Pagano-Grigson Rift/Pagano to be coaching elsewhere next year [Mega-merge]

[coltsfanatic24]

Grigson is the problem. No coach will be able to make this o-line or defense great because it lacks talent. BB was nothing until he had Brady and a great defense. Grigson drafted a 5'10 WR knowing how bad the defense and o-line was. He's just not a good GM.

[CoachLite]

I don't think Irsay has said it publicly but I think in a way, Pagano is on the Hot seat, If this year bears the same inconsistencies and same performances against the Pats like last year, I believe Pagano is gonna be gone. I think this is his prove it year. And honestly I hope it is. He's a great guy as a person and I'm sure he knows football very well. But I just dont know he has the ingredients to be a successfull head coach.

 

Winning the SB with this coaching staff is like me expecting to win the Indy 500 in my 1972 Dodge Dart.

[aReggie7]

I have no doubt that Pagano is coaching his last season with the Colts.

 

Some are quick to point out the victories under Pagano and the additional step Pagano has coached this team to in each of his first 3 seasons. Don't fool yourself into thinking its all about winning though a lot of games though. We saw last year with Jim Harbaugh in San Francisco. Also, look at the NBA. Mark Jackson was pretty successful as the Warriors head coach and then was fired to be replaced by Steve Kerr this past season. The Warriors did win the championship under Kerr but my point here is that a successful coach was let go and it can certainly happen with Pagano after this season.

 

Where there is smoke there is fire. Irsay and Grigson can say that everything is good between Grigson and Pagano but I don't believe either of them. Assuming these reports of Grigson involving himself into coaching decisions how can Pagano not be *?

 

I blame Pagano the least for poor performances/team weaknesses this team has displayed since he started coaching. I think Grigson's blunders have hurt this team far more. I also suspect Irsay has much more say into roster decisions than is known to us.

 

I also will not be that disappointed if Pagano is replaced. While I find him much more likable than Irsay or Grigson (though that isn't saying much) I am not impressed by how flat his teams have played in some big games. This team has been required to come from behind for victories far too many times along with some lopsided losses against  very good teams.

 

Here are my two main thoughts/questions in the event of Pagano's firing.

 

1) The obvious one...who do you replace him with? Do you go after Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher? Go after a top rated coordinator? A college coach like Nick Saban?

2) No matter who you get to coach you HAVE to upgrade the talent on the defensive side of the ball. I mentioned what Rick Venturi has said about this defense not having any "Ambien" players that worries opposing coaches. No major difference makers outside of Vontae and maybe Mathis depending on how he comes back. Continuing to add adequate players will not be good enough

[BOTT]

One day Irsay is going to regret taking Pagano over Bruce Arians if he don't already. 

 

Colts can have all the offense in the world, but they'll still get down right slaughtered by New England and other good teams as long as they have no defense.

As though it was actually a Pagano vs Arians decision

[BOTT]

I have no doubt that Pagano is coaching his last season with the Colts.

 

Some are quick to point out the victories under Pagano and the additional step Pagano has coached this team to in each of his first 3 seasons. Don't fool yourself into thinking its all about winning though a lot of games though. We saw last year with Jim Harbaugh in San Francisco. Also, look at the NBA. Mark Jackson was pretty successful as the Warriors head coach and then was fired to be replaced by Steve Kerr this past season. The Warriors did win the championship under Kerr but my point here is that a successful coach was let go and it can certainly happen with Pagano after this season.

 

Where there is smoke there is fire. Irsay and Grigson can say that everything is good between Grigson and Pagano but I don't believe either of them. Assuming these reports of Grigson involving himself into coaching decisions how can Pagano not be *?

 

I blame Pagano the least for poor performances/team weaknesses this team has displayed since he started coaching. I think Grigson's blunders have hurt this team far more. I also suspect Irsay has much more say into roster decisions than is known to us.

 

I also will not be that disappointed if Pagano is replaced. While I find him much more likable than Irsay or Grigson (though that isn't saying much) I am not impressed by how flat his teams have played in some big games. This team has been required to come from behind for victories far too many times along with some lopsided losses against  very good teams.

 

Here are my two main thoughts/questions in the event of Pagano's firing.

 

1) The obvious one...who do you replace him with? Do you go after Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher? Go after a top rated coordinator? A college coach like Nick Saban?

2) No matter who you get to coach you HAVE to upgrade the talent on the defensive side of the ball. I mentioned what Rick Venturi has said about this defense not having any "Ambien" players that worries opposing coaches. No major difference makers outside of Vontae and maybe Mathis depending on how he comes back. Continuing to add adequate players will not be good enough

Urban Meyer

Nick Saban

Josh McDaniels

[Synthetic]

As though it was actually a Pagano vs Arians decision

 

 

At this point, Arians is a far better coach than Pagano has been. 

[NewColtsFan]

Irsay met with the press outside the Colts locker-room after the game.

 

Click on the link to read the story......    worth your time.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13650458/jim-irsay-denies-reported-rift-indianapolis-colts-coach-chuck-pagano-gm-ryan-grigson

[DougDew]

At least the roster has churned, showing someone's attempt (likely Grigson's) to address problems.

 

Since Luck has been drafted, the offense has been the same, and the struggles have been the same year after year.  No sign of change or understanding the root of the problem.  And I don't for a second believe that it is all related to the oline.

 

Someone on the offense side of the ball needs to be more innovative.  We have both Chud and Pep and, outside of the Philly game last year when they used a unique run blocking scheme with Jack Doyle, I can't think of any game where the offense looks like it installed anything special for the defense that week. 

 

I don't think Pagano is at the root of the Os slow starts.

[coltkingABC]

If Pagano leaves, then it may be good for the team. The team can't win championships right now. Hire Nick Saban, Jon Gruden. They may win a Super Bowl championship than Pagano. 

[BOTT]

At this point, Arians is a far better coach than Pagano has been.

That's irrelevant

[Synthetic]

That's irrelevant

 

 

Just as all your quotes to me are. 

[MTC]

I don't buy it.

 

What is Irsay supposed to say? That Pagano and Grigson are having issues and it's affecting the team? He's trying to keep the image of the horse shoe.

[GoColts8818]

I don't buy it.

 

What is Irsay supposed to say? That Pagano and Grigson are having issues and it's affecting the team? He's trying to keep the image of the horse shoe.

Exactly what's he going to say?  Yep it's true Pagano and Grigson hate each other.  Honestly as much as the Colts have been doing to try to make everyone understand this is a none story tells me this is a story.  If it wasn't a story they would just say it's not true when asked and leave it at that.  Also keep in mind Irsay sat on stage before the Colts Texans game in 2011 and said if healthy Peyton Manning would be the QB of the Colts going forward.  So this wouldn't be the first time Irsay has been less than honest. 

[John Waylon]

Yeah. I definitely think there is some shenanigans going on. Chucks lack of a new deal is highly irregular and awkward at best.

We're showing we want to keep him here by making no effort to actually do so?

Well, ok......

I dunno. These reports don't seem to just be coming out of left field. I'm willing to bet that most of them have legs to run on, at least to some extent.

[CanuckColt]

Well, if there is no rift then they BOTH get canned together.

[RockThatBlue]

http://www.wthr.com/story/30020666/kravitz-colts-should-either-extend-pagano-or-fire-him-now

Thoughts?

[ColtRider]

It's Grigson's fault. Wait, no it's Pagano. I know, that Pep guy. Nah, Manusky. I'm telling ya ...it's Irsay. Yeah, and that dude with a "G". Well could be ...the defense. No, the offense. Both prob-ly. We need a new HC ... Wow, and new GM ... Dunno. Just sick of the Ws & no championship. Whatta we do? ... Hey, mabbe we can git Bellechek ... Yeah! That's it. Him.

Great God in Heaven to All that's Holy!

[Dark Superman]

That's not going to make our team better. Give him a week and let's see how Pagano game plans for the Jets. I'm curious to see how he respondes after this loss. I want to see some fire and passion from him on Monday night in front of our home crowd.

[ColtRider]

Hey, anyone know if the Colts franchise is for sale?

[DougDew]

I would expect a defensive minded coach to prefer a defensive player over a WR with a first round pick, but there is no story there, IMO.

 

And I would think Pags has input into whether or not Chap would be retained.  Implying that he had no "say" in that seems like media exageration.

[Cribbsfaircatch]

The latter

[DougDew]

Kravitz makes some decent points but doesn't realize that the article has the tone of someone who has been at his job too long.....a tunnel visioned opionator who feels that he actually performs a service beyond shear entertainment.

 

He says that Irsay needs to take some bold action because the media keeps asking questions even though everybody on the record always denies any rift.

 

Hey Bob, instead of blaming Irsay's lack of a contract extention for the continual questions asked by the media, why not blame the media for continually asking the questions in the first place?

 

It seems to me the media can easily stop a media frenzy.  I think that's Jimmy's point, and it trumps Kravitz'

 

[CanuckColt]

That's not going to make our team better. Give him a week and let's see how Pagano game plans for the Jets. I'm curious to see how he respondes after this loss. I want to see some fire and passion from him on Monday night in front of our home crowd.

Pagano has no "fire and passion"...it's just not him...and that filters down to the team.

[esmort]

It's Grigson's fault. Wait, no it's Pagano. I know, that Pep guy. Nah, Manusky. I'm telling ya ...it's Irsay. Yeah, and that dude with a "G". Well could be ...the defense. No, the offense. Both prob-ly. We need a new HC ... Wow, and new GM ... Dunno. Just sick of the Ws & no championship. Whatta we do? ... Hey, mabbe we can git Bellechek ... Yeah! That's it. Him.

Great God in Heaven to All that's Holy!

 

Without knowing the inner workings its hard to put your finger on just one person to blame which is why many are blaming all or different people ... but anyone paying attention should be able to see there are definitely problems within the coaching/management ranks that need to be addressed.

 

Someone need to be held accountable for the same problems we have year in and year out.

[NewColtsFan]

What's happening in Indy is what happened in Dallas last year.

 

Jason Garrett had to win or else and he won.   12-4 last year.   So, Irsay is trying the same approach this year.

 

Where the two scenarios differ is that Dallas was coming off 3 straight 8-8 seasons, IIRC.

 

But Pagano is coming off three straight 11-5 seasons.   Even if you give Arians credit for the first year,  Pagano did very well in years two and three.

 

And yet,  Irsay wants to see more.    Interesting that Grigson's job doesn't appear to be threatened despite his mistakes......

 

I hope things don't spin out of control this year....  but I expect an 11-5 or 12-4 year.

[GoColts8818]

It's Grigson's fault. Wait, no it's Pagano. I know, that Pep guy. Nah, Manusky. I'm telling ya ...it's Irsay. Yeah, and that dude with a "G". Well could be ...the defense. No, the offense. Both prob-ly. We need a new HC ... Wow, and new GM ... Dunno. Just sick of the Ws & no championship. Whatta we do? ... Hey, mabbe we can git Bellechek ... Yeah! That's it. Him.

Great God in Heaven to All that's Holy!

You left out the part where Andrew Luck is now overrated.  I guess it's just a happy accident that the team has won 11 games the last three seasons after being 2-14 and keeps going deeper and deeper into the playoffs. 

[NewColtsFan]

Pagano has no "fire and passion"...it's just not him...and that filters down to the team.

 

I'm sorry your satellite or cable in Canada doesn't pick up Pagano's fire.    It's there to see,  but you never seem to see it.

 

Check with your local cable or satellite provider.....    hopefully,  that does the trick for you.

[John Waylon]

I'm gonna make a cross-sport reference here because the more time goes on the more I think this is what we are looking at.

In 2011 Tony Stewart and his crew chief, Darien Grubb were at a crossroads. Grubb, the leader of the the #14 team Tony drove for, was in a contract year. They had seen some decent success together, but there was a lot of uncertainty surrounding his future with Stewrt-Haas racing after the 2011 season.

That year, the team limped into the chase for the sprint cup. From there they proceeded to do something nothing short of legendary, winning 5 of the last 10 races en route to winning the championship.

When that happened, everyone assumed there was no way Stewart would let Grubb go. But jus a few weeks after the end of the season it was announced that both parties had agreed not to extend his contract. It was a decision they had come I before the chase started, and they had decided to part ways win, lose, or draw at seasons end. And despite the success, they stuck to that.

I honestly think that is likely what we are looking at here. Pagano and Grigson just aren't good working together, and Pagano has been the one chosen to go. But everyone is doing things in the best interest of the team and going through this season trying to win as much as they can before we part ways.

And that just makes sense for us all. Pagano wins a Super Bowl and hits the free agent market just imagine the kind of deal he could get somewhere else. Likewise, we win a Super Bowl, and we can use that to lure whatever big fish it is that Irsay and Grigson have their eyes set on.

It's an uncommon situation for sure, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.

[RockThatBlue]

What's happening in Indy is what happened in Dallas last year.

Jason Garrett had to win or else and he won. 12-4 last year. So, Irsay is trying the same approach this year.

Where the two scenarios differ is that Dallas was coming off 3 straight 8-8 seasons, IIRC.

But Pagano is coming off three straight 11-5 seasons. Even if you give Arians credit for the first year, Pagano did very well in years two and three.

And yet, Irsay wants to see more. Interesting that Grigson's job doesn't appear to be threatened despite his mistakes......

I hope things don't spin out of control this year.... but I expect an 11-5 or 12-4 year.

I'm worried about it becoming a distraction for the team. The players would deny it is a distraction, but these rumors are floating around almost weekly. How couldn't it at the very least be a mild distraction?

[BOTT]

Just as all your quotes to me are.

Do you even follow your own posts? You indicated Irsay had a choice between pagano and Arians....he did not. So pointing out that Arians is a better coach wasn't pertinent to the discussion. Or should I draw pictures for you?

[achcolts]

i want arians back so bad

[JlynRN]

So firing Pagano NOW is the answer to all our problems??  Yea right !!!  :::smh::::  Where do people come up with these ideas at?

[scooter4910]

Always seems to be an excuse why we don't live up to expectations:

- Dungy retires

- Caldwell takes over

- Peyton gets hurt...suck for Luck

- Chuck gets hired but gets diagnosed at the beginning of the season Arians takes the reigns

- Chuck comes back...growing pains

 

Ad-nauseam

 

When exactly are they expected to get their collective @$#& together and actually have a good, drama/disaster free season?

[ColtRider]

Without knowing the inner workings its hard to put your finger on just one person to blame which is why many are blaming all or different people ... but anyone paying attention should be able to see there are definitely problems within the coaching/management ranks that need to be addressed.

 

Someone need to be held accountable for the same problems we have year in and year out.

Look, I understand everyone's concern. But mercy. It's Game1. Contrary to many beliefs here, the sky is NOT falling. This game was lost in Buffalo because our players did not focus on fundamental football. That's it. They could've been coached by Lombardi himself and had the backing of the best GM to ever hold the position (not gonna list for there are many) and still lost the way they played.

Yield a little more slack. If it continues to be a major problem after several weeks, then yeah, maybe call for heads. It's waaaaay to early for that now.

[Coltsman1788]

Pagano has no "fire and passion"...it's just not him...and that filters down to the team.

His Ravens defenses seemed to play with plenty of fire and passion. What happened when he got here?

[Coltsman1788]

Media is really trying to whip this into a firestorm. The Colts players don't need this right now. Its just week one. Let's give them a few weeks to see if they can get it together before grabbing the pitchforks.

[Gavin]

The only thing I want answered right now (and wont get a definitive answer from a credible source) is why did we come out and ran 7 times in our first 33 plays considering we were not even down 17-0 until inside a minute of the 2nd Quarter. Now the answer may be seem more obvious once games are available on Game Plan where I can go back and watch but right now Im confused

[RockThatBlue]

The only thing I want answered right now (and wont get a definitive answer from a credible source) is why did we come out and ran 7 times in our first 33 plays considering we were not even down 17-0 until inside a minute of the 2nd Quarter. Now the answer may be seem more obvious once games are available on Game Plan where I can go back and watch but right now Im confused

I don't get why the colts say we want to run the ball but we are always so quick to basically scrapping it.

[Gavin]

Always seems to be an excuse why we don't live up to expectations:

- Dungy retires

- Caldwell takes over

- Peyton gets hurt...suck for Luck

- Chuck gets hired but gets diagnosed at the beginning of the season Arians takes the reigns

- Chuck comes back...growing pains

 

Ad-nauseam

 

When exactly are they expected to get their collective @$#& together and actually have a good, drama/disaster free season?

"When exactly are they expected to get their collective @$#& together and actually have a good, drama/disaster"

 

Those don't exist, When the human element is involved their will always be some form of drama and room for error...especially in football where a single bounce of a ball can change the course of a teams season or a single injury

[esmort]

Look, I understand everyone's concern. But mercy. It's Game1. Contrary to many beliefs here, the sky is NOT falling. This game was lost in Buffalo because our players did not focus on fundamental football. That's it. They could've been coached by Lombardi himself and had the backing of the best GM to ever hold the position (not gonna list for there are many) and still lost the way they played.

Yield a little more slack. If it continues to be a major problem after several weeks, then yeah, maybe call for heads. It's waaaaay to early for that now.

 

It was more than a lack of player focus! It was poor game planning and worse play calling.  And if it had only been this game, or even if we had actually made this a competitive game than it would not be that big of deal ... but this carries over from previous seasons ... we never (or very rarely) look prepared and are frequently out coached, and it was painfully obvious that was the situation today as well. 

 

I agree they should not be fired today/tomorrow that wouldn't be beneficial ... but if it becomes obvious by week 10-12ish we are going to just squeak into the playoffs (or miss them all together) to likely be one and done ... Let the heads start rolling. 

 

Personally I don't think Pagano and most of or coaching staff have the ability to coach with the "big boys" on a consistent basis.