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Darius Butler vs. Cassius Vaughn


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#1 Mr.Debonair

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:06 PM

I would feel much more comfortable with Butler starting instead of Vaughn but maybe the coaches see something on film or in practice to justify Vaughn starting.

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#2 manning04

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

Butler has been good covering in the Nickel package. i think if we can find someone in the DRaft or FA. we keep Butler in the Nickel... but Vaughn if in his last yr of his contract won't be returning i think.


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#3 Coltswarriors

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

Butler is a good nickel.

Vaughn I can not stand... We have nothing else though so have to stick with him.

#4 Smonroe

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:17 PM

Butler is a good nickel.Vaughn I can not stand... We have nothing else though so have to stick with him.

Besides him not being able to cover or tackle, what's not to like about Vaughn?

#5 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:30 PM

Butler is a great nickle guy


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#6 Demon

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

Davis, Rhodes (draft), Butler and a quality FA would be nice.



#7 Andy

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

The way the Colts have it now is the best way.


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#8 atapcl

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

The way the Colts have it now is the best way.

Butler  is better against the pass but terrible against the run. Vaughn is solid against the run but below average against the pass. Starting Vaughn and bringing in Butler for the pass is the best way for now.



#9 ColtJ82

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

Vaughn drives me insane. Also, the other team's best WR always lines up on his side. I wish we bounce are CBs around so that Davis was always on the #1.



#10 krunk

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

We should leave Butler right where he is.  He is doing quite well there.  In free agency or the draft we need to find a better #2 than Vaughn.  Although I don't think Vaughn is that bad as others do, we need a bit more talent at his spot.

 

 

What I like best about Butler is he has tremendous instincts when it comes to jumping routes. I'm not sure if Asante Samuel was on the Pats when Butler was there.  If he was it sees he learned a thing or two from him.



#11 unitaswestand

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

Vaughn should be call "the detective".  Because he is always a couple steps behind the receiver he is covering.   He needs to go. I don't expect him on the team next year.



#12 NewColtsFan

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 02:17 AM

I like both of them.   I hope both are back on the team next year with a contract that works both for the player and the team.

 

Davis is a starter.   Hopefully we get another starter in FA.

 

Then Butler and Vaughn can be 3 and 4.   I don't care which is which, except that I like them both.



#13 oldunclemark

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:48 AM


They
I would feel much more comfortable with Butler starting instead of Vaughn but maybe the coaches see something on film or in practice to justify Vaughn starting.

They both play....and there's not a significant difference between the two......again we pit our own players against each other...

#14 Esquire59

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:51 AM

Vaughn is the worst player on the field in any three phases of the Colts team. So crazy how opposing O's so obviously key on him in passing plays. He can't cover a cough. I, too, don't see how Butler doesn't start over Vaughn.

#15 Tark The Shark

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:19 AM

Butler 4 INTs 1 FF 30 Tackles.

 

Vaughn 1 INT 0 FF 56 Tackles.

 

Stats and the eyeball test prove that Butler is better than Vaughn.

 

Another case of the coaching staff seeing something in the less talented player with someone who has more experience in the system.


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#16 oldunclemark

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:22 AM

Butler 4 INTs 1 FF 30 Tackles.
 
Vaughn 1 INT 0 FF 56 Tackles.
 
Stats and the eyeball test prove that Butler is better than Vaughn.
 
Another case of the coaching staff seeing something in the less talented player with someone who has more experience in the system.
Butler 4 INTs 1 FF 30 Tackles.
 
Vaughn 1 INT 0 FF 56 Tackles.
 
Stats and the eyeball test prove that Butler is better than Vaughn.
 
Another case of the coaching staff seeing something in the less talented player with someone who has more experience in the system.
the
Butler 4 INTs 1 FF 30 Tackles.
 
Vaughn 1 INT 0 FF 56 Tackles.
 
Stats and the eyeball test prove that Butler is better than Vaughn.
 
Another case of the coaching staff seeing something in the less talented player with someone who has more experience in the system.


There is no such thing as the eyeball test. That's like the 'clutch gene' somebody made it up..

#17 Tark The Shark

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:30 AM


There is no such thing as the eyeball test. That's like the 'clutch gene' somebody made it up..

 

Well then whatever you want to call looking at how each players perform, even when stats don't tell the whole story.


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#18 chad72

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:07 AM

Whatever it is, Ryan Grigson sure hoodwinked John Elway by giving him a FB we wont use in Chris Gronkowski to get a serviceable CB like Cassius Vaughn, IMO. Grigson did win on that trade, IMO.



#19 House

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:47 AM

Butler has been a happy suprise IMO. Not saying he's a world beater or anything, but he has given us a few sparks this year. I.E. the pick 6s yesterday.

I don't hate Vaughn but we need an upgrade. He has done his job for us admirably this year, but he is no long term solution.
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#20 TKnight24

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

We wouldn't have this Problem if Mr. Jerruad Powers didn't get injured. I get highly upset everytime he Tweets on Twitter. He always says "Good Win today" or something & I'm just like "Dude, you're not even out there"

Idk, it just upsets me each time

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#21 Gavin

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

Butler and its not even close. what would you rather have? Picks or penalties? Butler has instincts of an actual NFL Corner, Vaughn just has not showed that, He's Jerraud Powers with a bit more speed



#22 braveheartcolt

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:37 PM

[quote name="Esquire59" post="368650" timestamp="1356360715"]Vaughn is the worst player on the field in any three phases of the Colts team. So crazy how opposing O's so obviously key on him in passing plays. He can't cover a cough. I, too, don't see how Butler doesn't start over Vaughn.[/quote

Sorry, that award must go to Jerry Hughes....
"If I make a comment and it is not backed up by factual evidence, take it as my opinion, and my opinion only"....

#23 Gavin

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:41 PM

[quote name="Esquire59" post="368650" timestamp="1356360715"]Vaughn is the worst player on the field in any three phases of the Colts team. So crazy how opposing O's so obviously key on him in passing plays. He can't cover a cough. I, too, don't see how Butler doesn't start over Vaughn.[/quote

Sorry, that award must go to Jerry Hughes....

Your hatred for Jerry Hughes is misplaced and honestly laughable, you blatantly disregard that he has been productive in a new scheme at a young age (24 by the way) for the first time



#24 braveheartcolt

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

Your hatred for Jerry Hughes is misplaced and honestly laughable, you blatantly disregard that he has been productive in a new scheme at a young age (24 by the way) for the first time


Sorry Gavin. I think he is an undisciplined waste of a spot. It is only my opinion, as my sig says. You are welcome to your view as well. I'm disregarding nothing by the way....
"If I make a comment and it is not backed up by factual evidence, take it as my opinion, and my opinion only"....

#25 Gavin

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

Sorry Gavin. I think he is an undisciplined waste of a spot. It is only my opinion, as my sig says. You are welcome to your view as well. I'm disregarding nothing by the way....

Opinion Based on what?



#26 ALuck>RG3

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:06 PM

Butler has been doing raw

#27 GrizzColt

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

[quote name="Gavin" post="369116" timestamp="1356407476"]Opinion Based on what?[/

He was a first round pick. He is expected to be as good as freeney when he was young and to be better than Mathis. do you think he fits that criteria? I don't.

#28 Gavin

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

[quote name="Gavin" post="369116" timestamp="1356407476"]Opinion Based on what?[/

He was a first round pick. He is expected to be as good as freeney when he was young and to be better than Mathis. do you think he fits that criteria? I don't.

you expect that to happen in spot duty? he has actually started 6 games and has 4 sacks this year in those 6 starts, thats pretty good (I expect its not easy to get into the flow of a game if your subbed in and out for 23 of your first 24 games and I dont expect all of those situations were to pass rush), Given a full 16 game season starting I think he will be pretty good if given that chance, he is not a 1 trick pony who can just rush the passer he can actually play the run as well so maybe he will never have a ton of sacks but I think he can give ya 7 to 9 (average) if he was given a full 16 starts in a season plus 60-80 tackles (he has 39 in only 6 starts)



#29 funktacious2

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

They're both decent back up material. Though both seem to have more production than a lot of our guys last year.



#30 braveheartcolt

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:15 AM

Opinion Based on what?


Based on his visibility, effectiveness, value for money, his unruly nature and penalty count, and an overwhelming feeling that he is very very good at turning up to a play when it has finished. I may not notice everything during or after a game, but I have never ever said to myself, "he's played well"........

Perhaps it's just me....
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#31 Gavin

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

Based on his visibility, effectiveness, value for money, his unruly nature and penalty count, and an overwhelming feeling that he is very very good at turning up to a play when it has finished. I may not notice everything during or after a game, but I have never ever said to myself, "he's played well"........ Perhaps it's just me....

His cap hit is 1,691,250,000.00$, Next year (the last year in the deal) it is 1,926,250,000.00$. His effectiveness is 4 sacks and 39 tackles being a backup rotational OLB for the first time in a new scheme in his first 6 games starting. Do I think there were other better options available based on what we needed? yes of course but lets be honest its not like he is being paid 19 million dollars for his production. The upside to Hughes in this scheme is very good in my opinion and it has showed in limited snaps, will he be a Dwight Freeney sack master? No probably not, not alot are. but he obviously can get you sacks and I think he can get you double digits, also he he has 40 tackles in those limited snaps and starts so its not like he is a 1 trick pony, He is also 24 alot of time to grow into the Robert Mathis role. Bill was right on with Hughes in that he has alot of talent even if he passed on a couple other guys. The penalties I agree (7 I think) is a little much 4 of them have been for offsides (5 yard penalty). Given time I expect that will be corrected, 5 of his penalties have been pre snap. Not good but Demarcus Ware has 8 and 7 of his are for offsides(I bet alot of pass rushers draw quite  a bit of those do to wanting to ge a good jump on the ball) and a 15 yard horse collar to his credit to. Im not making excuses for the penalties just saying all players get some penalties from time to time especially pass rushers



#32 shevz

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

Besides him not being able to cover or tackle, what's not to like about Vaughn?
The dumb way he cheers of every single play
No matter how bad he is looking in the game if he makes a easy tackle he will get up and cheer like he is the best player in the planet
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#33 DS3

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

Butler> Vaughn



#34 ColtsLegacy

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

His cap hit is 1,691,250,000.00$, Next year (the last year in the deal) it is 1,926,250,000.00$.

Jerry Hughes is costing us nearly 4 billion dollars over the next 2 years? I think we may have over paid.

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#35 Gavin

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:17 PM

Jerry Hughes is costing us nearly 4 billion dollars over the next 2 years? Damn, I think we may have over paid.

Not sure your joking or not



#36 ColtsLegacy

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:22 PM

Not sure your joking or not

Your numbers are in the 1 billions, not 1 millions. So, yes, I am joking about your goof.

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#37 Gavin

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

Your numbers are in the 1 billions, not 1 millions. So, yes, I am joking about your goof.

Math is not my strong suit lol, Its been a while



#38 throwing BBZ

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

Jerry Hughes WAS NOT expected to be Freeney OR Mathis. IMO that is a Total Falsehood.

He was expected to be Jerry Hughes and to be able to develope pass rush skills.
IMO what he did under the last regime counts very little, they were bumbs. Jerry is playing well and there is no reason to think he can`t continue to improve.
Some opinions are less valuable than others, IMO, I bet he is liked by those that oversee his play.

The corners in question are not finished products. Neither are the physical backs we are looking for, but they both have a decent shot of being on the team two years from now and being solid contributors.

#39 lollygagger8

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:44 PM

I like Butler a lot. I think he's great in the nickel and he's got good ball hawking skills.

 

Vaughn couldn't cover a twin size bed with a king size comforter.



#40 JoKeR

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

In nickel, I thought Butler switched to the outside and Vaughn moved to nickel back.






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