrid O-line the Colts had. I get that now. He did an amazing job as HC here and wish him the best..or 2nd best (behind the Colts) in Arizona

 

I agree. He was definitely a net-positive as the head coach, given his broader reach. But some of his positives become irrelevant when he goes back to being a coordinator, because he's not making decisions on 4th down or two point conversions (two areas where I thought he was close to excellent), nor is he the one taking the bull by the horns late in the game. So is it still a net-positive? I'm not so sure.

 

The thing that made me the most nervous about losing Arians was the possibility that we'd promote Clyde Christensen again. Given that we dodged that bullet, I'm now excited about the possibilities with a new coordinator and a modified offense. I hope Pep isn't a dud, but so long as Luck continues to make plays the offense will be okay. I just hope we're more efficient and that the offensive line plays better.

[TKnight24]

As long as Luck, Whalen, & Fleener play the mentor roles since they're most familiar then we'll be fine. Fleener should get Allen & Saunders up to speed. Luck get the oline & RB's. And Whalen helps TY, DHB, & all our other young WR's.

Of course no one really needs to "mentor" Reggie, he's just that good

[chad72]

As long as Luck, Whalen, & Fleener play the mentor roles since they're most familiar then we'll be fine. Fleener should get Allen & Saunders up to speed. Luck get the oline & RB's. And Whalen helps TY, DHB, & all our other young WR's.

Of course no one really needs to "mentor" Reggie, he's just that good

 

I think Fleener and Whalen need to worry about making the starting roster and not "mentoring". They may share some concepts when they talk with their fellow position guys but it is a big reach to state that they would be "mentoring" anyone. Every year, everyone starts from scratch and starting spots on the roster need to be earned.

 

I'd personally prefer Fleener and Whalen to produce on the field than worry about "mentoring"

[a06cc]

We're not running any type of Stanford West coast offense for the last time lol. As long as our running backs can average 4 yards a carry then we can win any game. We need to run the ball to have any new offensive scheme work.

[rabidfan77]

We wont miss BA at all. Whats interesting is how much credit do you give BA for the success of our offense?

 

Because I dont see him having the same success in Arizona.  I think BA will do good in AZ because he has players in Fitz and Palmer( who can still throw deep) to run his style of offense. BA challenge will be shoring up the O-line so that Palmer doesn't get killed like Luck almost did last year. But I'd be lying if I said i'd miss BA, i'll be happy to see the team protect Luck more in both O-line play and play-calling under Pep(who Luck has a relationship with). 

[BrentMc11]

I think Fleener and Whalen need to worry about making the starting roster and not "mentoring". They may share some concepts when they talk with their fellow position guys but it is a big reach to state that they would be "mentoring" anyone. Every year, everyone starts from scratch and starting spots on the roster need to be earned.

 

I'd personally prefer Fleener and Whalen to produce on the field than worry about "mentoring"

2nd time today we were writing the same thing at the same time.....glad I checked....you have to make some plays to make the team....you are not handed a spot.

[mark5362]

Wait, when'd he leave? Only game I remember him not being at was the Ravens game due to the hospital incident. So what do you mean?

He was Peyton's QB coach 1998-2000

[TKnight24]

I think Fleener and Whalen need to worry about making the starting roster and not "mentoring". They may share some concepts when they talk with their fellow position guys but it is a big reach to state that they would be "mentoring" anyone. Every year, everyone starts from scratch and starting spots on the roster need to be earned.

I'd personally prefer Fleener and Whalen to produce on the field than worry about "mentoring"

So you're saying Fleener is in danger of not making the roster? We only have 3 TE's. And he was our 2nd best (Allen was 1st) TE last year. I think he makes it. Having Pep makes it that much easier for him

[HarassedOffTheSite]

None

[chad72]

So you're saying Fleener is in danger of not making the roster? We only have 3 TE's. And he was our 2nd best (Allen was 1st) TE last year. I think he makes it. Having Pep makes it that much easier for him

 

I am not saying he is in danger. I am just saying he will have to earn it, like the rest of them, working hard for it, and thus the time to "mentor" others is not a luxury or responsibility he will have, IMO.

 

He has better things to take care of, in a nutshell.

[TKnight24]

I am not saying he is in danger. I am just saying he will have to earn it, like the rest of them, working hard for it, and thus the time to "mentor" others is not a luxury or responsibility he will have, IMO.

He has better things to take care of, in a nutshell.

I'm not saying mentor them 100% of the time. But giving the others pointers & everything about the scheme & terminology. That's what I'm saying. Of course he has to focus on getting himself improved and all, but doesn't mean he can't be a helping hand

[AntonMcG]

Actually I didnt want to you to tell me who the cordinators were.,

 

I was making a point.about the succes of those teams and the QBs on them

When you judge assistant coaches, dont judge them against nothing..judge them against orher offensive assistant coaches..

Any QB with any co-ordinator of any quality will succeed...is my point..

 

No coach is infinetly vital to the success of any pro team...because there are replaced, most times, by coaches of quality

All offensive systems CAN work. I dont think coaches MAKE offensive skill players..

Players make coaches.

 

Good coaches play to the strength of their players. All offensive schemes will only work when it matches of to their player's skill-sets. Exploiting mismatches and keeping the defense guessing are vital components of the success of an offense, all originating from the OC.

 

To disregard their importance is incredibly naive.

[AntonMcG]

What I meant to say was that any GOOD QB with ANY co-ordintaor of quality will succeed.

Luck seems very involved and his input will help create the game plans, especially now.

 

Its HIS offense

 

No it isn't. He didn't write the playbook and he has yet to call many plays at the LOS.

[BrentMc11]

No it isn't. He didn't write the playbook and he has yet to call many plays at the LOS.

The day shall come....  the day shall come.....TOO SOON!  

 

Everybody seems to think even the terminology will be the same...

 

That is naive....cannot be copy and pasted....

[AntonMcG]

I'm not saying mentor them 100% of the time. But giving the others pointers & everything about the scheme & terminology. That's what I'm saying. Of course he has to focus on getting himself improved and all, but doesn't mean he can't be a helping hand

 

Once again, we are not running Stanford's offense.

[AntonMcG]

The day shall come....  the day shall come.....TOO SOON!  

 

Everybody seems to think even the terminology will be the same...

 

That is naive....cannot be copy and pasted....

 

Exactly, there is relevance behind terminology that are specific to situation, it's not plug-and-play between playbooks.

[BrentMc11]

Exactly, there is relevance behind terminology that are specific to situation, it's not plug-and-play between playbooks.

Some think it is as simple as "Hey Batter Batter in the Minor league....little league...."

 

Change s GOOD!!

[AntonMcG]

Some think it is as simple as "Hey Batter Batter in the Minor league....little league...."

 

Change s GOOD!!

 

Good change is good.

[BrentMc11]

Good change is good.

Excellent point.....

 

Change to disguise....Priceless in the NFL.....any sport for that matter other than curling.

[BrentMc11]

Good change is good.

That is why I liked your very first post in this thread. You showed both sides.  I stayed positive for a change....and other than pointing out the offensive line deficiencies...I wanted BA to look good for all of his years of experience and getting us to 11-5.

 

Obviously he was over matched at times in terms of calling TOs, play calling was bad at times (time management)....but having the troops ready to play...was flat out solid.

 

Nice posts Anton...very well done.  

[NewColtsFan]

We're not running any type of Stanford West coast offense for the last time lol. As long as our running backs can average 4 yards a carry then we can win any game. We need to run the ball to have any new offensive scheme work.

 

 

You can say it's 'the last time'....   but I think you're going to have to repeat that quite often....

 

Luck says he's familiar with about 75% of the new offense.    I think there will be a fair amount of the Stanford offense in front of you for all the fans to see....

 

I don't know why you think otherwise.....

[schwamm]

Absolutely well stated schwamm.....and may I say the avatar should read "Kid with a real nose for the pigskin?"

Thanks for the suggestion!

[John Dee]

Honestly I think Bruce will miss Andrew (Colts) way more than Andrew misses Bruce.

 

I think we will miss BA plenty.     Yes, I didn't like his offense.    Yes,  I didn't like his play calling.    But overall,  I liked him as a coach.   

 

We'll miss his experience most of all.   Remember, while Pep has some NFL experience (not a lot)  he has no NFL experience as a Coordinator.   None.   And I believe that is going to hurt us. 

 

While we were using the wrong offense last year, both from Luck's perspective, and the perspective of our weak OL,  at least we ran it well.    We were a well coached team.

 

An example:    Our winning play against Detroit....  the short Luck flip to Avery... 3... 2... 1...  TD  Game Over!    The players said they practiced that very play the day before while doing their walk-through...    so, they were ready.   On that level, I think we'll miss BA badly.

 

Pep is a Big Blank Slate.   I'm not sure what to expect.    I won't have a feel at all until we play good teams....   I think we have SF in week 3,  Seattle in week 5, and Denver in week 7....   then, a bye in week 8....

 

I'll have a much better feel for Pep once he's coached against top notch NFL opponents....    but until then....... ?

[SOMDColtsfan]

I agree. He was definitely a net-positive as the head coach, given his broader reach. But some of his positives become irrelevant when he goes back to being a coordinator, because he's not making decisions on 4th down or two point conversions (two areas where I thought he was close to excellent), nor is he the one taking the bull by the horns late in the game. So is it still a net-positive? I'm not so sure.

 

The thing that made me the most nervous about losing Arians was the possibility that we'd promote Clyde Christensen again. Given that we dodged that bullet, I'm now excited about the possibilities with a new coordinator and a modified offense. I hope Pep isn't a dud, but so long as Luck continues to make plays the offense will be okay. I just hope we're more efficient and that the offensive line plays better.

Good point on Christensen, wonder if he would take bits and pieces of different offenses (Tom Moore, Arians) etc. and do his own thing if given the chance? The lack of running game goes all the way back to "the Edge" after his knee injury. God I hope the Colts can bulldoze some people this year and open the passing game off of that!