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DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

HtownColt

By HtownColt
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dw49 Active Roster

dw49

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These things are carefully worded...very carefully worded. The report went far enough to implicate but stopped short of convicting. 

 

That's the point Kraft was trying to make in his statement...we were all waiting for definitive proof but in the end all we got was 'here's a list of things that makes us believe he did...so...it sure seems that he probably did it'.

 

As I said before, I am not denying anything...I simply made the point that the report stopped just short of doing what we were hoping it would, and that leaves it juuuuuust open enough for people on both sides to continue arguing about it.

 

 

I think when everything is "leaked out" there will not be much doubt in a "reasonable" persons mind that Brady is guilty as all hell. I said "I think" which means it's a feeling or opinion. You BTW are one of this reasonable people. Many of the other NE posters Imo would not fall into that category.

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SDakColts Walk On

SDakColts

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These things are carefully worded...very carefully worded. The report went far enough to implicate but stopped short of convicting. 

 

That's the point Kraft was trying to make in his statement...we were all waiting for definitive proof but in the end all we got was 'here's a list of things that makes us believe he did...so...it sure seems that he probably did it'.

 

As I said before, I am not denying anything...I simply made the point that the report stopped just short of doing what we were hoping it would, and that leaves it juuuuuust open enough for people on both sides to continue arguing about it.

It isn't the investigators job to convict anyone of a wrongdoing. They are supposed to give the facts they find to NFL league offices so the commissioner and other league officials can get a grasp on what has taken place so the league with the help of the investigation can find the culprits involved in the matter and levy punishment to the parties involved. The league offices are the ones doing the convicting.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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Obviously you must not know what connotations means. The wording in the report has a lot of it. All the most likelys and highly probables' eventually add up and make it SOUND like they are reaching at times therefore it has connotations that make it sound like they are reaching. I am not disagreeing with the report as I find that I agree with the findings I am just saying the write up of this report is very easy for people to find it so called "reaching." So don't think I am trying to undermine the report I am just saying it could have been written better IMO.

 

Unless you're telling me that connotations = reaching, I don't know why you'd think I don't know what connotations means. All I'm saying is that I don't think the conclusions are a reach at all. When you conduct an extensive investigation and come away with a strong impression, I don't think that's considered a reach. Maybe it can't be proved conclusively...

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Yehoodi

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The investigator was a lawyer.  There wasn't a trial.  No one out and out confessed to anything.  That is how Tom Wells' going to portray the information.  Let me inform you that in lawyer-speak, he thinks Tom Terrific is guilty.  When they say "more likely than not" that's what Mr. Wells means.

 

Not to be a stickler here, but in lawyer-speak, being guilty requires the criminal standard not the civil standard. 

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GoPats

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Maybe you should read the report first.  Much perception will be changed if not changed already.  If you are fine with winning despite completely trashing the integrity of the game I guess that is your choice.  But for him soaking up his whole Cinderella 6th round pick story for all these years and DIRECTLY lie to everyone about the circumstances of his triumphant raise to the elite QB is pretty low to me.  He is no better than any washed up QB in my book.  Shouldn't even be in the same sentence as Manning.  Nonetheless Montana. 

 

Fact were brought up.  PSI levels were revealed where your organizations stupid attempt to use Science to cover is completely trashed as all variable under the same conditions have vastly different results.  Text messages and denial of information as well.  If it jumps like a frog, looks like a frog and acts like one then I guess...

 

So you read all 249 pages of the report this afternoon? Dang man, you're a quick reader.  :D

 

I based what I said on the language I've seen. 

 

And I'm sorry if you don't approve, but I don't look to the NFL (and the massively corrupt, generally speaking, world of pro sports) for "integrity." That's a bit over-the-top for me, personally. I enjoy watching it but I don't allow myself to be naive about it. 

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Jay Kirk

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It's legal speak. . . The burden of proof that the NFL is operating under is the same that is used in a civil case and is even used in campus misconduct hearings.

 

That burden of proof is "Preponderance of Evidence".  Which means that we operate based on what finding is more probable.  This is not a criminal trial where the burden of proof extends to beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

The lawyer by saying "more probable then not" was saying "the set burden of proof was met."  

 

Honestly I think the proof provided would meet a higher burden if required.

 

I still say they are gonna get off easy because they are going to take into account that there is ample evidence that other teams have done this or may do this as par for the course.

Other teams did not get caught , although your spot on the legality. :thmup:

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dw49 Active Roster

dw49

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Well I wouldn't say "nearly came to blows"... I haven't been in a fight of any kind since college.  :D  I never thought less of you or anyone though, and I hope that you can say the same for me. We won't always agree, that's life. But that won't stop me from thinking highly of you and plenty others around here! 

 

I'll be interested to read more of the report. But like I said, I don't think any conclusion from Wells without hard evidence would sway any opinions. People are exactly where they were with it on January 19th. 

 

 

If what's leaking out about the text messages found in the investigation , I don't think the last line you have there would be accurate. But maybe that info is tainted as was much of the other leaked stuff in this incident.

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csmopar

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I like how it states Brady refused to surrender his phone, yet Kraft states 'we' have cooperated.

Does this put a stain on Brady similar to the stain that is on Pete Rose?

Worse. Brady paid people off to try to cover it up. Rose didnt

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amfootball

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If what's leaking out about the text messages found in the investigation , I don't think the last line you have there would be accurate. But maybe that info is tainted as was much of the other leaked stuff in this incident.

Yes, the text messages are the most damning ... btw, they are really funny too. Apparently both guys don't like Tom too much. Ha.

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ÅÐØNϧ 1 Practice Squad

ÅÐØNϧ 1

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It's legal speak. . . The burden of proof that the NFL is operating under is the same that is used in a civil case and is even used in campus misconduct hearings.

 

That burden of proof is "Preponderance of Evidence".  Which means that we operate based on what finding is more probable.  This is not a criminal trial where the burden of proof extends to beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

The lawyer by saying "more probable then not" was saying "the set burden of proof was met."  

 

Honestly I think the proof provided would meet a higher burden if required.

 

I still say they are gonna get off easy because they are going to take into account that there is ample evidence that other teams have done this or may do this as par for the course.

 

Bill Polian said as much earlier .  This IMO also brings back into focus a story I remember about ball control & how the Patriots had miraculously improved the last few seasons infact way better than any other team ..

 

The teams willingness to cheat is without question its has occurred since 2000.. 

 

Tom Brady will sit for a couple of games I will bet on it ..

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BullsColtsFan1

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Let me get this out right up front:

I don't hate the Patriots.

I'm not "jealous" of their success.

I'm not a hater.

Everyone doesn't "hate" a winner... there are a lot of winning teams that we admire even though we "hate" losing to them.

 

This flat out turns my stomach.  As a long time fan of the game this is a big deal to me.   If it were my QB I wouldn't be making excuses or LOLing it off as a certain Pats fan here has been doing all day.  

 

It's wrong.

It destroys the integrity of the game.

You aren't a winner when you're willing to cheat to win (no matter whether or not the cheating "helped" or not)

 

Money doesn't matter to Brady - he should be suspended for a year.  Period.  If Sean Payton served a year for what his team did, Brady deserves to do likewise.  This will turn out to be a multi-year issue and I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots vaunted stats on not fumbling suddenly go right to where every other team is.

Amen to that brother

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SDakColts Walk On

SDakColts

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Unless you're telling me that connotations = reaching, I don't know why you'd think I don't know what connotations means. All I'm saying is that I don't think the conclusions are a reach at all. When you conduct an extensive investigation and come away with a strong impression, I don't think that's considered a reach. Maybe it can't be proved conclusively...

That is not what I am saying I am saying that connotations can = a lot of people thinking that the investigator is "reaching." People are wondering why the Pats are disagreeing with the report it is all because it is constantly filled with indecisive words like probably and most likely that cause hesitation. I shouldn't of said that you do not know what connotations are as you seem very intelligent in your posts. I agree with you a 100% though that I don't think the conclusions are a reach at all there is just too much there to think that. I also agree when you when you conduct a investigation and come away with strong indications, it is NOT a reach and it is justified. I think this report with carry more weight than people think with the League Offices as I think they will take the appropriate actions or at least I hope so.

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amfootball

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Let me get this out right up front:

I don't hate the Patriots.

I'm not "jealous" of their success.

I'm not a hater.

Everyone doesn't "hate" a winner... there are a lot of winning teams that we admire even though we "hate" losing to them.

 

This flat out turns my stomach.  As a long time fan of the game this is a big deal to me.   If it were my QB I wouldn't be making excuses or LOLing it off as a certain Pats fan here has been doing all day.  

 

It's wrong.

It destroys the integrity of the game.

You aren't a winner when you're willing to cheat to win (no matter whether or not the cheating "helped" or not)

 

Money doesn't matter to Brady - he should be suspended for a year.  Period.  If Sean Payton served a year for what his team did, Brady deserves to do likewise.  This will turn out to be a multi-year issue and I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots vaunted stats on not fumbling suddenly go right to where every other team is.

Are you joking? Haven't you defended your QB Rivers to the moon and back and his foul language/gesture toward Colts fans?

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dw49 Active Roster

dw49

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I think my dog might of torn up my couch...... he has shreds of the couch all around him and is laying by it, but I didn't actually see him do it..... Damn I don't think I have enough evidence to punish him  :(.

 

 

You have my permission to kick the mutt's butt. He did it.. believe me.

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