Frank fired by Panthers (Merged)

[RollerColt]

11 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If true Reich not adjusting to fit his QB is insane.

 

 

Yeah... I can't see any team picking him up now. At least in the NFL level. Maybe a college somewhere. He'd make a great head coach for a local Christian high school football team. 

[DougDew]

25 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If true Reich not adjusting to fit his QB is insane.

 

 

So why would Reich want to trade assets to get Young in the first place? 

 

And why would CAR hire Frank if they thought Young was best?

 

Wouldn't they talk about RPO and offensive scheme when they decide to hire a HC and trade up for a QB of their choice?

 

Or just to get a sense of how the HC would run his O?

 

Having to go to Frank and ask him now seems about 9 games and $30m too late.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So why would Reich want to trade assets to get Young in the first place? 

 

And why would CAR hire Frank if they thought Young was best?

 

Wouldn't they talk about RPO and offensive scheme when they decide to hire a HC and trade up for a QB of their choice?

 

Or just to get a sense of how the HC would run his O?

 

Having to go to Frank and ask him now seems about 9 games and $30m too late.

Something don’t add up because Reich loved RPO.

[Lancer1]

https://www.on3.com/pro/news/frank-reich-panthers-buyout-revealed/

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If true Reich not adjusting to fit his QB is insane.

 

 

Insane to who?  Are you surprised?  There are plenty of reports of Reich refusing to give up playcalling with us and the panthers so I can’t see him wanting to change what he does, especially after seeing him here.  
 

I said it before here and in other threads.  It is CLEAR that Ryan and Shane (especially Shane) have been able to create game plans around their QBs but with Reich it just seems like it’s the same old Reich.  Bland, boring, and predictable. 
 

And once again, he was touted as a QB guru and here we have another example of him failing his QB.  I don’t want to hear what he has done with other QBs who were already established and coached (ex. luck, Phillips).  
 

lol @ “didn’t fit his system”.  Well he should’ve made one perhaps.  It was clear to me from the beginning that Reich was not helping his QB.  Instead of Creating a shape for his QB to fit in, he tried to force his QB through the shape he wanted.

[RollerColt]

@Superman Tepper spoke with media and didn’t really clarify the Stroud rumors…

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Lancer1 said:

https://www.on3.com/pro/news/frank-reich-panthers-buyout-revealed/

 

So if that's true, that's confirmation that whatever the Colts owed Reich was offset by his Panthers' contract. And now the Panthers are on the hook for the remaining $27m. Assuming Reich attempts to mitigate, and based on what he told a reporter yesterday, he might not.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

@Superman Tepper spoke with media and didn’t really clarify the Stroud rumors…

 

I heard what Tepper said. Unless you believe that he made the Bryce Young decision, I think what he said was clear and definitive. He said the coaches and the scouts were unanimous that Young was the pick. When asked about Stroud, he said the Panthers considered moving down to #2 because they believed the Texans wanted Stroud, and they'd still be able to pick Young at #2. He also said that he maintains the ability to overrule his staff on decisions, but did not.

 

He could have made all that up, or he could be telling half-truths. Or maybe someone else who was involved remembers it differently. But he wasn't unclear IMO.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I heard what Tepper said. Unless you believe that he made the Bryce Young decision, I think what he said was clear and definitive. He said the coaches and the scouts were unanimous that Young was the pick. When asked about Stroud, he said the Panthers considered moving down to #2 because they believed the Texans wanted Stroud, and they'd still be able to pick Young at #2. He also said that he maintains the ability to overrule his staff on decisions, but did not.

 

He could have made all that up, or he could be telling half-truths. Or maybe someone else who was involved remembers it differently. But he wasn't unclear IMO.

Oh I see it now. I was missing the information on them wanting to trade with Houston to move down. That’s interesting. 

[jvan1973]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's only about $30m, according to Andrew Brandt. I'd get fired for $60m, don't know if I'd do it for $30m... 😉

 

 

Don't the Colts still owe him money from his contract here?

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Oh I see it now. I was missing the information on them wanting to trade with Houston to move down. That’s interesting. 

 

For a couple of days, there were rumors about them potentially moving down before the draft. So I wasn't surprised to hear him say that. 

 

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Don't the Colts still owe him money from his contract here?

 

The money the Colts owed him was offset by his Panthers contract, so no.

[Nate!]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I heard what Tepper said. Unless you believe that he made the Bryce Young decision, I think what he said was clear and definitive. He said the coaches and the scouts were unanimous that Young was the pick. When asked about Stroud, he said the Panthers considered moving down to #2 because they believed the Texans wanted Stroud, and they'd still be able to pick Young at #2. He also said that he maintains the ability to overrule his staff on decisions, but did not.

 

He could have made all that up, or he could be telling half-truths. Or maybe someone else who was involved remembers it differently. But he wasn't unclear IMO.

Florio had a good article which suggested essentially, it was potentially unanimous as everybody knew Tepper wanted Young.  Tepper said he has full veto authority to make the final decision.  So if you know he wants Young and has final say regardless, let’s say Young.  Also pointed out how Young is short and very common for many NFL types to auto-rule out a short QB but apparently not any of that existed within the Panthers organization

[bluebombers87]

1 hour ago, Nate! said:

Florio had a good article which suggested essentially, it was potentially unanimous as everybody knew Tepper wanted Young.  Tepper said he has full veto authority to make the final decision.  So if you know he wants Young and has final say regardless, let’s say Young.  Also pointed out how Young is short and very common for many NFL types to auto-rule out a short QB but apparently not any of that existed within the Panthers organization

Wonder if it was one of those “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” situations.

[John Waylon]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:22 PM, Superman said:

 

Let me counter with this. What NFL HC -- offensive minded, defensive minded, or otherwise -- would describe his prototypical QB prospect in a way that reminds you of Bryce Young? There isn't one. He's no one's prototype. And yet, the NFL world in general thought highly of him before the draft, and he was pretty much a lock to go near the top of the draft because there are some desirable traits that were considered offsetting. My point is that I don't think your read of Reich's comments and history is definitive when it comes to his viewpoint of Bryce Young. 

 

 

You'll see nothing resembling a defense of Tepper from me. I just don't think Reich is incapable of falling for a bad QB prospect, despite what everyone thinks. The idea that Reich simply could not have wanted Young, and therefore this has to be Tepper's doing, is a step too far for me. I don't know why Reich is being quarantined away from the Young decision.

 

I also don't find the idea that Tepper would inject himself into the decision, and I would not be shocked to find that he did just that. 

 

We agree that Tepper is a problem, has made bad decisions, and deserves the bulk of the blame for the state of the team right now.

Not to dredge this up again, but something from Mike Florio today brought my attention back to this… 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/david-tepper-might-have-made-a-freudian-slip-on-tuesday

 

“It was almost - I believe it was unanimous.” 

 

Sounds more and more like someone in that room wasn’t convinced, but they couldn’t tell the owner what to do. 
 

If it was unanimous there was no need for any “almost” or even  an “I believe”. It was or it wasn’t. And he tried to say it was, but his words and his message there come off disconnected. 
 

Even Florio, who I think is a complete derp in his own right, indicates that tepper “nudged” them towards Young. As derpy as Florio may be, he’s a guy who is juiced in with a ton of contacts around the league. I don’t think he would say such a thing without having heard that from a source he considers to be reliable. 
 

It’s become kind of a fascinating story to follow out there as someone who doesn’t have to worry about suffering the consequences on Sundays. Hopefully the whole story emerges some day. 

[Superman]

20 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Not to dredge this up again, but something from Mike Florio today brought my attention back to this… 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/david-tepper-might-have-made-a-freudian-slip-on-tuesday

 

“It was almost - I believe it was unanimous.” 

 

Sounds more and more like someone in that room wasn’t convinced, but they couldn’t tell the owner what to do. 
 

If it was unanimous there was no need for any “almost” or even  an “I believe”. It was or it wasn’t. And he tried to say it was, but his words and his message there come off disconnected. 
 

Even Florio, who I think is a complete derp in his own right, indicates that tepper “nudged” them towards Young. As derpy as Florio may be, he’s a guy who is juiced in with a ton of contacts around the league. I don’t think he would say such a thing without having heard that from a source he considers to be reliable. 
 

It’s become kind of a fascinating story to follow out there as someone who doesn’t have to worry about suffering the consequences on Sundays. Hopefully the whole story emerges some day. 

 

Mike Florio sure can spin it. It's the same narrative, not hard to follow or understand, but there's no substance. The owner literally says it was unanimous, and that's being used as evidence that it wasn't actually unanimous. I'm thinking that's because people already made their minds up and have staked themselves to this position.

 

If there was actual evidence, we wouldn't have to work so hard to support this. If there's more story out there, I'm sure it will come out. People are already speaking, mostly off the record, about how things go with Tepper. Some of the recently fired people, or maybe eventually some of the people who will probably be fired in January, might have something to say that refutes what Tepper said today. I'll be happy to entertain those statements, if/when they come out. 

 

I'm fascinated by the entire deal as well. I've been interested in Reich's work in Carolina because I had questions about how much credit and blame he deserves for what happened with the Colts. There's been a lot to follow since he took the job, and the situation remains intriguing to me.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 11/27/2023 at 5:56 PM, NFLfan said:

Wow. That's awful. I am not a proponent of firing coaches in fewer than 3 full years.

 

Who will want to work for this owner? The Athletic put out a list of names. The Lions OC Ben Johnson was the first one listed. Why would he want to go there? I read that the Bears are interested in the same head coach. Why would he choose the Panthers over the Bears who may select another top QB. Or the Chargers.

 

Other names listed were

Eagles OC Brian Johnson,

49ers DC Steve Wilks (why would he want to go there??),

Jim Harbaugh,

Bill O'Brien,

Bill Belichick,

Texans OC Bobby Slowik

and some Panthers assistants.

 

https://theathletic.com/5093608/2023/11/27/carolina-panthers-coaching-candidates-david-tepper?source=user-shared-article

 

Bill Belichick maybe??

 

Former Panthers TE Greg Olsen is also interested.

 

There will plenty who will want the gig....... But none elite or Big Name coaches like for most other low end franchises. 

[Superfly Jay]

I'd be trying to get that Panthers job. You already know you're getting fired by Thanksgiving. Spend the next 3.5 years collecting a check, traveling the world.

[RollerColt]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Mike Florio sure can spin it. It's the same narrative, not hard to follow or understand, but there's no substance. The owner literally says it was unanimous, and that's being used as evidence that it wasn't actually unanimous. I'm thinking that's because people already made their minds up and have staked themselves to this position.

 

If there was actual evidence, we wouldn't have to work so hard to support this. If there's more story out there, I'm sure it will come out. People are already speaking, mostly off the record, about how things go with Tepper. Some of the recently fired people, or maybe eventually some of the people who will probably be fired in January, might have something to say that refutes what Tepper said today. I'll be happy to entertain those statements, if/when they come out. 

 

I'm fascinated by the entire deal as well. I've been interested in Reich's work in Carolina because I had questions about how much credit and blame he deserves for what happened with the Colts. There's been a lot to follow since he took the job, and the situation remains intriguing to me.

There’s a narrative across the media right now that Frank was the victim in all of this with Tepper to have all the blame. 
 

I’m not even a fan of Tepper, but it’s false to think that Frank didn’t have a hand in his own downfall. I think he even knows he is to at least partly blame for how bad the team was playing, as evident from his interview immediately after getting fired:

 

Quote

“I want to convey that I have nothing but positive thoughts about Mr. Tepper. On a personal level, I saw a side of him that I deeply respect and care about. But the NFL is a meritocracy. It’s not unconditional love. I understand from a professional standpoint Mr. Tepper is going to have certain standards that he expects to have met. I have no hard feelings, and my personal relationship with him was actually a real highlight of this short time.”

https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article282370333.html

[Solid84]

22 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If true Reich not adjusting to fit his QB is insane.

 

 

It fits what we saw in Indy as well. He’s inflexible and his scheme is outdated. 
 

I doubt he coaches in the NFL again. 

[lollygagger8]

[DougDew]

23 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Something don’t add up because Reich loved RPO.

I would think that a standard clause in an NFL coaching contract would be a "anti-disparaging" clause or a "non disclosure" clause.  Meaning, if the fired guy still wants his money, he can't go off to the media saying bad things about the organization, and use conversations he had with the FO as the basis for the disparaging remarks.

 

OTOH, there is nothing preventing the owner from backhandedly making the coach look bad (leaking?), unless he flat out hurts Frank's reputation by lying, which he could probably be sued for slander.

[krunk]

have they announced who the interim head coach will be?

 

I'd actually like to see Jim Caldwell get another chance. See what he can do with Young for a couple games.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

have they announced who the interim head coach will be?

 

I'd actually like to see Jim Caldwell get another chance. See what he can do with Young for a couple games.

Chris Tabor, their special teams coach. 

[csmopar]

On 11/29/2023 at 7:34 AM, RollerColt said:

There’s a narrative across the media right now that Frank was the victim in all of this with Tepper to have all the blame. 
 

I’m not even a fan of Tepper, but it’s false to think that Frank didn’t have a hand in his own downfall. I think he even knows he is to at least partly blame for how bad the team was playing, as evident from his interview immediately after getting fired:

 

https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article282370333.html

Don’t forget, the media did the same spin on Irsay last year including with Nick the **ck in Philly piling on. Yet what is seeping out is that Frank doesn’t scheme around his players, he forces his players to play HIS way. Which may have worked in the early 1990s but not now

 

https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-rumors-the-panthers-bryce-young-request-that-frank-reich-refused-before-firing

 

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Don’t forget, the media did the same spin on Irsay last year including with Nick the **ck in Philly piling on. Yet what is seeping out is that Frank doesn’t scheme around his players, he forces his players to play HIS way. Which may have worked in the early 1990s but not now

 

https://clutchpoints.com/nfl-rumors-the-panthers-bryce-young-request-that-frank-reich-refused-before-firing

 

I think a lot of this stuff is true. 

 

I also believe it's fairly clear that pretty much everyone involved had a part in the Panthers failing. I'm sorry, but it's clear Reich isn't a great HC. It's safe to say Tepper and his GM are also just as guilty. The GM gave up everything to get Young, and then surrounded Bryce with nothing to work with. 

 

And Tepper is clearly meddling too much, and has created a bad culture in the organization. You cannot create stability if you're firing your coaches every year... Between his MLS and NFL franchises after this season is over he will have hired 10 head coaches in 8 seasons... 

 

Reich deserved to be fired and he knew it was coming. Rhule deserved to be fired, the team was going nowhere with him. We knew Rivera was a lame duck coach the second Tepper bought the team. The firings were warranted, sure. But at the same time this isn't how you create stability around your shiny new QB... Now Bryce will have to learn a new offense next season, build relationships and trust with another staff. His development might already be screwed up now. 

 

The real question is this: even if he manages to hire the right guy next time, will Tepper be able to stay out of the way and allow his employees to breathe? Or will he continue to be in the locker room, the training room, the film sessions, the scouting pro days and more? 

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I think a lot of this stuff is true. 

 

I also believe it's fairly clear that pretty much everyone involved had a part in the Panthers failing. I'm sorry, but it's clear Reich isn't a great HC. It's safe to say Tepper and his GM are also just as guilty. The GM gave up everything to get Young, and then surrounded Bryce with nothing to work with. 

 

And Tepper is clearly meddling too much, and has created a bad culture in the organization. You cannot create stability if you're firing your coaches every year... Between his MLS and NFL franchises after this season is over he will have hired 10 head coaches in 8 seasons... 

 

Reich deserved to be fired and he knew it was coming. Rhule deserved to be fired, the team was going nowhere with him. We knew Rivera was a lame duck coach the second Tepper bought the team. The firings were warranted, sure. But at the same time this isn't how you create stability around your shiny new QB... Now Bryce will have to learn a new offense next season, build relationships and trust with another staff. His development might already be screwed up now. 

 

The real question is this: even if he manages to hire the right guy next time, will Tepper be able to stay out of the way and allow his employees to breathe? Or will he continue to be in the locker room, the training room, the film sessions, the scouting pro days and more? 

Yep and while I agree with Tepper, I put more of the blame on Reich. Not because of his time here or any ill feelings, I think he’s a fine man. And I think he could be a head coach. IF he’d let his coordinators coordinate the offense and defenses around the players strength and then stay as a game manager/overseer . But he won’t do that and won’t accept thinking about doing it. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is very telling. Players did not like Reich.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

This is very telling. Players did not like Reich.

 

 

"This is very telling. Player did not like Reich."

 

or maybe the players just stink  

[sb41champs]

David Tupper's decision to fire Frank Reich as the head coach after ONLY 11 GAMES has just made the Carolina Panthers job the LEAST DESIRABLE NFL coaching vacancy this year.

 

Tupper's impatience - PLUS - the fact that the roster is riddled with mediocre talent - AND - the "high draft pick closet is bare" mean that there isn't going to be a way to turn this team around in the near future.

 

Additionally - it is now coming out that Frank Reich wanted to draft CJ Stroud at #1 overall - and - Tupper overruled him.

 

You couldn't GIVE ME this head coaching job if I were a coaching candidate.  I wouldn't even be willing to interview for it.

[krunk]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:32 PM, sb41champs said:

David Tupper's decision to fire Frank Reich as the head coach after ONLY 11 GAMES has just made the Carolina Panthers job the LEAST DESIRABLE NFL coaching vacancy this year.

 

Tupper's impatience - PLUS - the fact that the roster is riddled with mediocre talent - AND - the "high draft pick closet is bare" mean that there isn't going to be a way to turn this team around in the near future.

 

Additionally - it is now coming out that Frank Reich wanted to draft CJ Stroud at #1 overall - and - Tupper overruled him.

 

You couldn't GIVE ME this head coaching job if I were a coaching candidate.  I wouldn't even be willing to interview for it.

Pagano said that job is a big "Hell No!"

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/chuck-pagano-carolina-panthers-job/624857

[RollerColt]

4 hours ago, krunk said:

Pagano said that job is a big "Hell No!"

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/chuck-pagano-carolina-panthers-job/624857

Yeah he was pretty passionate with his opinion during McCafe’s show this week. It was kind of nice to see Chuck so candid. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:42 PM, krunk said:

have they announced who the interim head coach will be?

 

I'd actually like to see Jim Caldwell get another chance. See what he can do with Young for a couple games.

cant see any coach doing good with a tiny qb

[NewColtsFan]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:45 AM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

This is very telling. Players did not like Reich.

 

 

Sorry….  But the remaining players who are there are not going to publicly side with the head coach who has been fired.   They’re going to side with the owner and GM who just did the firing.   
 

They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them.    

[RollerColt]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Sorry….  But the remaining players who are there are not going to publicly side with the head coach who has been fired.   They’re going to side with the owner and GM who just did the firing.   
 

They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them.    

Especially given the history of that hand forcibly tossing people out the door for not getting immediate results… 

[krunk]

Imagine if Carolina had hired Steichen instead of Reich

Panthers reportedly pivoting away from Eagles OC Shane Steichen (usatoday.com)

 

 

I think that would have worked a lot better putting Steichen with Bryce Young.

 

Oh well!  Im glad it didn't happen for our sake.

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Imagine if Carolina had hired Steichen instead of Reich

Panthers reportedly pivoting away from Eagles OC Shane Steichen (usatoday.com)

 

 

I think that would have worked a lot better putting Steichen with Bryce Young.

 

Oh well!  Im glad it didn't happen for our sake.

I guess he didn't interview very well at that time. 

[krunk]

McDaniels just got fired so probably not.  I'm going out on a ledge here but I can sort of see McDaniels with Bryce Young. I know he wanted him with the Raiders. I can also see him with Tepper somewhat.

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

McDaniels just got fired so probably not.  I'm going out on a ledge here but I can sort of see McDaniels with Bryce Young. I know he wanted him with the Raiders. I can also see him with Tepper somewhat.

 

If Belichick moves on, and Jerod Mayo is HC, he probably says goodbye to Bill O' Brien and brings in Josh McDaniels for grooming the new QB. 

[krunk]

36 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

If Belichick moves on, and Jerod Mayo is HC, he probably says goodbye to Bill O' Brien and brings in Josh McDaniels for grooming the new QB. 

I've seen stuff about Bellichick in Carolina. McDaniels would be a natural fit as OC.  At the very least if I were Tepper I'd figure out how to get McDaniels as the OC for whoever the coach is.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

On 12/4/2023 at 6:58 AM, krunk said:

Imagine if Carolina had hired Steichen instead of Reich

Panthers reportedly pivoting away from Eagles OC Shane Steichen (usatoday.com)

 

 

I think that would have worked a lot better putting Steichen with Bryce Young.

 

Oh well!  Im glad it didn't happen for our sake.

Steichen flat out told them he wasn’t interested after an initial interview. He seen the writing on the wall. That came from his own mouth.