Luck's Shoulder

[Steamboat_Shaun]

24 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

Except, they didn't say from the get go they had a plan in place. They said it 3 days before the start of the regular season.  The get go would have been day 1 of camp, and it would have easily erased much of the questions the Colts are getting.   But, the Colts wait until he starts missing practices before they say anything and then wonder why people are questioning them.  The same team who hid things about Lucks condition last year. And Holder up until now has acted as if this was a non issue so i don't believe him wanting there to be more to it is an accurate statement.

 

The plan was for the regular season. No need to have a plan in place for TC since he's not playing 4 quarters of football each week between practice sessions. If he misses practice tomorrow, commence to freaking out, as I will be as well.

 

Otherwise, I'm just gonna stick to the process and keep chopping wood.

[jameszeigler834]

But with all of that said right now I'm not concerned yet.

[GoDeep]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

No. They've said this is the plan for Luck, almost word for word. 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/9/8/12851954/ryan-grigson-denies-report-that-andrew-luck-has-labrum-fraying-says-limitation-is-part-of-plan-colts

 

"...We have a plan that we think's best for him, and one he feels good about, and that's what we're doing... "

 

"That's another thing where people don't have a league-wide perspective on how the league works a lot of times. I mean, it's no different from other quarterbacks in the league that say they're limited and they get rest just like Robert Mathis gets rest or other players.  You just want guys fresh going into the season, and he's in a new chapter, really, in this organization and on this team, and you just want the guy to be fresh for Sunday."

 

He's going to be limited or even not participate in practice some days this year. Are we going to assume that there's something wrong every week?

Of course.  @Superman, you are not new around here.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

51 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He feels like the Colts aren't being transparent about this, when in reality, they said from the get-go that they had a plan in place, and they're sticking to it. He wants there to be more to it because his job is to break stories.

They're not being transparent if he's still injured at all or having difficulties with his shoulder

 

I recall multiple times everyone from Luck to Irsay coming out and saying Luck is 100% healthy. 0 issues. All this crap suggests otherwise. We'll wait to see what happens but I just have no trust in what an NFL team says when I comes to it's injuries. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

They're not being transparent if he's still injured at all or having difficulties with his shoulder

 

I recall multiple times everyone from Luck to Irsay coming out and saying Luck is 100% healthy. 0 issues. All this crap suggests otherwise. We'll wait to see what happens but I just have no trust in what an NFL team says when I comes to it's injuries. 

 

What makes you so sure it's "crap?" It could be just as simple as he's sitting out practice with a sore shoulder.

[The Fish]

I could be wrong but this issue was sprug out of the blue? No one was talking about Luck being anything other than a full go in camp, right?

If I had to guess he's probably re-aggravated the prior injury in his shoulder. The Colts don't need to say anything. Just look at what they do. If he's out there Sunday he's good enough to go. Why it's a question of if is odd.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

21 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

If he looks like crap again this week then I would say yes there might be a problem but I think the off target passes were Denvers defense ore than anything. Also the pick 6 play wasn't an off target pass it was a great play by Talib it was going to go right to Hilton but Talib jumped in front of Hilton to make the play nobody's fault.

 

That was Dorsett the ball was going to, and it was high and kind of outside.... if that ball was thrown lower and towards the middle of the field, no way does Talib make that play.

 

Talib did make a heck of a play, I'll give him that -- and Dorsett could/should have come back on the ball instead of standing there flat-footed and waiting, but the throw was higher than it needed to be.

[Dudley Smith]

1 hour ago, superrep1967 said:

 His throws could be high because he's trying to keep from getting balls batted down. 

 

Could be. In another thread someone claimed he got a lot of batted balls because he crouches down when he throws the ball -- trying to "hide" himself. I am not sure if that is the case, but I suppose you can't blame him given the punishment he's received due to our OL (or lack thereof).

[BullsColtsFan1]

I am not overally concerned yet but you have to wonder.  If the Colts lose against the Chargers and are 0-3 maybe 2-4 1-5 after the Houston Game, is it worth risking having him out there the rest of the year?  I will be much more concerned if he misses a game.  You could tell that shoulder issue bothered him VS Buffalo, New York and Tennessee last year imo.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

28 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

What makes you so sure it's "crap?" It could be just as simple as he's sitting out practice with a sore shoulder.

100% healthy, injury free to missing practice with soreness in an area that had a bad injury. Stuff like that 

[NewColtsFan]

 

I think it's likely,  perhaps even highly likely,  that for the rest of Luck's career you're going to see him rated as Limited Practice on Wednesdays due to this shoulder.      That's one of the things the Colts want to do to protect him.       And from time to time,  after an especially hard hitting game as Sunday was,   Luck will take the entire Wednesday practice off and just observe.

 

Luck doesn't seem to be worried about it.........    at least not publicly.     The Colts don't seem to be worried about it.....    at least not publicly.

 

But this is probably going to be our "new normal".....

 

 

[Larry Horseman]

 

37 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

They're not being transparent if he's still injured at all or having difficulties with his shoulder

 

I recall multiple times everyone from Luck to Irsay coming out and saying Luck is 100% healthy. 0 issues. All this crap suggests otherwise. We'll wait to see what happens but I just have no trust in what an NFL team says when I comes to it's injuries. 

 

I don't know what you really expect? The Colts literally posted a story about him missing practice b/c of a sore shoulder: http://www.colts.com/news/article-notebook/Right-Shoulder-Soreness-Keeps-Andrew-Luck-Out-Of-Wednesday’s-Practice/69dc77da-4804-4306-8577-61e5cbf550b1

 

Andrew Luck on why he did not attend Wednesday’s practice:
 

“Sore from the game.

“It was a physical game, like any football game really, so the training staff and coaches decided it was best if I didn’t go out today and just worked in the training room.”

 

How much more transparent, etc. do you want them to be? It is what it is--perhaps there are some lingering issues. Perhaps they are being overly cautious. As long as he plays and plays well, I don't really care. 

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

 His throws could be high because he's trying to keep from getting balls batted down. 

And boy does he ever get them batted down.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

30 minutes ago, Larry Horseman said:

 

 

I don't know what you really expect? The Colts literally posted a story about him missing practice b/c of a sore shoulder: http://www.colts.com/news/article-notebook/Right-Shoulder-Soreness-Keeps-Andrew-Luck-Out-Of-Wednesday’s-Practice/69dc77da-4804-4306-8577-61e5cbf550b1

 

Andrew Luck on why he did not attend Wednesday’s practice:
 

“Sore from the game.

“It was a physical game, like any football game really, so the training staff and coaches decided it was best if I didn’t go out today and just worked in the training room.”

 

How much more transparent, etc. do you want them to be? It is what it is--perhaps there are some lingering issues. Perhaps they are being overly cautious. As long as he plays and plays well, I don't really care. 

There's a difference between being sore from the previous game and having a lingering injury 

 

But like you, I don't care. Football is just entertainment and I personally dont care about the players, staff, etc. 

[Indyfan4life]

Hilton sat out today with a "knee issue", but further reports on it state this will be a weekly thing for him as well. Where is the speculation he's actually injured at? Some people try to read between the lines WAY too much. 

[The Fish]

I think Colts fans have every reason to read between the lines, given that this type of thing has turned up to be bad news in the past with both Luck and the Peyton parting drama.

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

And boy does he ever get them batted down.

I know more than I've ever seen.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

No. They've said this is the plan for Luck, almost word for word. 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/9/8/12851954/ryan-grigson-denies-report-that-andrew-luck-has-labrum-fraying-says-limitation-is-part-of-plan-colts

 

"...We have a plan that we think's best for him, and one he feels good about, and that's what we're doing... "

 

"That's another thing where people don't have a league-wide perspective on how the league works a lot of times. I mean, it's no different from other quarterbacks in the league that say they're limited and they get rest just like Robert Mathis gets rest or other players.  You just want guys fresh going into the season, and he's in a new chapter, really, in this organization and on this team, and you just want the guy to be fresh for Sunday."

 

He's going to be limited or even not participate in practice some days this year. Are we going to assume that there's something wrong every week?

 

I don't think we need to assume something is wrong every week, but when the issue is he is out with a 'sore shoulder', instead of a 'he is taking a planned day off', it is a little bit more alarming.

 

I get it, if it is really a plan and it was something agreed upon when he was in contract negotiations, etc. (there has been some allusion to that, at least from what I pick up in some of his interviews).  However, there is no question our offense was puttering last week (granted Denver likely has the best D in the NFL) and Luck just lost his biggest target.  It just seems to me as though it's a weird time to have him not throwing in practice if he was fully healthy.

 

2 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

Every single QB in this league has off throws every game, even Peyton Manning, why are people expecting perfection from Luck? I'm pretty sure if Luck went 30/30 with 5 TD and 400 yds passing people would still complain.

 

I don't expect perfection from Luck.  My main points are: (1) he was off last year after he hurt his shoulder (2) he seemed off more than a few times last week after being on injury report with a shoulder injury (3) he was kept out of practice with a 'sore shoulder' and (4) the organization has been under investigation regarding falsifying Luck's injuries from last year.

 

To me, this is all concerning.  I hope I am wrong, but I don't ever remember hearing of a 5th year QB (coming off the worst season of his career) who lost his biggest WR and looked mediocre (granted vs. a very good defense) taking a day off to rest in practice after the 2nd week of the season.

[OLD FAN MAN]

if his shoulder is hurt why did the colts pay him like he is super qb 

[John Waylon]

6 hours ago, snkdy said:

 

I'm not a big fan of Holder, but he seems concerned for whatever that's worth.

 

It's always humorous when I see other fans go "You're not an expert, you don't know!" and then when an actual expert does come along and says the same thing they shift to the tired old "You're not a coach, you don't know!"

 

It really isn't even fun to do this anymore, honestly. Not enough actual discussion. It's just "my opinion is right and yours is not!"

 

Miiiiiiight have something to do with the decrease in size of this place.

[John Waylon]

Just now, FACE REALITY said:

if his shoulder is hurt why did the colts pay him like he is super qb 

 

And then there's posts like this that make me wish I had just stayed in bed this morning...

[Happy2BeHere]

6 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

Every single QB in this league has off throws every game, even Peyton Manning, why are people expecting perfection from Luck? I'm pretty sure if Luck went 30/30 with 5 TD and 400 yds passing people would still complain.

Darn right...because he should have gone 40/40 with 6 TDs  

[deedub75]

I'm concerned. If there was a subluxation then there could be some arthritis and scar tissue still in there. He probably needed surgery. 

[jameszeigler834]

6 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

That was Dorsett the ball was going to, and it was high and kind of outside.... if that ball was thrown lower and towards the middle of the field, no way does Talib make that play.

 

Talib did make a heck of a play, I'll give him that -- and Dorsett could/should have come back on the ball instead of standing there flat-footed and waiting, but the throw was higher than it needed to be.

Ya and we will put you out there with no line and against that defense and see if you do better.

[Gramz]

5 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

There's a difference between being sore from the previous game and having a lingering injury 

 

But like you, I don't care. Football is just entertainment and I personally dont care about the players, staff, etc. 

WOW,   really...???

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

5 minutes ago, Gramz said:

WOW,   really...???

They're not my friends or family. Not like I idolize them either. They're just our there doing their jobs

[Moe]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it's likely,  perhaps even highly likely,  that for the rest of Luck's career you're going to see him rated as Limited Practice on Wednesdays due to this shoulder.      That's one of the things the Colts want to do to protect him.       And from time to time,  after an especially hard hitting game as Sunday was,   Luck will take the entire Wednesday practice off and just observe.

 

Luck doesn't seem to be worried about it.........    at least not publicly.     The Colts don't seem to be worried about it.....    at least not publicly.

 

But this is probably going to be our "new normal".....

 

 

 

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think it's likely,  perhaps even highly likely,  that for the rest of Luck's career you're going to see him rated as Limited Practice on Wednesdays due to this shoulder.      That's one of the things the Colts want to do to protect him.       And from time to time,  after an especially hard hitting game as Sunday was,   Luck will take the entire Wednesday practice off and just observe.

 

Luck doesn't seem to be worried about it.........    at least not publicly.     The Colts don't seem to be worried about it.....    at least not publicly.

 

But this is probably going to be our "new normal".....

 

 

I hope you're right , just makes me nervous after last year!

[gacoop1]

Here we go again with Luck being injured and might miss some games.  The focus was supposed to improve,the O-line to keep the Franchise upright, but as usual you have a bonehead GM that just doesn't how to draft quality players and a coach that just doesn't know how to coach....Enough said, get rid of them two....

[oldunclemark]

  This is a non-issue...

he's going to play all year with a sore shoulder...

 

..Like a baseball pitcher needing an extra day between starts in the rotation

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ya and we will put you out there with no line and against that defense and see if you do better.

 

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on these message boards.  Especially coming from a guy talking about a throw so fact of the matter when he doesn't even know who the ball was going to.  Of course I am not better than Luck, nor is any poster on these boards.  I never claimed to be.

 

The fact of the matter is, that interception was a high throw.  Yes, Talib made a heck of a play, and yes Dorsett made basically no effort to come back into the ball to make a play himself. 

 

Not once do I say Luck is a bad QB, not once do I say myself or anyone else would do better.  It was quite apparent, last season after Luck hurt his shoulder he had an issue with accuracy, with a lot of the issue dealing with him throwing balls high.  I have already acknowledged, part of that issue might also stem from the fact he is afraid of getting the ball batted down at the line (and others have pointed out he sometimes throws when he is not fully upright). 

 

This thread was created to see if any one else is a bit concerned with Luck being on the injury report last week and missing practice this week, admittedly due to a 'sore right shoulder.'  There were several times last week where Luck threw high or was inaccurate (a couple of these were on purpose, just trying to get the ball out before taking a sack).  Luck was 21/40 last week -- yes, the defense of Denver is very good and sure there were a couple of balls that maybe should have been caught.  That doesn't change the fact that Luck barely completed 50% of his passes (only 3 QBs had a lower completion percentage last week), that he had some throws which were inaccurate or poorly timed (the pick 6 was a throw which was a bit high and slightly off target, and yes for the 3rd time I'm saying Talib made a very good play and Dorsett could have done more to prevent that, but it still doesn't change the fact that it was a slightly high and off target throw, like many others in the game were).  Add to Luck's struggles last week, the fact Moncrief is out and we have a new WR on the squad, which means Luck will be missing his 1a WR and dealing with an entirely new WR -- it is a bit concerning to me that he is missing practice for what was first reported, and admitted by Luck, to be a 'sore right shoulder'.... after coming off a shaky performance this early in the season, with a new cast of characters, it just seems to me like it's a bit odd for the QB not to be throwing in practice when it is clear that there can be some work to improve timing, accuracy and familiarity with guys he isn't used to throwing the ball to.

[threeflight]

I tore my rotator cuff last year.  To the point where it was coming out of joint, clicking so much you could hear it 10 feet away, and flopping around for a good 8 months.  I refused to have surgery because I am a big weight lifter and I didn't want to be in a sling for months.  For the first year my shoulder would ache every day, to the point where at times I would get nauseous.  

 

Now, a year and a half later, via exercise....the shoulder is about 75%.  But it will never be the same.  I lift like before and lifting strengthened the joint to the point where I got by without surgery, but it still lacks strength and comes out of joint now and then.  

 

The reason Luck is air mailing the ball is because he is in pain and lacking in strength, he can't DRIVE the ball.  It simply hurts too much and the strength isn't there.  Every time he goes back to throw, he unconsciously lets up just a little on his throws, causing the ball to sail.  

 

Been there.  Done that.

 

Hate to say this, but if this is something that can't be fixed by surgery, and it sounds like surgery could make it worse, he is going to be dealing with this for the rest of his life.  

 

So forgetting about the fact that his stats just do not justify it, this is yet another reason imo why he should not have gotten the contract he did.  Very good player.  Not highest paid player in the NFL great though.

[esmort]

There may be some lingering issues that they want to make sure do not become something major.  But, I am sure he was looked at very closely by the Colts Dr's before the he got a new contract. I do not believe he gets that big of contract with no outs for the Colts if there was any big question marks or red flags concerning his shoulder.

[southwest1]

12 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

This tells me there is more truth to this https://www.all22.com/indianapolis-colts/understanding-andrew-lucks-shoulder-injury than the Colts would like to admit.

 

I'm no Dr. & I never attended medical school either but that first video on that linked page makes it seem like Luck's shoulder can be popped back in place similar to a dislocated finger. I know I'm oversimplifying it, but that brief You Tube video conveys the impression that Luck will be the Mel Gibson character named Riggs from the "Lethal Weapon" feature film trilogy. 

 

 

All kidding aside, this isn't great news to hear about our starting franchise QB because the more the shoulder moves out of position wouldn't it suggest that this lingering issue could pose a pain thresh hold problem or a lack of timeouts in a crucial 2 minute situation in a must have game in late November for instance to pop his shoulder back in place just so Chewy can throw a TD to Moncrief or Hilton in the end zone?

 

I'm not thrilled over this news at all. Grigs needed to focus on our line yrs earlier. Grrr!  

 

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, threeflight said:

I tore my rotator cuff last year.  To the point where it was coming out of joint, clicking so much you could hear it 10 feet away, and flopping around for a good 8 months.  I refused to have surgery because I am a big weight lifter and I didn't want to be in a sling for months.  For the first year my shoulder would ache every day, to the point where at times I would get nauseous.  

 

Now, a year and a half later, via exercise....the shoulder is about 75%.  But it will never be the same.  I lift like before and lifting strengthened the joint to the point where I got by without surgery, but it still lacks strength and comes out of joint now and then.  

 

The reason Luck is air mailing the ball is because he is in pain and lacking in strength, he can't DRIVE the ball.  It simply hurts too much and the strength isn't there.  Every time he goes back to throw, he unconsciously lets up just a little on his throws, causing the ball to sail.  

 

Been there.  Done that.

 

Hate to say this, but if this is something that can't be fixed by surgery, and it sounds like surgery could make it worse, he is going to be dealing with this for the rest of his life.  

 

So forgetting about the fact that his stats just do not justify it, this is yet another reason imo why he should not have gotten the contract he did.  Very good player.  Not highest paid player in the NFL great though.

Sorry to hear about your rotator cuff injury 3 Flight. What I highlighted in red from your post troubles me a great deal. I won't lie since it sounds like this shoulder issue could increase the likelihood of turnovers. Not good; not good at all. I'm not blaming Luck at all. I'm just saying pain tolerance can affect accuracy & ball velocity & spin that's all. Crap. 

[JPFolks]

12 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

They're not being transparent if he's still injured at all or having difficulties with his shoulder

 

I recall multiple times everyone from Luck to Irsay coming out and saying Luck is 100% healthy. 0 issues. All this crap suggests otherwise. We'll wait to see what happens but I just have no trust in what an NFL team says when I comes to it's injuries. 

Frankly I find it ridiculous that NFL teams have to share ANY health related information with anyone, even 1 hour before the game.  It is all done to please the gambling crowd and with the NFL cozying up to that very industry little by little, I am sure it won't change.  Fantasy Football is the second reason they give out health info, but we all know nearly every team over or under-estimates the health on players every week.  The Colts used to be one of the few teams that really didn't play around with injury reports, but apparently they must think they have a good reason to.  I wish they didn't say a word about who was healthy or injured and just played the games so that teams couldn't game plan against teams with late or otherwise unknown injuries.  Teams are already at a disadvantage when their players are hurt, why help the other team and gamblers? Makes no sense to me.  

[southwest1]

7 hours ago, John Waylon said:

 

It's always humorous when I see other fans go "You're not an expert, you don't know!" and then when an actual expert does come along and says the same thing they shift to the tired old "You're not a coach, you don't know!"

 

It really isn't even fun to do this anymore, honestly. Not enough actual discussion. It's just "my opinion is right and yours is not!"

 

Miiiiiiight have something to do with the decrease in size of this place.

Wait, so what's your dilemma here exactly? That people give their opinion with no authority in the field of medicine or that when medically trained professionals respond accordingly nobody wants to believe them?

 

Both valid questions sure, but if we waited for only Ph.D. candidates to reply to NFL injury concerns alone this forum would be very dull & uninspiring place to read & glean useful insights from now wouldn't it John? 

 

Off topic slightly: Barry AKA @Bayone. Care to chime in here as a legally trained physician yourself? I, for one, would appreciate your feedback from a distance if you ever treated patients with a similar condition. Thank you. In your professional opinion, would such an injury limit or hamstring a QB's ability to generate completions & win playoff games down the stretch longterm? Yes or no & why? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I doubt Luck misses a game all season unless he gets a concussion or a serious in game injury. It wouldn't surprise me if we list him questionable every week, it doesn't mean anything. He says he's fine so I believe him.

[southwest1]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Luck doesn't seem to be worried about it.........    at least not publicly.     The Colts don't seem to be worried about it.....    at least not publicly.

 

Just because Pagano downplays the shoulder issue doesn't mean it's not a problem NCF. I'm not accusing either Chuck or Jimmy of withholding medical facts on the severity or trivial nature of them. 

 

I'm just saying that nobody from a fan perspective knows the true nature of Luck's condition. I'm not predicting the worst here. I just know that given the beating Andrew's body took last season that small ailments can develop into larger ones given the punishment Luck's frame has absorbed since 2012. 

[southwest1]

30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I doubt Luck misses a game all season unless he gets a concussion or a serious in game injury. It wouldn't surprise me if we list him questionable every week, it doesn't mean anything. He says he's fine so I believe him.

I get what you're saying CBE & you could be right this might be a tiny blip on his medical radar. I sincerely hope so. To me, it's not an injury report classification thing with minimal information on it. 

 

No, it's more of a does this shoulder injury mess up his throwing motion in December when the temperature drops, the snow falls, & NE gets home field advantage where INDY has to play mistake free football in Massachusetts. 

 

Or lets say Pittsburgh gets home field advantage instead of NE in the playoffs. Either way, INDY would have to play lights out with zero turnovers to beat Big Ben. A tall order since so many Colt DBs are down & the Steelers also usually mop the floor with us as well. 

 

I'm not throwing in the "Terrible Towel" just admitting that winning in Pittsburgh would border on a Christmas miracle right now. Let's be honest. 

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

 

Just because Pagano downplays the shoulder issue doesn't mean it's not a problem NCF. I'm not accusing either Chuck or Jimmy of withholding medical facts on the severity or trivial nature of them. 

 

I'm just saying that nobody from a fan perspective knows the true nature of Luck's condition. I'm not predicting the worst here. I just know that given the beating Andrew's body took last season that small ailments can develop into larger ones given the punishment Luck's frame has absorbed since 2012. 

 

That's exactly why I wrote....        at least not publicly...

 

I don't expect Pagano or Luck to tell the truth here...    especially if they want to keep it a secret from other teams which I assume they do....    and I have no complaints about that.    That's the way life in the NFL works.

 

So, you wrote two paragraphs that summed up my thoughts when I wrote....       at least not publicly.