Kiper gives Colts draft grade D +

[BlueCollarColts]

We did draft 2 future starters in this draft IMO in Donte Mocrief and Jack Mewhort, and we have 2 other future possible starters in Jonathan Newsome and Andrew Jackson, so I don't see how this is an awful draft.

[SOMDColtsfan]

What would this years draft be graded "IF" the TRich just out of college potential was picked at #26 in 1st round along with rest of draft picks? You have to add TRich in with this draft after giving up a #1 and that result is still to be determined IMO..  

[Nobody]

What about Freeman?

He's 28 years old.

[DirtyLANDRY30]

I gave the Browns a grade D, don't worry about it.

Can't believe the pick for Manziel came from the Richardson traded. Looks like the Colts will win on that trade after all.

Nope... Your wrong... Jimmie Ward was still on the board

[Yoshinator]

We did draft 2 future starters in this draft IMO in Donte Mocrief and Jack Mewhort, and we have 2 other future possible starters in Jonathan Newsome and Andrew Jackson, so I don't see how this is an awful draft.

It was bad because there were guys in rounds 5-7 who fell 2 or more rounds that were great value that grigson didn't pick up. We could of got Skov instead of Jackson, "Tiny Richardson" instead of Uldrick John if you really wanted another Lineman, and there were better DE's than Newsome left and Newsome probably wasn't going to be drafted. Yes, the first two picks I really liked, however, they are "future" starters as you said. We shouldn't be drafting like the 49ers for depth when we aren't as good and have less picks. 

[bballstud2]

You guys act like the ONLY need we have is S/CB. I understand we do need players there, but do you really think someone we draft in round 5 or 6 is going to step in and be better than Howell, someone with NFL experience who played pretty good last year? I think that as far as depth goes, OL was just as big of a need as secondary. There will probably be at least 2-3 injuries on the OL, probably more, and you HAVE to have guys who can step in and play well. People saying we haven't drafted CB in 3 years are wrong, I count Vontae Davis as our 2nd round pick last year, and a darn good one, considering he's a top 10-12 corner in the league and only getting better, and especially considering that like more than half of the corners taken in the second round end up being bad, maybe even out of league within a few years. Depending on the play of Holmes and Werner this year, last years draft could end up being fantastic(counting Vontae as a second rounder). If we end up with 2-3 starters from this year(Mewhort, Jackson, Moncrief in a year or 2), I would consider this another amazing draft, especially considering we had no first rounder. 

[DirtyLANDRY30]

Greg Toler was injured, Mark Sanchez & Blaine Gabbert could've picked Toler apart the way he was limping. Bad coaches decision to play him

But like we all saw week 7 vs Denver. When healthy, that secondary is top 10. It wasn't until the injury bug beat the Colts (as he usually does) that Denver started scoring

We stopped the most historical offense in NFL history, so I know we can stop anybody. Injuries just hate us. And the 1st Kansas city game we strapped them too. Like I said, injuries caught up. There's only 2 teams with enough depth to have the injuries we had & still get to their conference championship game & that's Seattle & San Francisco

You all sit back & talk about depth & say Seattle & San Francisco are so great but forget to realize they've been bottom feeding the last 6+ years. It's easy to get depth & top talent when you're picking top 10 in the draft consistently. Unless you're the Jags cause they just suck.

But point being, the 49ers & Seahawks took TIME to get to the talent their at. You all are too impatient, that's the problem. You can't build dynastys & championship teams overnight. Just doesn't happen.

2-14 2 years ago, we're not even supposed to be above 8-8 right now but we are with 2 playoff appearances. Some of you really need to slap yourselves & realize how truly blessed you are to be a fan of a team that turned it around all in ONE off-season when people had us only winning 3 games the year luck was drafted. We could easily be like the Browns or Jags and just have disappointing year after disappointing year.

But no, no one appreciates anything anymore these days. People are too ungrateful, just never satisfied with what they have. Always looking at what they don't have

*Drops Mic*

"Drops Mic"

Hey eminem... Did the Denver broncos create a Super Bowl team/ dynasty over night... With Peyton manning?

YES.

"Drops mic"

"Picks it back up"

Also what grade would you give our draft last year? I think everyone's just tired of drafting developmental players... We haven't had plug in starters in any round sense telesco left (I guess you could argue Thorton, only because Thomas got injured)

And I love how u say our secondary stopped one of the best offenses in history... So did San Diego in the regular season ))) and their secondary was....?

[Yoshinator]

You guys act like the ONLY need we have is S/CB. I understand we do need players there, but do you really think someone we draft in round 5 or 6 is going to step in and be better than Howell, someone with NFL experience who played pretty good last year? I think that as far as depth goes, OL was just as big of a need as secondary. There will probably be at least 2-3 injuries on the OL, probably more, and you HAVE to have guys who can step in and play well. People saying we haven't drafted CB in 3 years are wrong, I count Vontae Davis as our 2nd round pick last year, and a darn good one, considering he's a top 10-12 corner in the league and only getting better, and especially considering that like more than half of the corners taken in the second round end up being bad, maybe even out of league within a few years. Depending on the play of Holmes and Werner this year, last years draft could end up being fantastic(counting Vontae as a second rounder). If we end up with 2-3 starters from this year(Mewhort, Jackson, Moncrief in a year or 2), I would consider this another amazing draft, especially considering we had no first rounder. 

We literally could improve everywhere except QB and TE. I actually wanted to draft a Terrance Brooks in round 3 or trade up for Ed Reynolds in round 5. I believe those 2 would of beaten out howell easy. The Mewhort pick was intelligent, I just don't know where he is going to play (guard) or if he'll get playing time. I also don't understand why people are so high on Andrew Jackson. Our ILB's are pretty solid with Dqwell now and I don't think Andrew Jackson sniffs the starting lineup unless there's an injury. If he makes the team.

[BigQandTheManiac]

i just don't understand why he didn't draft any dbs just for depth....Landry, toler..and howell have had injury problems throughout there careers....unless he plans to still get someone before the season starts i just don't understand it....we have three injury plague starters...if one goes down...smh 

[Yoshinator]

i just don't understand why he didn't draft any dbs just for depth....Landry, toler..and howell have had injury problems throughout there careers....unless he plans to still get someone before the season starts i just don't understand it....we have three injury plague starters...if one goes down...smh 

I just don't understand this draft, period.

[Superman]

Maybe the type of DBs we need are only going to be around in the higher parts of round 1 and 2. So it would be preferable to add them via Free Agency. Or maybe he doesn't consider the position to be of equal importance as the line or LBs.

 

He clearly weights his board toward trench players, which is fine. And I am not a professional talent evaluator, so I can't claim to know anything.

 

But when I watch guys like Alden Darby or Dion Bailey, etc., they look like guys who can contribute. And even if they are raw and need a lot of development, they could make the final roster as deep reserves and contribute on special teams. A guy like Ulrick John is -- IMO -- highly unlikely to make the final 53, and the fact that he can't cover kickoffs and punts means that his value outside of the base offense is pretty much nonexistent. To me, they would have been better options in the 7th round.

 

Also, through three drafts, we have 4 defensive players on the roster (assuming Newsome and Jackson stick). A big part of that is how heavily the 2012 was drafted toward offense. But having young, homegrown defensive players will be important for the long-term development of our roster. 

[Flash7]

In Free Agency, the storyline was that we added Hakeem Nicks and are getting Wayne and D.Allen back--will there be enough footballs to go around? Our strength, it seemed, was our receiving corps.

 

In FA, we added DQ Jackson and Muamba to solidify our ILB corps, and added A. Jones to help along the D-line. We knew then that we needed to address our secondary and depth at the O-line.

 

So in the draft, we add depth to our O-line, which is a good thing, but we added another receiver and added another LB which were areas that we had already addressed. This was a great opportunity to strengthen our areas of weakness and failed to do so. Now we have to cross our fingers and hope that the UDFA's make the squad.

 

So, by these moves, we could make an argument that either some of our FA moves were in vein, or our draft was inadequate.

[zibby43]

The people that "love" this draft must have rose-colored glasses on. Now I will hold off a year or 2 before "grading it" but don't expect good grades from analysts this week. 

 

I personally think we had one of the worst drafts this year. I was in shock of the picks that we made, except for Moncrief. But we don't even need a WR, like at all. We do however need CB/S (depth at least). I'm scared of our secondary, they have been ignored all offseason(except for re-signing Vontae) and it's going to come back to bite us.

 

I'm about ready for a new GM or at least new draft scouts because these guys have been TERRIBLE in early rounds the past 2 years. Late round picks are fine with me this year, look like they have great potential but really think drafting a CB or a safety could've made this draft look a lot better. We are not the 49ers, we can't just draft BPA everytime without addressing some key needs on this football team. 

 

You lost all credibility when I read ". . . we don't even need a WR." 

 

Are you kidding me?   Last year, after Wayne went down, we could barely complete a pass for a stretch of games.  It was absolutely brutal.  Slow starts on offense, three and outs, field goals, etc.

 

Wayne and Hilton are our only proven, consistent WRs.  Whalen is a special teamer/backup, Brazill is a borderline starter, and Rogers is a project.

 

We don't know if Nicks and Wayne will be able to just bounce right back after their injuries. 

 

And Wayne's career is coming to a close.  After Wayne and Nicks leave, would you rather throw a bunch of unproven rookies out there to catch balls from Luck?  Or Moncrief after 1-2 years of being on our roster?

[zibby43]

We literally could improve everywhere except QB and TE. I actually wanted to draft a Terrance Brooks in round 3 or trade up for Ed Reynolds in round 5. I believe those 2 would of beaten out howell easy. The Mewhort pick was intelligent, I just don't know where he is going to play (guard) or if he'll get playing time. I also don't understand why people are so high on Andrew Jackson. Our ILB's are pretty solid with Dqwell now and I don't think Andrew Jackson sniffs the starting lineup unless there's an injury. If he makes the team.

 

Mewhort can play Center.

 

Does anyone remember needing to fill that void?

[Tom Moroney]

I'm liking the look of our UDFA's like CB Qua cox, CB Keon Lyn, and SS Dewey McDonald.  All three look to be hard hitting and smart secondaries.  Looking forward to seeing what these three can bring to the organization. 

[Bluefire4]

Secondary depth may be a problem but at corner we do have Sheldon Price who they must like if he's lasted this long and got on the 53 at the end of the season. I also love Qua Cox's confidence. I'm intrigued about what he brings. Grigs said there was only a handful of safeties he liked. Just because people see safeties rated high in mock drafts doesn't mean they automatically will be good. Maybe McDonald was one of the safeties they really liked and he didn't get drafted.

[peytonmanning18]

When teams feel obligated to draft a position you end up with Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville.

[Yoshinator]

When teams feel obligated to draft a position you end up with Blaine Gabbert in Jacksonville.

LOL, no when teams reach in the first round they end up with Blaine Gabbert (or Blake Bortles).

[NFLfan]

Luck is always the ace in the hole. Thanks to the Richardson trade, I get to see Johnny Football twice a year. Those Browns are funny.

What do you and other Browns fans think of the Pierre Desir pick? I really wanted my team to draft him.

[adamthyst]

This is why Kiper's not a GM. I'm happy with what we have, we can find the rest of the pieces we truly need before the season starts.

[Yoshinator]

What do you and other Browns fans think of the Pierre Desir pick? I really wanted my team to draft him.

What is your team if it's not the Colts? Don't really know you. I was screaming on the chat boards yesterday for the colts to trade up for him. I like Desir.

[NewColtsFan]

People here should get ready for the fact that Kiper will not be the only negative review of our draft.

 

Everyone is going to kill it.

 

NOT because it's bad -- it's not.   The draft was OK.   The draft was fine.

 

But because most of the players we took the so-called "draft experts" do not know.    And if they don't know them,  the experts will kill them.

 

Most do not know Mewhort,  or Newsome,  or Jackson or the big left tackle.

 

These are not glamorous sexy names.    This is not a glamorous or sexy draft.     No one is going to like it.

 

This is the year to avoid those mock draft grades.   Just read other stories.   Pay no attention to them.   They will not be kind.

 

Mel Kiper and Brad Wells will have plenty of company.....    ignore them.

[Nobody]

Don't count out Newsome either! If he develops right that man is a future starter as well

Absolutely, I would love that. But I'm assuming he's a situational player in the future.

[Yoshinator]

People here should get ready for the fact that Kiper will not be the only negative review of our draft.

 

Everyone is going to kill it.

 

NOT because it's bad -- it's not.   The draft was OK.   The draft was fine.

 

But because most of the players we took the so-called "draft experts" do not know.    And if they don't know them,  the experts will kill them.

 

Most do not know Mewhort,  or Newsome,  or Jackson or the big left tackle.

 

These are not glamorous sexy names.    This is not a glamorous or sexy draft.     No one is going to like it.

 

This is the year to avoid those mock draft grades.   Just read other stories.   Pay no attention to them.   They will not be kind.

 

Mel Kiper and Brad Wells will have plenty of company.....    ignore them.

That's not the reason that we are getting bad reviews from Kiper and the experts. It's because we didn't really improve much in one of the best drafts in a long time and pretty much got no starters that will start this year. Almost every other team (especially in the AFC South) got way better in some way. We got depth picks pretty much that will either help in a couple years or that we are HOPING just make an impact.

[NFLfan]

What is your team if it's not the Colts? Don't really know you. I was screaming on the chat boards yesterday for the colts to trade up for him. I like Desir.

I was on the chat board here too on Friday and yesterday. I was pleased for the opportunity to join Colts fans. You all were great.

My team is the Vikings but I am also a Stanford fan and big fan of Andrew (smart, humble, good guy all around, and of course a great football player!).

I wanted the Vikes to take Desir with the 2nd of the two 3rd Rd picks. Instead they took Andy's 16th ranked running back (J. McKinnon). I read that McKinnon put up great numbers at the combine. IMO, that is no reason to select him over a guy like Desir. We needed secondary help badly. By the time we picked again, Desir was gone. Vikes did pick up Stanford guard David Yankey, which was a good pick up.

Jared, were you the one on the chat board that was calling for Tiny Richardson? The Vikes signed him.

Note: For those who don't know, Andy is this forum's draft expert. He posted his draft guide in the Draft/Free Agency section. If you want to learn more about the guys you picked up including the UDFAs, check out Andy's guide (70+ pages, I think). He is better than Kiper, Mayock, and the others, IMO.

[Superman]

People here should get ready for the fact that Kiper will not be the only negative review of our draft.

 

Everyone is going to kill it.

 

NOT because it's bad -- it's not.   The draft was OK.   The draft was fine.

 

But because most of the players we took the so-called "draft experts" do not know.    And if they don't know them,  the experts will kill them.

 

Most do not know Mewhort,  or Newsome,  or Jackson or the big left tackle.

 

These are not glamorous sexy names.    This is not a glamorous or sexy draft.     No one is going to like it.

 

This is the year to avoid those mock draft grades.   Just read other stories.   Pay no attention to them.   They will not be kind.

 

Mel Kiper and Brad Wells will have plenty of company.....    ignore them.

 

These people have no business evaluating a draft if they haven't heard of Jack Mewhort (a starting tackle for a major conference program that just won 24 games in a row), Jonathan Newsome (not a notable prospect, but all you had to do was watch the Combine to be even somewhat familiar with him), and Andrew Jackson (I'm just a guy on the Internet, but I started watching ILB prospects in January and am very familiar with Jackson).

 

I'm not sure it's just that they weren't familiar with the players. I think the issue is that we didn't draft the players at the positions that people thought we needed most. People thought we should draft a safety (very understandable, and I felt the same) and a center (kind of silly, IMO, but a popular opinion). We did neither. Makes it a bad draft in their eyes.

 

And that's really the folly of looking at a team's roster and talking about the needs they might have, then projecting their draft based on those needs. Drafting a rookie at a particular position doesn't mean that you no longer have a need at that position. Even a first rounder. The Browns needed a QB; are we willing to say that they no longer have a need? Draft picks have to prove themselves before needs are filled, because football isn't played on paper.

[Superman]

I was on the chat board here too on Friday and yesterday. I was pleased for the opportunity to join Colts fans. You all were great.

My team is the Vikings but I am also a Stanford fan and big fan of Andrew (smart, humble, good guy all around, and of course a great football player!).

I wanted the Vikes to take Desir with the 2nd of the two 3rd Rd picks. Instead they took Andy's 16th ranked running back (J. McKinnon). I read that McKinnon put up great numbers at the combine. IMO, that is no reason to select him over a guy like Desir. We needed secondary help badly. By the time we picked again, Desir was gone. Vikes did pick up Stanford guard David Yankey, which was a good pick up.

Jared, were you the one on the chat board that was calling for Tiny Richardson? The Vikes signed him.

Note: For those who don't know, I mentioned Andy. Andy is this forum's draft expert. He posted his draft guide in the Draft/Free Agency section. If you want to learn more about the guys you picked up including the UDFAs, check out Andy's guide (70+ pages, I think). He is better than Kiper, Mayock, and the others, IMO.

 

You got a good back in McKinnon. Will be a nice complement to AP.

[John Waylon]

Kipper gives us the same grade I give his haircut.

What a coincidence!

[NFLfan]

You got a good back in McKinnon. Will be a nice complement to AP.

Thanks. That is what I read, but I really wanted Desir. He would have filled a greater need. Overall I thought the Vikings did well. While Mel Kiper did not give us a D, I read that he did not exactly like our draft much. I wonder whose draft he did like.

[NewColtsFan]

These people have no business evaluating a draft if they haven't heard of Jack Mewhort (a starting tackle for a major conference program that just won 24 games in a row), Jonathan Newsome (not a notable prospect, but all you had to do was watch the Combine to be even somewhat familiar with him), and Andrew Jackson (I'm just a guy on the Internet, but I started watching ILB prospects in January and am very familiar with Jackson).

 

I'm not sure it's just that they weren't familiar with the players. I think the issue is that we didn't draft the players at the positions that people thought we needed most. People thought we should draft a safety (very understandable, and I felt the same) and a center (kind of silly, IMO, but a popular opinion). We did neither. Makes it a bad draft in their eyes.

 

And that's really the folly of looking at a team's roster and talking about the needs they might have, then projecting their draft based on those needs. Drafting a rookie at a particular position doesn't mean that you no longer have a need at that position. Even a first rounder. The Browns needed a QB; are we willing to say that they no longer have a need? Draft picks have to prove themselves before needs are filled, because football isn't played on paper.

 

Agreed.....    this probably wasn't one of my better worded posts....

 

But yes,  we didn't take players at positions that the experts thought...  we didn't address the problems that we're perceived to have....

 

As for the Browns....    as you noted, we won't know if they have a need until they prove themselves,  but at least they committed to filling an important position of need.    They spent the capital.

 

It could be argued we could've taken FS Brooks at 59, and a guard like Trai Turner at 90.      That would've addressed safety and guard.     We would not have Moncrief,  but that could be addressed next March in FA or at the next draft.    There are all sorts of ways to look at this.

[Gavin]

D+ is a bit extreme I think, Our draft certainly wasn't flashy with the possible exception of the Moncrief pick, But we got a solid O Linemen that can play all 5 spots on the O Line in a pinch(Though I would have went for the more agile Gabe Jackson)....Though he is no LT in the NFL, We added a pass rusher....a pure pass rusher....Not an every down OLB early on his career, lacks strength and play recognition skills but he is agile and has speed., We added a 2 Down ILB in Jackson. I would have used the Ulrich pick on a Safety though, There was several still available that either would have been a steal or had a better chance to make the roster:

 

I give it a C....I see the potential that we came away with POSSIBLY two FUTURE starters...Moncrief and Mewhort

[dgambill]

No team is going to field 22 pro bowlers. You are going to have weaknesses and strengths. If the player we needed wasn't there we have to move on to someone else that can help. Would you rather take a safety or center that is marginal at best or take a good rt or de? At some point you just have to roll with what you have instead of loading up with guys that fit a position of need...but won't really help your ball club. At least now we perhaps upgraded some positions or got good depth. Going in we knew we only had a few picks...thats fair to criticize Griggs for...after all I think great RBs were available in rd 2 and 3 that could be just as productive as Trent and we had some really good safety's on the board where we would draft in Rd 1....but what he did where he was at...until they play I'm saying it was a solid job. I like the kid out of OSU...think he will be a big help on our OL. Fair to say Thomas may never be the same after two career threatening injuries....so I'm happy with that pick.

[thedude]

Makes me love this draft that much more.

Revisit that thought two years from now.

[HGRekks]

It was bad because there were guys in rounds 5-7 who fell 2 or more rounds that were great value that grigson didn't pick up. We could of got Skov instead of Jackson, "Tiny Richardson" instead of Uldrick John if you really wanted another Lineman, and there were better DE's than Newsome left and Newsome probably wasn't going to be drafted. Yes, the first two picks I really liked, however, they are "future" starters as you said. We shouldn't be drafting like the 49ers for depth when we aren't as good and have less picks. 

You do realize that those guys fell for a reason, right? If 32 two teams had multiple chances to take such great value, why did no one do it? When 32 teams decided not to take a player like Tiny Richardson or Skov throughout the course of 256 picks, it is very possible that it was the fans and the media scouts who had it wrong, not necessarily the GMs.

[Gavin]

You do realize that those guys fell for a reason, right? If 32 two teams had multiple chances to take such great value, why did no one do it? When 32 teams decided not to take a player like Tiny Richardson or Skov throughout the course of 256 picks, it is very possible that it was the fans and the media scouts who had it wrong, not necessarily the GMs.

Undoubtedly several players fell for various reasons, Many I think injuries that fans and media dont know about or other health concerns

[Cynjin]

The people that "love" this draft must have rose-colored glasses on. Now I will hold off a year or 2 before "grading it" but don't expect good grades from analysts this week. 

 

I personally think we had one of the worst drafts this year. I was in shock of the picks that we made, except for Moncrief. But we don't even need a WR, like at all. We do however need CB/S (depth at least). I'm scared of our secondary, they have been ignored all offseason(except for re-signing Vontae) and it's going to come back to bite us.

 

I'm about ready for a new GM or at least new draft scouts because these guys have been TERRIBLE in early rounds the past 2 years. Late round picks are fine with me this year, look like they have great potential but really think drafting a CB or a safety could've made this draft look a lot better. We are not the 49ers, we can't just draft BPA everytime without addressing some key needs on this football team. 

 

What happened to holding off a year or two?  People that love this draft may have on rose colored glasses, but those that hate this draft think a lot more of their eye for talent than the should or have any right too.

[NewColtsFan]

You do realize that those guys fell for a reason, right? If 32 two teams had multiple chances to take such great value, why did no one do it? When 32 teams decided not to take a player like Tiny Richardson or Skov throughout the course of 256 picks, it is very possible that it was the fans and the media scouts who had it wrong, not necessarily the GMs.

 

Those guys didn't fall for performance and talent.

 

They fell because of other reasons....   Richardson I'd guess failed a drug test or other character issues.

 

Skov, failed the physical for teams.    Has a terrible knee.    Doesn't mean he won't be a good free agent,  but that's why he fell.

 

That's why a lot of so-called name players aren't drafted.    Issues that the media never (or rarely) knows about.

[Defjamz26]

Like I said in another topic, the only pick I can see people being upset with is Mewhort when Nix was on the board still, but I understand why they passed. But you can't really complain on the rest of the draft. Moncrief was BPA where we picked at.

 

We passed on Safety's and CB's because there weren't any good ones left at our picks. There were 4 really good safety's in the draft, and they all went in the first round. It was the same thing with CB's. It wasn't a deep class. And all the good ones went in the first round. Grigson didn't reach on anyone which was good.

[HGRekks]

Those guys didn't fall for performance and talent.

 

They fell because of other reasons....   Richardson I'd guess failed a drug test or other character issues.

 

Skov, failed the physical for teams.    Has a terrible knee.    Doesn't mean he won't be a good free agent,  but that's why he fell.

 

That's why a lot of so-called name players aren't drafted.    Issues that the media never (or rarely) knows about.

I said nothing contrary to this. I don't presume to know, however.

 

Where do you get Richardson failed a drug test or has character issues? His tape is one of a massive underachiever who does not appear to know what to do with his hands. He certainly had a ton of upside, but drug test and character issues sound very presumptive. 

[Gavin]

Like I said in another topic, the only pick I can see people being upset with is Mewhort when Nix was on the board still, but I understand why they passed. But you can't really complain on the rest of the draft. Moncrief was BPA where we picked at.

 

We passed on Safety's and CB's because there weren't any good ones left at our picks. There were 4 really good safety's in the draft, and they all went in the first round. It was the same thing with CB's. It wasn't a deep class. And all the good ones went in the first round. Grigson didn't reach on anyone which was good.

There was alot of people better then Nix(Whos a 330+ pound laundry list of injuries) available....Including Mewhort....Some people act as if Nix is/was the second coming of Ngata or Poe or Lotuleilei