Colts Trade for Wentz (details in first post)

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, krunk said:

Ok then they have some synchronicity then. Makes the relationship a lot smoother.

SM was also Brady’s QB coach at the end of his career

[CR91]

 

[krunk]

13 minutes ago, Arodgers12 said:

Hey Krunk What’s the prediction for next year for you guys?

Hard to tell. Depends on the QB. Could be very good with some of the pieces we have and the ones weve yet to draft. Probably around 10-6 or better. Im saying that for now.

[Arodgers12]

23 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

SM was also Brady’s QB coach at the end of his career

There’s a character and a half

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am still kind of shocked we got Wentz. I know people wont agree with this but if Reich can get him playing at his ceiling this was a better trade for the colts then Stafford.

[life long]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am still kind of shocked we got Wentz. I know people wont agree with this but if Reich can get him playing at his ceiling this was a better trade for the colts then Stafford.

He definitely has a chance for more years here in Indy than Stafford would.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

48 minutes ago, life long said:

He definitely has a chance for more years here in Indy than Stafford would.

I think if Wentz ceiling can be reached it’s also higher then Staffords.

[life long]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think if Wentz ceiling can be reached it’s also higher then Staffords.

I agree. I remember when he was being drafted his ceiling was being compared to Andrew Luck. Luck had a higher floor obviously. 

[Sumo63]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think if Wentz ceiling can be reached it’s also higher then Staffords.

That's the big "if" we're all hoping for.  It's also the bold FO move I've been waiting for.  I'm so interested in and optimistic for 2021!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I can’t wait to hear from Ballard, Wentz, and Reich in a few weeks. Reich I bet is so happy. He gets a QB he helped scout and draft. Just in a different way. 

 

Stafford clearly had a low floor. The question with him is can he raise it to get a team to a championship. Yes Carson missed the SB playoffs but he was one of the many reasons they were in position to win it. Going to be fun to see who we pick up in FA. Ballard might be willing to make a big move this year.

[BProland85]

I live in Nashville and these homer Titans radio hosts are in for a rude awakening when Carson ends up getting back on track to where he was with Reich coaching him. Some of them are delusional in thinking the Titans have a better roster than Indy. Some of them also think after this trade by the Colts they should be division winners next year without question. I'm sorry but Tannehill and their horrendous defense simply don't scare me at all.

[TheUnshuffler]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:54 AM, CR91 said:

 

Lol this is awesome, I’d thank you twice if could

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Reich is set to meet the media at 1 pm Thursday. Should be funny since he can’t talk about Wentz.

[coming on strong]

On 2/18/2021 at 12:11 PM, Rackeen305 said:

Dont like it. This reminds me of when the Colts signed Philip Rivers. "Oh RIvers had worked with Coach Frank in the past".

 

So is that a good thing? what was their results in the end, both at Chargers and Colts?

 

Oh and the year Carson and the Eagles made it to the Superbowl, Carson was actually injured. Meaning he didnt even play in the Superbowl nor the playoffs. Just some facts. thats all. Furthermore, Carson has looked like trash including last season.

 

2020: 3-8-1 record | 57% comp | 16 TD | 15 INT | 49.6 QBR (Wentz)

And this is the numbers for Caron Wentz and this fan base erupts with joy over this??

 

2019: 7-9 record | 60.8% comp | 18 TD | 6 INT | 88 QBR (Brissett) 

I feel bad for JB. Should have left the Colts high and dry just like Luck did. Maybe then once they called JB names or condemn him for not being a "Locker room guy" , "Team First" kind guy would be warranted. Because replacing JB with Wentz is asinine. 

Jacoby is a game manager without the colts running game going off and carrying him the colts would be 2 -14 in 2019.  You’re also picking wentz worst year and comparing it to jacoby best year and not included wentz 6 rushing touchdowns which he still had more touchdowns then jacoby in 11 games . When jacoby can be put up over 30 touchdowns to 7 picks then it would be fair . Even in 2019 wentz put up 28 touchdowns to 7 picks carried practice squad wrs to the playoffs. 

[CR91]

 

[coming on strong]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Reich is set to meet the media at 1 pm Thursday. Should be funny since he can’t talk about Wentz.

I think he can if the eagles sign a waiver . 

I heard the eagles or the colts can still technically back out that it’s not official until March 17 . 

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

27 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

I think he can if the eagles sign a waiver . 

I heard the eagles or the colts can still technically back out that it’s not official until March 17 . 

 

They may technically be able to back out but that would be a horrible decision by the side that chose to do it. It would make future trades and deals with other teams difficult because there would be no trust. It would make that GM kinda like Josh McDaniels. And no one wants to be like that weasel!

[coming on strong]

Just now, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

 

They may technically be able to back out but that would be a horrible decision by the side that chose to do it. It would make future trades and deals with other teams difficult because there would be no trust. It make that GM kinda like Josh McDaniels. And no one wants to be like that weasel!

After the McDaniel deal I just want the deal to be official. Eagles can back out anytime 

[PrincetonTiger]

15 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

[csmopar]

17 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

I think he can if the eagles sign a waiver . 

I heard the eagles or the colts can still technically back out that it’s not official until March 17 . 

i highly doubt that happens

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

After the McDaniel deal I just want the deal to be official. Eagles can back out anytime 

If, as some reports suggest, we were the ONLY team to extend an offer (not sure I believe this?) then why would Philly even think about backing out?!?   They’re not going to do better.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

38 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

I think he can if the eagles sign a waiver . 

I heard the eagles or the colts can still technically back out that it’s not official until March 17 . 

I would think if the eagles agree then he can. Guess we will just have to wait and see. Twitter was hillarious with how reporters would ask questions indirectly.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

I think he can if the eagles sign a waiver . 

I heard the eagles or the colts can still technically back out that it’s not official until March 17 . 

 

There's no waiver on this, that I know of. The Eagles can allow other teams to talk to him to facilitate a deal, which they did in this case. They can't allow either side to talk about a deal that isn't official until the league year starts. It's kind of dumb, but it's a hard line for tampering, and there's no exception because per the CBA, the trade window is closed until the league year starts, so deal isn't official until then. That's my understanding.

[BluesGirl]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There's no waiver on this, that I know of. The Eagles can allow other teams to talk to him to facilitate a deal, which they did in this case. They can't allow either side to talk about a deal that isn't official until the league year starts. It's kind of dumb, but it's a hard line for tampering, and there's no exception because per the CBA, the trade window is closed until the league year starts, so deal isn't official until then. That's my understanding.

Is it possible the Eagles can still listen to offers?   Let's say a QB decides to retire in the next week and leave a team in a spot like when Luck left.   Could the Eagles pull out of the deal and listen to more offers?

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, coming on strong said:

After the McDaniel deal I just want the deal to be official. Eagles can back out anytime 

They can but they won't.  Rossman's reputation along with Luries would go down the toilet.  McDaniel's was a personal decision not a team decision.  The Wentz trade is a team decision.  No way they are backing out. 

[NewColtsFan]

23 minutes ago, BluesGirl said:

Is it possible the Eagles can still listen to offers?   Let's say a QB decides to retire in the next week and leave a team in a spot like when Luck left.   Could the Eagles pull out of the deal and listen to more offers?

Please see @RichardPallo’s very good post after yours.   It answers your question perfectly.  

[BluesGirl]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Please see @RichardPallo’s very good post after yours.   It answers your question perfectly.  

I saw that.   Thanks.   

[Fluke_33]

2 hours ago, coming on strong said:

After the McDaniel deal I just want the deal to be official. Eagles can back out anytime 

Where did you hear they can back out?  I thought it was already sent into the league but i have no idea.

 

Edit: I just read the posts that followed that explain it.  Odd situation!

[stitches]

Here's my bold prediction for Wentz. I used to be worried that he's going to be mediocre, but the more I think about it the more I feel like the range of outcomes is relatively polarized. By the very nature of Wentz' game and our supporting roster around him I feel like there is very little middle ground of performance. He is either going to be very good or he's going to continue his downward spiral.

 

I don't see him as an uninspiring game manager. This is simply not who Wentz is, I cannot see him playing Jacoby Brissett type of game. He's just not this type of player. I think we have the main ingredients pass-protection-wise to give him relatively stable pocket to throw from, I am not certain yet, but I feel like(and hope) we will give him enough weapons and Wentz throughout his career has graded incredibly well from clean pocket. We've seen Frank work around his QBs strengths and weaknesses and I have no doubt he will use Wentz' full arsenal of physical ability and if there is somehting Wentz has in abundance it's that. I think Frank and his staff will be able to manage and fix Wentz' lower body mechanics. 

 

Now the question becomes - will he be malleable and responsive to coaching? Will he take the easy crossing routes that were so succesful last year or will he continue being stubborn and waiting for the big play? Will he execute the offense and throw to the receivers he needs to throw to in the context of the offense or freestyle his way into the ultimate demise of his career? If he refuses to listen to his coaches I can absolutely see him being benched again by week 11 and us taking the L on the deal and moving on from him quickly. This IMO will not take long to know whether it's working or not. We will know. And more importantly - Frank and Ballard will know. Just like they knew with Brissett that he's not the answer even though they were paying lip service in the media and hyping him up for most of the year. 

 

I'm mildly optimistic here.

[The Fish]

Riske: The trade for Carson Wentz was a mistake that could cost the Indianapolis Colts in the long run | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-indianapolis-colts-trade-carson-wentz-2021

 

 

PFF guy breaks the situation down as we all did for weeks and decided that Cam Newton or something was the move. Lot's of us decided a week or more ago that that list of options wasn't awesome, but there was discrepancy in the options- this guy doesn't think there is. Then they hit you with a graph and it says "Wentz sucks". 

 

Take it or leave it. I'm closer to leaving it. 

 

 

 

[Arodgers12]

Just now, The Fish said:

Riske: The trade for Carson Wentz was a mistake that could cost the Indianapolis Colts in the long run | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-indianapolis-colts-trade-carson-wentz-2021

 

 

PFF guy breaks the situation down as we all did for weeks and decided that Cam Newton or something was the move. Lot's of us decided a week or more ago that that list of options wasn't awesome, but there was discrepancy in the options- this guy doesn't think there is. Then they hit you with a graph and it says "Wentz sucks". 

 

Take it or leave it. I'm closer to leaving it. 

 

 

 

You guys will be fine. He will have a great season.

[The Fish]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

Here's my bold prediction for Wentz. I used to be worried that he's going to be mediocre, but the more I think about it the more I feel like the range of outcomes is relatively polarized. By the very nature of Wentz' game and our supporting roster around him I feel like there is very little middle ground of performance. He is either going to be very good or he's going to continue his downward spiral.

 

I don't see him as an uninspiring game manager. This is simply not who Wentz is, I cannot see him playing Jacoby Brissett type of game. He's just not this type of player. I think we have the main ingredients pass-protection-wise to give him relatively stable pocket to throw from, I am not certain yet, but I feel like(and hope) we will give him enough weapons and Wentz throughout his career has graded incredibly well from clean pocket. We've seen Frank work around his QBs strengths and weaknesses and I have no doubt he will use Wentz' full arsenal of physical ability and if there is somehting Wentz has in abundance it's that. I think Frank and his staff will be able to manage and fix Wentz' lower body mechanics. 

 

Now the question becomes - will he be malleable and responsive to coaching? Will he take the easy crossing routes that were so succesful last year or will he continue being stubborn and waiting for the big play? Will he execute the offense and throw to the receivers he needs to throw to in the context of the offense or freestyle his way into the ultimate demise of his career? If he refuses to listen to his coaches I can absolutely see him being benched again by week 11 and us taking the L on the deal and moving on from him quickly. This IMO will not take long to know whether it's working or not. We will know. And more importantly - Frank and Ballard will know. Just like they knew with Brissett that he's not the answer even though they were paying lip service in the media and hyping him up for most of the year. 

 

I'm mildly optimistic here.

 

 

Not a bad point, that he's not going to be a middle of the road-er. It'll be a boom or bust proposition based on his game, Reich's scheming, aggressive play calling and the supporting talent around Wentz. He's going to be protected, he's going to get a run game, Frank is going to get him some clean looks to hit open guys. 

It won't be terrible. Will it be awesome? We'll see.

[stitches]

25 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

 

Not a bad point, that he's not going to be a middle of the road-er. It'll be a boom or bust proposition based on his game, Reich's scheming, aggressive play calling and the supporting talent around Wentz. He's going to be protected, he's going to get a run game, Frank is going to get him some clean looks to hit open guys. 

It won't be terrible. Will it be awesome? We'll see.

IMO it's possible to be terrible... but this will only happen if he refuses to execute the offense and throw to the open receivers he has to. (he was doing that last year in Philly - he was refusing to throw some open shallow crossers) If he refuses to throw those in our system, he will struggle and he will be a bust for us IMO. 

[Shive]

Unless big moves are made in FA or the draft, I could see Patmon (provided the staff think he's ready) with a big role in our offense. His size, wingspan, and speed make him an ideal deep threat for a gunslinger like Wentz and while he needed refinement in his route running and some of the technical nuances, I think Wentz gives him value on the roster where a weaker-armed Rivers did not.

[Arodgers12]

If you guys get Aaron Jones then the Colts are a candidate to win the Super Bowl.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Seeing what Wentz did with Jeffrey I think Pittman is going to have a huge year. Patmon will be fun to watch too.

[Thunderbolt]

Why don't we try and draft RB Najee Harris for our 21st pick instead, this would be like a 1 and 2 punch like the Bucs in Jones and Fournette.  But I'm leaning towards drafting an edge like Rousseau as well too.  Many options this offseason...

[Superman]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

Riske: The trade for Carson Wentz was a mistake that could cost the Indianapolis Colts in the long run | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-indianapolis-colts-trade-carson-wentz-2021

 

 

PFF guy breaks the situation down as we all did for weeks and decided that Cam Newton or something was the move. Lot's of us decided a week or more ago that that list of options wasn't awesome, but there was discrepancy in the options- this guy doesn't think there is. Then they hit you with a graph and it says "Wentz sucks". 

 

Take it or leave it. I'm closer to leaving it. 

 

 

That's a good summary of this article. Basically, 'Colts could have had Winston, Fitzpatrick, Mariota, Newton, or Dalton, for less than they're giving up/paying for Wentz, so they overpaid and it will prove to be a mistake.' 

 

And that conclusion is supported by the idea that there's little to no difference between Wentz and those other players. We don't need to spend a lot of time debating the differences between those players, but it's obvious that the Colts are significantly more bullish on Wentz than they would have been on any of those other guys. So am I, personally.

 

So, like you, I'm on the 'leave it' side of this issue.

[CR91]

 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

That's a good summary of this article. Basically, 'Colts could have had Winston, Fitzpatrick, Mariota, Newton, or Dalton, for less than they're giving up/paying for Wentz, so they overpaid and it will prove to be a mistake.' 

 

And that conclusion is supported by the idea that there's little to no difference between Wentz and those other players. We don't need to spend a lot of time debating the differences between those players, but it's obvious that the Colts are significantly more bullish on Wentz than they would have been on any of those other guys. So am I, personally.

 

So, like you, I'm on the 'leave it' side of this issue.

Same. I like PFF generally and I think a lot of their content is very useful, especially descriptively. What I think their biggest problem is - is their failure of imagination in their predictive stuff. They have massive recency bias and they have massive blind spot for changing environments. They run their numbers, which were achieved in a certain situation and assume those numbers will project perfectly in a completely different environment, with completely different coaching and system, completely different roster. This is what happened last year too, BTW. They pronounced us taking Rivers as a huge mistake based on his form dropping off in the last year of play with the Chargers, with horrendous OLine(one of the worst things you can do to an aging immobile QB), with a roster having to make up huge deficits(compounding the bad OLine and Rivers' tendency to try to win every game with no regard to his personal stats), and with questionable offensive coaching. They couldn't even imagine how much different Rivers would look when he has time and doesn't actually have to play hero ball all the time. And this was the easiest  thing to predict. What this Colts roster was built to do and what the coaching staff's tendencies were most suited to was what Rivers in this stage of his career needed the most - protection, quick passing game, a lot of games playing with the lead, solid run game. All he needed to do use his experience and smarts to guide the ship. 

 

I think they are making the same exact mistake again and are taking too much stock in last year. Not that what happened last year can't happen again, but IMO it's not very likely and if he actually listens to Reich and executes the offense, I feel like this is an incredibly high potential move. Which is insane because just 2 years ago they were pronouncing Wentz to be the new superstar of the league. Just 1 year ago they were talking about how he dragged that injured team to the playoffs. And now... he can't play... he's the equivalent of Fitzpatrick and Dalton and Winston and MARIOTA?!?!? Like.... wth are we actually talking about here? Yeah, sure .... if you take last year as Wentz' baseline, I guess you are right, but come on... it doesn't even take that much of imagination to see what the Colts are seeing in Wentz and what they think they can get from him. PFF themselves were seeing the exact same thing just... like... the same time last year! 

 

And this all is coming from someone who still think we probably overpaid for Wentz. But IMO it's asinine thinking taking on Wentz is equivalent to taking on Mariota or Dalton.