Who needs to go? Pagano or Grigson?

[Corndog]

Obviously lately there have been a lot of calling for heads on the board.  Of course some believe no changes need to be made, some believe this organization needs a complete overhaul.  The biggest divide seems to be who's fault is it that this team hasn't progressed and who needs to go in order for this team to go forward towards a Championship caliber team, coaching or management. Personally I believe Grigson deserves a little more time, but Pagano isn't getting the most out of this team.  But I want to know where the majority of the board really stands. 

[MB-ColtsFan]

Honestly, I think folks just need to get real. The 3rd year of this overhaul isn't done yet and folks are screaming for the heads of the coaching staff and GM. Let's hold off on these polls until after the season, shall we?

For all we know we could still go to the Super Bowl. Yeah, most highly unlikely with the way we've been trending, but it could happen. If it were to happen would folks still feel inclined to fire the staff?

The regular season DOES matter, but let's be real, the Super Bowl is why they play this game. Winning regular season games only amount to so much. As long as we get into the playoffs anything can happen. Let's wait until after the playoffs to judge management. That's all I'm saying.

[sfergson727]

Pags and Pep are out of their league, I wouldn't mind them both working elsewhere next season.  Don't get me wrong, they are both fine individuals, but collectively, neither are anything but average in their abilities as a coach IMHO.  I do not feel the Colts will ever reach their full potential under the current coaching staff which appears to be tone deaf as to who to play and when. 

 

When Pags came into being, he said we were going to have a monster defense, and a monster run game.  Fact is, we've accomplished neither, and are in fact getting worse as time goes on.  The performance last week was shameful, absolutely shameful.  We have had more shameful games this season than most teams not located in Jacksonville have in several seasons of play. 

 

We are continually not ready to play, stick with plans that are ineffective, and week after week hear the same old dumb excuses.  Nothing is getting done, and the only reason we have the record we do is because we reside in the AFC South.  Outside the AFC south division against playoff caliber teams we are 1 - 5. 

 

I'd like to see a coaching change before it is too late to salvage Andrew Luck's career.  He needs support and he's not getting it.

[Jason_]

jesus, how many "who should we fire" threads do we need?

 

 

 

I'd like to see a coaching change before it is too late to salvage Andrew Luck's career.  He needs support and he's not getting it.

 

Salvage Luck's career?  He's only in year 3.  Barring some freak injury, he still has plenty of time left in his career.  We're not talking about Manning or Brady who are in the final years of their career.  Get a grip. ;)

[sfergson727]

jesus, how many "who should we fire" threads do we need?

 

 

 

Salvage Luck's career?  He's only in year 3.  Barring some freak injury, he still has plenty of time left in his career.  We're not talking about Manning or Brady who are in the final years of their career.  Get a grip. ;)

So you are not alarmed with his propensity to throw interceptions or the beating he is taking?  Okay, good to know.

 

That is the root of why I made that statement.  He is at a crossroads right now, hopefully he will keep improving, and I think he will.  This staff though, is not helping him at the moment.

[Jason_]

So you are not alarmed with his propensity to throw interceptions or the beating he is taking?  Okay, good to know.

 

Did I say any of that? 

[Superman]

jesus, how many "who should we fire" threads do we need?

 

 

 

Salvage Luck's career?  He's only in year 3.  Barring some freak injury, he still has plenty of time left in his career.  We're not talking about Manning or Brady who are in the final years of their career.  Get a grip. ;)

 

[SilentHill]

Neither, to be honest I'd rather see Manusky and Pep go.

[NewColtsFan]

Next poll?

 

Who needs to go:  Pagano or Grigson?    (It's totally different because I reversed the names!)

 

Then.....

 

Who should lose their job:    (It's totally different,  I didn't say needs to go, I said lose their job!)

 

And on and on and on.....

 

We just re-word the question and pretend it's something entirely new!     Brilliant!     Genius!

 

I appreciate that this is a disappointing season,  but we're going to win 11 games and be in the playoffs.

 

If that's a disappointing season -- and yes,  this has been a disappointing season -- then Colts fans don't have it so bad.

[peytonmanning18]

We need continuity. Neither of them are going anywhere. The best franchises in the league don't hire and fire coaches nonstop.

[jskinnz]

The very notion that this thread or others like exist is mind numbing. By any reasonable measure the Grigson / Pagano regime has been a success. What is likely to be 3 straight 11 win seasons, 3 straight playoff appearances and 2 straight division titles plus a playoff win is not the resume of people whose job is or should be in jeopardy. Add to that this season is not yet complete. Even if they are one and done, from where they came from this is a remarkable turnaround. And people think they should be fired - complete and absolute nonsense. If the people who were calling for these decisions to be made ran their own business the only word to describe that business would be bankrupt.

Random and knee jerk rarely if ever trump measured and sustainable.

This also does not mean that they get a pass on decisions or that everything they have touched has turned to gold. Clearly it has not. But firing - that is comical.

[The Fish]

Manunsky going wouldn't break my heart- but let's pretend like we all know a least something about football. Front office's don't fire staff's that haven't missed the playoffs and they shouldn't.

I know this is hard to accept (I don't like it either- stupid other teams that might be better in the playoffs) but only one team wins the SB every year. Continuity going forward is worth more than some here seem to think.

[04DarkShadowGT]

So you are not alarmed with his propensity to throw interceptions or the beating he is taking?  Okay, good to know.

 

That is the root of why I made that statement.  He is at a crossroads right now, hopefully he will keep improving, and I think he will.  This staff though, is not helping him at the moment.

 

Not really, given how often he throws the ball his int percentage is not that out of wack.

 

The fans jumping off the ledge need to get a freakin grip, I mean really.  Did you forget what 2-14 felt like?  It wasn't that long ago that it occurred.  That and virtually the entire team except literally just a few players are different.  That is almost a full turnover of the roster in THREE years.  

 

They are fine, they will be fine, sure they aren't the Broncos or Patriots but get a grip folks.

 

 

If at the end of the 2-14 season someone would tell any of us Colts fans that after some house cleaning the Colts would finish with 10+ years the next three years, make the playoffs every year, and win at least one playoff game EVERYONE would have taken it.  

 

Aside from a few moves, Grigson has done a great job managing the cap.  What other team is playing so many key undrafted rookies.  The 12 and 14 drafts were excellent.  The team is still building BUT they are winning a lot of games while doing it.

[colts8718]

Pags and Pep are out of their league, I wouldn't mind them both working elsewhere next season.  Don't get me wrong, they are both fine individuals, but collectively, neither are anything but average in their abilities as a coach IMHO.  I do not feel the Colts will ever reach their full potential under the current coaching staff which appears to be tone deaf as to who to play and when. 

 

When Pags came into being, he said we were going to have a monster defense, and a monster run game.  Fact is, we've accomplished neither, and are in fact getting worse as time goes on.  The performance last week was shameful, absolutely shameful.  We have had more shameful games this season than most teams not located in Jacksonville have in several seasons of play. 

 

We are continually not ready to play, stick with plans that are ineffective, and week after week hear the same old dumb excuses.  Nothing is getting done, and the only reason we have the record we do is because we reside in the AFC South.  Outside the AFC south division against playoff caliber teams we are 1 - 5. 

 

I'd like to see a coaching change before it is too late to salvage Andrew Luck's career.  He needs support and he's not getting it.

Last week was one of the most shameful games I have seen the Colts play Pagano keeps preaching this Monster D and run game it's the same old song. I feel we will never move much further with this coaching staff 

[UKCOLT17]

jesus, how many "who should we fire" threads do we need?

 

 

 

Salvage Luck's career?  He's only in year 3.  Barring some freak injury, he still has plenty of time left in his career.  We're not talking about Manning or Brady who are in the final years of their career.  Get a grip. ;)

 

 

i agree with most of the post but its not going to take some freak injury with the amount of hits luck takes wont be long before injury does happen. heres a nice little read.

 

http://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/brunos-blog/luck-takes-responsibility-others-deserve-blame

 

 Last year, Luck posted a 99.9 rating in his final four games. As a rookie, it was 88.3 in the final three. In those seven, he threw 13 touchdown passes with a single interception. Each of those years, he got stronger toward the end of the season, peaking at the right time. This year, he appears to be losing steam. Maybe the 600 passes have taken their toll, or the 70 hits he’s taken. 

[Moopsiepuffs]

I would like Pagano to go. His play-calling, personnel selection and ability to get his players prepared are all in serious doubt.

He's an average to below average head coach in this league. It's natural to want better.

[Bleedin Blue]

How many knee-jerk reactions have ever worked out well?

[coltkingABC]

Grigson for not getting more talent around Luck to get to the AFC title game and Super Bowl.

[peytonmanning18]

I would like Pagano to go. His play-calling, personnel selection and ability to get his players prepared are all in serious doubt.

He's an average to below average head coach in this league. It's natural to want better.

2 of your 3 complaints about Pagano are not even his job. He doesn't pick the players (that's Grigsons job) and he doesn't call the plays (that's Pep Hamiltons job)

[Jason_]

Grigson for not getting more talent around Luck to get to the AFC title game and Super Bowl.

Yeah how dare grigson not have the colts as the most talented roster in the league in less than 3 years after gutting the entire roster...which is really only 2 years because of how cap strapped they were that first offseason. That's no excuse though. ...we want what we want and WE WANT IT NOW!!!!! And if he can't meet our wildly unrealistic expectations well then, fire the bum!!!!

*rolls eyes*

[Jason_]

i agree with most of the post but its not going to take some freak injury with the amount of hits luck takes wont be long before injury does happen. heres a nice little read.

http://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/brunos-blog/luck-takes-responsibility-others-deserve-blame

Last year, Luck posted a 99.9 rating in his final four games. As a rookie, it was 88.3 in the final three. In those seven, he threw 13 touchdown passes with a single interception. Each of those years, he got stronger toward the end of the season, peaking at the right time. This year, he appears to be losing steam. Maybe the 600 passes have taken their toll, or the 70 hits he’s taken.

Fair enough to a degree. However 2 points...first they're not going to just let him keep taking all these hits without constantly doing everything in their power to fix the OL problem, and second, many of the hits luck takes are self inflicted from holding onto the ball too long.

[Jason_]

2 of your 3 complaints about Pagano are not even his job. He doesn't pick the players (that's Grigsons job) and he doesn't call the plays (that's Pep Hamiltons job)

Yeah but we don't want to let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt

[Gavin]

Fair enough to a degree. However 2 points...first they're not going to just let him keep taking all these hits without constantly doing everything in their power to fix the OL problem, and second, many of the hits luck takes are self inflicted from holding onto the ball too long.

I was going to post this exact same thing earlier but I just figured why bother. Its not going to change the masses opinions on Pagano or Pep, For some Luck can do no wrong

[FalseStart]

Neither.

 

The Richardson deal...hurt.  Could have had Kelvin Benjamin WR.  That's the way it goes...  Our O-Line and Run-Stop should be a priority...

Next draft should improve those two...need to get a #1 receiver to replace Reggie/Nicks...

 

Can't complain too much about 11-5 for the third straight year...after we  beat Titans.

[Gavin]

Neither.

 

The Richardson deal...hurt.  Could have had Kelvin Benjamin WR.  That's the way it goes...  Our O-Line and Run-Stop should be a priority...

Next draft should improve those two...need to get a #1 receiver to replace Reggie/Nicks...

 

Can't complain too much about 11-5 for the third straight year...after we  beat Titans.

I wasn't high on Benjamin actually. I thought....and still think he could make a better TE  but he sure has had a good rookie year

[Moopsiepuffs]

2 of your 3 complaints about Pagano are not even his job. He doesn't pick the players (that's Grigsons job) and he doesn't call the plays (that's Pep Hamiltons job)

By personnel selection I mean selecting who plays each snap. Pagano is involved in that, not Grigson.

You are also kidding yourself if you think Pagano has no influence on the play-calling on both sides of the ball.

So no, 2 of my 3 comments were not misplaced, thank you.

[UKCOLT17]

Fair enough to a degree. However 2 points...first they're not going to just let him keep taking all these hits without constantly doing everything in their power to fix the OL problem, and second, many of the hits luck takes are self inflicted from holding onto the ball too long.

 

i hope they do everything in there power but to date the havent done enough and thats on them there scouting department and coaching abilities .luck does hold on to it but then u can blame the play calling and the players for not getting open imo we would score alot less if luck didnt hold onto it but he wouldnt take so many hits.i am not against pagano or grigson and obviously they know more than me which is why they get paid to do what they do

[Happy2BeHere]

Ehh I think personally Pagano. Seriously love the guy as a person, but as an eye for talent he just isn't doing it. If your a defensive coach the first thing you do is handle your expertise. You don't have your CFO out doing the work of the grunt...doesn't make sense. You've got to hand it to Grigs..he's a new GM in totality...and he's done far better than some seasoned GMs. As the GM if I was Grigson id be requesting the coaching change at head coach and at defensive coordinator.

I'm in the minority here but I'd easily give pep several more years. He stepped up this year and had done well...our offense has mostly been pretty stellar. Our defense hasn't been able to help the offense out nearly as much as the offense has helped the defense (see time of possession).

Again just the choices I'd make as the GM

[peytonmanning18]

By personnel selection I mean selecting who plays each snap. Pagano is involved in that, not Grigson.

You are also kidding yourself if you think Pagano has no influence on the play-calling on both sides of the ball.

So no, 2 of my 3 comments were not misplaced, thank you.

Your comments are misplaced and your opinion that a coach that has won back to back division titles and 3 straight playoff appearances after taking over a 2-14 team should be fired is incredibly misguided.

[Moopsiepuffs]

Your comments are misplaced and your opinion that a coach that has won back to back division titles and 3 straight playoff appearances after taking over a 2-14 team should be fired is incredibly misguided.

Any coach in the league right now would win that division with the Colts. Easily.

The Titans finished second with seven wins last year. Winning the South is not a difficult task. Stop acting like taking the Colts to the playoffs is a hard thing to do, because the one time it was difficult, Bruce Arian's was in charge.

[1959Colts]

Ask me again in two weeks.

[K-148]

Any coach in the league right now would win that division with the Colts. Easily.

The Titans finished second with seven wins last year. Winning the South is not a difficult task. Stop acting like taking the Colts to the playoffs is a hard thing to do, because the one time it was difficult, Bruce Arian's was in charge.

Right now Sean Payton can't win garbage NFC South. With Drew Brees, Jimmy Graham, Mark Ingram.. Fire him immediately!

[crazycolt1]

Last week was one of the most shameful games I have seen the Colts play Pagano keeps preaching this Monster D and run game it's the same old song. I feel we will never move much further with this coaching staff 

Other posters try to explain why this team still needs work but you insist on being a broken record. What is the use to have a debate with you when you cant get over your negativity long enough to see the big picture as far as how long it takes to build a competitive playoff team. Most of us try to have a debate with you but all your interested in is arguing.

[crazycolt1]

Any coach in the league right now would win that division with the Colts. Easily.

The Titans finished second with seven wins last year. Winning the South is not a difficult task. Stop acting like taking the Colts to the playoffs is a hard thing to do, because the one time it was difficult, Bruce Arian's was in charge.

Well Arians is not the Colts head coach. He will not be their head coach. He has not been with the Colts for 2 years. Now, you got that? Try something else.

[UKColt13]

The only one I can see maybe leaving is Manusky. That is if Rex Ryan is available.

[YOUR GM]

I don't think Pagano is the coach to lead us to the promise land, but now is not the time to talk about firing him. I'll just say, his seat would be much hotter right now if he didn't have 12

[colts8718]

Other posters try to explain why this team still needs work but you insist on being a broken record. What is the use to have a debate with you when you cant get over your negativity long enough to see the big picture as far as how long it takes to build a competitive playoff team. Most of us try to have a debate with you but all your interested in is arguin

Of course it need's work and yes I see the BIG picture and I don't like Pagano in it. You consider it Negativity I consider it being objective I did not like Irsay's Choice of Pagano and Grigson from the start and I like Irsay. I state what I feel I don't need to debate with anyone have a great xmas  GO COLTS

[SOMDColtsfan]

The most frustrating part of all this is the defense. Giving up 42,42 and 51 points in the "biggest" games in the same season really magnifies the losses. They were not competitive at all. They still only count for a single loss each but as a fan seem much bigger than that. Definitely lowers expectations moving forward which is probably where should have been all along

[Jason_]

Of course it need's work and yes I see the BIG picture and I don't like Pagano in it. You consider it Negativity I consider it being objective I did not like Irsay's Choice of Pagano and Grigson from the start and I like Irsay. I state what I feel I don't need to debate with anyone have a great xmas  GO COLTS

 

what didn't you like about Irsay's hiring of Grigson?  Who would you have preferred?

[Moopsiepuffs]

Well Arians is not the Colts head coach. He will not be their head coach. He has not been with the Colts for 2 years. Now, you got that? Try something else.

This thread is asking a question regarding who you would prefer. I answered the question.

I'm well aware Arians is not with the Colts. If the topic upsets you so much, don't enter the thread. Merry Christmas.