Pagano-Grigson Rift/Pagano to be coaching elsewhere next year [Mega-merge]

[Bubbz]

Hate to say it guys, Pagano will be the fall guy. Pep Hamilton will be the head coach next year. The only way that is not the case, is if Irsay burns the whole thing down.

 

Please Jim, if you care about this franchise, you will not allow a Grigson/Hamilton administration going in

hamilton will never be the head coach lol come on

[amfootball]

Several sources say Grigson-Pagano rift deals with differing agendas, Grigson focused on development, big picture, Pagano looking to win now

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL)

September 22, 2015

That seems really strange. I don't know one person in FO or management that does not have an owner sticking a gun to his head saying win now. Not that there is not development always going on at some level but to be all in on one side does not make sense especially in year four ...

[Corndog]

Grigs has needed to build an o-line his entire time here and it has somehow gotten worse.  Pagano isn't doing very well himself. I think they both need to go.  

[HoggHannah]

 

Luck an out, asking Pagano if his quarterback is under too much pressure behind a leaky offensive line, Pagano refused to go along.

“He has been dealing with that for three years now,” Pagano said

 

If that's not a shot across Grigson's bow, I don't know what is.

[bababooey]

I'm with Pagano. Grigs needs to realize that we can win titles now and be more aggressive.

The problem is he thinks he really did a bang up job this offseason, keeping us out of cap hell (unlike the Saints) but instead he is turning over every stone for his diamond in the rough and signing guys on the wrong side of 30. I wonder how much effort was exerted and how many stories came about of Duron Carter who probably will never contribute for us. I know you can't predict injuries but to be in week 2 with your 5th and 6th CBs on the field is ridiculous. At least Landon Collins dared Matt Ryan to throw on him last week in his second game ever. We have Vontae getting called for holds and also running towards a guy Cole is trying to cover and leaving Marshall open on 3rd and long. I'm just so frustrated.

 

We are the Saints and Giants, teams that just aren't good because no talented personnel.

[ColtsFan1976]

If Grigson is looking at development, then why would he bring in Gore and Johnson as well as other veteran players.  Maybe draft better where players are needed and then you can talk development.  Both need to go at seasons end. 

[Happy2BeHere]

Luck has been AWFUL to say the least. Is it his fault entirely? NO...does he have some blame...absolutely.  FIRST off I blame our General Manager for NOT fixing our offensive line...it really to me boils down to that more than anything. Here's something I saw on Luck's stats for the last 3 games.

 

 

GAME       -     Completion %       -     TD      -     INT    -     YDS/ATT      -     QB RATING

2014 AFCCG           36.4                       0               2                  3.8                      23.0

2015 WEEK 1          53.1                       2               2                  5.0                      63.6

2014 WEEK 2          56.8                       1               3                  6.8                      52.8

 

COMBINED AVERAGE

                                48.8                       1             2.33               5.2                      46.5

 

 

Sure you can argue stats don't tell the whole story and I completely agree...but Luck has been awful...it's in part by him...and in part by a poor support cast....a poor coaching staff....all of the above. But mostly I am willing to put the blame on the O-Line. If you looked at the different people Luck has had SINCE he was drafted as they showed last night on MNF it was staggering to see how many RG, RT, C, LG 's he has had change on him over his short career...only the LT position has been steady with Costanzo. It's ridiculous our O-line has been a revolving door and literally almost NOTHING has been solidified well enough to keep the rotation permanent and with players who can do their job. However...Luck has shown some poor decision making and some of his INT's are just poor decisions.

 

I still love the Colts...the Sky is NOT falling...but these are just hard cold facts and just my opinion.

[Surge89]

That's a legitimate difference and something that should have been discussed before the partnership was forged.

 

So, yeah, I can understand frustration but, if it wasn't talked about in advance.......it's on both of them

 

If it was, but changed, that's something else

 

The challenge is moving forward with what you've got.  Players, coaches, owners, fans.......all of us want to win now.  We're several years into this.  So, building for the future should have been done already

 

I can easily see how it had changed.  Most likely Pagano was ready to have a regular HC position gut then fell ill.  Which led to more of a team approach to running the team with Grigs and Arians.  Now Pagano comes back and Grigs doesn't want to get out.  At least that is what makes the most sense to me.

[ColtsFan1976]

I believe Irsay hired someone who has shown not to be a good GM and an assistant coach who is not a  head coach.   Just like Manning, time is moving by quickly.  It just feels like nobody knows what they are doing and it really sucks.  Why can't Irsay hire a really good GM and a head coach as good as Belichick.  God I hate the Patriots.   Why, why, why!!!

[Colts_Fan12]

Hate to say it guys, Pagano will be the fall guy. Pep Hamilton will be the head coach next year. The only way that is not the case, is if Irsay burns the whole thing down.

Please Jim, if you care about this franchise, you will not allow a Grigson/Hamilton administration going into next year.

we would never recover from those two * running the franchise into the ground

[krunk]

I don't buy that story.  All Grigson ever says is win now and it's obvious he's not just focusing on the future as the team is always filled with more FA than rookies on both sides of the ball.  I believe you would see opposite if he was just focused on the long term.  Unless Pagano is having an issue with some of these guys Grigs is keeping around for development. Guys like Price who will never be anything.

[weslo1812]

Pagano looked about as ticked off as I've ever seen him in his post game press conference.

[F.T. Walton]

The comments included some pretty effective slams of the front office for the Participation Banner they hung.

[Patagonia Chris]

The comments included some pretty effective slams of the front office for the Participation Banner they hung.

 

That's about par for the course on Deadspin. They rip the Colts for that pretty regularly, and rightfully so.

[F.T. Walton]

That's about par for the course on Deadspin. They rip the Colts for that pretty regularly, and rightfully so.

I prefer to view it as ripping Irsay rather than our beloved Colts.

[deedub75]

Lol I feel like it is the opposite. But what do I know?

I agree.  It has been the opposite from the beginning.

[deedub75]

We really needed an experienced GM to rebuild this team, not an experiment in GM.  

[HoggHannah]

The offense is currently not set up to play to Lucks strengths, IMHO.  There is only one person to blame for that. 

[GoColts8818]

If that's not a shot across Grigson's bow, I don't know what is.

on a side note if anyone thinks Pagano lacks fire they need to watch that post game presser. He was clearly ticked off as he should have been and close to a diddly poo moment.

[will426]

I'm with Pagano. Grigs needs to realize that we can win titles now and be more aggressive.

grigson has no impact on the game as pagano does..pagano doesn't play the best players..pagano lets a dumb butt OC draw up plays..Pagano wants to be friends with everyone and then the boss when they fail. He has more power over in game situations and he doesn't do anything what so ever can't adjust can't game plan..Manusky is the only one I think should stay cuz he's doing well with the players he has despite injuries and grigson maybe only cuz this years solid def draft and his one year he already has left

[will426]

on a side note if anyone thinks Pagano lacks fire they need to watch that post game presser. He was clearly ticked off as he should have been and close to a diddly poo moment.

and how is he during the actual game "oh it's okay I won't punish you for missing that tackle" he's so damn passive and only chose to speak like this cuz Andrew had one of his worst career games

[NewColtsFan]

Hate to say it guys, Pagano will be the fall guy. Pep Hamilton will be the head coach next year. The only way that is not the case, is if Irsay burns the whole thing down.

 

Please Jim, if you care about this franchise, you will not allow a Grigson/Hamilton administration going into next year. 

 

I believe Pep Hamilton will NOT be employed by the Colts next year.

 

I don't think Ryan Grigson or Jim Irsay can stand before reporters and announce that Pep is the new guy.

 

There is zero credibility if that happens.      Irsay won't have to burn the whole thing to fire Pep.

[aReggie7]

grigson has no impact on the game as pagano does..pagano doesn't play the best players..pagano lets a dumb butt OC draw up plays..Pagano wants to be friends with everyone and then the boss when they fail. He has more power over in game situations and he doesn't do anything what so ever can't adjust can't game plan..Manusky is the only one I think should stay cuz he's doing well with the players he has despite injuries and grigson maybe only cuz this years solid def draft and his one year he already has left

 

Pep's plays might not be on Pagano though....if reports are true that Pep was a Grigson hire.

[BpG]

The more I read, the more I see that Grigson is in "save his own hide" mode.

 

Long term development? Like trading for Richardson? Like taking a WR in the first round? Like Signing Frank Gore and Andre Johnson? Signing an over 30 MLB that the Browns cut?

 

Ryan Grigson is trying to save himself and if Jimmy isn't still hopped up on pain killers he will be able to see right through this charade. 

[NewColtsFan]

Several sources say Grigson-Pagano rift deals with differing agendas, Grigson focused on development, big picture, Pagano looking to win now

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL)

September 22, 2015

 

Dustin....

 

My issue is not with you,  but with Aaron Wilson who tweeted out that the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West.

 

EVERY General Manager focuses on two things.     Winning now and developing for the future.   And every coach focuses on winning now.     That's how it's been since the NFL began.     I don't think Aaron Wilson has revealed anything.

 

And,  as other posters have noted,  didn't Ryan Grigson sign 30-somethings AJ Johnson,  Frank Gore,  Todd Herremanns and Trent Cole?!?     And Lowery is 29, I think.      Those don't sound like development guys to me.    Grigson did that because he's under a mandate from Irsay -- win NOW while Luck's rookie contract is manageable.    That gets harder when Luck's new deal kicks in.

 

Perhaps there's more to this Aaron Wilson story than just his tweet?    But the tweet alone reveals very little.    Every team deals with the same thing.

[Superman]

I don't buy that story.  

 

Neither do I.

[krunk]

Getting a little off topic here I wondering from a play calling and offensive coordination standpoint what exactly Rob Chudzinski brings to the table.  I mean he's the Assistant Head Coach so I know he's helping Pep to design some of these plays and schemes.  Would things honestly be that much different if Pep did get fired and Chud became the OC.  I still have yet to understand what his influence is helping.

[Clem-Dog]

For some reason the media is blowing a pretty common occurrence out of proportion knowing many teams have similar internal power struggles. I expect the Colts to approach each game as professionals with the intent to win, they won't collapse under the bias scrutiny of local and national media coverage. Considering we have many new faces playing vital roles, wouldn't it be fair to suggest that it may take a few games to develop some cohesiveness? This problem trumps any other excuse out there.

[deedub75]

on a side note if anyone thinks Pagano lacks fire they need to watch that post game presser. He was clearly ticked off as he should have been and close to a diddly poo moment.

 

He doesn't lack fire.  I'm not sure he directs that fire to the players.  The media isn't a good place.

[Superman]

He doesn't lack fire.  I'm not sure he directs that fire to the players.  

 

No one here could possibly know whether that's true or not.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

All I read was the title to this thread. But I just read an interview from Grigson like a week ago, where he said he is in win now node. "when you have a quarterback like Andrew you're always in win now mode" he said something like that. And you can tell by how he always signs these old free agents.

[will426]

Pep's plays might not be on Pagano though....if reports are true that Pep was a Grigson hire.

it still is on pagano yes grigson hired him..his play calling must at least be seen by the head coach he's the one on the field with him no grigson..so it makes no sense why he's allowing this guy to make these plays up

[OffensivelyPC]

Wait, wait... So the GM who is signing FA, forcing rookies to start now and not drafting Corner/ILB/OT depth is drafting and thinking about the future? LOL one of the most backwards things I think I've seen in about 10 hours...

 

Btw didn't Grigson himself say the object is to win now before he puts a constraint on his Cap space?

What happened 10 hours ago?

[deedub75]

No one here could possibly know whether that's true or not.

 

He's been called a player's coach.  This is just an assumption on my part but I can see him being more of a pacifist giving ra ra speeches instead of holding players to the fire for their mistakes.  

[The Fish]

If this is the actual cause of the rift, that's a pretty weak excuse. Wouldn't every G.M/Coach have that dynamic? And Grigson being focused on the long term? Yeah, uh hu. He's run the team like it's Madden more than any other G.M to win now. 

I'd be more content with the line of reasoning if I was impressed with Grigson's developmental guys..

[Defjamz26]

I agree. It has been the opposite from the beginning.

Exactly. All Grigson's FA signings scream "We can win now". And he's failed at development. Trading for Richardson was also a win now move.

All Grigson has managed to do is sweep a terrible AFC South division, upset a few good teams, and consistently get embarrassed by top teams. He's off his rocker if he really thinks this is a Super Bowl contender. Especially since the player that made us a contender in the first place (Luck) isn't even playing good.

They both have to go, but I'm starting to think Grigson is trying to throw Pagano under the bus.

[Superman]

He's been called a player's coach.  This is just an assumption on my part but I can see him being more of a pacifist giving ra ra speeches instead of holding players to the fire for their mistakes.  

 

We're all entitled to opinion, feelings and even speculation. I'm just saying that no one knows how Pagano interacts with the players, particularly when the team isn't playing well. I know he's been called a player's coach, but I don't think anyone who has worked with or for him or who has been coached by him has ever called him that. I don't care what Ian Rapaport says on Twitter (or whoever else...)

 

I will say that I don't think it would be productive for him to go slamming Gatorade coolers around in the locker room.

[Superman]

Exactly. All Grigson's FA signings scream "We can win now". And he's failed at development. Trading for Richardson was also a win now move.

All Grigson has managed to do is sweep a terrible AFC South division, upset a few good teams, and consistently get embarrassed by top teams. He's off his rocker if he really thinks this is a Super Bowl contender. Especially since the player that made us a contender in the first place (Luck) isn't even playing good.

They both have to go, but I'm starting to think Grigson is trying to throw Pagano under the bus.

 

Meh; personnel could be better for sure, and there have been mistakes and missed opportunities over the years on that front.

 

But it's hard for me to even think about personnel issues when your best players are playing poorly and costing the team wins. Take away half of Luck's turnovers, Gore's fumble and AV's miss, and we likely win. Doesn't mean all the problems are solved, but it's easier to say 'we have to clean up execution and play calling' when you're 2-0 or 1-1. When you're 0-2 and look ugly in both losses, then everyone thinks the whole thing is a dumpster fire and needs to be allowed to burn completely. I'm not there yet. Better execution should be the primary focus right now.

[K-148]

Why this report can't be true? Draft Dorsett for future, sign Gore&Johnson (Miami) for Pagano. Draft Parry&Anderson for future, sign Arthur Jones (Baltimore) for Pagano. Pagano is defensive minded coach... just like Buddy Ryan. Who is his Gilbride?

[will426]

Getting a little off topic here I wondering from a play calling and offensive coordination standpoint what exactly Rob Chudzinski brings to the table. I mean he's the Assistant Head Coach so I know he's helping Pep to design some of these plays and schemes. Would things honestly be that much different if Pep did get fired and Chud became the OC. I still have yet to understand what his influence is helping.

I honestly believe he has nothing to do with the playcalling and from his panthers says he utilized the hell out of the tightend and it doesn't match what pep is doing