What's THE problem here?

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

Bottom line, there is no improvement or consistency week to week.  Is that a talent problem, coaching problem,GM problem, owner problem or all of the above?  All this angst and second guessing about individual calls and plays is skirting the answer to that question.  

[deedub75]

We know what the problem is. Irsay hired a first time coach and a first time GM when one them should have had experience doing the job. I saw in the first draft the Grigson didn't know what he was doing. 

[pgt_rob]

Lack of talent on both sides of the ball (O-Line and pretty much everything on the defensive side). That falls on the GM. 

 

Not scheming against the other teams weaknesses and inconsistent play calling. Blame Chuck/Chud/Ted.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Lack of talent on both sides of the ball (O-Line and pretty much everything on the defensive side). That falls on the GM. 

 

Not scheming against the other teams weaknesses and inconsistent play calling. Blame Chuck/Chud/Ted.

No other way to say it better. Sums it up perfectly. 

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, pgt_rob said:

Lack of talent on both sides of the ball (O-Line and pretty much everything on the defensive side). That falls on the GM. 

 

Not scheming against the other teams weaknesses and inconsistent play calling. Blame Chuck/Chud/Ted.

 

Honestly I don't think the defense is that bad.  You can't just line up in man every down and think you are going to totally shut down a team, even if that team is run by a bad QB.

 

I agree with all your points but I think this defense has more parts than we know.  It definitely needs more speed and talent in the front 7 but the scheme is poor and it seems the player development is poor as well.

[MR. Blueblood]

The problem is that the Colts have more success in running the ball to the outside off tackles, but doggedly insist on still trying to cram Gore up the middle more often than not for not nearly the same success.  Gore's longest runs of the game yesterday (and others for that matter) were all on the outside.  Obviously, you have to run some up the middle to try and keep the defense honest, but to consistently run up the middle when you don't have near the same success rate is mind boggling.  That's on Chud.

 

The problem is that the Colts don't have receivers that can consistently catch a ball, outside of Doyle who is pretty solid week in and week out.  T.Y. (as good as he is) drops balls everywhere, Allen (as great as he was against the Jets) couldn't catch a cold yesterday, Dorsett.....well I won't get into that one because if I hear/read one more person use the Reggie Wayne comparison I may just have to murder somebody, lol, and the list goes on and on.  That's on lots of people.  The player's lack of effort at times, Luck's throws being off target some, and coaching all around.

 

The problem is that the Colts don't have anybody that can apply consistent pressure on the QB.  That's what happens when you blow a first round pick on Werner, and rely on an over the hill Mathis and a pretty non-existent Cole to get you there.  That's on Grigson

 

The problem is that the Colts can't take away a team's best weapon.  Osweiller is awful....everybody knew they weren't going to put it in his hands to win the game.  Everybody knew we were going to get a heavy dose of the run game.  And yet possession after possession you saw the Texans run the ball down their throats and Brock would make a decent throw every now and then and boom you're on the wrong side of a 22-17 score.  That's on Coaching and talent (which leads to Grigson)

 

The problem is that Irsay let it be known that mediocrity was going to be acceptable to everybody in that locker room once he extended the contracts of a mediocre coach and a mediocre GM.

 

Unfortunately, I could go on and on about what THE problem(s) are here, these are just some of the few that popped up right away.

[zibby43]

6 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Honestly I don't think the defense is that bad.  You can't just line up in man every down and think you are going to totally shut down a team, even if that team is run by a bad QB.

 

I agree with all your points but I think this defense has more parts than we know.  It definitely needs more speed and talent in the front 7 but the scheme is poor and it seems the player development is poor as well.

 

That defense just got steamrolled for 185 yards on the ground against one of the worst offenses in the league with a QB that posed almost no threat through the air.

 

Yes, the defense is bad.  Zero edge pass rush, mediocre middle rush, and almost no talent whatsoever at the LB position.

[JColts72]

Owner, GM,, Coaching, soft players, no kick A attitude, no d, no o-line, no running game, hands of stone TE/WR's. But we have a great punter/kicker.What a bad lost to one of the worst QB in the league. 

[jameszeigler834]

8 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Owner, GM,, Coaching, soft players, no kick A attitude, no d, no o-line, no running game, hands of stone TE/WR's. But we have a great punter/kicker.What a bad lost to one of the worst QB in the league. 

Agreed Brock is awful and most of the game we made him look like an all pro. awful loss.

[tikyle]

22 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

That defense just got steamrolled for 185 yards on the ground against one of the worst offenses in the league with a QB that posed almost no threat through the air.

 

Yes, the defense is bad.  Zero edge pass rush, mediocre middle rush, and almost no talent whatsoever at the LB position.

 

How many run blitzes did we call?  How many heavy defensive packages did we go with?  How many times did we out man them with eight in the box?  You act like this team wasn't out there with a lot of young guys on defense and a rookie making the defensive play calls.  At some point you have to scheme when you don't have the talent to just line up and out physical a team that was build to run the ball and play good defense.

[tikyle]

2 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Agreed Brock is awful and most of the game we made him look like an all pro. awful loss.

CALM DOWN.

 

Brock was 14-24 with 174 yd and a INT.  He didn't look like an all pro.  He barely resembled a pro.  It was an awful loss though.  Your QB can't have 3 TOs in any game.  Especially one vs a team that has a problem scoring.

[richard pallo]

There has been improvement week to week especially in the OL and with most our younger players and rookies.  Many have worked their way into starting roles this year.  It is hard to achieve consistency when we have to deal with so many injuries.  I am not saying injuries are the sole reason, all teams get them, but our backups are primarily younger players learning on the fly.  The play calling and game plans leave a lot to be desired.  Yesterday was the worst.  That said we are a still a team in transition.  I think another solid draft like this years and a couple of young solid FA additions on defense and we should see marked improvement next year.  Still need to take a real hard look at the entire coaching staff and most likely there will be some changes. There are no current HC's (college) or former HC's that are "realistically" available right now or make sense because they have been away from the game for so long.  That could change in a year though.  The same coaches looking for a second chance, they got fired too, or another unproven coordinator is what's left.   If Jim wants to stick with them another year I can see his reasoning.  None of us are closer to the team than Jim Irsay and none of us knows what he is going to do.  We will know in a month though and that's not far away.

[RollerColt]

The problem is nothing has changed. We were held in belief that 5 years we would address the defense and finally stop the run and "be a monster." We were held in belief that we would protect our investment at the QB level and develop him properly. Well here we are years later. Luck is still being hit over and over again, making poor decisions that cost us games, and the defense is as ferocious as a declawed sopping wet kitten.

 

Brock was not the hero of the Texans, freaking Miller was, just like earlier this season. Our defense completely flat-lines against any significant running back. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Week to week? Dude there hasn't been improvement in YEARS.  This team is no better than it was 4 years ago! it's seriously terrible. 

[21isSuperman]

4 minutes ago, 12to13 said:

Week to week? Dude there hasn't been improvement in YEARS.  This team is no better than it was 4 years ago! it's seriously terrible. 

This team is worse now that it was 2, 3, 4 years ago. 

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

There are no current HC's (college) or former HC's that are "realistically" available right now or make sense because they have been away from the game for so long.  That could change in a year though.  The same coaches looking for a second chance, they got fired too, or another unproven coordinator is what's left.   If Jim wants to stick with them another year I can see his reasoning.  None of us are closer to the team than Jim Irsay and none of us knows what he is going to do.  We will know in a month though and that's not far away.

I don't think you stay with a bad coach because there are no great coaches on the market.  That's poor decision making. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, 21isSuperman said:

This team is worse now that it was 2, 3, 4 years ago. 

Don't you think that's mind boggling? I absolutely can't believe it. It makes me mad just thinking about it.

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

This team is worse now that it was 2, 3, 4 years ago. 

I think that this, simply, is why people want Grigson gone.   The job of a GM is to improve the team year to year.   Grigson has done the opposite. 

[21isSuperman]

1 minute ago, 12to13 said:

Don't you think that's mind boggling? I absolutely can't believe it. It makes me mad just thinking about it.

 

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I think that this, simply, is why people want Grigson gone.   The job of a GM is to improve the team year to year.   Grigson has done the opposite. 

Agreed.  He's let good talent go and brought in lesser talent to replace it.  If he weren't lucky enough to have Luck fall to him, this is a 4 or 5 win roster at best

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

Agreed.  He's let good talent go and brought in lesser talent to replace it.  If he weren't lucky enough to have Luck fall to him, this is a 4 or 5 win roster at best

If luck didn't fall to him, he would have a different job right now. 

[#12.]

2 hours ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

Is that a talent problem, coaching problem,GM problem, owner problem?  

Yes.

[richard pallo]

9 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think you stay with a bad coach because there are no great coaches on the market.  That's poor decision making. 

Think about it.  Is he really a bad coach?  Look at all the coaches in the NFL who will not make the playoffs.  Some well known names out there.  Many you would love to have.  But they are not in the playoffs .  All coaches make dumb decisions and play calls.  It happens every week with some of the coaches you would love to have.  All of these guys coach a game for a living.  They are not scientists or doctors.  They are average guys who played football.  Earned a scholarship, former players now coaching.  There are not too many Marv Levys in the coaching ranks.  All of these coaches are going to make decisions and calls that don't make sense.  They all do it and I scratch my head every time.  Pagano hasn't won a SB yet and neither have most of them.  Pagano would have a job in a week.  Does it make him a great coach, NO.  I guarantee you our next coach will also be making calls that will have us scratching our heads. 

[Myles]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Think about it.  Is he really a bad coach?  Look at all the coaches in the NFL who will not make the playoffs.  Some well known names out there.  Many you would love to have.  But they are not in the playoffs .  All coaches make dumb decisions and play calls.  It happens every week with some of the coaches you would love to have.  All of these guys coach a game for a living.  They are not scientists or doctors.  They are average guys who played football.  Earned a scholarship, former players now coaching.  There are not too many Marv Levys in the coaching ranks.  All of these coaches are going to make decisions and calls that don't make sense.  They all do it and I scratch my head every time.  Pagano hasn't won a SB yet and neither have most of them.  Pagano would have a job in a week.  Does it make him a great coach, NO.  I guarantee you our next coach will also be making calls that will have us scratching our heads. 

From watching his teams play, I feel pretty confident that he is not a good coach.   They play undisciplined football.  I agree he will have a job quickly.   It'll be as a coordinator though.   I think he could be good in that position.  He's not a good head coach. 

Most of the coaches of the teams you describe are missing the playoffs because they don't have a high end QB.  

[runthepost]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Think about it.  Is he really a bad coach?  Look at all the coaches in the NFL who will not make the playoffs.  Some well known names out there.  Many you would love to have.  But they are not in the playoffs .  All coaches make dumb decisions and play calls.  It happens every week with some of the coaches you would love to have.  All of these guys coach a game for a living.  They are not scientists or doctors.  They are average guys who played football.  Earned a scholarship, former players now coaching.  There are not too many Marv Levys in the coaching ranks.  All of these coaches are going to make decisions and calls that don't make sense.  They all do it and I scratch my head every time.  Pagano hasn't won a SB yet and neither have most of them.  Pagano would have a job in a week.  Does it make him a great coach, NO.  I guarantee you our next coach will also be making calls that will have us scratching our heads. 

Read his explanation to the challenge he did. He is not a good coach 

[DougDew]

I think the problem is that the QB will leave his TE one on one with Clowney, and not change the protection or to a play that rolls to the right.

[tikyle]

58 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

This team is worse now that it was 2, 3, 4 years ago. 

 

Is it?  Or is the AFC South just better now?  Remember in those 11-5 seasons we were 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 6-0 vs the AFC South.  It looks like this year we will be 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 3-3 vs the AFC South.

[aaron11]

5 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Is it?  Or is the AFC South just better now?  Remember in those 11-5 seasons we were 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 6-0 vs the AFC South.  It looks like this year we will be 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 3-3 vs the AFC South.

the colts were a lot better when reggie and mathis were playing like pro bowlers

 

 

[smittywerb]

I think the problem is we never had a legit rebuild.  We had a "re-tool" and it's finally catching up.  Signing over-the-hill FA's and consistently picking in the 20s due to playing in a weak division are the causes, and a crap HC.  From the beginning, I think we should've blew it up.  Keep our talent (Luck, Davis, Hilton, etc.) and rebuild from the ground up.  Instead, we patched up a few places and let Luck do the rest.  Now, our division has done what WE were suppose to do and instead, they are the ones playing good defense and running the ball, something we said were going to do but can't.

 

It's time to blow it up again.  If the next GM doesn't blow it up and start rebuilding this team from the bottom, then be prepared to face the same thing.  

 

Get ready Colts fans, this ride might be a long one before we reach the top again.

[Malakai432]

It's definitely all of the above.  It will continue to stay that way most likely with this current regime.  

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

I think the problem is we never had a legit rebuild.  We had a "re-tool" and it's finally catching up.  Signing over-the-hill FA's and consistently picking in the 20s due to playing in a weak division are the causes, and a crap HC.  From the beginning, I think we should've blew it up.  Keep our talent (Luck, Davis, Hilton, etc.) and rebuild from the ground up.  Instead, we patched up a few places and let Luck do the rest.  Now, our division has done what WE were suppose to do and instead, they are the ones playing good defense and running the ball, something we said were going to do but can't.

 

It's time to blow it up again.  If the next GM doesn't blow it up and start rebuilding this team from the bottom, then be prepared to face the same thing.  

 

Get ready Colts fans, this ride might be a long one before we reach the top again.

In hindsight, as bad as the roster was after the Painter year, the Colts wasted a lot of valuable draft picks by selecting only three players with the first pick in each of the first three rounds.  Luck was very expensive in terms of not trading down, but look how expensive Fleener and Allen were.  Two good picks pretty much wasted since neither TE reached their potential.  Could've traded down in rounds 2 and 3 and gotten many more players to fit the switch over in schemes.  Some would have probably had new contracts by now and be very productive for the Colts.

[21isSuperman]

47 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

Is it?  Or is the AFC South just better now?  Remember in those 11-5 seasons we were 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 6-0 vs the AFC South.  It looks like this year we will be 5-5 vs the (rest of the) NFL and 3-3 vs the AFC South.

We're still worse.  We lots good players like Freeman and Dwight Lowery.  2012 and 2013 Reggie Wayne was still solid.  The roster has less talent now than it did before.

[zibby43]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

How many run blitzes did we call?  How many heavy defensive packages did we go with?  How many times did we out man them with eight in the box?  You act like this team wasn't out there with a lot of young guys on defense and a rookie making the defensive play calls.  At some point you have to scheme when you don't have the talent to just line up and out physical a team that was build to run the ball and play good defense.

 

All I said was that the defense wasn't good yesterday.  And then I listed some of the evidence that proved that fact (e.g., giving up nearly 200 yards rushing at home).  

 

You helped me out by listing additional reasons why the defense was bad (young, no talent, etc.).

 

The Colts actually did run blitz quite a bit, and the only time it kind of worked was near the end of the game.  But it was actually Parry making the stop on the play.  Linebacker got blown up in the hole.

[Valpo2004]

Overall big picture our offense is still one of the better ones in the league.  Now it certainly didn't look like it yesterday, and I tend to think because our offense is so passing based we tend to have problems with teams have have good pass rush and good secondaries.  The only way to fix that is to get a better running game.  Gore does pretty well but we got down so early that he didn't get the ball much.  

 

It's defense that needs fixing mostly.  Texans and Titans run games arn't going away any time soon.  

[aReggie7]

The problem with this team has been almost everyone...from Irsay to Grigson/Pagano to the players including Luck.

 

I think the only person who can fix what is wrong with the Colts is Jim Irsay and I don't expect him to do it.

[lollygagger8]

We all know what the problem is. 

 

Irsay needs to admit his mistake and replace them

 

[Valpo2004]

59 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

We're still worse.  We lots good players like Freeman and Dwight Lowery.  2012 and 2013 Reggie Wayne was still solid.  The roster has less talent now than it did before.

 

Also while Fleener wasn't great but he was a better pass catcher then Allen.  More reliable hands, could get open more often.

 

I said at the beginning of the season that I thought taking Allen over him was a mistake.  I think it still is.  

[Dudley Smith]

Was listening to Colin Cowherd today, and he said there are basically six franchises in the NFL that are incompetent when it comes to how they are run. The Colts were one of those named. And Cowherd is a big Luck fan. I know opinions on Cowherd vary, but it is hard to argue with him.

 

The Colts don't really do anything really well. There is nothing our team can hang their hat on and say "this is what we do and this is our identity." We rely on our star quarterback to make plays. When he plays well, we usually win. When he plays even average or less we generally lose. This team has no identity and still, after five years, has a bad offensive line and very below average defense. That was acceptable in 2012 in year 1, not so much now. The coaching, specifically on offense and "head coach" type decisions, has been very sub-par as well, and while that was maybe okay for a new head coach in year 1, it isn't 5 years into the regime.

 

There isn't really ONE problem here. It is a culture problem honestly. And I like Pagano, but it might be time to make a change in the offseason in both coaching and personnel by getting the old guys out of here and really starting to build a foundation. At this point I am ready to take a chance on a hot assistant even if we can't get a Harbaugh to come coach (which the Colts won't). Preferably an assistant with more than 1 year being a coordinator too as was the case with Pagano when we hired him.

 

 

[21isSuperman]

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

 

Also while Fleener wasn't great but he was a better pass catcher then Allen.  More reliable hands, could get open more often.

 

I said at the beginning of the season that I thought taking Allen over him was a mistake.  I think it still is.  

It's a bit of a catch 22 with those two.  If you keep Allen over Fleener, you have a guy who can do more, but isn't on the field as much due to health.  Then people complain that he's no good if he isn't on the field.  If you keep Fleener over Allen, you have a guy who can catch the ball, but is fairly reliable to be available each week.  Then people complain that you kept a guy who gets brought down by arm tackles and can't block.

[PeterBowman]

I will say that there has been improvement overall the last half of the season. Is it perfect? Absolutely not but the sacks have gone way down.

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, 12to13 said:

Week to week? Dude there hasn't been improvement in YEARS.  This team is no better than it was 4 years ago! it's seriously terrible. 

It's actually going in the opposite direction we get worse as Grigson stays