Allen / Dorsett trades - mid season retrospective

[rockywoj]

When both of these trades occurred, there were many, myself included, that feared both of these disappointing underachievers would thrive with the Patriots, thus making us look dumb for trading them.

 

Well, midway through the season, Allen has only ONE catch and Dorsett has only SIX catches and one run. Meanwhille, Brissett is currently a key starter and considering the shotgun circumstances of his being thrust into a starting role, he’s giving the team a legitimate chance to win and showing quite well, despite his growing farts. 

 

I’d say that based on contributions so far, Ballard fleeced the Patriots, not just once, but twice!  Here’s hoping that a year from now, things still look as one-sided in the Colts’ favor. 

[#12.]

Of course he used New England's 4th on Banner who didn't make it out of camp, so nothing was gained.  In fact, we're currently getting next-to-nothing from our top 4 draft picks.

[Derakynn]

7 minutes ago, #12. said:

Of course he used New England's 4th on Banner who didn't make it out of camp, so nothing was gained.  In fact, we're currently getting next-to-nothing from our top 4 draft picks.

We got out of Allen's contract at the very least. 

[crazycolt1]

13 minutes ago, #12. said:

Of course he used New England's 4th on Banner who didn't make it out of camp, so nothing was gained.  In fact, we're currently getting next-to-nothing from our top 4 draft picks.

You need to look at the bigger picture instead of finding any negative thing you can think of.

[ColtsBlitz]

35 minutes ago, #12. said:

Of course he used New England's 4th on Banner who didn't make it out of camp, so nothing was gained.  In fact, we're currently getting next-to-nothing from our top 4 draft picks.

In the grand scheme of things, we have 3 young players on defense that all have potential (especially the DBs) to come out next year and show us something. Remember who we have on staff. Things should be much more manageable next year. 

[#12.]

6 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

In the grand scheme of things, we have 3 young players on defense that all have potential (especially the DBs) to come out next year and show us something. Remember who we have on staff. Things should be much more manageable next year. 

Hopefully.

[MacDee1975]

51 minutes ago, #12. said:

Of course he used New England's 4th on Banner who didn't make it out of camp, so nothing was gained.  In fact, we're currently getting next-to-nothing from our top 4 draft picks.

 

Not because they don't belong in the NFL.

[lollygagger8]

I'll admit that at first when Ballard traded Dorsett for Brissett I was like: 

 

 

Then after a few weeks my thoughts about what Ballard had just pulled off, I was like: 

[ProblChld32]

We clearly won on the Dorsett Trade

[IinD]

Definitely won these trades. Got out from Allen's contract and got rid of an underachieving Dorsett.

 

One of our few victories this year.

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

When both of these trades occurred, there were many, myself included, that feared both of these disappointing underachievers would thrive with the Patriots, thus making us look dumb for trading them.

 

Well, midway through the season, Allen has only ONE catch and Dorsett has only SIX catches and one run. Meanwhille, Brissett is currently a key starter and considering the shotgun circumstances of his being thrust into a starting role, he’s giving the team a legitimate chance to win and showing quite well, despite his growing farts. 

 

I’d say that based on contributions so far, Ballard fleeced the Patriots, not just once, but twice!  Here’s hoping that a year from now, things still look as one-sided in the Colts’ favor. 

How did we fleece the pats?  The traded their 3rd string QB who could have been cut that day any ways before the trade was made.  Plus they got a WR for literally nothing.  A QB that was not going to play at all.  Allen was a trade for a 4th and the Pats got a suitable TE and we got a mid round pick.  Again no fleece here either, as Allen has not produced to much but yet the pick is on Cleveland right now (Banner).

[Dingus McGirt]

In the short term, the trade worked out for Colts.  I can see the Pats trading both Dorsett and Allen for multiple draft picks in the coming off-season.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

Of course he used New England's 4th on Banner who didn't make it out of camp, so nothing was gained.  In fact, we're currently getting next-to-nothing from our top 4 draft picks.

 

Hooker, even though he's been injured for several weeks is still top 5 in NFL in interceptions.  I'm not really sure what's going on with Wilson, and he has been disappointing so far for sure.  Basham got his first sack a couple of weeks ago.  He hasn't been great, but he does seem like he has made some improvements along the way.  He came from a small school and was a raw talent, and I think most would agree he was a 'project pick' with no real expectations to shine as a rookie.  It is way too early to compare him to Mathis, but Mathis (also from a small school) did not exactly set the world on fire in his rookie year. I think it's too early to write off either Wilson or Basham.  Banner was a disappointment for sure, but I imagine he'll stick around the NFL for a few years at least.

 

21 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

I'll admit that at first when Ballard traded Dorsett for Brissett is was like: 

 

 

Then after a few weeks my thoughts about what Ballard had just pulled off, I was like: 

 

If Andrew comes back 100%, we may have really won the Brissett trade.  So many teams need QBs right now, and the draft has some solid QB talent.  If we wind up with a top 5 pick, I imagine we can trade back to a team wanting a QB and garner multiple other early picks and if we are sure Andrew's going to be OK we could likely trade Brissett for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.  If Andrew isn't healthy, I still think with a better team around him that Brissett could serve as a solid starter for several years in this league..

[Dingus McGirt]

Not sure if it means much, but Banner is shown as the starting right tackle on the Brown's depth chart.

[lollygagger8]

17 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

If Andrew comes back 100%, we may have really won the Brissett trade.  So many teams need QBs right now, and the draft has some solid QB talent.  If we wind up with a top 5 pick, I imagine we can trade back to a team wanting a QB and garner multiple other early picks and if we are sure Andrew's going to be OK we could likely trade Brissett for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.  If Andrew isn't healthy, I still think with a better team around him that Brissett could serve as a solid starter for several years in this league..

 

Colts won that trade regardless of Andrew Luck. 

[MacDee1975]

44 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

How did we fleece the pats?  The traded their 3rd string QB who could have been cut that day any ways before the trade was made.  Plus they got a WR for literally nothing.  A QB that was not going to play at all.  Allen was a trade for a 4th and the Pats got a suitable TE and we got a mid round pick.  Again no fleece here either, as Allen has not produced to much but yet the pick is on Cleveland right now (Banner).

 

Pretty simple.  It's about the value of what was brought in compared to the value of what was sent out:

 

A 4th round pick has much more value than 1 catch for 8 yards at the TE position.  That Ballard ended up misusing the pick is a totally separate issue.

 

A QB that has provided an 86.7 qb rating, 2200 yards thrown, 12 total TDs against 5 ints  is of much more value than a WR who has provided 6 catches for 101 yards.  

 

That's how Ballard did in fact fleece NE.  Twice.

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

Pretty simple.  It's about the value of what was brought in compared to the value of what was sent out:

 

A 4th round pick has much more value than 1 catch for 8 yards at the TE position.  That Ballard ended up misusing the pick is a totally separate issue.

 

A QB that has provided an 86.7 qb rating, 2200 yards thrown, 12 total TDs against 5 ints  is of much more value than a WR who has provided 6 catches for 101 yards.  

 

That's how Ballard did in fact fleece NE.  Twice.

This is completely false because you are going on your value that you see now.  A trade when it happens has perceived value.  Allen was a good TE when healthy and could be in their system as well.  A 4th rd pick at the end of the round is not guaranteed to be a starter or to make the roster.  The value of a trade is for when it is not when you can try and justify something down the road.  Again, no one was fleeced.  Fair trade all around for both teams.

[MacDee1975]

16 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

This is completely false because you are going on your value that you see now.  A trade when it happens has perceived value.  Allen was a good TE when healthy and could be in their system as well.  A 4th rd pick at the end of the round is not guaranteed to be a starter or to make the roster.  The value of a trade is for when it is not when you can try and justify something down the road.  Again, no one was fleeced.  Fair trade all around for both teams.

 

We are judging the trade now, not when it was made.  NE got fleeced.  Twice.  For the exact reasons I described.

[DougDew]

We got the better end of both trades, but squandered a good part of it immediately on Banner.

[Malakai432]

I wonder why they were so quick to get rid of Banner?  I thought we heard some positive things about him but then poof........ANDDDDDDDDDDDDD ITS GONE!!!!!

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Malakai432 said:

I wonder why they were so quick to get rid of Banner?  I thought we heard some positive things about him but then poof........ANDDDDDDDDDDDDD ITS GONE!!!!!

At the time, somebody liked Clark better.  

[Trace Pyott]

1 hour ago, Malakai432 said:

I wonder why they were so quick to get rid of Banner?  I thought we heard some positive things about him but then poof........ANDDDDDDDDDDDDD ITS GONE!!!!!

Yah you have a good point!  Does anyone know why they decided to part ways with banner so quickly?

[Douzer]

I think the Colts liked Banner. I think they rolled the dice on him clearing waivers and got burned.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Allen was a good TE when healthy

 

Well apparently, his hands were never healthy, and still aren't.  NE is paying him something like $2.5 Million this year for (drum-roll...) 1 rec, 11 yds, and 1 TD...

 

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Again, no one was fleeced.  Fair trade all around for both teams.

 

If Brissett and Banner become busts while Allen and Dorsett turn into Pro Bowlers for NE, I'll eat my crow, but right now I'd say NE got fleeced.  Twice.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

5 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Colts won that trade regardless of Andrew Luck. 

 

Yes, I know.. why I said 'really won that trade' if Luck comes back healthy is because it'd be like doubling up on our win if we are afforded the opportunity to trade Brissett for an early round draft pick (or 2).

[DaColts85]

4 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

We are judging the trade now, not when it was made.  NE got fleeced.  Twice.  For the exact reasons I described.

Ok so Brady stats are better than Brissetts. Call it for what it is then. They gave up a 3rd string for a possible WR. Not fleeced. TE that has played but not like Gronk for a pick not on our team. Not fleeced. Please help me understand then?

[DaColts85]

2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Well apparently, his hands were never healthy, and still aren't.  NE is paying him something like $2.5 Million this year for (drum-roll...) 1 rec, 11 yds, and 1 TD...

 

 

If Brissett and Banner become busts while Allen and Dorsett turn into Pro Bowlers for NE, I'll eat my crow, but right now I'd say NE got fleeced.  Twice.

Since you want to chime in how is the draft pick doing on our team? Oh he’s not on our team?... not fleeced. Not worried about your judgment of a player to help my consideration either. Brady is doing just fine minus JB so us trading for him doesn’t consider a fleece for that. 

[ponyboy]

No mention in this thread that it was actually Allen AND our 6th (a mid 6th) for an end of 4th pick.  Basically Allen for trading up about 50 spots to #137ish.

[WoolMagnet]

I look at it this way:

we got, what looks like, a good backup QB that may develop into more.  A good backup at a great price.  We didnt give up any draft picks, rather a player that wasnt seeing the field and didnt fit into future plans.  Something for nothing in some ways.  The fact that we needed him to start is immaterial in my eyes. It was a good trade if Andrew was healthy and playing. If Andrew comes back, we are good at QB for a while.  And it really cost us NOTHING if you think about it.  If Andrew struggles getting back next year, it will look genius.

  I wasnt as excited about the Allen trade.  I think we're missing his blocking ability.  But after signing Doyle to big $, i think the organization wanted to dump Allen's sizeable contract. I dont think they saw value with Allens expected production, and that much $ in two TEs didnt nake sense i guess.   We got a 4th and dumped some cap $. I see this trade as a push.  I would have felt the same if he stayed or went.  I think he could have helped us this year.

  I dont care who got fleeced or the "better deal", rather if it was good for us.  The brissett/dorsett was a resounding YES, the Allen deal a push.  Was it worth saving $2.5 million?  I could argue either way.  Push.

[WoolMagnet]

44 minutes ago, ponyboy said:

No mention in this thread that it was actually Allen AND our 6th (a mid 6th) for an end of 4th pick.  Basically Allen for trading up about 50 spots to #137ish.

Good point.

i guess you have to judge by money saved vs lost production (from Allen)

[BR-549]

@lollygagger8

 

I stole this GIF from you and I wanted you to know that ....

I randomly text it to my wife... 

 

[lollygagger8]

13 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

@lollygagger8

 

I stole this GIF from you and I wanted you to know that ....

I randomly text it to my wife... 

 

 

Hahahha that's awesome! 

 

That gif works well in so many different situations.

[Myles]

I don't think the Pats got "fleeced".   I think the trade worked out great for the Colts as we needed Brissett.   The Pats traded a player who was not going to see the field much in NE for a WR they thought had potential. 

[Defjamz26]

Ballard made a great trade but the Pats didn’t get fleeced. They didn’t give up much for the two players. They got more fleeced by the Panthers with Ealy.

[BR-549]

26 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Hahahha that's awesome! 

 

That gif works well in so many different situations.

Great movie too, although not as good as the book about the same thing, different name.... if you get a chance...

 

 

[lollygagger8]

56 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

Great movie too, although not as good as the book about the same thing, different name.... if you get a chance...

 

 

 

Liver-eating lol 

 

I'll check it out! Thanks boss! 

[dw49]

20 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Not sure if it means much, but Banner is shown as the starting right tackle on the Brown's depth chart.

 

 

According to the Cleveland snap count , last week was Banner's first action. He only had 24 snaps compared with RT Coleman's almost 60 but the site said that he "replaced" Coleman. So could be he now has the RT job.

[TheMarine]

8 hours ago, BR-549 said:

@lollygagger8

 

I stole this GIF from you and I wanted you to know that ....

I randomly text it to my wife... 

 

 

Heres too more you may enjoy

 

https://imgur.com/kaUBcv1

 

https://imgur.com/2bs4lbk

[IndySouthsider]

23 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

I wonder why they were so quick to get rid of Banner?  I thought we heard some positive things about him but then poof........ANDDDDDDDDDDDDD ITS GONE!!!!!

Yes they got caught trying to stash him on practice squad.