Colts work out Jalen Collins

[Jdubu]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

He was serving suspensions that's prolly why he just now can play again 

Maybe but if he was going to be a hot commodity, one would think he would have had suitors lined up for interviews unless his rep is garbage. I’m guessing most GM’s aren’t touching a guy with this baggage and just ignored the temptation. 

 

Others can can chime in here but how many players have been signed to a PS on a team only to be poached to their active roster on another team that week or the following week? I would think it would be a very rare occasion. I could be wrong 

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Doesn’t the team that has the guy on the practice squad basically get first right to elevate him to the active roster in the event that somebody else is trying to sign him to their active roster?  It would seem reasonabke that the team invested in training him would have that first right of refusal. 

 

Nope-

 

“Any player under contract to a Club as a Practice Squad player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club at any time during the League Year, to serve as a player on any Club’s Active or Inactive List, and any Club is completely free to negotiate and sign such a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period, except that such player shall not be permitted to sign a Player Contract with another Club to serve as a Practice Squad player while under contract as a Practice Squad player.”

 

Has to be to the teams 53 man roster (can be inactive), and the player gets automatic pay for a minimum of 3 weeks/games of the contract agreed to, whether he stays or quickly gets waived/cut.

[dw49]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Straight from the CBA:

Changing Teams

A practice squad player can sign to another team’s active roster at any point, but can’t leave for another practice squad unless released from his current team. The only time practice squad players can’t be signed to an active roster is when a team’s next opponent is simply trying to get information from them by signing them prior to a matchup.

Practice squad players are prohibited from signing with the next opponent of their current team any less than five days before the game, or nine days during a bye week.

 

Pretty sure the following is true and I think it's relevant to the questions being asked.

 

Lets say the Colts keep him on the PS for the purpose of getting him into playing shape. Another team in need of CB help says "thank you very much for getting him in playing shape " and puts a claim in on him. I believe this is not necessarily the end of the story. Collins could take that offer to the Colts and the Colts could offer him a better deal . He's pretty much a "free agent " and bottom line is he doesn't "have to" sign with any team.

 

Who knows , it wouldn't surprise me if the Colts and Collins have a deal where the Colts have the right to match any offer he gets. Pretty sure this is the case and I'm thinking there was a player about a year ago that actually elected to stay on his teams practice squad rather than go to a team that claimed him . I believe the team kept him with monetary compensation.

[dw49]

4 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

He's a man to man , physical corner. Doesn't fit. 

 

 

Could be the case.

[w87r]

15 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Pretty sure the following is true and I think it's relevant to the questions being asked.

 

Lets say the Colts keep him on the PS for the purpose of getting him into playing shape. Another team in need of CB help says "thank you very much for getting him in playing shape " and puts a claim in on him. I believe this is not necessarily the end of the story. Collins could take that offer to the Colts and the Colts could offer him a better deal . He's pretty much a "free agent " and bottom line is he doesn't "have to" sign with any team.

 

Who knows , it wouldn't surprise me if the Colts and Collins have a deal where the Colts have the right to match any offer he gets. Pretty sure this is the case and I'm thinking there was a player about a year ago that actually elected to stay on his teams practice squad rather than go to a team that claimed him . I believe the team kept him with monetary compensation.

It was the former IU QB(Nate Sudfeld(sp?), he stayed in Philly when we put a claim in on him.

 

Yes, you are correct. If he gets an active roster offer, he doesn't have to accept it. He is free to though.

Edited November 15, 2018 by w87r
To add name

[Scott Pennock]

20 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

IDK much about him other than he was a high draft pick a few years ago.  Is he any good?  Can he help if he stays legit?  I will defer to CB in whatever he decides.  He did well with Marcus Peters in KC.

He started as a rookie in the Falcons choke job to the Patriots in the SB.....the kid is big, long, strong and fast......WHEN he returns to form we have a legit corner to work with that didn't cost a draft pick!

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

Pretty sure the following is true and I think it's relevant to the questions being asked.

 

Lets say the Colts keep him on the PS for the purpose of getting him into playing shape. Another team in need of CB help says "thank you very much for getting him in playing shape " and puts a claim in on him. I believe this is not necessarily the end of the story. Collins could take that offer to the Colts and the Colts could offer him a better deal . He's pretty much a "free agent " and bottom line is he doesn't "have to" sign with any team.

 

Who knows , it wouldn't surprise me if the Colts and Collins have a deal where the Colts have the right to match any offer he gets. Pretty sure this is the case and I'm thinking there was a player about a year ago that actually elected to stay on his teams practice squad rather than go to a team that claimed him . I believe the team kept him with monetary compensation.

Pierre Desir elected to stay on the Seahawks PS until the right team called - aka the Colts.

[Colts_Fan12]

11 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

He started as a rookie in the Falcons choke job to the Patriots in the SB.....the kid is big, long, strong and fast......WHEN he returns to form we have a legit corner to work with that didn't cost a draft pick!

Hardly cost us any money lol

[WoolMagnet]

17 hours ago, Devildog said:

 

 

Maybe the Illegal Substance wasn't offered with the deal that's why he left. 

Maybe he's waiting for the Broncos to call.

[Jdubu]

I’m very interested to see how this reclamation project of CB’s works out. We are talking about a young man who has been given 4 separate chances to prove he won’t screw up again and I’m sure was told told after the 3rd time, you screw this chance up and there may likely not be another one for you son and yet he screwed it up again. For this guys sake and his future, I sure hope he has honestly gotten his life straight. 

 

He he was a draft pick in 2015, what does that mean for his eligibility for the team who signs him to a nfl contract, not the PS contract? Does it give the team any control over his being an exclusive rights type player or  any type of leverage to the team for signing him and the following year negotiating on a new contract since he hasn’t really had more than 3 accrued seasons in the nfl? I don’t know how all that works if you weren’t the team to draft or get as a FA during the draft. 

 

CB has certainly churned through a ton of players on and off the PS so this kid isn’t guaranteed to even make it through the week let alone be signed to the active roster. I haven’t seen any articles on what type of shape the kid kept up during his time off or what he did to keep his mind in football gear while away. Wondering if he did any organized training with anyone while he was off for the 10 weeks+ or did he sit at home playing xbox? Would hope to get an interview documenting what and how he has “gotten his mind right” while away. 

[MikeCurtis]

I like this move

 

Its a LOW risk (no risk) activity

 

What do we have to lose?

 

We need some immediate help at CB

 

He hits all the measurables

 

He has experience

 

We dont need an ALL Pro to help out a CB

 

The bar IS lower

 

 

He just HAS to grow up........

 

Hopefully he realizes this, and is playing (he might be starting) in a few weeks

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/jalen-collins?id=2552573

 

His draft profile

[throwing BBZ]

Let's face it, we are desperate to add a good all-around CB. What a great time of the season to pluck him out of thin air to get to know him and see what he has. Such potential to open up our maneuverability in FA and the draft.
And for all of you Wilson fans , PFF grade is a stinker 53. Not to say experience can't bring a big long term jump.

 

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Let's face it, we are desperate to add a good all-around CB. What a great time of the season to pluck him out of thin air to get to know him and see what he has. Such potential to open up our maneuverability in FA and the draft.
And for all of you Wilson fans , PFF grade is a stinker 53. Not to say experience can't bring a big long term jump.

 

I've forgotten about Wilson.

 

So through a season and a half there are still issues with his performance.  That's disappointing.

 

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

He just HAS to grow up........

 

Hopefully he realizes this, and is playing (he might be starting) in a few weeks

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/jalen-collins?id=2552573

 

His draft profile

I don't think it's a grow up thing.  It's a substance abuse thing and that is not about maturity.  With multiple failed drug tests in college and now multiple failed drugs tests in the NFL, it's about a life changing decision to get clean.

 

Personally, I don't have a lot of sympathy for for people with substance abuse problems because no matter how it ends, it starts with that persona making a choice.  That being said I do have empathy for them, and once that person has a substance abuse problem it's not just a "buck up" or a grow up solution.  It is a severe challenge that pushes a persons mental and physical capacity well beyond their limits.

 

I wish him well and I hope anyone reading this remembers the best way and sometimes the only way to beat a substance abuse problem is to never engage in the activities that can start one.

[Creekside]

20 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

He's a man to man , physical corner. Doesn't fit. 

 

I tend to agree. Last year, (when he played man coverage) he looked like he was going to be  a solid player. This year he doesn't look good playing in space.

 

Of course, he's young and maybe he'll get better. Hopefully he will.....

[NewEra]

Dude has good size and speed. Now only he can grow the hell up and stop being an *

[krunk]

We got him at a good time to assist with our playoff run.  Anything else is gravy over the top.

[MikeCurtis]

22 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't think it's a grow up thing.  It's a substance abuse thing and that is not about maturity.  With multiple failed drug tests in college and now multiple failed drugs tests in the NFL, it's about a life changing decision to get clean.

 

I respectfully disagree with you Coffee

 

For many people, (not all of course) it actually is a maturity issue.

 

Some of that maturity issue is deciding that you dont want to be around friends that may bring you down. Maturity helps you choose your enviornment as well. Do you go to the Bars til 2 AM, when you are a pro? Do these poor choices, put you in scenarios where drugs are around you?

 

Growing up is a contributing factor

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

Just now, MikeCurtis said:

I respectfully disagree with you Coffee

 

For many people, (not all of course) it actually is a maturity issue.

 

Some of that maturity issue is deciding that you dont want to be around friends that may bring you down. Maturity helps you choose your enviornment as well. Do you go to the Bars til 2 AM, when you are a pro? Do these poor choices, put you in scenarios where drugs are around you?

 

Growing up is a contributing factor

 

 

I agree with all that as the starting point.  But once someone is in the grip of an addiction it, the solution goes well beyond just growing up and being more mature.

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, egg said:

 

I tend to agree. Last year, (when he played man coverage) he looked like he was going to be  a solid player. This year he doesn't look good playing in space.

 

Of course, he's young and maybe he'll get better. Hopefully he will.....

The taller CBs tend to have problems in a pure man to man role

 

As a press, CB where he has help over the top, he may shine.

 

He has been suspended for all of this year. Did you see him in preseason?

 

 

I also just read that he had pot issues in college as well as pros 

 

I truly hope he has his head on straight

[Creekside]

23 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

The taller CBs tend to have problems in a pure man to man role

 

As a press, CB where he has help over the top, he may shine.

 

He has been suspended for all of this year. Did you see him in preseason?

 

 

I also just read that he had pot issues in college as well as pros 

 

I truly hope he has his head on straight

 

Oh, we were talking about Q. Wilson. Sorry for the confusion.

[MikeCurtis]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Oh, we were talking about Q. Wilson. Sorry for the confusion.

Not really.... I was talking about jalen

 

Tall and mush for brains doesnt make you a CB in this defense

 

I really hope Quincy can turn it around....... I also hope that Jalen doesnt fall in the same category

 

Him being a healthy scratch last year because he wasnt practicing well is telling

 

I think his time is nearing the end

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I respectfully disagree with you Coffee

 

For many people, (not all of course) it actually is a maturity issue.

 

Some of that maturity issue is deciding that you dont want to be around friends that may bring you down. Maturity helps you choose your enviornment as well. Do you go to the Bars til 2 AM, when you are a pro? Do these poor choices, put you in scenarios where drugs are around you?

 

Growing up is a contributing factor

 

 

Show me your friends and I'll show you your future. 

 

[Shive]

My wife is a substance abuse counselor/therapist, so I'm pretty sympathetic with people suffering from addictions and substance abuse and willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt that seems to be taking the steps to fight their addiction (Gordon, Noah Spence, etc.).

 

From listening to his first interview, I'm not convinced that he's done much. They asked him a lot of good questions about what he is doing differently, what he learned, etc. He gave extremely vague answers that makes me think he may not have learned anything. I did get the impression though that there was something specific driving his drug use that he wasn't wanting to make public, so there may have been legitimate private issues that are what triggered his use. Hopefully he's got the support here that will help him realize his potental.

[Shepman]

My only question is why are we willing to take a chance on this kid but weren't willing to with Gordon?

[Colts_Fan12]

15 minutes ago, Shepman said:

My only question is why are we willing to take a chance on this kid but weren't willing to with Gordon?

Because gordon cost a draft pick 

[ojsglove]

WOW what happened to everyone saying players with issues like this will be a detriment to our young players?? 

[ojsglove]

I hope he works out. I just hope we don't lose our reputation as a team that does things right, and not bring in players,  just chasing a chance of making the playoffs.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, ojsglove said:

I hope he works out. I just hope we don't lose our reputation as a team that does things right, and not bring in players,  just chasing a chance of making the playoffs.

 

When did the Colts have that reputation? You mean since Ballard and Reich got here?

[Jared Jammer]

I love the idea of adding a young, seemingly-talented player at a position of need. I love that he costs essentially nothing.

That said, he's one more violation away from a two-year suspension.

 

Let's say he performs exceptionally well here, and looks like he could be a core piece of the team, talent-wise and age-wise.

 

How comfortable are you people with investing in a guy who's one violation away from a two-year suspension?

[MikeCurtis]

51 minutes ago, Jared Jammer said:

I love the idea of adding a young, seemingly-talented player at a position of need. I love that he costs essentially nothing.

That said, he's one more violation away from a two-year suspension.

 

Let's say he performs exceptionally well here, and looks like he could be a core piece of the team, talent-wise and age-wise.

 

How comfortable are you people with investing in a guy who's one violation away from a two-year suspension?

I am very comfortable

 

Because....... we are investing nothing  (As you say) ..... No draft pick, No trade, small $ I am sure

 

We need to get through THIS year

 

This guy MAY fill a gaping hole we have at CB at just the right time

 

Gaping is a kind word for what we have at CB today

 

I imagine we will fill the talent coffers in the offseason with more DBs

 

If Jalen keeps his nose clean, and shows something on the field, he can compete with the new folks, next year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I am very comfortable

 

Because....... we are investing nothing  (As you say) ..... No draft pick, No trade, small $ I am sure

 

We need to get through THIS year

 

This guy MAY fill a gaping hole we have at CB at just the right time

 

Gaping is a kind word for what we have at CB today

 

I imagine we will fill the talent coffers in the offseason with more DBs

 

If Jalen keeps his nose clean, and shows something on the field, he can compete with the new folks, next year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a soft spot for troubled kids. Mainly because what I've been through and I got my life together so I know it's possible for them too. 

 

If he messes up again it will be on HIM. He will be finished and most likely never in the league again. This is a last chance type of move for him. Would love to see him make it.  It just for us but for him also. 

 

If anyone doesn't know about Chris carter check it out. He was on his way out of the league with drug addiction and just being a flat out knucklehead. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

10 hours ago, ojsglove said:

WOW what happened to everyone saying players with issues like this will be a detriment to our young players?? 

 

Chris Ballard has stocked the locker room full of high character players. But I recall he has also said is he's not against giving players, especially those who are still in the prime of their careers, another opportunity. That's where Brian Decker comes in (as well as evaluation other options we've already had).

 

40 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I have a soft spot for troubled kids. Mainly because what I've been through and I got my life together so I know it's possible for them too. 

 

Let's hope.  Quote from Jalen-

 

"I really don't have a lot of chances and I've learned from my experiences," Collins said Thursday. "Did my time and just ready to get going. I never thought (football) was over, but I knew that the things I've been through kind of hurt my chances and I'm definitely grateful for this opportunity,"

 

Quote

If he messes up again it will be on HIM. He will be finished and most likely never in the league again. This is a last chance type of move for him. Would love to see him make it.  It just for us but for him also. 

 

Agreed, and he knows if he makes another PES mistake (or even just some THC), then after a 2 year ban, his chances to return are infinitesimally small.

 

Quote

If anyone doesn't know about Chris carter check it out. He was on his way out of the league with drug addiction and just being a flat out knucklehead. 

 

Exactly. And...

 

Ballard brought in Marcus Peters (Via GM John Dorsey, using draft capital too) to the Chiefs.  Some excerpts about that from here:

 

"Chris Ballard says everyone involved had to feel good enough about his growth since being dismissed from the Washington Huskies football team. ... “I said, ‘I’m going; I’m going to Oakland,’” Ballard said. “And I went and spent a day and a half with him, his parents, met his family, and we got very comfortable with the situation and I came back and said, ‘John (Dorsey), we’ll be fine. Marcus is a good guy.’”

 

Between Ballard and Brian Decker (who Ballard has said player(s) must pass his character evaluation before they are signed), I feel they don't believe he will be a negative influence in the locker room.  It's Collins last real shot to use his talents to make it in the NFL.  Can he resist juicing and just develop his own talents?

 

Unfortunately for him, He will be tested very often.  He can't even smoke weed with the other team mates (that have never failed a drug test previously) for pain relief.  He has a very narrow path.  I hope he can walk it.

 

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2017/04/10/chris-ballard-marcus-peters-chiefs-nfl-draft-process/

[braveheartcolt]

14 hours ago, Shepman said:

My only question is why are we willing to take a chance on this kid but weren't willing to with Gordon?

Because Gordon is a rubbish Corner Back....???

[ColtsBlueFL]

15 hours ago, Shepman said:

My only question is why are we willing to take a chance on this kid but weren't willing to with Gordon?

 

49'ers GM John Lynch sums it up-

 

"He’s a guy that our coaching staff had had history with," Lynch said. "They were with him in Cleveland, so they knew the player very well, but obviously an unbelievable talent, obviously had a lot of issues. You try to weigh that, and you kind of have to say ‘Okay, what’s it worth,’ number one. Number two, we’ve got a really good thing in our building in terms of the guys and the type of guys we’ve got in here, and do you want to mess with that? So, I think in that situation, like any situation, if there’s a chance to improve your team, you always look into it. But in certain situations, particularly when you have knowledge of a player, you sit back and you weigh it. Sometimes it’s intriguing, but then sometimes, particularly when you have knowledge of someone, the more you look into it, you know what? We’re going to stay away from that."

As of now does not sound like there is any off field issue to prevent another team from signing Josh Gordon. Browns reached a point where they could no longer trust the troubled WR, I'm told.
    — Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) September 15, 2018

Peter King:

“I was not high on it at all,” he said. “The history of Josh Gordon is beyond riddled with off-field issues, substance abuse, consistently letting the team down that drafted him and continually, time after time showed faith in him and brought him back – I thought it was a bad trade quite honestly. The Patriots might get something good out of him, and if they don’t get anything good out of him then it is almost nothing ventured nothing gained. The Patriots are a proud franchise, and I realize what I am saying is a little bit of idealistic crapola, but the Patriots should not be in business with Josh Gordon. He is not worthy of this franchise.”

OTOH,  if any team or any people could make it work, it would likely be Belichick and Brady, IMHO.

 

Coaches move around in this league.  They know each other, and they will call each other.  They are not always trying to 'con' others.  They will often honestly discuss players and issues. Pat Kirwan mentions on his radio show how he did so many times when employed by NFL team(s).  He still has good relations with coaches/GM's still working in the NFL.

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

49'ers GM John Lynch sums it up-

 

"He’s a guy that our coaching staff had had history with," Lynch said. "They were with him in Cleveland, so they knew the player very well, but obviously an unbelievable talent, obviously had a lot of issues. You try to weigh that, and you kind of have to say ‘Okay, what’s it worth,’ number one. Number two, we’ve got a really good thing in our building in terms of the guys and the type of guys we’ve got in here, and do you want to mess with that? So, I think in that situation, like any situation, if there’s a chance to improve your team, you always look into it. But in certain situations, particularly when you have knowledge of a player, you sit back and you weigh it. Sometimes it’s intriguing, but then sometimes, particularly when you have knowledge of someone, the more you look into it, you know what? We’re going to stay away from that."

As of now does not sound like there is any off field issue to prevent another team from signing Josh Gordon. Browns reached a point where they could no longer trust the troubled WR, I'm told.
    — Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) September 15, 2018

Peter King:

“I was not high on it at all,” he said. “The history of Josh Gordon is beyond riddled with off-field issues, substance abuse, consistently letting the team down that drafted him and continually, time after time showed faith in him and brought him back – I thought it was a bad trade quite honestly. The Patriots might get something good out of him, and if they don’t get anything good out of him then it is almost nothing ventured nothing gained. The Patriots are a proud franchise, and I realize what I am saying is a little bit of idealistic crapola, but the Patriots should not be in business with Josh Gordon. He is not worthy of this franchise.”

OTOH,  if any team or any people could make it work, it would likely be Belichick and Brady, IMHO.

 

Coaches move around in this league.  They know each other, and they will call each other.  They are not always trying to 'con' others.  They will often honestly discuss players and issues. Pat Kirwan mentions on his radio show how he did so many times when employed by NFL team(s).  He still has good relations with coaches/GM's still working in the NFL.

gordon was worth the risk for us.  he would have only cost a 6th round pick if he didnt pan out

 

there is considerable value just in keeping him away from NE too

 

i have always said he is not a locker room cancer either, listen to his team mates... they like him 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Just now, aaron11 said:

gordon was worth the risk for us.  he would have only cost a 6th round pick if he didnt pan out

 

there is considerable value just in keeping him away from NE too

 

I guess Ballard (with all of his scouts reports, pro player information, and phone calls) and certainly John Lynch doesn't feel as you do, or he would be on either Colts or 49'ers roster now.  Because I listen to Mark Dominik, Phil Savage, and Bill Polian (All ex NFL team GM's) on NFL radio (satellite) and they all mention how they were always on the phone talking to each other (other GM's) discussing players, their character, potential trade deal specifics, and sometimes even just tossing out casual inquiries IE: "Say, do you ever see a time you might want to part with (player x) ?"  They all do it, it is their job. 

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I guess Ballard (with all of his scouts reports, pro player information, and phone calls) and certainly John Lynch doesn't feel as you do, or he would be on either Colts or 49'ers roster now.  Because I listen to Mark Dominik, Phil Savage, and Bill Polian (All ex NFL team GM's) on NFL radio (satellite) and they all mention how they were always on the phone talking to each other (other GM's) discussing players, their character, potential trade deal specifics, and sometimes even just tossing out casual inquiries IE: "Say, do you ever see a time you might want to part with (player x) ?"  They all do it, it is their job. 

im not worried about john lynch and the 49ers though.  the colts have a need a WR and gordon would be a perfect compliment to ty 

 

worth the risk for a 6th round pick, and there was a real GM that felt that way too

[ColtsBlueFL]

5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

im not worried about john lynch and the 49ers though.  the colts have a need a WR and gordon would be a perfect compliment to ty 

 

worth the risk for a 6th round pick, and there was a real GM that felt that way too

 

We can agree to disagree, but neither of us has the responsibility for making that decision.  Nor do we have access to the plethora of information concerning him, even those including medical and psychiatric results.

[aaron11]

On 11/17/2018 at 9:31 PM, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

We can agree to disagree, but neither of us has the responsibility for making that decision.  Nor do we have access to the plethora of information concerning him, even those including medical and psychiatric results.

fair enough.  when i see people bringing up locker room concerns i take it literally.  josh gordon has never been a bad guy in the locker room, and his team mates on both teams seem to like him 

 

coaches and owners might feel differently about his decisions, but thats outside of the locker room and team chemistry building.  i just think if we had given up a 6th round pick and he didnt pan out it wouldnt have been a big deal