fokou not connor could be the starter

[CR91]

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/8/5/3222021/2012-colts-training-camp-report-notes-on-first-week

Kavell Conner has been working a lot with the second unit defense, not the first. Coaches don't seem to like what he was doing with the first unit. Fokou saw some time with the first unit the Saturday after the trade, and he turned some heads with a few sticks he laid.

[HtownColt]

Fokou and Conner. That's going to be a nice little battle to keep and eye on as the preseason games approach and are played. I wouldn't be mad if either one was the starter. I like Conner and I was impressed with Fokou on occasions with the Eagles(the games that came on tv).

[mystrymaster]

Foku was awful with the eagles, more interested in highlight football than fundamental football.

[MTC]

Whoever plays the position better should be the starter.

[Golfr]

I find that hard to believe. I suppose its possible Foku could be the starter but not after a couple of practices. If Foku is an upgrade....so be it.

[ColtsLegacy]

Whoever plays the position better should be the starter.

[TKnight24]

The only Locked-In Starting LB is Freeney, Mathis, & Angerer. That 2nd MLB Spot is Open now I just don't see anyone taking Angerer's Spot. And Coach didn't move Freeney & Mathis to OLB for them NOT to Start

[Smitto]

Angerer isnt a lock at all, i dont see what ppl see in Conner he looks like a decent 4-3 LB, hopefully the cuts come the end of the preseason can render some ILBs that have a chance of starting here this season.

[lance.acres]

Is this a serious statement?

Angerer isnt a lock at all, i dont see what ppl see in Conner he looks like a decent 4-3 LB, hopefully the cuts come the end of the preseason can render some ILBs that have a chance of starting here this season.

I the BOLD a serious statement?

[Smitto]

Is this a serious statement?

I the BOLD a serious statement?

it sure is, colts were interested in manny lawson who is an ILB.. Pat is not a 3-4 LB, he's very good at tackling but he doesnt have the size.... gonna have to see how that translates when the colts face run heavy teams.

God Help him if Antonio Johnson isnt able to get double teamed

[HGRekks]

it sure is, colts were interested in manny lawson who is an ILB..

Manny Lawson has never been an ILB at any high level. He played OLB at the beginning of his college career, then moved over to DE, where he earned his first round status. He played OLB in the 49ers 3-4, and then he played OLB for the Bengals, next to Rey Maualuga at MIKE.

[NewColtsFan]

Is this a serious statement?

I the BOLD a serious statement?

It's one thing to say Connor may not start and one of the new LB's we just acquired would take his place...

It's quite another to say Pat Angerer isn't a lock to start this year. You can say he's miscast as a 3-4 ILB, but you have to have someone better before he's not starting, and there's no one on the roster now who is better. No one.

You can argue Angerer isn't the long-term solution to what Pagano wants to do, but that's long term, not this year.

By the way, I think you may have Manny Lawson confused with someone else. Because Lawson is not an ILB, he's an OLB, and always has been, from college right through the pros. If he's played any ILB, it would be injury replacement, not something planned out ahead of time. He's 6'5" 240.... not exactly ILB dimensions.

Here's his wiki page, which his agent has created:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Manny_Lawson

[TKnight24]

So, if Angerer isn't a Lock & Doesn't start.... Idk who is then, Might as well go get some random guy off the street and put him out there. There's NO WAY that the BEST LB on your Team isn't a LOCK

[shakedownstreet]

Whoever plays the position better should be the starter.

whoever starts is good. we should keep them

[dgambill]

Angerer is pretty much a lock. I don't think he is as bad or as good as some say. He has a nose for the ball and he wraps up good and makes the plays he should. That said I didn't feel he made big plays or big stops last year. I don't know if he caused any turnovers and for someone that was in as many plays as he was that is something to say. I didn't see him shed blockers well or really anticipate well. He looked totally lost in his zone coverage but thank god I don't think he will be asked to do that as much this year....and perhaps that is why (all the deep drops he was asked to make) he looked a little slow to anticipate and make stops. I do think he has a GREAT motor and is as good a form tackler as we have. He wraps up well and is a pretty sure tackler...didn't see him miss much. To me he is an avg inside lb....on a team with NO ONE that could do better. It isn't like we have anyone else to put him out of a job. If we had a better solution I would be all for it. Connor I agree will have to battle Fokou out for that spot.

[Indyboy757]

At the ILB position the best player on the team is Angerer, man this kid lead the league for most of last year till he got hurt late in the season. If you watch the games last year you would know this is a bright spot on our D and should be much empproved for his third season

[John Waylon]

This is legitimately surprising. Conner, IMO, had an amazing 2011 and showed a tremendous amount of promise. If he struggles in our 3-4 I hope we trade him to a 4-3 where he can once again make waves and we can get something for him.

[braveheartcolt]

At least we know Luck is a Lock. Pointless comment, but it just sounded nice.....

[Smitto]

Manny Lawson has never been an ILB at any high level. He played OLB at the beginning of his college career, then moved over to DE, where he earned his first round status. He played OLB in the 49ers 3-4, and then he played OLB for the Bengals, next to Rey Maualuga at MIKE.

Well they sure werent intefested in him for OLB cause freeney and mathis have that spot... Unless they really were trying to trade freeney.

[Smitto]

This is a totally new system guys like freeney bethea and matbis are locks not the rest... You can probably even put freeney in the mix if he has trouble making the transition. this teams trying to find their identity on defense and offense if someone pops up in the preseason behind angerer then he starts.

The new regime dont look like the type to be loyal to players even though they're horrible unlike polian and friends.

Im hoping Pat can rattle skulls this year though really like him as a fb player.

[lollygagger8]

Fokou, Fugger, Angerer.

The best named linebacker line up, ever.

[Michael Lebron]

Fokou will surprise Colts Fans. He is a hard hitter who makes plays. However needs to remain discipline in his assignments. This has been where he has struggled in the past. Here is where attention to detail comes in and our staff has it! Great Pick up!

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Speaking of LBers, OLBers in fact, do you think we'll bring back Ernie Sims?

Should we bring him back? All I know is he is fast.

[Gavin]

We are pretty loaded with depth at Linebacker , he really hasnt produced since 2008 for whatever reason

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

it sure is, colts were interested in manny lawson who is an ILB.. Pat is not a 3-4 LB, he's very good at tackling but he doesnt have the size.... gonna have to see how that translates when the colts face run heavy teams.

God Help him if Antonio Johnson isnt able to get double teamed

Angerger is a lock to start, I believe but that doesn't mean it will be good! Angerger is a chase & pursue guy who can get in on alot of tackles, He however is NOT a real THUMPER INSIDE who has the size to take on guards strait up IMO. We will see how it goes but I have concern! Hopefully I will be proved wrong we will see soon enough! :eyebrow:

[Warhorse]

Hmmm. Angerer and Bethea were our two best players past the Dline last season. It would be a little presumptive to assume that Pat would not get even better in his third campaign, considering that the new scheme might make even better use of him than the previous. Imagine a consistent healthy Dline in front of him...what he might become.

Of course, as said by someone else, the only true lock in the team is Aluck. I just cant wait for our "Fire and Desire Tour" to begin next week.

[JoKeR]

I heard Paganos 3-4 is a lot like a dime package 4-3. Perhaps we should see it in action before saying Angerer and Conner can't play in it.

[DoomOf21]

I heard Paganos 3-4 is a lot like a dime package 4-3. Perhaps we should see it in action before saying Angerer and Conner can't play in it.

What do you mean that it is like a dime package 4-3? I'm just curious.

We are pretty loaded with depth at Linebacker , he really hasnt produced since 2008 for whatever reason

Who hasn't produced since 2008?

[JoKeR]

What do you mean that it is like a dime package 4-3? I'm just curious.

Who hasn't produced since 2008?

I meant nickel

I just as curious as you but I've heard it a lot. I'm sorry I meant nickel . That the ILBers have the same responsibilities as the 2 LBers in a nickel, they don't engage lineman as often.

[Superman]

I meant nickel

I just as curious as you but I've heard it a lot. I'm sorry I meant nickel . That the ILBers have the same responsibilities as the 2 LBers in a nickel, they don't engage lineman as often.

That can be true depending on the situation. For instance, you might see the Colts send both OLBs at the quarterback, drop both ILBs into coverage, and use a safety in man coverage, leaving one man deep. But the ILBs will engage blockers on a regular basis, especially on running downs. They'll have no choice.

The fact of the matter is that, after watching a ton of the Ravens defense over the past few months, there's no box you can put this defense in. If Pagano intends to duplicate his defense from Baltimore on the Colts, then you're looking at a conglomeration of defensive principles, schemes, packages, etc., and it's utterly useless to try to put a label on it. It will be 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5, 3-5-3, 1-5-5, 2-4-5, 4-2-5, and practically any other number combination you can think of that adds up to 11. That's what I like about it so much.

[Gavin]

What do you mean that it is like a dime package 4-3? I'm just curious.

Who hasn't produced since 2008?

Ernie Sims

[HtownColt]

I meant nickel

I just as curious as you but I've heard it a lot. I'm sorry I meant nickel . That the ILBers have the same responsibilities as the 2 LBers in a nickel, they don't engage lineman as often.

A 3-4 is meant for your inside linebackers to be able to move more freely due to double teams up front

[Freenyfan102]

Anger cam from a 3 4 defense from Iowa

[JoKeR]

That can be true depending on the situation. For instance, you might see the Colts send both OLBs at the quarterback, drop both ILBs into coverage, and use a safety in man coverage, leaving one man deep. But the ILBs will engage blockers on a regular basis, especially on running downs. They'll have no choice.

The fact of the matter is that, after watching a ton of the Ravens defense over the past few months, there's no box you can put this defense in. If Pagano intends to duplicate his defense from Baltimore on the Colts, then you're looking at a conglomeration of defensive principles, schemes, packages, etc., and it's utterly useless to try to put a label on it. It will be 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5, 3-5-3, 1-5-5, 2-4-5, 4-2-5, and practically any other number combination you can think of that adds up to 11. That's what I like about it so much.

Next time someone asks what defensive scheme the Colts use, a 3-4 or 4-3, I'll just say 11. I don't know how they're using them this down but there using 11.

[JoKeR]

If Freeney and Mathis are rushing most of the time, why not go 5-2-4? Have Frathis put their hands in the ground , have 2 UT types next to them and a NT in the middle, have the ILB in coverage or hit gaps on run plays, have FS in deep coverage , and have the SS in deep or floating around the box?

[Superman]

If Freeney and Mathis are rushing most of the time, why not go 5-2-4? Have Frathis put their hands in the ground , have 2 UT types next to them and a NT in the middle, have the ILB in coverage or hit gaps on run plays, have FS in deep coverage , and have the SS in deep or floating around the box?

That's essentially what it will be at times. That's how Wade Phillips and Rex Ryan have described their defenses in the past, as a 5-2 front. They don't use five men down unless it's goalline or short yardage, but they can. However, keeping Freeney and Mathis (or whoever the OLBs are) in a two-point stance allows you to keep the offense on their toes and disguise where the rush is coming from.

There's a lot of things that the defense can do from a lot of different personnel groupings, especially when Freeney and Mathis are both on the field. And having versatile ILBs like Conner, Angerer and now Fokou (all three of whom have played strong and weakside linebacker in a 4-3 front) allows us to play the run and disguise blitzes in a variety of ways.

I think the most appropriate term is "hybrid" defense, without a 3-4 or 4-3 designation. Both of those terms are really outdated anyways with as much nickel as every defense plays these days. But especially with Pagano's defense, they do some of everything. The "11 defense" might catch on.