Kiper gives Colts draft grade D +

[Burls' Kid's]

That is a disappointing comment.

 

 

I'm sorry, but i was seriously let down by these turn of events. I'm excited by our U.D.F.A.'S though. We nailed some good guys there.

[Adonai]

To add to that drama, I think you guys know Mel is a Baltimore guy. I think the pick he was talking about was Trev Alberts over Dilfer. If you look back at it Alberts...

 

No, not really. Kiper said specifically that the problem was the Colts went with Harbaugh instead of Dilfer. That is the context of his problem with Tobin. He didn't care so much about Alberts - he wanted the Colts to take Dilfer.

 

And I'm sorry but it was anything but a wash. Harbaugh was a beast of a competitor and more often than not made chicken salad out of chicken yeah. Whereas Dilfer did nothing in his career save ride the coat-tails of one of the best defenses in league history. I think the term "game-Manager" started as a polite way to describe Trent Dilfer. And he ended up throwing as many interceptions in his career as Harbaugh had TDs.

 

Kiper said Dilfer was a franchise QB.

He was then and perpetually is today wrong.

 

 

Quick questions to anyone because I do not know - did Trent Dilfer ever make the Pro-Bowl?

[TKnight24]

Your point is true in our last playoff game last year. But don't think for a second that New England couldn't have passed on us at will if they really wanted to. They simply went with and stuck with what was working...to their credit.

Kansas City's Alex Smith carved up our secondary pretty good in the AFC Wildcard game the week before and our secondary gave up big plays all season long last year (especially when Toler went down)... so don't delude yourself too much. But hey...keep sipping that apple juice and hoping that our secondary problems will magically just go away.

Greg Toler was injured, Mark Sanchez & Blaine Gabbert could've picked Toler apart the way he was limping. Bad coaches decision to play him

But like we all saw week 7 vs Denver. When healthy, that secondary is top 10. It wasn't until the injury bug beat the Colts (as he usually does) that Denver started scoring

We stopped the most historical offense in NFL history, so I know we can stop anybody. Injuries just hate us. And the 1st Kansas city game we strapped them too. Like I said, injuries caught up. There's only 2 teams with enough depth to have the injuries we had & still get to their conference championship game & that's Seattle & San Francisco

You all sit back & talk about depth & say Seattle & San Francisco are so great but forget to realize they've been bottom feeding the last 6+ years. It's easy to get depth & top talent when you're picking top 10 in the draft consistently. Unless you're the Jags cause they just suck.

But point being, the 49ers & Seahawks took TIME to get to the talent their at. You all are too impatient, that's the problem. You can't build dynastys & championship teams overnight. Just doesn't happen.

2-14 2 years ago, we're not even supposed to be above 8-8 right now but we are with 2 playoff appearances. Some of you really need to slap yourselves & realize how truly blessed you are to be a fan of a team that turned it around all in ONE off-season when people had us only winning 3 games the year luck was drafted. We could easily be like the Browns or Jags and just have disappointing year after disappointing year.

But no, no one appreciates anything anymore these days. People are too ungrateful, just never satisfied with what they have. Always looking at what they don't have

*Drops Mic*

[lennymoore24]

I would say the Colts won that one.  Harbaugh + Alberts>Dilfer.  Dilfer was a terrible NFL QB who happened to be on a team with one of the great defenses.  Rex Grossman would have won that game if he were on the Ravens.

[YOUR GM]

Welcome to year 3 of a rebuilding team. And we have people already wanting to behead Grigson. You guys should be ashamed to call yourself fans. Should of followed peyton manning if you wasn't willing to go through a rebuild. Even with only 5 picks... I think we out drafted some teams like.... The panthers, browns, pats, and broncos.

I don't agree with the sentiment that Grigson should be fired, but people really need to stop saying this now. Most coaches don't even get 3 years to try to rebuild if they're failing. That being said, we're not rebuilding at this point. We've made the playoffs 2 years in a row, and he's had 2 off-seasons to spend as much as he wants, trade whoever and whatever he wants and draft whoever he wants. At this point, this is Grigson's team, from the best player to the worse. Anything he does or doesn't address can no longer be given pardence because of the "rebuild" excuse anymore

[Superman]

Still haven't drafted a CB last 3 years

This is what sticks out to me. The only DB Grigson has drafted at all in yhree years was Boyett. I'm wondering why his evaluation of DBs leads him away from them on draft day.

[throwing BBZ]

I understand most people won't just have a basic conversation just due to the stupidity of some people. I was just making a case and I probably shouldn't of typed the part of almost being done with Grigson, I'm just frustrated at some of the picks is all.

 

The value just doesn't look good(on paper). Who knows? Mewhort may have been the next OL on everyones board when he took him. It actually sounds like the Seahawks may have wanted Mewhort since they took an OL right after us and Pete Carroll said something about missing on their guy and grabbing the next OL on board. I will wait and see how the draft class looks post-season but right now I'm not very impressed due to some major holes not being filled.

 

However I am not a GM nor even a scout in the NFL, so in no way am I saying that I know more than our draft staff does. I just don't want this regime to miss opportunities like we did with Peyton.

 

 We have NO Major holes to fill. 

[DougDew]

Heading into the offseason, the colts needed to upgrade the front 7, and add depth to OL, WR, and the secondary. The colts also needed more pass rush.

Upgrading the front 7 means you REPLACE starters. Improving depth means you add backups.

Grigs signed Art Jones and DQ to START. He further upgraded the front 7 by drafting the thumper ILB the Colts have never had, and a situational pass rusher.

He drafted OL to backup LG and OT, (an upgrade to Link and Reitz) and to start when Thomas or Cherilus move on. He drafted immediate WR depth and future starter, possibly a number 1.

The absence of Bethea created questions at S. Considering that Grigs has assessed the colts other weaknesses and has filled them properly, I believe him when he says that there were no safeties available that were better than what is on the roster.

With Davis, Toler, Butler, and Gordy...the talent level at CB is just fine. Depth for injuries, i.e., a NUMBER 5 corner, still needs to be found. The June 1st cut pool seems likely.

A D+ just fails to understand the Colts needs going into the draft, and how most of them have been filled after the draft. And that the 2nd, 3rd, and 6th rounders, and probably the 5th, were decent value.

[Adonai]

Your point is true in our last playoff game last year.  But don't think for a second that New England couldn't have passed on us at will if they really wanted to.  They simply went with and stuck with what was working...to their credit. 

 

 

Same response to TKnight..applies here.  See my last post above.

 

So your perspective is that the Patriots chose to go the more difficult route and run on us instead of pass?

 

You were wrong in the implication of your original statement. Our secondary was not our problem against the Patriots.

 

Now, it may well be the route they choose to go if they even make it back to the playoffs this year. But that will be because of the moves that Grigson has made to the Defensive line and Linebacking corps over the last two years.

[CR91]

i wish I can have mayock or kipers job where I only work 4 months a year and pretend to sound like an expert

[Adonai]

This is what sticks out to me. The only DB Grigson has drafted at all in yhree years was Boyett. I'm wondering why his evaluation of DBs leads him away from them on draft day.

 

Maybe the type of DBs we need are only going to be around in the higher parts of round 1 and 2. So it would be preferable to add them via Free Agency. Or maybe he doesn't consider the position to be of equal importance as the line or LBs.

[Adonai]

i wish I can have mayock or kipers job where I only work 4 months a year and pretend to sound like an expert

 

Mayock does more than sound like an expert, he is one. Kiper on the other hand has a lot of the skill set needed to analyze talent but he has no insight into the sort of real considerations that go on inside of NFL personnel offices.

[TKnight24]

Maybe the type of DBs we need are only going to be around in the higher parts of round 1 and 2. So it would be preferable to add them via Free Agency. Or maybe he doesn't consider the position to be of equal importance as the line or LBs.

Your last sentence is $$$$$$$$

Win the trenches & the backend can do it's job better

Rams are living proof of it. Janoris Jenkins shut down Larry Fitzgerald his rookie year cause Chris Long & Quinn had the cardinals QB in dead fear. I'll never forget that game. Never in my 19 years have I seen a rookie shutdown a top WR like Fitzgerald before

[BlueCollarColts]

Look out for Jonathan Newsome too, if Werner works out, Newsome and Werner will be our future OLB's.

[Yoshinator]

The problem I have with Grigson is he can't adapt to the later rounds of the draft. When solid players fall to 5th round and beyond that should of went 2 rounds earlier, you should be able to adapt and take them if you are going BPA. Grigson would rather take someone on his board that's a late rounder than a guy like "Tiny" Richardson who took a major free fall. You could of got a second round ability guy who was probably as good as Mewhort, instead you take a Guard who would of went undrafted. Grigson has a bad habit of this, and it's why he does bad in the later rounds. Josh Chapman was the exception.

[Adonai]

Your last sentence is $$$$$$$$

Win the trenches & the backend can do it's job better

Rams are living proof of it. Janoris Jenkins shut down Larry Fitzgerald his rookie year cause Chris Long & Quinn had the cardinals QB in dead fear. I'll never forget that game. Never in my 19 years have I seen a rookie shutdown a top WR like Fitzgerald before

 

Pressure up front certainly does translate into better play from the secondary. I don't understand why some fail to acknowledge/honor that truism.

 

But I think this draft showed that the kind of "Safety" talent available was in the higher ends of rounds 1 and 2. Therefore we did not get one.

[Nobody]

Can't we just let everyone have their own opinions? Stop saying people not in love with the draft aren't real fans.

Personally, I've come to really like this draft. I believe we have three future starters (Mewhort at LG, Moncrief at WR, Jackson at ILB) a player who can contribute in Newsome, and a player with great potential in Ulrick.

Yes, I see Jackson as a future starter at ILB next to McNary if all goes well!

[chad72]

Game 1 vs Broncos, we will find out how well our safeties do, its going to be as good a test as it can be.

[TKnight24]

Can't we just let everyone have their own opinions? Stop saying people not in love with the draft aren't real fans.

Personally, I've come to really like this draft. I believe we have three future starters (Mewhort at LG, Moncrief at WR, Jackson at ILB) a player who can contribute in Newsome, and a player with great potential in Ulrick.

Yes, I see Jackson as a future starter at ILB next to McNary if all goes well!

What about Freeman?

[Mitch]

How has our secondary been ignored? We have the same exact cornerback group as last year, except a healthy Toler, and everyone in the Colts organization knew Delano Howell would be the starting safety, but for some reason people on this board struggle to see that, and I can't wait to see him prove all of you wrong. The only problem is safety depth, and how us not in Grigson's opinion, reaching for safety depth, makes this an awful draft.

We lost Bethea, which is a pretty big part of the secondary if you ask me. Sure he wasn't him old self but he was still an iron man. Never got hurt, man was a beast but I was one that advocated getting rid of him due to him being older and slowed down. Toler...healthy? He's still recovering from his injury and you'd be kidding yourself if you bet against him being injured at some point this year. Landry, well I can only hope he learns to tackle and stays healthy the entire year. I liked the signing when we got him, time for him to show he was worth the money. I just know our secondary is always plagued by injuries(as well as most of the team) so I would like better depth behind the ones that are starting(Davis/Toler/Butler). 

 

I hope you are right about Howell. He gets his chance to start the year, I hope he takes full advantage of it. He has some big shoes to fill in Bethea's spot but Grigs and Co feel confident about him. 

 

However, let me say I've been impressed by the UDFA signings. Qua Cox looks like a steal, Jerrell Freeman certainly seemed happy about it.

[BigQandTheManiac]

to me other than o line...we didn't address any needs....i'm really worried about our secondary and we start the season against peyton too....i'm not gonna say the draft was bad cause idk how it will play out but drafting two linebackers...when you have mathis...walden..freeman..jackson..mcnary..adongo..werner...makes no sense to me....seems like a lot of fans on here gets soo upset when someone doesn't agree with what Grigson does...i like him but it's not against the rules to disagree with some of the things he do especially after last year's draft....most of the players we drafted aren't even on the team now.....

[Smonroe]

No, our draft this year is complete GARBAGE (outside of the Mewhort pick) . He couldn't have done worse, if he tried. Seriously disappointed. Our rival's got stronger, and we got a solid guard. Luck better have some magic...cause we're gonna need it. We have LUCK, so there's always a chance, but i hoped for more than just counting on luck to save the day.

Must be nice to be so sure about the future.

[Coltsman1788]

So your perspective is that the Patriots chose to go the more difficult route and run on us instead of pass?

 

You were wrong in the implication of your original statement. Our secondary was not our problem against the Patriots.

 

Now, it may well be the route they choose to go if they even make it back to the playoffs this year. But that will be because of the moves that Grigson has made to the Defensive line and Linebacking corps over the last two years.

How was it a more difficult route for them to run on us? They were running for over 200 yards, they saw how easy it was to push us around and stuck with it.  If Brady wanted to pass more on us I am pretty sure he still could have.  But why go against what is working particularly if you can kill clock and lessen the time Luck has with the ball in his hand?  I think you are focusing too much on one game.  Each game is different and Belicheck had the game plan in place that was called for.  If Brady needed to move the ball against us in the air to win, I don't think he would have had any problem doing so...its just that the flow of the game didn't require that they take that approach.

 

I mentioned Brady and Manning in general because they are the QB's of the two teams that we need to surpass to get to the Super Bowl.  I did not say that in the AFC Divisional game last year the secondary was why we lost. Notice that I mentioned Peyton in my initial post as well and we didn't even face the Broncos in the post season last year.  TKnight24 just surmised that was what I was saying and you decided to roll with it.  The point that I was trying to make was that our secondary is not improved enough in my opinion to enable us to get by those teams with those two quarterbacks who are more than capable of exploiting our weaknesses there.

 

You also can't look past our secondary's poor showing in our wildcard win against KC and how shaky we looked in the regular season when injuries hit because those are symptoms of the problems that exist.

 

 I'd actually prefer that you and TKnight both be proven to be right and that our secondary is fine.  But right now I still see it as a weakness that will be exploited and I am not as confident in our prospects of getting by Denver or New England in the post season. 

[lennymoore24]

I wish Mel Kiper and Brad Wells would get married, move to some small island, and never talk about football again.

[The Old Crow]

No, not really. Kiper said specifically that the problem was the Colts went with Harbaugh instead of Dilfer. That is the context of his problem with Tobin. He didn't care so much about Alberts - he wanted the Colts to take Dilfer.

 

And I'm sorry but it was anything but a wash. Harbaugh was a beast of a competitor and more often than not made chicken salad out of chicken yeah. Whereas Dilfer did nothing in his career save ride the coat-tails of one of the best defenses in league history. I think the term "game-Manager" started as a polite way to describe Trent Dilfer. And he ended up throwing as many interceptions in his career as Harbaugh had TDs.

 

Kiper said Dilfer was a franchise QB.

He was then and perpetually is today wrong.

 

 

Quick questions to anyone because I do not know - did Trent Dilfer ever make the Pro-Bowl?

Both Harbaugh and Dilfer had one Pro Bowl selection apiece. Harbaugh had a slightly better QB rating than Dilfer at 77 to 70. However to me, Super Bowl win trumps a few career percentage points. Even though that Ravens defense was historic , it was also good the next year, but Elvis Getbac failed miserably with a comparable defense.

[Smonroe]

Can't we just let everyone have their own opinions? Stop saying people not in love with the draft aren't real fans.

Personally, I've come to really like this draft. I believe we have three future starters (Mewhort at LG, Moncrief at WR, Jackson at ILB) a player who can contribute in Newsome, and a player with great potential in Ulrick.

Yes, I see Jackson as a future starter at ILB next to McNary if all goes well!

Everyone can have their own opinions. It's when they state them as facts and act like they know better than a professional scouting department, that's when I get defensive or sarcastic.

I like hearing informed opinions, like why someone would have been a better fit, etc. However bold statements like "this draft was garbage" and we should dump Grigs, without any logic behind them are ridiculous IMHO.

I guess it would be better to just ignore them.

[Adonai]

How was it a more difficult route for them to run on us?

 

If our secondary was so bad - implied worse than our front and LBs - then their choosing to run on us would've been the more difficult choice, correct?

[NewEra]

Good, that means we're not picking the flavor if the month. Espn is crap. They're are so biased it's ridiculous. They hype someone up so much and they fail most if the time "Jamarcus Russell " anyone. They're as bad as out joke of news media outlets.

[MAC]

I didn't read Kiper's comments, but any draft in which you don't have a first and a fourth is doing to be deficient compared to other teams right off the bat. It's going to whack your "grade". Thus my anger at the Richardson trade in the first place - any problems with this draft are directly related to an evident "sell the future to win now" philosophy that occasional creeps in (I'd say from Irsay) and creeps me out.

 

That being said, a second round quality O-lineman (assuming that's what he is - who am I to judge) and a bargain WR in a deep WR draft seem about perfect to me. The primary reason that I was angry at the Richardson trade in the first place was being it seemed obvious to me that the first rounder was going to be used to draft Reggie's replacement. If they managed to accomplish that with a third rounder, more power to them. We shall see. The point is that in contrast to a common theme on here, I think that WR is an enormous position of (long-term) need, and it's very hard to fill well outside the top of the draft.

 

 

[Adonai]

However to me, Super Bowl win trumps a few career percentage points.

 

Of course it does when the Quarterback played for the Ravens instead of the Colts. At least you did not try to strain credulity further by priming that Kiper was correct in thinking Dilfer could possibly be a "franchise QB".

 

But I do appreciate you acknowledging that Harbaugh was in point of fact, the better Quarterback. Even if it was whispered as an afterthought.

[The Old Crow]

I would say the Colts won that one.  Harbaugh + Alberts>Dilfer.  Dilfer was a terrible NFL QB who happened to be on a team with one of the great defenses.  Rex Grossman would have won that game if he were on the Ravens.

I would take Dilfer over those two, but that's just me. That being said, Had the Colts drafted Dilfer like Kiper said, he would have dome similar to what he did in Tampa. My only regret with Dilfer is that Billick and Newsome didn't give him a chance to repeat.

[wordofmouth]

Sooooo scouting players from the Canadian football league isn't expanded horizons?

I don't even think Canada likes the US yet we're getting players from there

How about getting a guy from Kenya!

[GoColts8818]

I want to see these guys at least play a game before I declare my love or hate for this draft class.

[Coltsman1788]

Greg Toler was injured, Mark Sanchez & Blaine Gabbert could've picked Toler apart the way he was limping. Bad coaches decision to play him

But like we all saw week 7 vs Denver. When healthy, that secondary is top 10. It wasn't until the injury bug beat the Colts (as he usually does) that Denver started scoring

We stopped the most historical offense in NFL history, so I know we can stop anybody. Injuries just hate us. And the 1st Kansas city game we strapped them too. Like I said, injuries caught up. There's only 2 teams with enough depth to have the injuries we had & still get to their conference championship game & that's Seattle & San Francisco

You all sit back & talk about depth & say Seattle & San Francisco are so great but forget to realize they've been bottom feeding the last 6+ years. It's easy to get depth & top talent when you're picking top 10 in the draft consistently. Unless you're the Jags cause they just suck.

But point being, the 49ers & Seahawks took TIME to get to the talent their at. You all are too impatient, that's the problem. You can't build dynastys & championship teams overnight. Just doesn't happen.

2-14 2 years ago, we're not even supposed to be above 8-8 right now but we are with 2 playoff appearances. Some of you really need to slap yourselves & realize how truly blessed you are to be a fan of a team that turned it around all in ONE off-season when people had us only winning 3 games the year luck was drafted. We could easily be like the Browns or Jags and just have disappointing year after disappointing year.

But no, no one appreciates anything anymore these days. People are too ungrateful, just never satisfied with what they have. Always looking at what they don't have

*Drops Mic*

First off it is not about being "ungrateful". Please...I  have seen some truly lousy Colts teams back in the 80's.  I was still repping the Colts and getting joked on in school.  So I KNOW about struggling and loyalty and sticking with the Shoe when no one understands why you even root for a so called "loser".  Yes, we are blessed that the Luck-era rebuild has gone as well as it has so quickly...but it is about getting over the next hump and on to the next level.  Not just resting on laurels...its about getting better and actually winning the Super Bowl because we have the opportunity NOW to do so.  Which is why when blatant weaknesses are not sufficiently addressed it hurts all the more.  We should have all learned from the Manning era that our chances are finite and that we must make every effort to cash in on our opportunities.  That is not being "ungrateful" its called being a fan of a team so much that you don't just applaud every move they make but call into question areas where they need to get better in order for the team to fulfill its true potential.

 

All that said you are correct about how injuries really hampered us in the secondary last year, which only goes to reinforce the argument that we needed to do more in that area.  Do you honestly expect Toler and Landry to remain healthy for a full season?  Do you really believe we are better back there minus Bethea and with essentially the same cast as last year?  I just don't see it but would love to see the Colts prove differently. 

[Flash7]

FYI-I'm not trying to be negative. I am just puzzled with the draft.

 

Did we UPGRADE the O-line? I'm not sure. It seems that we added versatile linemen, but no one that's a specialist. Instead, we added guys that can play multiple positions, for depth. I guess it's a difference in philosophy, because I would like linemen that excel at their specific position.

 

Moncrief- He's a good receiver with a lot of potential. He's a big bodied guy with good but not great hands. Sounds exactly like Rogers, who was already on our roster. Both guys are oozing with potential, but I don't see this as an upgrade, just a wasted opportunity to address the defense that finished amongst the bottom of the league. I get why we drafted him, because he was the best available player.

 

Overall, I'll take the wait and see attitude, but if I had to give a grade right now, it would be a low grade--and that's okay to say. We don't have to like everything that Grigson does, but we can hope for the best.

[The Old Crow]

Of course it does when the Quarterback played for the Ravens instead of the Colts. At least you did not try to strain credulity even further by priming that Kiper was correct in thinking Dilfer could possibly be a "franchise QB".

 

But I do appreciate you acknowledging that Harbaugh was in point of fact, the better Quarterback. Even if it was whispered as an afterthought.

Actually, I really like Jim Harbaugh. He was a great scrappy quarterback , who got the most of his abilities. He also won when the Colts weren't that good. Jim just wasn't a franchise quarterback, and either was Dilfer. Sure I like Trent a little better because of the Ravens connection, but I also like my head coaches younger brother.

Whether you thought either Tobin or Kiper was right, there was only a slight difference. This wasn't like Elway being traded or something like that.

[TKnight24]

How about getting a guy from Kenya!

Nah, that's not thinking outside the area code enough

Our next CB is gonna be from mars

7 feet tall with 8 arms & 6 eyeballs

Dude is guaranteed to shutdown every WR he faces. Go sign him Grigson!!!

[Coltsman1788]

If our secondary was so bad - implied worse than our front and LBs - then their choosing to run on us would've been the more difficult choice, correct?

It's not that our secondary wasn't bad it's just that Belicheck knew they had a big advantage against our front seven and decided to exploit that because they could control the game flow better and limit Luck's touches.  They didn't want to get into a shooting match with Andrew Luck so it was more strategic than anything.   Is that something that we should be proud of?  At least Grigs attempted to address our front seven but the secondary went virtually unaddressed looks to be the same or worse than last year.  Hence, imo we likely aren't getting any further in the playoffs past NE or Denver who have both fortified themselves significantly on both sides of the ball.

[Adonai]

Actually, I really like Jim Harbaugh.

 

Of course.

[BlueCollarColts]

Can't we just let everyone have their own opinions? Stop saying people not in love with the draft aren't real fans.

Personally, I've come to really like this draft. I believe we have three future starters (Mewhort at LG, Moncrief at WR, Jackson at ILB) a player who can contribute in Newsome, and a player with great potential in Ulrick.

Yes, I see Jackson as a future starter at ILB next to McNary if all goes well!

Don't count out Newsome either! If he develops right that man is a future starter as well