Why are the Colts so undisciplined?

[JTrouble]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Did you read the comment I replied to? I'm guessing not.   

I read every comment and I'm not attacking your post Jvan...just stating what actually happened that first year. I am also impressed with what Mcvay has done with the 49'ers (Rams) so far. Bwhahaha I couldn't resist...Bad joke  Yes I agree that in year "2" they looked better under Pags even though I still had my concerns and those concerns weren't all directed at Pags. But that is for another thread   

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Pretty sure the colts looked much different in paganos first year as well,  champ.

Hey if you don't think those teams look better with their new coaches, cool. Not a suprise honestly, you're as dense as the day is long. 

[rock8591]

Talent difference too huge between the 2 teams, I knew it was going to be a blowout before it started.

 

Other than Hankins, there's not a single player on our D that would start on their D.

Bennett-Avril-Clark-Richardson on passing downs? WTH? The rich just keep getting richer.

 

And on offense, not a single onne of our players would start for them, other than TY Hilton, Anthony Castonzo, and Jack Mewhort.

 

Injuries aside of course, I'm talking about the game yesterday.

[colts8718]

3 hours ago, lance_m8 said:

If you mess up you get a pat on the back or the head by Chuck how does that fix anything the first practice after a loss like this should be instilling discipline and teaching them how to do things right not a pat on the back and to try harder next time.

There is and old saying [ I can not tell you the key to success but the key to failure is trying to please  everyone ] 

[COLTS449]

Uhhhh. Dumb and unbelievably bad coaching, soft players, very unintelligent players FOOTBALL WISE, as in low or no football iq, not enough good-great players/superstars. We have to get rid of the coaching staff. Honestly I would've just pagano after 2012 and kept Arians. It's about winning baby. 

 

As I said. New coaching staff first and foremost 

 

We need thug life players with attitude and swag. Cocky. Guys who come straight outta the ghetto who only care about winning when they step on the football field and do anything to win. We need hardcore, hard nose, in your face bad boyz who'd rather kill somebody than to lose, hard hitting, physical beasts who knock the heck outta the ball carrier then flex and taunt them, start fights, taught the fans when they're on the sidelines. Etc. I think y'all get the point. We're lacking guys like Burfict, Talib, J.Jenkins, Suggs,  Sherman, OBJ, Beast Mode, Blunt, Norman, and so on and etc, etc. or even loud mouth white boys like Travis Kelce. We need 4-5 of those kinda dudes to lead this team. I want guys who run their mouth all game long. Wanna knock somebody out, then laugh about it. Showboat and all that. I wanna be the Raiders from back in the day. The dirtiest meanest team on earth. No sissies. Guys who'll play hurt and ball out. But who am I but a non conformist loud mouth, politically UNcorrect, meat head, who just bare knuckle boxed his neighbor in the front yard for fun last week  ? We literally just wanted to see who could whoop who lol.

 

And side note. I knew the world was going all soft and sissified but   I had no clue "ghetto" was a bad word til somebody on here pointed it out a few months back when I said it. its not offensive. Just maybe to this little new wave generation who have no clue about the real world or what it's like to grow up in hard hoods where it's just simple survival daily. I know plenty of dudes who come outta the ghetto. They aren't offended by it one bit. A lot want out. But none I've met/know take offense to the term. Lol. But man I miss the good ole days when it was cool to be tough and fight and all that. Where'd those days go ? Now if you don't say that one golfer that married the kardashian chick ain't a hero you're condemned  ... they're wanting to stop fights in MLB ???? Are you kidding me. I love seeing a good fight in a ball game. I get pumped up on hard hits and fights. We just gotta get tough guys. Draft tough guys. Etc. 

[COLTS449]

Uhhhh. Dumb and unbelievably bad coaching, soft players, very unintelligent players FOOTBALL WISE, as in low or no football iq, not enough good-great players/superstars. We have to get rid of the coaching staff. Honestly I would've just pagano after 2012 and kept Arians. It's about winning baby. 

 

As I said. New coaching staff first and foremost 

 

We need thug life players with attitude and swag. Cocky. Guys who come straight outta the ghetto who only care about winning when they step on the football field and do anything to win. We need hardcore, hard nose, in your face bad boyz who'd rather kill somebody than to lose, hard hitting, physical beasts who knock the heck outta the ball carrier then flex and taunt them, start fights, taught the fans when they're on the sidelines. Etc. I think y'all get the point. We're lacking guys like Burfict, Talib, J.Jenkins, Sherman, OBJ, Beast Mode, etc. 

 

And side note. I knew the world was going all soft and sissified but   I had no clue "ghetto" was a bad word now. its not offensive. I know plenty of dudes who come outta the ghetto. They aren't offended by it. I miss the good ole days when it was cool to be tough. 

[COLTS449]

Lol. Dat gum I can type fast. I started that with 2 something left in the game tonight. I'm proud.  

[gacoop1]

New blood infuse to spark this sorry team headed by clueless Pagano should do it.

[Albaby]

The title of this thread is such an easy question to answer.  The coaching is the reason.

[COLTS449]

24 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

Talent difference too huge between the 2 teams, I knew it was going to be a blowout before it started.

 

Other than Hankins, there's not a single player on our D that would start on their D.

Bennett-Avril-Clark-Richardson on passing downs? WTH? The rich just keep getting richer.

 

And on offense, not a single onne of our players would start for them, other than TY Hilton, Anthony Castonzo, and Jack Mewhort.

 

Injuries aside of course, I'm talking about the game yesterday.

 

Why is that my man ?? I can tell you. Referring to Clark and Richardson. Because the old GM and the staff were too stu_pid to draft a beast RD1 talent like Clark. And for whatever reason Ballard as much as I like him shoulda offered more than Seattle and landed Richardson. That's 2 bad boy types I was talking about. For a 3 and Dorsett we probably coulda had him. If not. Here man take a 2nd and Dorsett. Don't agree ? Why Sheldon is gonna have to be paid. Yeah. So is every player at some point. He's at least just as good as any DT we'd get in R2 next draft right ??? Yep. He's top tier. All pro type. 

[gunnarforcolts]

We need a new head coach and coordinators we need to stop trading with the Browns and getting coaches or players from the Browns it has to end. We have traded so much with the Browns that we now have become the Browns this is a terrible team were heading down the path of 20 years of sucking like the eighties and nineties. With spurts of good football. I remember those times you could basically just get in free to see the colts play  as they were so bad. Really don't want those times to come back.

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, Xander said:

Hey if you don't think those teams look better with their new coaches, cool. Not a suprise honestly, you're as dense as the day is long. 

 

Since you're now comfortable with insulting people you disagree allow me to ask you a question....

 

Your name here...   your handle, seems new to me.     I'm not familiar with your handle.  

 

But it your avatar, your cartoon graphic seems very familiar to me.     It used to be used by a poster that I don't see here anymore.     I'll get the name wrong, but maybe close enough....

 

Mateen Vehtaja?

 

I'm simply asking if this is you with a new public face?     Not a big deal either way, I'm just curious if you're a new poster handing out insults or an older poster firing off insults?

 

By the way...   JVan is one of our better posters.     He demonstrates how silly a post can be by using the posters own words.    He's a sharp guy.   A personal favorite!   

 

 

 

[King Colt]

I am watching the Chiefs playing the Redskins right now and it is mazing how different these two teams look compared to the Colts who after playing 30 minute games last year continue to do it again this year. 4 X 15 = 60 not 30.

[ColtsBlitz]

8 minutes ago, King Colt said:

I am watching the Chiefs playing the Redskins right now and it is mazing how different these two teams look compared to the Colts who after playing 30 minute games last year continue to do it again this year. 4 X 15 = 60 not 30.

Yep. This has been the problem as of late which is why I believe a coaching change is coming sooner than later. 

[King Colt]

Ours is not to reason why but to watch the games and cry.

[dodsworth]

This program has been undisciplined since the Pagano era.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Since you're now comfortable with insulting people you disagree allow me to ask you a question....

 

Your name here...   your handle, seems new to me.     I'm not familiar with your handle.  

 

But it your avatar, your cartoon graphic seems very familiar to me.     It used to be used by a poster that I don't see here anymore.     I'll get the name wrong, but maybe close enough....

 

Mateen Vehtaja?

 

I'm simply asking if this is you with a new public face?     Not a big deal either way, I'm just curious if you're a new poster handing out insults or an older poster firing off insults?

 

By the way...   JVan is one of our better posters.     He demonstrates how silly a post can be by using the posters own words.    He's a sharp guy.   A personal favorite!   

 

 

 

You're such an over dramatic *. 

 

Jvan is a * most of the time that thinks he's slick, but he's just annoying. Much like you. 

[NewColtsFan]

41 minutes ago, Xander said:

You're such an over dramatic *. 

 

Jvan is a * most of the time that thinks he's slick, but he's just annoying. Much like you. 

 

Ok....     it was an easy undramatic question....     a simple yes or no...    if I can mix a sports metaphor, you blew a wide open lay-up...

 

Not sure the answer really mattered,  I was just curious...  

 

You think JVan and I are (bleeps) so I'll say thanks for putting me in such good company.     I'll take the compliment anytime!!         

[bap1331]

7 hours ago, Xander said:

Well one thing has remained the past 6 years. Pagano. Pretty obvious it's the coaching. 

 

Look how the Rams and Bills turned around in ONE offseason when they finally got competent coaches. 

 

I would NEVER count on the Rams and Bills as an example. Dont forget the Bills started out strong 8-0 one season and finished 8-8. I highly doubt they will continue to play well after halfway through the season. As for LA, were not sure yet but we know as long as Jeff Fisher is not the coach, then we will see..

[dw49]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

It's primarily because the team is so young.    We are playing young guys and guys who are new to the program.    It typically takes time to gel.

 

Back around the time of the start of training camp (late July) I happen to hear Bill Polian on ESPN comment on the Colts.

 

In a nutshell he said he loved everything the Colts did in the off season but noted there were so many new guys and young guys that he thought the team would go 8-8 this year.     And that was when the speculation was that Luck might be back by week 3.

 

Ballard is doing a very nice job, but this was never a one year re-build.    The key word is going to be...    patience.

 

 

 

 

I can see why some here are upset with ownership , front office and coaching staff. We drafted a franchise QB with ONE spot in the 2012 draft. Five years later , we have one of the worst rosters in the NFL. The team has looked unprepared many times in the past few years , on field coaching often is bad.This whole scenario is on Grigson , Irsay and Pagano . Spread the blame out as you wish. 

Take a look at Washington's talent compared to ours. They drafted RG111 in the same draft and used 3 first and a second . The fact that they have a better roster than us is incredible considering using 3 1's and a 2 on a total bust.

[jvan1973]

9 hours ago, Xander said:

Hey if you don't think those teams look better with their new coaches, cool. Not a suprise honestly, you're as dense as the day is long. 

Of coarse they look better.    My point is the colts looked better as well when Chuck took over

[lollygagger8]

#1 Coaching

#2 Coaching 

#3 Coaching 

 

Player just got a personal foul, gets clapped for by the coach 

Offensive lineman gets holding call, gets clapped for by the coach

CB gets a interference call, gets clapped for by the coach 

 

[RollerColt]

Talent is a factor here besides other things. When a player is outmatched, they compensate with desperate sloppy play. The holding calls will continue sadly.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

6 hours ago, bap1331 said:

 

I would NEVER count on the Rams and Bills as an example. Dont forget the Bills started out strong 8-0 one season and finished 8-8. I highly doubt they will continue to play well after halfway through the season. As for LA, were not sure yet but we know as long as Jeff Fisher is not the coach, then we will see..

The Rams had probably the worst offense in the league under Fisher. They get a competent coach, and they're now averaging almost the most PPG in the league. The bills went to % with Rex Ryan, they now look like the great defense they did before he took over. 

 

If yall dont think the coaching change helped helped those two teams, idk what to tell ya. 

[throwing BBZ]

15 hours ago, lance_m8 said:

Lucks right arm gets 90% of the credit

 

 Actually his legs were just as important tools in our not very good team beating a bunch of worse teams

during those seasons. That once in 25 year Golden Arm proved to Not be that accurate nor have any special talent with touch.  So .....

[NewEra]

Coaching

[MB-ColtsFan]

12 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

#1 Coaching

#2 Coaching 

#3 Coaching 

 

Player just got a personal foul, gets clapped for by the coach 

Offensive lineman gets holding call, gets clapped for by the coach

CB gets a interference call, gets clapped for by the coach 

 

As I posted in another thread, lolly...how do you know that Pags didn't say something like "What the **** were you thinking about out there??!  Get your head out of your (butt) and get your head into the game!!  (Claps hands) C'mon now...!!!"

 

I don't think that any one of us have the answer, so it's read into on your part.  Can we agree on this?

[Coltsman1788]

It's primarily the coaching.  "60 minutes...don't judge." That in of itself shows that there is very little accountability on this team. Chuck has imposed a losing culture and mentality in Indy. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

below average talent everywhere, coaching can only do so much

[Fluke_33]

12 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

As I posted in another thread, lolly...how do you know that Pags didn't say something like "What the **** were you thinking about out there??!  Get your head out of your (butt) and get your head into the game!!  (Claps hands) C'mon now...!!!"

 

I don't think that any one of us have the answer, so it's read into on your part.  Can we agree on this?

didn't he point to his head when hankins got the penalty.  I don't think he was clapping but i might have missed that when i put my head in my hands in disgust. 

[IinD]

12 hours ago, Xander said:

The Rams had probably the worst offense in the league under Fisher. They get a competent coach, and they're now averaging almost the most PPG in the league. The bills went to % with Rex Ryan, they now look like the great defense they did before he took over. 

 

If yall dont think the coaching change helped helped those two teams, idk what to tell ya. 

Good points for your argument I will say.

 

Also, Pagano to me seems like a Fisher type coach when it comes to offense. You mentioning him got me on that point.

[Moe]

On October 2, 2017 at 6:57 PM, jvan1973 said:

We're 4 games in.    I would put mcvay and mcderrmit into coach of the year candidates just yet

Dear god! You are a troll 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

It's primarily the coaching.  "60 minutes...don't judge." That in of itself shows that there is very little accountability on this team. Chuck has imposed a losing culture and mentality in Indy. 

A losing culture? Chuck has yet to have a losing season so there is no losing culture.

[lollygagger8]

11 hours ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

As I posted in another thread, lolly...how do you know that Pags didn't say something like "What the **** were you thinking about out there??!  Get your head out of your (butt) and get your head into the game!!  (Claps hands) C'mon now...!!!"

 

I don't think that any one of us have the answer, so it's read into on your part.  Can we agree on this?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 10/2/2017 at 4:48 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

So then you're saying Pagano gets all the credit for the great success for 2012,  13,  and 14.

 

If he's to blame when things go wrong then he gets credit when things go well -- right?    

 

 

Ok. I'll give him credit for putting together a decent gameplan for the first half of the Seattle game, but I'll also criticize him completely abandoning it in the 2nd half. We get a lead, he immediately goes to a soft zone defense, Seattle drives the entire distance of the field and scores immediately, and that's pretty much the story of the entire 2nd half.

 

He's done it in the 2nd half of the last 3 games, and it's mind-boggling. We build the D to play man, then as soon as we have a lead, he completely abandons it for Tampa 2, a defense we don't even have the personnel for. It caused us to lose the ARI game, and almost cost us a W vs CLE, and it was the main culprit in the collapse at SEA. Sure, there was some undisciplined play, but that's on him as well.

 

I honestly can't believe we still have people defending this guy. I know that's not necessarily what you're doing here, but there are still some who are.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

A losing culture? Chuck has yet to have a losing season so there is no losing culture.

 

So far this season, after only 4 games, we've been outscored in the 2nd half of games 82-15, and we've only played 1 top 10 offense, and that was back in week 1. That's ALL Pagano. He coaches ok for 1 half, gets satisfied, and blows leads. Also, we're 1-3. If that's not a losing culture, I don't know what is.

[Valpo2004]

On 10/2/2017 at 6:48 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

So then you're saying Pagano gets all the credit for the great success for 2012,  13,  and 14.

 

If he's to blame when things go wrong then he gets credit when things go well -- right?    

 

 

I would argue that it was a combination of things.  But tenured vets on this team kept it competitive from '12 to '14.  Then you have Luck's inury and those votes slowing down and retiring, being replaced by new faces.  Bad drafting wasn't helping either and Pagano has not been up to the task of taking those new faces and turning them into a good team.  

 

Plus you have to admit even in the seasons when the Colts where good, they would sometimes show up to games completely unprepared to play and lose to teams they just should not have lost to.  

 

The biggest problem is if we get rid of Pagano who do we *realistically* replace him with?  Jim Harbaugh is probably not going to come coach here.  I thought Kyle Shannahan was a good prospect but he got the job in San Fransisco.

 

Honestly the best likely coaching prospect to me (and I mentioned this in a thread on the scouting forum) is Todd Bowles.  He's found a way to make the Jets who are purposefully completely devoid of talent a 500 team.  

 

 

[MB-ColtsFan]

16 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

didn't he point to his head when hankins got the penalty.  I don't think he was clapping but i might have missed that when i put my head in my hands in disgust. 

Just looked at the replay, and yes, he was pointing to his head, and even Collingsworth made a point of it saying Chuck was saying "Think out there".  He definitely did not clap in what they showed on TV.

[MB-ColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Ok. I'll give him credit for putting together a decent gameplan for the first half of the Seattle game, but I'll also criticize him completely abandoning it in the 2nd half. We get a lead, he immediately goes to a soft zone defense, Seattle drives the entire distance of the field and scores immediately, and that's pretty much the story of the entire 2nd half.

 

He's done it in the 2nd half of the last 3 games, and it's mind-boggling. We build the D to play man, then as soon as we have a lead, he completely abandons it for Tampa 2, a defense we don't even have the personnel for. It caused us to lose the ARI game, and almost cost us a W vs CLE, and it was the main culprit in the collapse at SEA. Sure, there was some undisciplined play, but that's on him as well.

 

I honestly can't believe we still have people defending this guy. I know that's not necessarily what you're doing here, but there are still some who are.

I'm not so sure it's really defending him more than just trying to be objective.  It's the other extreme group that want to give him zero credit for anything that goes right (like the 1st half).  Does Chuck deserve criticism for this year?  Absolutely, but he also deserves credit for the good play on defense (for which we primarily got him for).

 

I'm just trying to stay realistic.  He's not a terrible coach, he just requires making the necessary changes to get this team to play 60 mins of quality football.  And to even it out; he's not a great coach either.  We have lost a few games, I feel because of his game planning and coaching decisions.

 

The bashing of Chuck is all just so much overboard.  We don't have to have "why don't we fire Chuck?" threads after each game.  It's pretty tiring and getting very petty.  Perhaps we can have more "Who can we replace Chuck with" threads.  At least it would be a departure from the mundane and overdone "why don't we fire Chuck" threads.

Just my .02.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

I'm not so sure it's really defending him more than just trying to be objective.  It's the other extreme group that want to give him zero credit for anything that goes right (like the 1st half).  Does Chuck deserve criticism for this year?  Absolutely, but he also deserves credit for the good play on defense (for which we primarily got him for).

 

I'm just trying to stay realistic.  He's not a terrible coach, he just requires making the necessary changes to get this team to play 60 mins of quality football.  And to even it out; he's not a great coach either.  We have lost a few games, I feel because of his game planning and coaching decisions.

 

The bashing of Chuck is all just so much overboard.  We don't have to have "why don't we fire Chuck?" threads after each game.  It's pretty tiring and getting very petty.  Perhaps we can have more "Who can we replace Chuck with" threads.  At least it would be a departure from the mundane and overdone "why don't we fire Chuck" threads.

Just my .02.

 

I've tried to be objective with Chuck, and I thought with some actual talent and Grigson's departure, he deserved as much. But in reality, it's just more of the same:

 

• • Costly penalties, from veterans & young players alike

• Terrible clock management

• 30 minute gameplan as opposed to 60 minutes

• Blowouts (outscored 82-15 in 2nd halves so far after only 4 games)

• Abandoning things that are working for no reason

 

All of that is on him. Sure the defense has looked better at times, but that doesn't mean much when he gets away from what they do best and switches to a zone for entire 2nd halves of games, allowing teams to effortlessly march down the field one possession after another. As a result, they're 31st in the league for points given up. And the offense looks serviceable, possibly even good in the first half of games, only to go ultra-conservative in the 2nd half and not put any points on the board, and as a result they're ranked 30th in the league.