Bjoern Werner

[Colts rock]

I still have faith in him. I've been watching a lot of his film lately. And after thinking about it, he was really hot those few weeks, then his production just dropped. I honestly think injuries may have slowed him down. My question is, what kind if stat line must Werner have to redeem himself? I think he will surprise. My prediction is

50 tackles, 6 sacks, a forced fumble or two.

Thoughts??

[Superman]

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/07/10/nfl-football-in-europe-bjoern-werner-germany/

 

Sort of on topic.

[IndyD4U]

I think that line would be a nice start as long as it's 50 solo. I just want his game play speed to increase. Some games, not all, he looks soooo slooooowww. 

[COLTS449]

If Mathis is back and his old self then Werner better be a monster this year. If he don't come out killing it he wont be playing much with Cole, Newsome, Mathis, and Walden ahead of him. If Mathis misses the first few weeks then Werner should have a longer leash, and more time to prove himself. I hope I'm wrong but this is my opinion of Werner. I think he's going to be a pretty good backup and nothing more. I don't see him putting up more than 3-4 sacks per year, I think when its all said and done we got a Erik Walden type OLB in the 1st round.

[Dustin]

He'll likely be ineffective like he has been his entire career. He had minimal production as a starter and I don't see how he increases that fighting for playing time behind 4 more valuable players.

[throwing BBZ]

 chuckle

[lollygagger8]

He'll be terrible for us, then we'll trade him to Buffalo for their 6th string LB and then he'll be good. 

[BOTT]

I see him sitting on the bench a lot

[Smonroe]

Okay, we know the excuse.  He's been playing injured. 

 

Then it gets to the point where you have to ask, will he ever be healthy?  Or will be one of those 'tub' guys?

 

As for what the team thinks of him, I think we'll know the answer when his rookie contract is done.

[Flash7]

I recall last year during training camp there was a lot of talk about Werner. He had been working out at the facility non-stop and had shown great improvement. In his first couple of games, he played well. He didn't have the number of sacks that we were hoping for, but he produced a lot of pressure on opposing QBs, which goes unnoticed a lot of the time. Then I think the injuries took effect and his play suffered.

 

We'll see how he plays this year.

[Track Guy]

I wouldn't completely write him off just yet like some of you are doing. We'll see either way though. This year will tell a lot.

[TKnight24]

Bust

[Gavin]

I think some need to grasp the idea of what a 4 year rookie contract is

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

If Mathis is back and his old self then Werner better be a monster this year. If he don't come out killing it he wont be playing much with Cole, Newsome, Mathis, and Walden ahead of him. If Mathis misses the first few weeks then Werner should have a longer leash, and more time to prove himself. I hope I'm wrong but this is my opinion of Werner. I think he's going to be a pretty good backup and nothing more. I don't see him putting up more than 3-4 sacks per year, I think when its all said and done we got a Erik Walden type OLB in the 1st round.

Looks like he may be coming off of the bench with these guys on the roster.

[Superman]

Okay, we know the excuse.  He's been playing injured. 

 

Then it gets to the point where you have to ask, will he ever be healthy?  Or will be one of those 'tub' guys?

 

As for what the team thinks of him, I think we'll know the answer when his rookie contract is done.

 

Yeah, that article didn't make me feel all that great about him. Every other answer was basically 'well, you know, I've been hurt, so I haven't been able to show what I can do.' Turn the page, kid.

 

He's not a Rush backer, he's going to be a Sam. And pretty good as a Sam, I think. Good spatial awareness in coverage, good on the edge, has good hands and technique, he'll be an average pass rusher for the position, maybe better, and he can tackle ball carriers when he gets the chance. It's too bad we spent a first rounder on a third round talent, but that's done. 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Yeah, that article didn't make me feel all that great about him. Every other answer was basically 'well, you know, I've been hurt, so I haven't been able to show what I can do.' Turn the page, kid.

 

He's not a Rush backer, he's going to be a Sam. And pretty good as a Sam, I think. Good spatial awareness in coverage, good on the edge, has good hands and technique, he'll be an average pass rusher for the position, maybe better, and he can tackle ball carriers when he gets the chance. It's too bad we spent a first rounder on a third round talent, but that's done. 

 

Yes, first off we need him to stay healthy.  Second, I think you're right -- he is more of a Sam/hybrid than a rush LB.  All that said, he was drafted as a project pick with just a few years of American football under his belt -- some may say first round isn't for projects, but I think he's got the size and the physical tools -- if he can just increase his play speed consistently and avoid getting nicked up, I think he could turn into a much better player than we've seen yet.

[Lawrence Owen]

He's fine.  Yes he was brought in to be a QB rusher, but fact is, he had one of the best tackling/run stopping ratio's on the team.  If injuries have been holding him back, then he will turn out be be not just good, but great.  

Honestly he should be a strong side Lb'er rather than a rusher.  This way he can put his abilities to better use.  A strong tackler that once in a while goes in to rush the QB as a change-up to the weak side.

[OLD FAN MAN]

I wouldn't completely write him off just yet like some of you are doing. We'll see either way though. This year will tell a lot.

yes, remember jerry hughes

[CanuckColt]

Werner is kinda fading into irrelevance as the Colts bring more and more players on board who can play his position.

[NewColtsFan]

I think some need to grasp the idea of what a 4 year rookie contract is

 

Unfortunately,  most fans do not have a 4-year attention span.

 

Some don't even have a 4-game attention span........

 

Just sayin.....          

[BigQandTheManiac]

He'll be terrible for us, then we'll trade him to Buffalo for their 6th string LB and then he'll be good.

Don't you just hate when that happens???

[NagelHausForge]

I was always excited about the Werner pick but kinda figured it would take him a couple years to transition given he was a 4-3 DE in college and switching to a 3-4 OLB in the NFL.  That being said, last year he started out the year doing pretty well but then seemed to fade off as the season wore on.  Maybe it was injuries or maybe it was some sort of developmental wall.  Hard to say.  I do feel this is a make or break season for him.  I hope he succeeds, even if its not necessarily as a pass rusher but more of a edge setting kind of OLB. 

 

I would like to see Newsome fill Mathis's role and Werner take on Walden's role.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

Werner is kinda fading into irrelevance as the Colts bring more and more players on board who can play his position.

The weak links need to be replaced in order to move forward as a team. T Rich comes to mind

when talking about this.

[BOTT]

I think some need to grasp the idea of what a 4 year rookie contract is

A contract that spans 4 yrs?

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Hopping for the best rooting for him, but this is probably a make or break year!

[Superman]

Yes, first off we need him to stay healthy.  Second, I think you're right -- he is more of a Sam/hybrid than a rush LB.  All that said, he was drafted as a project pick with just a few years of American football under his belt -- some may say first round isn't for projects, but I think he's got the size and the physical tools -- if he can just increase his play speed consistently and avoid getting nicked up, I think he could turn into a much better player than we've seen yet.

 

I don't think there was ever any indication that he has the kind of athleticism that really good NFL pass rushers almost always have. His play speed was deceptive because he had pretty good anticipation in college, but that hasn't translated to the pros. Even if it does, good pass blockers get back and shut down speed rushers all the time. 

 

Werner needs more than increased play speed to be a better pass rusher. He needs to improve his moves, play with better leverage, dip lower around the edge, etc. Unlike you, I don't believe he has the physical tools, but maybe he can get better in certain ways.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I don't think there was ever any indication that he has the kind of athleticism that really good NFL pass rushers almost always have. His play speed was deceptive because he had pretty good anticipation in college, but that hasn't translated to the pros. Even if it does, good pass blockers get back and shut down speed rushers all the time. 

 

Werner needs more than increased play speed to be a better pass rusher. He needs to improve his moves, play with better leverage, dip lower around the edge, etc. Unlike you, I don't believe he has the physical tools, but maybe he can get better in certain ways.

 

He is 6'3" 260+ lbs. -- so as far as physical size goes, he has that tool as a LBer.  I just looked through his other combine stats to see he is above-average/good in terms of bench reps (25 at 225lbs), all his other measurables were average or slightly below average, which I had thought differently on (for some reason I thought the 40 was the only thing he struggled with but thought he did very well elsewhere -- I'm wrong on that). 

 

http://archive.indystar.com/article/20130425/SPORTS15/304250112/2013-NFL-Draft-Poor-combine-performance-doesn-t-make-Bjoern-Werner-bad-pick-Colts-says-Bob-Kravitz

 

Looks like the reason Grigs/Pags liked him so much coming out of the draft was his play speed and ability to get off the snap, which he hasn't really shown in the NFL (at least not consistently).  I've read a few articles where coaches have mentioned the need for him to develop some signature moves.

 

We'll see what happens.  He was very raw coming out of college, and has been hurt a lot since he's been in the league, so I'll continue to remain optimistic that he can turn it around until he proves he is a bust.

[Superman]

He is 6'3" 260+ lbs. -- so as far as physical size goes, he has that tool as a LBer.  I just looked through his other combine stats to see he is above-average/good in terms of bench reps (25 at 225lbs), all his other measurables were average or slightly below average, which I had thought differently on (for some reason I thought the 40 was the only thing he struggled with but thought he did very well elsewhere -- I'm wrong on that). 

 

http://archive.indystar.com/article/20130425/SPORTS15/304250112/2013-NFL-Draft-Poor-combine-performance-doesn-t-make-Bjoern-Werner-bad-pick-Colts-says-Bob-Kravitz

 

Looks like the reason Grigs/Pags liked him so much coming out of the draft was his play speed and ability to get off the snap, which he hasn't really shown in the NFL (at least not consistently).  I've read a few articles where coaches have mentioned the need for him to develop some signature moves.

 

We'll see what happens.  He was very raw coming out of college, and has been hurt a lot since he's been in the league, so I'll continue to remain optimistic that he can turn it around until he proves he is a bust.

 

During draft season, Dustin posted a report showing the correlation for edge rushers between two or three speed/explosion Combine drills and success in the pros. I can't find it now, but I think it was 40 time, 10 yard split, and vertical. Pass rushers who don't grade out well on those drills typically don't do much in the NFL, and I think Werner was below average in all three of them.

 

He doesn't have good bend, at least not consistently. 

 

Big and strong, and a reasonably decent mover in space. But that's all kind of peripheral to being a good edge rusher.

[Malakai432]

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/07/10/nfl-football-in-europe-bjoern-werner-germany/

Sort of on topic.

Saw that the other day, good Q&A. Really pulling for the guy, this seems to be a very big year for him in the eyes of us Colts fans. Not expecting much at all and would be a great surprise if he had a great year.

[Hoosiernsavga]

What bothers me the most is Jerry Hughes struggled in a 4-3 and as soon as we switched too a 3-4 he showed improvement in preseason and we traded him for crap. Then we draft Werner who was a very raw 4-3 DE in the first rd. 

[Jason_]

What bothers me the most is Jerry Hughes struggled in a 4-3 and as soon as we switched too a 3-4 he showed improvement in preseason and we traded him for crap. Then we draft Werner who was a very raw 4-3 DE in the first rd. 

 

Where is this misconception that Werner was "very raw" coming out of college?  He played 2 years of HS football and 3 years at FSU.  He hasn't played football his entire life like a lot of players have, but he was also not "very raw" either. 

 

Here is a list of accolades he earned while at FSU:

 

*********** Unanimous All-American ***********

Walter Camp All-American (First Team)*

FWAA All-American (First Team)*

AP All-American (First Team)*

FACA FBS Coaches All-American (First Team)*

Sporting News All-American (First Team)*

CBSSports.com All-American (First Team)

Pro Football Weekly All-American (First Team)

Athlon Sports All-American (First Team)

SI.com All-American (Second Team)

Phil Steele All-American (Second Team)

ACC Defensive Player of the Year

Athlon Sports ACC Defensive Player of the Year

College Football News ACC Defensive Player of the Year

All-ACC (First Team)

Coaches All-ACC (First Team)

ESPN.com All-Conference (First Team)

Phil Steele Postseason All-ACC (First Team)

College Football News All-ACC (First Team)

Bronko Nagurski Trophy Finalist

Ted Hendricks Award Finalist

[Hoosiernsavga]

Where is this misconception that Werner was "very raw" coming out of college?  He played 2 years of HS football and 3 years at FSU.  He hasn't played football his entire life like a lot of players have, but he was also not "very raw" either. 

 

Here is a list of accolades he earned while at FSU:

 

*********** Unanimous All-American ***********

Walter Camp All-American (First Team)*

FWAA All-American (First Team)*

AP All-American (First Team)*

FACA FBS Coaches All-American (First Team)*

Sporting News All-American (First Team)*

CBSSports.com All-American (First Team)

Pro Football Weekly All-American (First Team)

Athlon Sports All-American (First Team)

SI.com All-American (Second Team)

Phil Steele All-American (Second Team)

ACC Defensive Player of the Year

Athlon Sports ACC Defensive Player of the Year

College Football News ACC Defensive Player of the Year

All-ACC (First Team)

Coaches All-ACC (First Team)

ESPN.com All-Conference (First Team)

Phil Steele Postseason All-ACC (First Team)

College Football News All-ACC (First Team)

Bronko Nagurski Trophy Finalist

Ted Hendricks Award Finalist

 

Yeah, I agree i should not have used the word "very" but he was raw. Werner's stock dropped because he had a horrible combine and scouts said he was raw. My point is I would rather have Hughes any day! 

Werner is just not a 3-4 rush OLB. 

[Defjamz26]

I think the mystery behind Werner is almost solved. It's very classy to me that he isn't going to be the short explosive rush OLB that he was drafted to be. But last season he showed he can be a good Sam linebacker. He was able to get 6.5 sacks and I think 2 FF, but that's probably his ceiling.

I wouldn't call the pick a bust,but more so a disappointment in terms of where and why he was drafted. But we know who he is now. It's just nice to know that the guess work is done.

[NewColtsFan]

I think the mystery behind Werner is almost solved. It's very classy to me that he isn't going to be the short explosive rush OLB that he was drafted to be. But last season he showed he can be a good Sam linebacker. He was able to get 6.5 sacks and I think 2 FF, but that's probably his ceiling.

I wouldn't call the pick a bust,but more so a disappointment in terms of where and why he was drafted. But we know who he is now. It's just nice to know that the guess work is done.

 

In the interest of accuracy I wanted to note that it was Newsome,  NOT Werner who got 6.5 sacks and 2 FF.

 

Werner got 4 sacks and 1 FF.  

 

Here's his bio.....

 

 

http://www.colts.com/team/roster/Bjoern-Werner/1a44dd7b-361e-47ef-b5fd-e553a8dc0d8d

[Defjamz26]

In the interest of accuracy I wanted to note that it was Newsome,  NOT Werner who got 6.5 sacks and 2 FF.

 

Werner got 4 sacks and 1 FF.  

 

Here's his bio.....

 

 

http://www.colts.com/team/roster/Bjoern-Werner/1a44dd7b-361e-47ef-b5fd-e553a8dc0d8d

Thanks. 4 sacks definitely isn't Rush OLB stuff. My money is still in Newsome being the starting Rush OLB while Werner is the future starting Sam.

[theanarchist]

He is 6'3" 260+ lbs. -- so as far as physical size goes, he has that tool as a LBer.  I just looked through his other combine stats to see he is above-average/good in terms of bench reps (25 at 225lbs), all his other measurables were average or slightly below average, which I had thought differently on (for some reason I thought the 40 was the only thing he struggled with but thought he did very well elsewhere -- I'm wrong on that). 

 

http://archive.indystar.com/article/20130425/SPORTS15/304250112/2013-NFL-Draft-Poor-combine-performance-doesn-t-make-Bjoern-Werner-bad-pick-Colts-says-Bob-Kravitz

 

Looks like the reason Grigs/Pags liked him so much coming out of the draft was his play speed and ability to get off the snap, which he hasn't really shown in the NFL (at least not consistently).  I've read a few articles where coaches have mentioned the need for him to develop some signature moves.

 

We'll see what happens.  He was very raw coming out of college, and has been hurt a lot since he's been in the league, so I'll continue to remain optimistic that he can turn it around until he proves he is a bust.

From the limited amount that I've seen from Werner I think he's a strong side OLB. He has the size and athleticism to set the edge and string plays out. You are correct about him not having much for pass rush moves. I personally think he would a solid strong side LB and maybe this is the year they throw him over there and see how it works out. Otherwise, they probably need to "specialize" him and use him on 3rd downs with his hand on the ground.

[backshoulderfade]

I think he is going to be 5th choice as an edge rusher. He is behind Mathis, Cole and Walden on early downs. If Newsome has got a little stronger and improved as an edge setter, I see him as being emergency depth.

[Dustin]

Yes, first off we need him to stay healthy.  Second, I think you're right -- he is more of a Sam/hybrid than a rush LB.  All that said, he was drafted as a project pick with just a few years of American football under his belt -- some may say first round isn't for projects, but I think he's got the size and the physical tools -- if he can just increase his play speed consistently and avoid getting nicked up, I think he could turn into a much better player than we've seen yet.

 

Werner is actually one of the least athletic EDGEs to come out in recent years.

 

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4288/position/19/[OLB]

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4288/position/15/[DE]

[Dustin]

 His play speed was deceptive because he had pretty good anticipation in college, but that hasn't translated to the pros

 

Shane Ray sends his regards. 

[Superman]

Here's the explanation of the edge rusher metric I was talking about. Nothing exact about it, but it shows Werner isn't anything special in terms of overall athleticism, at least not based on measurements. 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/53704/466/force-players-2015-draft