Frank fired by Panthers (Merged)

[chad72]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

When? By who? I would love to see an actual report, and not a rumor.

 

Yeah, everything you read goes back to a rumor or speculation:

 

 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article282364208.html

 

https://atozsports.com/houston/texans-cj-stroud-plays-in-the-panthers-firing-frank-reich-nfl-news/

 

 

[John Waylon]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not challenging the logic of this conclusion. Pre-draft, I felt Stroud was QB1, and Young was a pass. It's not hard for me to understand why anyone would think Stroud would be Reich's preference. 

 

The problem, IMO, is the bolded, and statements like it. Just because you or anyone else thinks that Reich would have preferred Stroud over Young does not mean that Reich actually did prefer Stroud over Young. Nor does it mean that Tepper forced Young on Reich, or that Reich didn't want Young. There's also a GM in the mix, and his evaluation would have been a factor.

 

Yet, people have reached the conclusion -- and in some cases appear to think that this conclusion is undeniable -- that Reich wanted Stroud, and Tepper forced them to take Young. And the more it gets repeated, the more entrenched this belief becomes. And there appears to be no supporting evidence, just a narrative that everyone has bought into. No one actually KNOWS this thing that everyone is claiming to know. It's one thing to think that this is logical and likely, and yet another thing to talk about it as if it's established fact.

 

In short, it's all speculation and conjecture, that people are repeating as if it's scientific fact. And that's what I'm challenging.

After living with frank for the years we did I just cannot see him, even in his frank-est of frank moments, agreeing with even the premise of Young over Stroud. I just can’t see it. Especially in a new environment with a fresh start in what was likely his last chance. Even frank has come out today and said this was probably the end of his NFL journey. He had to make an “all-in” type bet on himself and finally drafting a QB and I just can’t see what would lead him to be ok with making that bet with Young over any of the other 3. I don’t like Levis more than Young by any stretch, but I’d rather bet on Levis to save my bacon over Young, and it’s hard for me to think of frank feeling differently. 
 

Conversely, however, I can see tepper dictating that move and being the “architect” behind going to #1 to get him. His history as an owner is spotty at best, and I feel I’m being kind labeling it in a light even that positive. He got duped into hiring Rhule, would it really be surprising to find that he was also duped by the Young hype? 
 

I just can’t see frank wanting Young for his last bet on himself in the league. If I had to guess I’d say tepper indicated that he wanted Young, and frank just went along with it to avoid rocking the boat after getting a new deal and tried to do his best. Who knows.
 

Whatever it was, the ingredients combined for nothing more than a ridiculous %show, and in the end that’s exactly what we got from it. I can’t say I’m even a little bit surprised by it. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

44 minutes ago, Superman said:

Paywall: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article282370333.html 

 

Interesting thought at the bottom. Don't know if he'd take a college job in the NC area or something like that, but he sounds like he's done with moving around to keep a job in the NFL. At 62, with lots of grandkids, I don't blame him.

 

However, I believe the guaranteed NFL coaching contract requires him to try to find new employment if he's going to receive his remaining money. So he's probably not just walking away from coaching.

You believe? Or is it fact? Where did you see it or read this?? Link ??

[Superman]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

You believe? Or is it fact? Where did you see it or read this?? Link ??

 

This is a losing strategy by you. Would you like a mulligan?

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

These rules have been applied to NFL coaches who move on to college, and vice versa (Panthers paid Rhule's buyout from Baylor, for example). Apparently the NFL tampering rule doesn't explicitly state "NFL team/club," and it doesn't look like either side is taking issue with that detail.

 

The dispute in this case is entirely about the structure of Rhule's Nebraska contract -- whether there is an unreasonable increase in his future compensation (which would be designed to avoid the offset clause), and if so, should the offset be based on the yearly average rather than the current years' compensation.

Thinking about this a bit.  Rhule got hired away from Baylor...not fired.  Rhule was not really a free agent coach to be free to sign anywhere.

 

Rhule was fired from CAR, so was sort of a free agent to be hired by any college. 

 

I can see Rhule's side where on one hand he was hired away by CAR, so they would pay Baylor's contract, but the other he was fired by CAR, so NEB would not be responsible for CAR contract.  CAR would be wrong to blend the salaries as a calculation.  

 

I would think that in most situations, the college coach gets hired away by the NFL coach, and not the other direction.  I guess Saban moved onto to Alabama, but probably had to resign from MIA to do it.  

 

Seems a very lawyerly issue.

 

You may be right.  Just pointing out a difference in the two situations.

[cdgacoltsfan]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is a losing strategy by you. Would you like a mulligan?

No...an answer will suffice.

[Superman]

Just now, DougDew said:

Thinking about this a bit.  Rhule got hired away from Baylor...not fired.  Rhule was not really a free agent coach to be free to sign anywhere.

 

Rhule was fired from CAR, so was sort of a free agent to be hired by any college. 

 

I can see Rhule's side where on one hand he was hired away by CAR, so they would pay Baylor's contract, but the other he was fired by CAR, so NEB would not be responsible for CAR contract.  CAR would be wrong to blend the salaries as a calculation.  

 

You may be right.  Just pointing out a difference in the two situations.

 

I know they're not the same situation, but I pointed to that as a convenient example of how college contracts are honored by the NFL, and vice versa. 

 

In the end, it's the NFL tampering rule that dictates whether a coach's guaranteed salary will be paid by the prior team, or offset by the new team. And the quote in that article doesn't offer a distinction between NFL team and college team. It also makes it pretty clear that it's up to the NFL commissioner to determine if/how the offsets will be applied, in the event that there are substantial compensation increases. Like I said, I don't know if this was resolved, or how, but the grievance doesn't appear to have anything to do with Rhule going to a college team. 

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

No...an answer will suffice.

 

It's called "mitigation." 

 

Andrew Brandt: https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/19/business-of-football-end-of-season-coaches-fired

 

Quote

 

Mitigation

Guarantees in coaching contracts are offset guarantees, meaning the firing team’s financial liability is reduced if and when the coach secures work and is paid by another team during the term of the contract. While the firing team has an obligation to pay off the contract, the fired coach has a duty to mitigate, meaning he has an obligation to seek and find a similar coaching position with another team (that can be a college team as well). In other words, the fired coach cannot simply sit and collect his paycheck; he has to mitigate and try to find another job, with the payments from the new job offsetting the amount owed from the firing team.

 

Having dealt with this issue from both sides, having represented the team side in a couple of these cases as well as the coach’s side, I know the issue of the duty to mitigate is a sticky one. And it is extremely hard to enforce.

 

 

See, it's not that hard to provide a reference for something that's established fact.

[Superman]

49 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, everything you read goes back to a rumor or speculation:

 

 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article282364208.html

 

https://atozsports.com/houston/texans-cj-stroud-plays-in-the-panthers-firing-frank-reich-nfl-news/

 

Yeah, all speculation. People really latched onto a comment Reich made a few weeks ago about Tepper not being the guy who will stay away, he's going to be involved, etc. That was spun into a narrative that Tepper forced the QB decision. Except, Reich was taking questions about his weekly contact with Tepper, especially in light of the fact that the team was losing every week. This was in October. The draft decision and even the play of the QB wasn't being discussed. Reich was talking about Tepper's overall management.

 

Anyway, I haven't seen anything from anyone connected to the Panthers that supports this conclusion. That doesn't mean it isn't true, and I'm not rejecting it because it's not believable. I'm pushing back against the narrative that this must be true, because 'Reich never would have wanted Young.' 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

First coach to be fired in back-to-back seasons let alone in season!

 

He should never have been hired but that's why they are the Panthers. 

A impatient meddling owner who knew he made a mistake and whoever in charge of selecting Bryce young was a mistake, especially seeing how Stroud is lighting up the league and how AR5 looked and also Levis. I think Young will be a serviceable QB but not with someone like Reich in charge and maybe get away from the Dysfunctional organization that drafted him. 

 

It was a good 24 hours for me as the colts won and currently the 7th seed and Reich getting embarrassed being let go in season after only 11 games there.   As most of you know I'm not a fanboy of Frank and the criticism he got from me and others was warranted, though I know he has fans in this forum and talking heads.

 

Bottom line is the colts are better off without him as will be the Panthers.....and having a guaranteed contract of $9mil annually isn't exactly devastating to him and his bank account. 

My advice to him is stay away from coaching and enjoy your millions. 

 Not true, there’s been 3 fired in back to back seasons, most notably Chip Kelly

[Superman]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

 Not true, there’s been 3 fires in back to back seasons, most notably Chip Kelly

 

I think the distinction is first HC to be fired midseason in back to back seasons. Chip Kelly was fired midseason (actually end of year, before the final game) by the Eagles, but he was fired the next year by the Niners after their final game.

[NFLfan]

Wow. That's awful. I am not a proponent of firing coaches in fewer than 3 full years.

 

Who will want to work for this owner? The Athletic put out a list of names. The Lions OC Ben Johnson was the first one listed. Why would he want to go there? I read that the Bears are interested in the same head coach. Why would he choose the Panthers over the Bears who may select another top QB. Or the Chargers.

 

Other names listed were

Eagles OC Brian Johnson,

49ers DC Steve Wilks (why would he want to go there??),

Jim Harbaugh,

Bill O'Brien,

Bill Belichick,

Texans OC Bobby Slowik

and some Panthers assistants.

 

https://theathletic.com/5093608/2023/11/27/carolina-panthers-coaching-candidates-david-tepper?source=user-shared-article

 

Bill Belichick maybe??

 

Former Panthers TE Greg Olsen is also interested.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I would think that in most situations, the college coach gets hired away by the NFL coach, and not the other direction.  I guess Saban moved onto to Alabama, but probably had to resign from MIA to do it.  

 

Yeah, Saban is the biggest example. Bobby Petrino is another one. Both of those were a relatively long time ago, before the Internet really cared about contract specifics, so I couldn't find anything about the guarantees in those cases.

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

It's called "mitigation." 

 

Andrew Brandt: https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/01/19/business-of-football-end-of-season-coaches-fired

 

 

See, it's not that hard to provide a reference for something that's established fact.

You're amazing! My hero!!! You're the best!!!

[Superman]

1 hour ago, John Waylon said:

After living with frank for the years we did I just cannot see him, even in his frank-est of frank moments, agreeing with even the premise of Young over Stroud. I just can’t see it. Especially in a new environment with a fresh start in what was likely his last chance. Even frank has come out today and said this was probably the end of his NFL journey. He had to make an “all-in” type bet on himself and finally drafting a QB and I just can’t see what would lead him to be ok with making that bet with Young over any of the other 3. I don’t like Levis more than Young by any stretch, but I’d rather bet on Levis to save my bacon over Young, and it’s hard for me to think of frank feeling differently. 
 

Conversely, however, I can see tepper dictating that move and being the “architect” behind going to #1 to get him. His history as an owner is spotty at best, and I feel I’m being kind labeling it in a light even that positive. He got duped into hiring Rhule, would it really be surprising to find that he was also duped by the Young hype? 
 

I just can’t see frank wanting Young for his last bet on himself in the league. If I had to guess I’d say tepper indicated that he wanted Young, and frank just went along with it to avoid rocking the boat after getting a new deal and tried to do his best. Who knows.
 

Whatever it was, the ingredients combined for nothing more than a ridiculous %show, and in the end that’s exactly what we got from it. I can’t say I’m even a little bit surprised by it. 

 

First thing about this, it's a little revisionist. Bryce Young looks terrible right now, but in April, he was highly regarded, people spoke well of him, and probably half or more mock drafts had him going #1 to the Panthers. The only knock that was regularly acknowledged was his size, and consensus opinion was 'he's accurate enough and processes well enough that he has a chance to make up for his size.' For any team to have Bryce Young as QB1 before the draft was not considered shocking or even controversial.

 

To the bolded, I could see someone saying 'even in his Jim-est of Jim moments, I could not see Jim Irsay agreeing with the premise of Young over Stroud.' There's considerable overlap between Irsay's QB history and Reich's QB history -- big bodied guys, strong arms, pocket passers, etc. Whatever you think Reich's prototypical QB prospect is, you'd probably say Irsay would see it the same way, right? But Jim Irsay sat in front of Indy media in February 2023 and big-upped Bryce Young in a press conference. My point is that before the draft, a lot of real football people really liked Bryce Young.

 

Also consider, Reich said that he went to bat for Carson Wentz in Indy. Reich was instrumental in Philip Rivers signing with the Colts. Then he gets hired by the Panthers, partly because of his history with QBs. He has a four year contract, fully guaranteed, and the owner and GM are so determined to get a QB in the draft that they trade up two months before the draft. But Reich is too shy to pound the table for his guy? (Even if that is the case, I wouldn't feel sorry for him. That's his own failing.)

 

I get the narrative. It's not hard to follow, and it's even somewhat convincing. I'm just asking for something to support the narrative, other than speculation and conjecture. It's admittedly stubborn of me to keep pushing back on this, but it makes my eye twitch when this rumor gets repeated as if it's established fact, when it's obviously not.

[RollerColt]

29 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Wow. That's awful. I am not a proponent of firing coaches in fewer than 3 full years.

 

Who will want to work for this owner? The Athletic put out a list of names. The Lions OC Ben Johnson was the first one listed. Why would he want to go there? I read that the Bears are interested in the same head coach. Why would he choose the Panthers over the Bears who may select another top QB. Or the Chargers.

 

Other names listed were

Eagles OC Brian Johnson,

49ers DC Steve Wilks (why would he want to go there??),

Jim Harbaugh,

Bill O'Brien,

Bill Belichick,

Texans OC Bobby Slowik

and some Panthers assistants.

 

https://theathletic.com/5093608/2023/11/27/carolina-panthers-coaching-candidates-david-tepper?source=user-shared-article

 

Bill Belichick maybe??

 

Former Panthers TE Greg Olsen is also interested.

I don’t see how Bill would want to put up with that crap for his final go at coaching. If he indeed coaches again, it will be meticulously planned and he’ll want a team that’s not a smoking crater. 
 

I think Ben Johnson backed out the last time didn’t he? Or was that our very own Steichen?

[Superman]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

You're amazing! My hero!!! You're the best!!!

 

I'll take this as confirmation that your "it's been reported" comment was a fabrication.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

But Jim Irsay sat in front of Indy media in February 2023 and big-upped Bryce Young in a press conference. My point is that before the draft, a lot of real football people really liked Bryce Young.

Speculation on my part:

 

Is it possible Jim was screwing with the rest of the league and baiting other teams into taking Young since, in the words of he and Ballard, we wanted Richardson all along? 

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Speculation on my part:

 

Is it possible Jim was screwing with the rest of the league and baiting other teams into taking Young since, in the words of he and Ballard, we wanted Richardson all along? 

 

I think it's possible that Irsay was kind of trolling when he said that. But I don't think they had decided that Richardson was their guy in February. 

 

My larger point is that a lot of football people liked Bryce Young before the draft.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Frank has never wowed me with his coaching.  Like, with him, it was always the players that wowed me more.  I rarely said to myself “man, that was a great call by the coach” with frank.  I’ve said that pretty often this year with Shane.  And outside of Pittman, downs, and moss…who has really shined on offense this year as far as weapons goes?

 

Steichen schemed up a wacky 4th down play to our least athletic skill player, and it went for 30 yards. I think Tommy Tremble can match anything Mo Alie Cox can do. But on 4th and 6, the Panthers throw bubble screens.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Steichen schemed up a wacky 4th down play to our least athletic skill player, and it went for 30 yards. I think Tommy Tremble can match anything Mo Alie Cox can do. But on 4th and 6, the Panthers throw bubble screens.

The best screen plays I ever witnessed were Manning’s Broncos in 2013. Either Decker or Thomas would just straight up maul defensive backs, while the other blew past everyone in ludicrous speed. 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

The best screen plays I ever witnessed were Manning’s Broncos in 2013. Either Decker or Thomas would just straight up maul defensive backs, while the other blew past everyone in ludicrous speed. 

 

Yeah, they were on another level. I love a good screen play. I think the timing element is heavily dependent on the QB; as soon as Rivers got here, suddenly the Colts were a good screen team, and as soon as he left, that ability went away.

 

In the Panthers case, screens have been something like 30% of their passing game, and on 4th and 6 with the game on the line, coming out of the two minute warning, you would expect one of your best plays to be called. I just thought the contrast between Steichen's call and Reich's call was telling, especially when we're talking about offensive weapons.

[NFLfan]

46 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I don’t see how Bill would want to put up with that crap for his final go at coaching. If he indeed coaches again, it will be meticulously planned and he’ll want a team that’s not a smoking crater. 
 

I think Ben Johnson backed out the last time didn’t he? Or was that our very own Steichen?

 

It was Ben Johnson.

[RollerColt]

12 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

It was Ben Johnson.

So I think we can cross him off the list, at least if I were him I would go for the Chargers. Johnson with Herbert would be on paper a good partnership. 

[RollerColt]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, they were on another level. I love a good screen play. I think the timing element is heavily dependent on the QB; as soon as Rivers got here, suddenly the Colts were a good screen team, and as soon as he left, that ability went away.

 

In the Panthers case, screens have been something like 30% of their passing game, and on 4th and 6 with the game on the line, coming out of the two minute warning, you would expect one of your best plays to be called. I just thought the contrast between Steichen's call and Reich's call was telling, especially when we're talking about offensive weapons.

And he had to know his job was on the line at that point. 

[John Waylon]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

First thing about this, it's a little revisionist. Bryce Young looks terrible right now, but in April, he was highly regarded, people spoke well of him, and probably half or more mock drafts had him going #1 to the Panthers. The only knock that was regularly acknowledged was his size, and consensus opinion was 'he's accurate enough and processes well enough that he has a chance to make up for his size.' For any team to have Bryce Young as QB1 before the draft was not considered shocking or even controversial.

 

To the bolded, I could see someone saying 'even in his Jim-est of Jim moments, I could not see Jim Irsay agreeing with the premise of Young over Stroud.' There's considerable overlap between Irsay's QB history and Reich's QB history -- big bodied guys, strong arms, pocket passers, etc. Whatever you think Reich's prototypical QB prospect is, you'd probably say Irsay would see it the same way, right? But Jim Irsay sat in front of Indy media in February 2023 and big-upped Bryce Young in a press conference. My point is that before the draft, a lot of real football people really liked Bryce Young.

 

Also consider, Reich said that he went to bat for Carson Wentz in Indy. Reich was instrumental in Philip Rivers signing with the Colts. Then he gets hired by the Panthers, partly because of his history with QBs. He has a four year contract, fully guaranteed, and the owner and GM are so determined to get a QB in the draft that they trade up two months before the draft. But Reich is too shy to pound the table for his guy? (Even if that is the case, I wouldn't feel sorry for him. That's his own failing.)

 

I get the narrative. It's not hard to follow, and it's even somewhat convincing. I'm just asking for something to support the narrative, other than speculation and conjecture. It's admittedly stubborn of me to keep pushing back on this, but it makes my eye twitch when this rumor gets repeated as if it's established fact, when it's obviously not.

Absolutely Young was highly touted pre-draft, but he wasn’t universally loved. There’s plenty of people who had reservations about him making this transition. I certainly did, and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind yet. In fact, at this point I feel stronger about it than I did in April. He didn’t enter the draft as the unquestioned golden boy.
 

I put absolutely no stock into anything Irsay said about Young. Irsay was living his best life and trolling people with twitter posts about Bears and the #1 pick from the moment the season ended until the draft started. We can’t sit around in February, March, and April and go on endlessly about how it’s “lying season” whenever a team or an executive talks about any player and then dust those comments made then back off at the end of November to ply them as truth. 
 

Personally, I’d be willing to bet that if Irsay had the top pick back in April it still wouldn’t have been Young. But that’s neither here nor there, Irsay is not the subject here. 
 

I can’t get inside of frank’s head to tell you what QB he wanted out of this group. I asked nicely and he still said no. But going off of pretty much everything he’s ever said and done as a HC it all points to Stroud. It points right to Stroud. All of it. And he clearly didn’t make wholesale changes to his approach as a HC so Carolina got the same exact guy we had. 
 

Maybe frank did stand on the table for Stroud and tepper just didn’t care and did whatever he wanted to do anyways. What could frank do in that case anyways? Is tepper that bad of an owner? You certainly can’t just outright dismiss the idea with all of his other missteps, including hiring frank. Maybe tepper is just an unhinged *. Or maybe he’s not unhinged and he’s just a run-of-the-mill * that didn’t have enough sense to familiarize himself with his new head coach and his history, particularly his struggles of trying to win without having his hand-picked QB. 
 

But if at any point in the pre-draft process frank went along willingly with Young over Stroud then he’s just as much to blame for his fate and an unhinged (or run-of-the-mill,) * as tepper. It was a pairing that raised eyebrows right out of the gate for all of the reasons I’ve mentioned, and there’s not a lot of shock that it didn’t fly. The only surprise is in how quickly the divorce came. 
 

Whether it was tepper’s decision alone, tepper and the GM, or tepper the GM and frank in on the decision, incompetence permeated the room. They worked themselves into a no-win corner and then they compounded mistakes with mistakes. 

[smittywerb]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Steichen schemed up a wacky 4th down play to our least athletic skill player, and it went for 30 yards. I think Tommy Tremble can match anything Mo Alie Cox can do. But on 4th and 6, the Panthers throw bubble screens.

 

Yup, how many times as colts fans have we seen a play that was schemed short of the sticks with Reich?  Screens, Hines up the gut, short in route to Pittman, etc.

 

 

[Superman]

47 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I can’t get inside of frank’s head to tell you what QB he wanted out of this group. I asked nicely and he still said no. But going off of pretty much everything he’s ever said and done as a HC it all points to Stroud. It points right to Stroud. All of it. And he clearly didn’t make wholesale changes to his approach as a HC so Carolina got the same exact guy we had. 

 

Let me counter with this. What NFL HC -- offensive minded, defensive minded, or otherwise -- would describe his prototypical QB prospect in a way that reminds you of Bryce Young? There isn't one. He's no one's prototype. And yet, the NFL world in general thought highly of him before the draft, and he was pretty much a lock to go near the top of the draft because there are some desirable traits that were considered offsetting. My point is that I don't think your read of Reich's comments and history is definitive when it comes to his viewpoint of Bryce Young. 

 

Quote

 

Maybe frank did stand on the table for Stroud and tepper just didn’t care and did whatever he wanted to do anyways. What could frank do in that case anyways? Is tepper that bad of an owner? You certainly can’t just outright dismiss the idea with all of his other missteps, including hiring frank. Maybe tepper is just an unhinged *. Or maybe he’s not unhinged and he’s just a run-of-the-mill * that didn’t have enough sense to familiarize himself with his new head coach and his history, particularly his struggles of trying to win without having his hand-picked QB. 
 

But if at any point in the pre-draft process frank went along willingly with Young over Stroud then he’s just as much to blame for his fate and an unhinged (or run-of-the-mill,) * as tepper. It was a pairing that raised eyebrows right out of the gate for all of the reasons I’ve mentioned, and there’s not a lot of shock that it didn’t fly. The only surprise is in how quickly the divorce came. 
 

Whether it was tepper’s decision alone, tepper and the GM, or tepper the GM and frank in on the decision, incompetence permeated the room. They worked themselves into a no-win corner and then they compounded mistakes with mistakes. 

 

 

You'll see nothing resembling a defense of Tepper from me. I just don't think Reich is incapable of falling for a bad QB prospect, despite what everyone thinks. The idea that Reich simply could not have wanted Young, and therefore this has to be Tepper's doing, is a step too far for me. I don't know why Reich is being quarantined away from the Young decision.

 

I also don't find the idea that Tepper would inject himself into the decision, and I would not be shocked to find that he did just that. 

 

We agree that Tepper is a problem, has made bad decisions, and deserves the bulk of the blame for the state of the team right now.

[OLD FAN MAN]

10 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

It's been reported that Frank wanted to take CJ Stroud with the #1 pick, but Tepper wanted Young. I wonder if the Panthers took CJ , do you think the Texans would have taken Young or Richardson? 

i am surprised young went in the first round at all, as i said at draft time he is too tiny for the nfl

[luv_pony_express]

19 hours ago, RollerColt said:

Another thing: the head coach should not have to be meeting with the owner on a weekly basis. Especially to one that has no clue how football works. 

 

I remember we locally had a dentist family (very wealthy) decide that they wanted to own and run a Steak 'n Shake in our area. They had no experience with the food industry, and instead of hiring a very competent manager to run the show, they instead decided to meddle with everything. The restaurant only lasted a few years before eventually going out of business. 

 

To all you wealthy overlords out there: do yourself a favor and step back and have someone with EXPERIENCE run your little fun side project. Because unlike you, the people working in that side project are trying to make a living! 

 

This is why I dislike the wealthy, and have a negative bias towards them. They've screwed my family, my town and my very way of life all for their own selfishness. 

 

/end rant. 

You’re painting with an awfully broad brush.  Everybody is different and unique, and deserves to be measured on their own merits — not merely on things like the size of their bank

accounts.

[DougDew]

For the discussion about who wanted Young....Reich or Tepper...check out WalterFootball's "firing grade" for Reich.  (The site is a PITA to load so I'll let y'all find it yourselves).

 

He says "The coaching staff wanted Stroud but Tepper picked Young".  WF could be simply spreading the logical inference many have made, but reading his site over the years tells me that he does have a decent level of inside contacts into NFL teams and their scouting world.   

[jvan1973]

Frank is owed 60+ million dollars to not coach.   I wish we were all that lucky

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

For the discussion about who wanted Young....Reich or Tepper...check out WalterFootball's "firing grade" for Reich.  (The site is a PITA to load so I'll let y'all find it yourselves).

 

He says "The coaching staff wanted Stroud but Tepper picked Young".  WF could be simply spreading the logical inference many have made, but reading his site over the years tells me that he does have a decent level of inside contacts into NFL teams and their scouting world.   

And from a FoxNews article on the firing.

 

Panthers team owner David Tepper reportedly urged the team to pick Young over Stroud.

 

It depends upon the definition of "reportedly".  The author could be just cutting and pasting somebody else's sloppy reporting.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

And from a FoxNews article on the firing.

 

Panthers team owner David Tepper reportedly urged the team to pick Young over Stroud.

 

It depends upon the definition of "reportedly".  The author could be just cutting and pasting somebody else's sloppy reporting.

 

I think we've just reached the point where this rumor has propagated, and is now accepted as fact because it's been repeated so many times. I still haven't seen even a mild reference to a source.

 

Meanwhile, Reich and Tepper have directly stated that everyone wanted Bryce Young, it was unanimous, the owner didn't force the pick, etc. Sure, they could be putting up a front, but again, can we get some evidence that what they're saying isn't true? Now that people have started getting fired, maybe we'll hear otherwise. Josh McCown is out, but was doing a lot of web videos last year. There's audio of him talking to CJ Stroud about living in Carolina before the draft, maybe he'll address the rumors.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Frank is owed 60+ million dollars to not coach.   I wish we were all that lucky

 

It's only about $30m, according to Andrew Brandt. I'd get fired for $60m, don't know if I'd do it for $30m... 😉

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just saw comments from Tepper. This guy is an ego maniac. If I was young I would ask for a trade before my career is ruined.

 

[Colts1324]

17 hours ago, RollerColt said:

So I think we can cross him off the list, at least if I were him I would go for the Chargers. Johnson with Herbert would be on paper a good partnership. 

If McDermott gets fired, the Bills will be the best head coach opening in recent times. I imagine Johnson would be most linked there.

 

The Bears, Patriots, & Chargers will all be great openings as well. The Bears & Patriots look to be in a position to have one of Williams/Maye/Penix Jr. Herbert will have about every coach interested as well.  

[RollerColt]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's only about $30m, according to Andrew Brandt. I'd get fired for $60m, don't know if I'd do it for $30m... 😉

 

 

Oh you and your standards LOL...

 

Regarding the Tepper - Young rumors, even the media is now repeating it. They are clarifying it as a rumor but it's apparently what everyone's talking about. 

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

If McDermott gets fired, the Bills will be the best head coach opening in recent times. I imagine Johnson would be most linked there.

 

The Bears, Patriots, & Chargers will all be great openings as well. The Bears & Patriots look to be in a position to have one of Williams/Maye/Penix Jr. Herbert will have about every coach interested as well.  

Yep. 

 

And these coordinators are going to have a lot of options. Schefter is hearing we could be seeing an additional SIX to EIGHT more head coaches fired between now and the day after the season ends!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If true Reich not adjusting to fit his QB is insane.