Pagano-Grigson Rift/Pagano to be coaching elsewhere next year [Mega-merge]

[COLTS449]

Grigson is a bad GM who just happened to get lucky and get hired by the team holding the number 1 pick in a year when a once in every 10 years type QB was coming out. He was put in a position to succeed. Any GM could have taken us to the playoffs. Grigs has made way too many bad decisions IMO. Certain signings, bad draft picks, and not being aggressive enough. Like for an example. There is no reason in hell that we didn't try to sign Evan Mathis when he got released.

[deedub75]

Why this report can't be true? Draft Dorsett for future, sign Gore&Johnson (Miami) for Pagano. Draft Parry&Anderson for future, sign Arthur Jones (Baltimore) for Pagano. Pagano is defensive minded coach... just like Buddy Ryan. Who is his Gilbride?

 

The problem is that Grigson didn't seem to be drafting for the future initially.  He needed to plant the seeds of an o line that would be rounding into form right now in year 4.  He tried to win now and rebuild.  I'm sure Irsay was pushing him to win now while Luck was on a cheap rookie contract.  

[Superman]

Grigson is a bad GM who just happened to get lucky and get hired by the team holding the number 1 pick in a year when a once in every 10 years type QB was coming out. He was put in a position to succeed. Any GM could have taken us to the playoffs. Grigs has made way too many bad decisions IMO. Certain signings, bad draft picks, and not being aggressive enough. Like for an example. There is no reason in hell that we didn't try to sign Evan Mathis when he got released.

 

Evan Mathis has been below average in Denver. And that's being nice.

[John Waylon]

"As the stomach turns,  these are the days of the Colts implosion".

 

This story continues to gain mass every day, steadily moving towards critical mass. When that time is, and what the endgame is remains to be seen. 

 

But I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of money that it is causing more problems than we see. You know this stuff has to be a distraction in the locker room. The players aren't just turning a blind eye to it. They probably see the storm clouds gathering better than we do. 

[Superman]

"As the stomach turns,  these are the days of the Colts implosion".

 

This story continues to gain mass every day, steadily moving towards critical mass. When that time is, and what the endgame is remains to be seen. 

 

But I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of money that it is causing more problems than we see. You know this stuff has to be a distraction in the locker room. The players aren't just turning a blind eye to it. They probably see the storm clouds gathering better than we do. 

 

Winning cures all ills. I bet we hear something about a 'players only meeting' at some point this week. But I don't think these 'issues' are the issue so far. 

[John Waylon]

Winning cures all ills. I bet we hear something about a 'players only meeting' at some point this week. But I don't think these 'issues' are the issue so far. 

 

Not entirely, no. We've played downright * poorly through two weeks. 

 

But even that has been uncharacteristic. I can't explain it, there's just something flat about this group so far this season. 

[NewEra]

Well his win now mode isn't working either

[Superman]

Not entirely, no. We've played downright * poorly through two weeks. 

 

But even that has been uncharacteristic. I can't explain it, there's just something flat about this group so far this season. 

 

Yeah, it feels different than last year's 0-2. But in three weeks, I believe we'll be 3-2. Then we play New England.... goodness.

[lollygagger8]

Hate to say it guys, Pagano will be the fall guy. Pep Hamilton will be the head coach next year. The only way that is not the case, is if Irsay burns the whole thing down.

 

Please Jim, if you care about this franchise, you will not allow a Grigson/Hamilton administration going into next year. 

 

If Pepe ends up head coach, we are screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwed. 

[lollygagger8]

Wait,

 

 

 

Suck for Chuck? 

[ColtJax]

Evan Mathis may need some seasoning to adjust in Denver, but he's still better than what we have now. How about a new center, like former Raider Wisnewski? He ends up in Jacksonville for pennies on the dollar and is playing well. What do we get for our GM's effort? OT Thomas who barely saw the field, Herrmann who's dreadful; Cherious who was a swinging gate, etc.. We surround Luck with crap and we're surprised that both he and Gore aren't world beaters.

Case in point, just look at Philidelphia. They sign the former #1 pick for QB (Bradford) and a former all everything RB (DeMarco Murray). But just like us they surround then with a horrible OL. SO, what's the results? Bradford looks horrible and Murray has 11 yards in 2 full games. Ya think he misses that Cowboy stout OL he ran behind??

[K-148]

The problem is that Grigson didn't seem to be drafting for the future initially.  He needed to plant the seeds of an o line that would be rounding into form right now in year 4.  He tried to win now and rebuild.  I'm sure Irsay was pushing him to win now while Luck was on a cheap rookie contract.  

AC mod. 2015 is better than AC mod. 2012. Holmes is better than Satele. Herremans is better than McGlynn. Mewhort is better than Winston Justice... Why Luck mod. 2015 is worse than Luck mod. 2012? Where are TEs? Where are passing concepts? Where are packaged plays? Hamilton has decided to run "Four verticals" all the time?

[DougDew]

Not entirely, no. We've played downright * poorly through two weeks. 

 

But even that has been uncharacteristic. I can't explain it, there's just something flat about this group so far this season.

The offense has sputtered since Wayne went down. Nobody has had time to replace him.

[DougDew]

AC mod. 2015 is better than AC mod. 2012. Holmes is better than Satele. Herremans is better than McGlynn. Mewhort is better than Winston Justice... Why Luck mod. 2015 is worse than Luck mod. 2012?

Because Pep and Luck can't run Arians' offense without Arians. They need something different.

[bleevit]

Grigson needs to spend his considerable talent in locating and drafting some top flight help in the O-line.  Our starters are perfectly capable of playing NFL football at some level but Superbowl?  Doesn't appear so.  Pep is not clever enough to cover this flaw even with good Andrew.  With evil Andrew they'll be fortunate to win 6 games.

[NewEra]

Herremans got man handled so bad I thought he was going to press assault charges. I wish someone had the video of that 3&2 replay

[NewEra]

We've been saying build the lines for years. Looks like they got something going with the Dline but the offensive line is horrible. Our guards suck!

[BrickHead]

Only Peyton can GM/Coach this team into the next decade.

 

He knows exactly what Luck is going through.

[dgambill]

Evan Mathis has been below average in Denver. And that's being nice.

You are VERY kind. Mathis was down right HORRIBLE the other night...far worse than anyone on our OL.

 

I can't say exactly what is wrong with our team. There are a meriad of different issues. The OL play hasn't been to the point where we can have consistant drives but I also have issues with the play calls and of course Lucks decision making too. I don't want to say Grigson doesn't have a part in this because he has tried to address many positions on the OL whether through the draft or in FA but they just haven't gelled. So he shares some blame but I have to think we have some coaching issues as well. Whether its technique or schemes etc on OL and DL we just haven't made the right adjustments or improvements (even incremental) that we should be making. This is the third year in Peps system for many and Luck has been playing it forever and he is still not recognizing his check downs...hot reads...and the OL is missing assignments and concepts that they should be identifying. I don't really know but I just am not seeing this coaching staff make adjustments week to week that put this team in the best case scenerio to win.

 

On a night we are facing a very very tough secondary and front seven we aren't making their LBs work to cover our two talented TE's?? Or using our speedy receivers to run drag routes across the middle to gain separation when clearly they have the top stuff covered with excellent safety play. Getting the ball out quickly to eleviate Luck's pass rush or even speeding up the tempo to wear down their DL? How about getting Gore out on the edge with some quick hitters or swing passes to give him a chance to make some people miss or over power...anyways these could be things that work or maybe not. I'm not a coach but I look for us to change things up and I'm just not seeing the adjustments. I'm not saying we can be the New England Patriots who are able to put in a whole new game plan from week to week and change their identity on a dime but dang just adding a few wrinkles or emphasizing some different things I don't know why we can't seem to do that.....and maybe we are doing that and the players aren't executing etc...I don't know but there is a lot of problems that everyone could be addressing. There isn't a player out there that is going to fix this so we need to get some people healthy and we need to keep working at improving our system and decision making right now...coaches and Luck. We have a stretch to get it right but the real test will come against teams like New England, Pittsburgh, Denver, and Cincy. Hopefully we can right the ship.

[RealityIsLuck]

I've never really bought into this story. It really doesn't make much sense. Especially this new forthcoming of Pagano wanting win now and Grigs wanting development.

 

Grigs calls the shots, and he signed AJ and Frank Gore this off-season (not young players), while Pagano is always talking about growth and development.

[superrep1967]

Wait, wait... So the GM who is signing FA, forcing rookies to start now and not drafting Corner/ILB/OT depth is drafting and thinking about the future? LOL one of the most backwards things I think I've seen in about 10 hours...

Btw didn't Grigson himself say the object is to win now before he puts a constraint on his Cap space?

If Grigs isn't all about winning now then why bring on aging players?

[CanuckColt]

Such nonsense regarding Grigson. 

He has been spending Irsay's money on questionable/bad over-the-hill players who are DONE!...trying to win now.

He has traded away draft picks for players to try to win now...most famous a 1st rounder for Trent Richardson.

He has drafted STUPIDLY (Werner, Dorsett) instead of addressing the O-line in the 1st 2 rounds of each draft and developing them...the only way to get excellent O-linemen...his picks say 'want to win now'. 

And the BIG problem is the one seldom talked about...Irsay is impatient and wants to win now...and Grigson is just trying to please his boss instead of properly building the team.

[juah216]

Hate to say it guys, Pagano will be the fall guy. Pep Hamilton will be the head coach next year. The only way that is not the case, is if Irsay burns the whole thing down.

 

Please Jim, if you care about this franchise, you will not allow a Grigson/Hamilton administration going into next year. 

 

Please no Pep.....

[Superman]

Evan Mathis may need some seasoning to adjust in Denver, but he's still better than what we have now. How about a new center, like former Raider Wisnewski? He ends up in Jacksonville for pennies on the dollar and is playing well. What do we get for our GM's effort? OT Thomas who barely saw the field, Herrmann who's dreadful; Cherious who was a swinging gate, etc.. We surround Luck with crap and we're surprised that both he and Gore aren't world beaters.

Case in point, just look at Philidelphia. They sign the former #1 pick for QB (Bradford) and a former all everything RB (DeMarco Murray). But just like us they surround then with a horrible OL. SO, what's the results? Bradford looks horrible and Murray has 11 yards in 2 full games. Ya think he misses that Cowboy stout OL he ran behind??

 

If Evan Mathis needs time to adjust to Denver, how would he be playing here? In a scheme he's never had success in?

 

Our center is fine. Wisnieski hasn't been playing well, he's been mediocre, and the Jags can't run up the middle. 

[21isSuperman]

Several sources say Grigson-Pagano rift deals with differing agendas, Grigson focused on development, big picture, Pagano looking to win now

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL)

September 22, 2015

Merged your thread with the mega-merge on this topic

[ReMeDy]

Oh, Pagano is the one who's looking to win now? I'm surprised by that. I figured it'd be the other way around.

[RockThatBlue]

I believe Pep Hamilton will NOT be employed by the Colts next year.

I don't think Ryan Grigson or Jim Irsay can stand before reporters and announce that Pep is the new guy.

There is zero credibility if that happens. Irsay won't have to burn the whole thing to fire Pep.

Pep being head coach is scary. He's already clueless at being an OC. He would be Jim Caldwell 2.0 (maybe even worse)

[runthepost]

He's gone

[Defjamz26]

Oh, Pagano is the one who's looking to win now? I'm surprised by that. I figured it'd be the other way around.

Grigson didn't want to take the Lions approach, which is a perfect example of how to build a team from the ground up. They might not be SB ready but they went from 0-16 to a playoff contender in about 4.5 years. They didn't try and win now. They took their time and slowly built a solid roster.

[krunk]

Evan Mathis may need some seasoning to adjust in Denver, but he's still better than what we have now. How about a new center, like former Raider Wisnewski? He ends up in Jacksonville for pennies on the dollar and is playing well. What do we get for our GM's effort? OT Thomas who barely saw the field, Herrmann who's dreadful; Cherious who was a swinging gate, etc.. We surround Luck with crap and we're surprised that both he and Gore aren't world beaters.

Case in point, just look at Philidelphia. They sign the former #1 pick for QB (Bradford) and a former all everything RB (DeMarco Murray). But just like us they surround then with a horrible OL. SO, what's the results? Bradford looks horrible and Murray has 11 yards in 2 full games. Ya think he misses that Cowboy stout OL he ran behind??

 

 

The Eagles line was one of the better lines in football last year.  I'm sure that's another thing that gave them confidence about getting Bradford.  That and their system of getting rid of the football fast.  September is historically a time where many teams play their worst football.  I expect the Eagles and the Colts to bounce back.

[MrJaffer]

Get rid of both of them, please. I've never been sold on Pagano and Grigs has made too many blunders. Hiring Pep Hamilton. Wasting early picks on Fleener, Werner, T-Rich when those could have been used for o-line. His off season pickups this last summer sucked, couldn't believe people were excited about over the hill guys like Gore and AJ. I was happy we cut bait with Wayne and then we go pick up those two old farts? I just think whatever vision he had for this team will not get us where we need to go.

Andrew really needs a strong, veteran football mind to help mold him into what he's capable of being. I thought Arians would've been great for his development. I don't buy into people saying that Luck would be in a wheelchair with him as HC. Lucks a big guy and a big part of what makes him (and Big Ben, Farve) great is his ability to hang in the pocket and absorb hits.

On a positive note, I do have faith in Irsay to go out and buy whoever he needs to buy. I think wed be in a great position to offer a big name control of both HC and GM responsibilities. That'd be hard to turn down couples with a franchise QB like Luck.

[threeflight]

How about this for head coach next year? Peyton Manning. Boom! IF guys like Chuck Pagano and Jim Caldwell can be a head coach, I darn well promise you Peyton can be. There is no one smarter in football. Would be a dream scenario.

[SkyBane]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/9/27/9404869/report-chuck-pagano-doesnt-have-autonomy-to-make-changes-to-coaching-staff-colts

 

Just saw this and didn't see a thread about it, also not really game day related so weee

 

Jason LaConfera of CBS reporting that no coaching changes will be made because Grigson decides what assistants Chuck is allowed to have. We've speculated this for awhile, but by the sounds of it, it's official now. Pep Hamilton is Grigson's pet and Pagano's noose.

[TKnight24]

Irsay has control over everything though so.... if he wants changes, changes WILL happen

[AntonMcG]

The games on...

[Dustin]

That part about wanting to hire Chud in 2012 makes no sense whatsoever. Chud was hired as a HC in 2013. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Annoying

[TKnight24]

Someone has to get Pep out of here. Is he married? Maybe his Wife can give him a ultimatum. Her or Football. Make him quit coaching

Teams make it obvious they're blitzing and he doesn't make adjustments. Bulls & Jets laid the blueprint out for the NFL. Blitz, Colts offense goes brain dead

We're running 8+ yard routes against 6-8 man blitzes.

Who does that?

[SDakColts]

I agree Pep is terrible as of right now, but he can only do so much. He can't help Thornton having to grab cloth every play and killing drives. He can't prevent Luck from making these terrible throws into triple coverage. Luck is making the same mistakes he made as a rookie. This offense needs change and it needs it fast, and yes a new coordinator is the first step.

[John Waylon]

Nothing new. This was reported in week 1. Rehash story.