Talent level moving forward

[bluephantom87]

 

I was watching Mel Kiper talk about the top qbs coming out and he said the Colts are NOT just a qb away. Mel said he's been HEARING about the Colt's having one of the better rosters for YEARS but look at where they're at. Kiper basically said that the Colts talent level is overrated. More national shows have concluded that very sentiment more and more as the years pass. Many don't see our skill players on offense outside JT or Pittman as anything special. Even Pittman is looked at as a #2 (3 on some teams) big possession type that lacks the EXPLOSION needed to be a top flight receiver 1.

 

I think JMV asked Ballard some pointed questions at the combine. JMV inquired about Ballard changing his approach on trying to aquire ELITE outside of drafting without all out saying that after six years his team build has achieved very little results. He also asked Ballard how many SPECIAL players does he believe is on this roster right now. JMV spoke on the Chiefs roster of special players that seems to replenish by pointing to the fact that Ballard came from that organization WITHOUT saying we're not seeing the same vision here.

 

Like I've always said this is a SOLID roster but not good enough to even win the division. I see two (Young and Stroud) special qbs in this draft and a possible one in Richardson who has limited starts but has an extremely high ceiling of untapped raw talent. We might not be a qb away but it's a start.

[crazycolt1]

For every Kiper there is another so called guru that says opposite. Isn't Kiper the one that said Mahomes was going to be a bust? 

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

I was watching Mel Kiper talk about the top qbs coming out and he said the Colts are NOT just a qb away.

Teams that go 4-12 usually aren't just a QB away.  I would think that fans would understand this truth to the degree that it would be common knowledge instead of having to be defended.

[Flash7]

A couple of thoughts on this:

 

1. The QB position will have the greatest impact on enabling our offensive talent to be properly showcased. It's difficult to see exactly what we have at our offensive positions when we've had so much turnover and inconsistency at QB.

 

2. Bigger is not always better at WR. Ballard seems to focus way too much on height when it comes to this position (all 6'2" or taller - Pittman, Pierce, Dulin, Pascal, Strachan, D. Patmon, with Coutee and P. Campbell as the exceptions at 6') . Colts fans understand that our best All-time WRs are M. Harrison (6' tall) R. Wayne (6' tall ) and T.Y. Hilton (5'10' tall). We really should be focused on finding the best WRs based on talent.

 

3. As we saw this year, if the offense cannot sustain drives, it negatively affects the defense. It makes our defensive talent look worse because they are often asked to play in tough situations (after a turnover) or are asked to play too much, (inconsistent time of possession by offense).

 

I think that overall talent level is good. Definitely better than it appeared this year due to the failed Matt Ryan experiment. But it's not great and without a legitimate QB, we will continue to struggle. 

[Indyfan4life]

9 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

A couple of thoughts on this:

 

1. The QB position will have the greatest impact on enabling our offensive talent to be properly showcased. It's difficult to see exactly what we have at our offensive positions when we've had so much turnover and inconsistency at QB.

 

2. Bigger is not always better at WR. Ballard seems to focus way too much on height when it comes to this position (all 6'2" or taller - Pittman, Pierce, Dulin, Pascal, Strachan, D. Patmon, with Coutee and P. Campbell as the exceptions at 6') . Colts fans understand that our best All-time WRs are M. Harrison (6' tall) R. Wayne (6' tall ) and T.Y. Hilton (5'10' tall). We really should be focused on finding the best WRs based on talent.

 

3. As we saw this year, if the offense cannot sustain drives, it negatively affects the defense. It makes our defensive talent look worse because they are often asked to play in tough situations (after a turnover) or are asked to play too much, (inconsistent time of possession by offense).

 

I think that overall talent level is good. Definitely better than it appeared this year due to the failed Matt Ryan experiment. But it's not great and without a legitimate QB, we will continue to struggle. 

I recall at one time pointing out #3 specifically, which got me laughed at. It was painfully obvious that all of the turnovers, 3 and outs and punting from deep within our territory  negatively affected the defense. 

[indyagent17]

46 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Teams that go 4-12 usually aren't just a QB away.  I would think that fans would understand this truth to the degree that it would be common knowledge instead of having to be defended.

Anybody can see you were not just a quarterback away. We need to show up the offensive line! We need a number one receiver, and we need help at corner and at linebacker. If this is done correctly, most that can be solved in the draft, but Ballard needs to change his thinking and use free agency find other key players that may elite

[BProland85]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. This team has good talent. It has been very poorly coached and prepared for years now. With quality coaching and finding the right young QB to execute the offense, this team can certainly win this weak AFC South as no other team scares me. 

[jbaron04]

If we had a QB it would heal a lot of our troubles. I’m not saying the talent isn’t overrated but we haven’t gotten close to our ceiling, because of the lack good QB play. Also lack of creativity and exclusivity of franks system. Frank never did a good job of putting players In the best positions to succeed and playing them to their strengths. Just some examples Taylor played with a full back in college why not have a full back on team and call some real run plays not shotgun draws every time. Hines play call was draw up the middle for 1 yard gain. Pittman 5-7 yard slant when he is a deep 50-50 ball type and was explosive on the run after catch in college. Campbell never got any deep shots in the slot when he ran a 4.3 and set sweeps and such at Ohio state. Frank had his system and it wasn’t adapted to players. Like how do other teams have receiving TE types like jimmy ghram and zack ertz and could always get them on field but woods would get 1-8 snaps ?

[NJFanatic]

I too agree the defensive struggles are do to poor offensive output. We can win this division with better QB and o'line play. With Rivers we made the playoffs and gave Buffalo all they could handle. Then with Wentz we should have done the same except for a couple TERRIBLE decisions he made (IE: Tenn left hand pick 6) we should  have made the playoffs. We all know Matt Ryan was disaster (shoulda stuck with Wentz imo) We can get to the playoffs and maybe win a game with this roster IF it can stay healthy. No Taylor and Leonard didn't help the cause last season.

[sb41champs]

All "talking heads" are getting $$$ to talk.

 

Just remember the all-out "dumpster fire" that Ballard inherited.

 

Looking forward to this years draft.

 

I DO agree that we are NOT "just a QB" away - but - it's essential that we have stability moving forward at that position.

[Solid84]

I’m of the opinion we lack talent and the roster had been overrated for a long time. 
 

Guess hiring Shane and the gang and drafting a QB will have to give some good results pretty fast for that not to be true. I still think we’re at least 2-3 years away from winning the division. 

[lollygagger8]

[bluephantom87]

12 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. This team has good talent. It has been very poorly coached and prepared for years now. With quality coaching and finding the right young QB to execute the offense, this team can certainly win this weak AFC South as no other team scares me. 

 

Me personally I believe the Steichen hire was a huge because I also believe that bad coaching played a major part. I think Shane will build an offense to cater around different skillsets including the young qb. Now two things can be true at the same time also. There are some talented players on this roster but OVERALL I believe it's a solid one (that's not a knock) void of a couple of true superstars on offense. If one of the young TEs can blossom into a top tier threat and if we can aquire a top wr1 then I believe that we can compete for the division even with a talented rookie qb at the helm.

 

I still think that we need an ELITE de on defense and a ball hawking free safety. I love Paye's motor but the Colts are asking him to become something he's NEVER been - a high sack guy. IF Leonard can come back full strength then the defense will automatically elevate to another level but that's a big IF. I think this will be an important draft for  Ballard. One that should look for speed and explosion that produced at a high level from some of the best college football teams overall.

 

 

[Hawkeyecolt]

Kiper says Levis is the #1 QB in the draft. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

23 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

Me personally I believe the Steichen hire was a huge because I also believe that bad coaching played a major part. I think Shane will build an offense to cater around different skillsets including the young qb. Now two things can be true at the same time also. There are some talented players on this roster but OVERALL I believe it's a solid one (that's not a knock) void of a couple of true superstars on offense. If one of the young TEs can blossom into a top tier threat and if we can aquire a top wr1 then I believe that we can compete for the division even with a talented rookie qb at the helm.

 

I still think that we need an ELITE de on defense and a ball hawking free safety. I love Paye's motor but the Colts are asking him to become something he's NEVER been - a high sack guy. IF Leonard can come back full strength then the defense will automatically elevate to another level but that's a big IF. I think this will be an important draft for  Ballard. One that should look for speed and explosion that produced at a high level from some of the best college football teams overall.

 

 

Rodney Thomas had 4 INT’s as a rookie and his closing speed was special.  I think he’s the FS for a long time. If Leonard can return to his previous level I think the defense is a pass rusher away from being elite. 

[bluephantom87]

30 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Rodney Thomas had 4 INT’s as a rookie and his closing speed was special.  I think he’s the FS for a long time. If Leonard can return to his previous level I think the defense is a pass rusher away from being elite. 

 

You are correct. I forgot about Thomas who has some size too. I was thinking of needing one due to Julian Blackmon's injuries.

[throwing BBZ]

35 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Rodney Thomas had 4 INT’s as a rookie and his closing speed was special.  I think he’s the FS for a long time. If Leonard can return to his previous level I think the defense is a pass rusher away from being elite. 

What we lack on defense is A Lot! Gus doesn't know how to coach that good of a D. Maybe Steichen can coach him up.

[hoosierhawk]

I think when so may thought we were a QB away from being a contender our OL was rated one of the better OLs in the league. Last year the OL was a disaster as was the QB play which effected our overall performance. Coaching played a part as some have pointed out.

[crazycolt1]

29 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

I think when so may thought we were a QB away from being a contender our OL was rated one of the better OLs in the league. Last year the OL was a disaster as was the QB play which effected our overall performance. Coaching played a part as some have pointed out.

Coming out of the Rivers season it wasn't a bad take to believe we were a QB away. We could have very well won the playoff game against Buffalo. We had multiple pro bowl players and a top rated O-line and defense. It was dumbfounding to see the drop-off this team suffered.  

[bluephantom87]

35 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Kiper says Levis is the #1 QB in the draft. 

 

Yikes!!! Then throw whatever Kiper says out the window then.... ESPECIALLY if he also said that Mahomes was going to be a BUST as crazycolt1 pointed out. Levis must be his nephew or something because his erractic Wentz like play SCREAMS of potential bust combined with his poor on field decision making.

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Coming out of the Rivers season it wasn't a bad take to believe we were a QB away. We could have very well won the playoff game against Buffalo. We had multiple pro bowl players and a top rated O-line and defense. It was dumbfounding to see the drop-off this team suffered.  

Especially the drop off of the OL. 

[RollerColt]

Is this supposed to be some shocking revelation? I think most realize where the team stands right now. Only a select few believe the team will be competitive next season. Most of us realize it’s a small rebuild happening and it’s going to take time. 

[crazycolt1]

33 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Is this supposed to be some shocking revelation? I think most realize where the team stands right now. Only a select few believe the team will be competitive next season. Most of us realize it’s a small rebuild happening and it’s going to take time. 

I know rebuild is a term that hardly anyone wants to use. You even tried to soften it by saying a small rebuild. Imo, anytime a new QB, HC and numerous coaches are hired, it's a rebuild no matter how you want to word it.  With that said, I truly think we have an edge on most teams picking in the top five. Maybe that sounds like  Fandom speak but I do believe it.  

[John Hammonds]

19 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

I was watching Mel Kiper talk about the top qbs coming out and he said the Colts are NOT just a qb away. Mel said he's been HEARING about the Colt's having one of the better rosters for YEARS but look at where they're at. Kiper basically said that the Colts talent level is overrated. More national shows have concluded that very sentiment more and more as the years pass. Many don't see our skill players on offense outside JT or Pittman as anything special. Even Pittman is looked at as a #2 (3 on some teams) big possession type that lacks the EXPLOSION needed to be a top flight receiver 1.

 

I think JMV asked Ballard some pointed questions at the combine. JMV inquired about Ballard changing his approach on trying to aquire ELITE outside of drafting without all out saying that after six years his team build has achieved very little results. He also asked Ballard how many SPECIAL players does he believe is on this roster right now. JMV spoke on the Chiefs roster of special players that seems to replenish by pointing to the fact that Ballard came from that organization WITHOUT saying we're not seeing the same vision here.

 

Like I've always said this is a SOLID roster but not good enough to even win the division. I see two (Young and Stroud) special qbs in this draft and a possible one in Richardson who has limited starts but has an extremely high ceiling of untapped raw talent. We might not be a qb away but it's a start.

I agree with you in this:

 

This team has a lot of "good" players.  But it has precious few "great" players.  There really isn't anyone on this roster that other teams would be afraid of.  Nobody that is going to do something amazing in a game, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.  And thus, we've reached a limit on games we can win.  Yes, you can make the playoffs with this type of roster, but not the superbowl.

 

Ballard took over a team that was at the end of its run, with all of its veterans at the end of their careers, and ineffective.  And he did what any reasonable GM would do -- he traded down, stockpiled 2nd round picks, and filled the roster with players that are pretty good.  Turned the team around.

However, along in the process, we never spent 1st round picks on any truly frightening players. (2018 on a generational Guard, 2020 traded for a talented DT, and 2021 on a high effort DE.)

 

We need to spend 1st round picks on dominating players at high impact positions.  Gotta get people afraid to play us.

[Matabix]

I think improving the offense with help the improvement of the defense the most.

 

I agree that Ballard is too hung up on size, which I've said in the past he would've never drafted Freeney or Mathis if he was GM at the time. 

 

Last off season our run game which really was our only threat to score took a huge hit. We lost a WR that run blocks like a TE. A TE that blocks like a 6th OL. A guard and tackle that run block like all pros. 

 

It's about to get worse, while I still want them on the team. Pittman will be paid like a #1 WR, when he's really a #2. Paris will get paid like a #2 when he should get paid like a #3. Paris getting paid like a #2 won't hurt as much. He was top 5 WR getting separation last year. 

 

Ballard has said he really likes the TE room. While I think Woods will be a great TE2. Neither him or MAC is a TE 1.

[Defjamz26]

It’s not that the talent level is overrated. It’s that we don’t have talent at the positions that really matter. LT, Edge, WR, and CB (long term so I’m not counting Gillmore). All the other premium positions outside of QB we lack elite talent at. That gets exposed against better teams. It’s cute to play a team like the Raiders and your best players are at LG and LB, but when you play the Bills, Bengals, etc… you’ll get exposed like that. Even though we beat the Superbowl champs and hung In there with the Eagles, that’s not sustainable.

 

The Colts are years away until they fill those premium positions.

[tfunky14]

Combination of the O-line gets back to their 2021 form and good QB play will raise the talent alone. 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree with you in this:

 

This team has a lot of "good" players.  But it has precious few "great" players.  There really isn't anyone on this roster that other teams would be afraid of.  Nobody that is going to do something amazing in a game, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.  And thus, we've reached a limit on games we can win.  Yes, you can make the playoffs with this type of roster, but not the superbowl.

 

Ballard took over a team that was at the end of its run, with all of its veterans at the end of their careers, and ineffective.  And he did what any reasonable GM would do -- he traded down, stockpiled 2nd round picks, and filled the roster with players that are pretty good.  Turned the team around.

However, along in the process, we never spent 1st round picks on any truly frightening players. (2018 on a generational Guard, 2020 traded for a talented DT, and 2021 on a high effort DE.)

 

We need to spend 1st round picks on dominating players at high impact positions.  Gotta get people afraid to play us.

 

I'm as down on this squad as anyone, but Taylor's breakaway speed scares teams.  The key is you just need to get him moving sideways.  Once you do that, he racks up as many negative runs as anyone.  Taylor is a guy that usually needs good  holes to get to the 2nd and 3rd levels, but once he does that, he's as dangerous as anyone I recall seeing.

 

I don't want Richardson with the 4th pick, but he and JT running read option plays would make DCs pee down their legs.

 

Other than JT, I agree, there is no one who scares people and Taylor is after all just a running back which is far towards the bottom of the 2020s NFL totem poll of importance. 

 

I also agree that they need impact talent at DE, LT, WR or TE, and QB.  The most difficult positions to find that kind of talent. 

 

[Patrick Miller]

I don’t think the Colts are that far away. They aren’t just a qb away but….plug in a good qb….an impact player at WR….upgrade the center and guard positions……we could see a dramatic turn around. Lots of time to address these issues……free agency starts in a few days….

[Myles]

Mel Kiper isn't always correct.  I have no use for him.  

 

For those discussing the size of WR's, here are the heights of the past 5 receiving yards leaders:

6'1

6'2

6'0

6'3

6'3

 

[philba101]

19 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Kiper says Levis is the #1 QB in the draft. 

According to the latest reports the Colts scouting staff are buzzing about Levis too.

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, philba101 said:

According to the latest reports the Colt scouting staff are buzzing about Levis too.

 

His arm and release are electric.  It's an interesting place to be at 4 this year.

[bluephantom87]

59 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I agree with you in this:

 

This team has a lot of "good" players.  But it has precious few "great" players.  There really isn't anyone on this roster that other teams would be afraid of.  Nobody that is going to do something amazing in a game, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.  And thus, we've reached a limit on games we can win.  Yes, you can make the playoffs with this type of roster, but not the superbowl.

 

Ballard took over a team that was at the end of its run, with all of its veterans at the end of their careers, and ineffective.  And he did what any reasonable GM would do -- he traded down, stockpiled 2nd round picks, and filled the roster with players that are pretty good.  Turned the team around.

However, along in the process, we never spent 1st round picks on any truly frightening players. (2018 on a generational Guard, 2020 traded for a talented DT, and 2021 on a high effort DE.)

 

We need to spend 1st round picks on dominating players at high impact positions.  Gotta get people afraid to play us.

 

Spot on. When you say things like solid roster, good players, a few talented sprinkled with some JAG types that are being overpaid for what they do is just a view compared to some of the upper tier teams. JT alone can't be your whole offense.  Truth is that more IMPACT players are needed on this roster at the SKILL positions (qb being #1) to compete for a division title at a minimum and necessary to eventually compete for a SB.

 

The COMBINED philosophy of Ballard's old school team build, Reich's nothing special approach to game planning or his non imaginative type offense, the team's CHOSEN path of meh type vets at the qb position YEARS after Luck's departure (while others have moved up and DRAFTED young franchise qbs in that SAME span) and the decline of the highest paid o-line have ALL contributed to the teams sub .500 record under Ballard's helm that has garnered little to no results in the grand scheme of nfl contention. Team talent is good but not special enough overall. We are STILL missing an ELITE de on defense.

 

I believe Ballard has nailed the hc hire. I also believe that if the Colts can go and get one of the "special" qbs to go along with a top flight wr that their fortunes can change very quickly. The o-line can be addressed in FA or the draft. 

 

 

[philba101]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

His arm and release are electric.  It's an interesting place to be at 4 this year.

I actually prefer Stroud if he is still there but after watching tape on Levis, I came away impressed. The ball does pop out of his hand very quickly.  I made the note when I was watching film that it almost looks like he is slinging the ball sometimes to get rid of it quickly. I am not convinced about his mobility which could be an issue if we can't get our o-line fixed. The same argument can be made about Stroud although he has shown some flashes of mobility. I know this sounds strange but I was kind of hoping that the Colts would choose a different style QB than we are use to. For whatever reason Levis seems very much like a typical Colts choice.

[Nickster]

21 minutes ago, philba101 said:

I actually prefer Stroud if he is still there but after watching tape on Levis, I came away impressed. The ball does pop out of his hand very quickly.  I made the note when I was watching film that it almost looks like he is slinging the ball sometimes to get rid of it quickly. I am not convinced about his mobility which could be an issue if we can't get our o-line fixed. The same argument can be made about Stroud although he has shown some flashes of mobility. I know this sounds strange but I was kind of hoping that the Colts would choose a different style QB than we are use to. For whatever reason Levis seems very much like a typical Colts choice.

Levis seems mobile enough.  I don't have any concern there.  He can even run.  He had close to 400 yds rushing in 21 with a couple 100 yd games.   His arm talent is as good as it gets with just a few exceptions if you combine his touch, arm strength, and rare release.

 

He's basically a genius with the books, but so was Harvard economics major, Ryan Fitzmagic.

The only concern I have with Levis is the same one with Fitz.  Dumb throws.  Dumb situations.  

 

Seems kinda funny too because both men probably would score at genius level on an IQ test.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Mel Kiper isn't always correct.  I have no use for him.  

 

For those discussing the size of WR's, here are the heights of the past 5 receiving yards leaders:

6'1

6'2

6'0

6'3

6'3

 

When it comes to the draft, NO ONE is always right.   Same with free agency.  
 

Bill Belichick is the best HC of all-time and he’s made many mistakes in both the draft and FA.   
 

Bill Polian is among the best GMs of all-time and he’s made countless mistakes.   When you’re in the business of judging other human beings EVERYONE makes mistakes.   It comes with the job.   The key is to minimize mistakes, make fewer than the other guys.   But no one is always right.  Not even close.  

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Mel Kiper isn't always correct.  I have no use for him.  

 

For those discussing the size of WR's, here are the heights of the past 5 receiving yards leaders:

6'1

6'2

6'0

6'3

6'3

 

My issue with Ballard’s approach to WRs (and a lot of players in general) is he’s to hung up on measurables. I mean, for every “ideal” sized WR putting up numbers there’s a shorter WR doing the same. It just seems to me like Ballard is only looking at half of available options because of he’s so hung up on height. 

[bluephantom87]

7 hours ago, philba101 said:

According to the latest reports the Colts scouting staff are buzzing about Levis too.

 

Oh boy... I think that's because the Colts will sit back and WAIT for one of the qbs to FALL to them at 4. More than likely it will be Levis. If Hooker had not gotten hurt Levis would not have even been in that consensus top four of qbs. Is this the same staff that saw something in Ehlinger or the big armed Jacob Eason? Levis BEST passing season was a tad under Eason's best. Let that sink in. The big armed Levis couldn't even beat out a guy named Sean Clifford at Penn State after multiple seasons thus the transfer to Kentucky where he did nothing special. Yes his draft tape highlights some good throws but trust me there's PLENTY of bad ones.

 

McShay likened him to Wentz with his poor pocket awareness and bad decision making. He also didn't like Levis late in ballgames with the high turnover rate. I'm not speaking on hearsay by agreeing because I watched MANY of his games and was not impressed with his ERRACTIC play. Too sloppy for my liking and I just don’t see SPECIAL. Like I said before Wentz, Mitch T, J Russell, Winston, Todd M, Leaf, Cutler and Jeff George to name a few ALL had big arms but their on field decision making had their teams seeking better options in the long run.

 

 

[1959Colts]

The offensive line must be improved and we really need a top tier pass rusher.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:20 AM, bluephantom87 said:

 

I was watching Mel Kiper talk about the top qbs coming out and he said the Colts are NOT just a qb away. Mel said he's been HEARING about the Colt's having one of the better rosters for YEARS but look at where they're at. Kiper basically said that the Colts talent level is overrated. More national shows have concluded that very sentiment more and more as the years pass. Many don't see our skill players on offense outside JT or Pittman as anything special. Even Pittman is looked at as a #2 (3 on some teams) big possession type that lacks the EXPLOSION needed to be a top flight receiver 1.

 

I think JMV asked Ballard some pointed questions at the combine. JMV inquired about Ballard changing his approach on trying to aquire ELITE outside of drafting without all out saying that after six years his team build has achieved very little results. He also asked Ballard how many SPECIAL players does he believe is on this roster right now. JMV spoke on the Chiefs roster of special players that seems to replenish by pointing to the fact that Ballard came from that organization WITHOUT saying we're not seeing the same vision here.

 

Like I've always said this is a SOLID roster but not good enough to even win the division. I see two (Young and Stroud) special qbs in this draft and a possible one in Richardson who has limited starts but has an extremely high ceiling of untapped raw talent. We might not be a qb away but it's a start.

https://nfltraderumors.co/colts-c-ryan-kelly-reportedly-on-trade-block/