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JediXMan

By JediXMan
in Colts Football

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NewColtsFan

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13 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

What FA WR would you like to sign with the Colts?  For me I would like to sign slot/speed guys to compliment Pittman. Guys like Godwin, Christian Kirk, Gallup, 

 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/


Interesting that you should use the list from Spotrac.   They have all of the guys you list in roughly the range of $11-16m per over 3-5 years.   
 

I just don’t see Ballard spending that kind of money in a FA, when Pittman is due to get his second contract a year from now.   
 

My current FA WR hope is Marquez Valdez-Scantling (sp?).    I think he’s averaged 15-17 yards a reception in each of his 4 seasons.  I’m guessing/hopeful he could be signed for somewhere around 3/18-3/20.   I think that’s a typical Ballard type of signing. 

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Smoke317

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Godwin & Gallup are both coming off ACL tears late in the season.  I just don’t know if it’s receiver where Wentz needs help.  He needs a tight end.  He can’t read the field very well. He needs that big body target that can get open right in front of him.  So go get Ertz.  And draft a receiver in the draft (I know that hasn’t been CB’s strong suit).  That puts the pressure on Carson, Frank, & CB to all get it right. No more excuses for Carson & Frank.  And no more Banogu’s & Campbell over AJ Brown, Metcalf, & McLaurin for CB.

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EastStreet

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Interesting that you should use the list from Spotrac.   They have all of the guys you list in roughly the range of $11-16m per over 3-5 years.   
 

I just don’t see Ballard spending that kind of money in a FA, when Pittman is due to get his second contract a year from now.   
 

My current FA WR hope is Marquez Valdez-Scantling (sp?).    I think he’s averaged 15-17 yards a reception in each of his 4 seasons.  I’m guessing/hopeful he could be signed for somewhere around 3/18-3/20.   I think that’s a typical Ballard type of signing. 

MVS is more of an X, which we don't need. He's got great speed (so he could play other spots), but his route running is shoddy, and like Patmon, doesn't really play to his 6-4 size. If we were a risk it biscuit team that tossed a lot of deep shots, maybe, but we're heavy possession, and he's just not a great fit for that. He's just a slightly faster version of Patmon and Strachan, with several holes.

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GoColts8818

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15 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

I think an ideal off season to improve the Colts weapons is sign one of the above. Then sign Zach Ertz to replace a likely retiring Doyle. Finally drafting one in the draft. Also if Doyle retires how much do the Colts save in cap?

I assume you mean by finally drafting one you mean tightend.  They did just last year.  Yes I know his rookie campaign wasn’t much to write home about but sometimes it takes a rookie a little while to develop.  Look at Rock as an example.  Still yes they have to do something about the tightend spot because not only is Doyle retiring or being released very possible but Cox is also a free agent.

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NewColtsFan

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42 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

MVS is more of an X, which we don't need. He's got great speed (so he could play other spots), but his route running is shoddy, and like Patmon, doesn't really play to his 6-4 size. If we were a risk it biscuit team that tossed a lot of deep shots, maybe, but we're heavy possession, and he's just not a great fit for that. He's just a slightly faster version of Patmon and Strachan, with several holes.


Do you have a mid-priced WR in mind?   

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EastStreet

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12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Do you have a mid-priced WR in mind?   

 

Honestly I'd prefer to draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd. 

As far as FAs are concerned, depends on what we're looking for (Z or slot). 

 

The only FA I like to be honest is Kirk (can play slot or Z), but I think he'd be wasted in our O if we have him running a bunch of possession routes like we have done to most all of our speed guys the last several years. If we'd stretch the field more, I think he'd be great, and I'd be happy paying him. 

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NewColtsFan

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Honestly I'd prefer to draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd. 

As far as FAs are concerned, depends on what we're looking for (Z or slot). 

 

The only FA I like to be honest is Kirk (can play slot or Z), but I think he'd be wasted in our O if we have him running a bunch of possession routes like we have done to most all of our speed guys the last several years. If we'd stretch the field more, I think he'd be great, and I'd be happy paying him. 


I also want to draft someone in the 2nd if 3rd round.   I was thinking both draft pick and FA signing.    
 

Honestly your list on the draft page I think has our next draft pick on it.   Shaker, the Boise kid,  has caught my eye.  Love what I’ve read.   I’ll post more on him soon.   That list is going to get used a lot in the next 3 1/2 months.   

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EastStreet

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7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


I also want to draft someone in the 2nd if 3rd round.   I was thinking both draft pick and FA signing.    
 

Honestly your list on the draft page I think has our next draft pick on it.   Shaker, the Boise kid,  has caught my eye.  Love what I’ve read.   I’ll post more on him soon.   That list is going to get used a lot in the next 3 1/2 months.   

 

I like Shakir too, but not sure how he'll translate at the NFL level. Not sure his 40 will be where it needs to be, and the scheme he comes from can be a concern. If he runs a low 4.4s or better 40, I think his stock will rise. If he's high 4.4s or 4.5, I think he'll drop. Good kid. I think his best chance is at slot, in a more dynamic (Boise-like) O. 

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Indeee Active Roster

Indeee

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10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


Interesting that you should use the list from Spotrac.   They have all of the guys you list in roughly the range of $11-16m per over 3-5 years.   
 

I just don’t see Ballard spending that kind of money in a FA, when Pittman is due to get his second contract a year from now.   
 

My current FA WR hope is Marquez Valdez-Scantling (sp?).    I think he’s averaged 15-17 yards a reception in each of his 4 seasons.  I’m guessing/hopeful he could be signed for somewhere around 3/18-3/20.   I think that’s a typical Ballard type of signing. 

MVS is terrible and would be a horrible signing. Don't care about a Ballard type of signing here. MVS has been a classic under achiever in an offense desperate for talent outside of Adams with arguably the best QB in the league and you suggest he might be brought here to a receiving core desperate for talent with a QB nowhere near Rodger's ability? The play is Michael Gallup regardless of the money. Gallup hands down is the one you go after. IMHO we could've had him this year if the Colts ponied up a third. Now the question remains if Dallas will resign Gallup and release Cooper. Cooper is older, banged up, etc. Pairing Gallup with lamb for years to come would be smartest move for Dallas but time will tell if they pull that trigger

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Imgrandojji

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WRs are not high on my acquisition list right now.  I might feel diffeerently if we had a better man under center but I just can't trust Wentz to make good decisions with the football, and anyone who replaces him will make even less efficient use of our WRs.

 

Besides, Pittman is legit and a WR corps can be built around him, the declining but still talented Hilton, and some good supporting players.

 

My big FA acquisition on offense would be a good blocking TE.  People on this board severely underrate the significance of TEs in the run game, it's nonoptional to have good run blocking if you're going to be a run first offense, which we almost have to be right now. 

 

Quite frankly I think people underrate TEs at the run because Doyle has been so good at the job for years now.  While Doyle is a great blocker he's only one guy, he's getting old and has been hurt a fair bit, we can't rely on him quite like we used to.  MAC's only average at blocking.  We could use another big body, or at least one that focuses on the TE's role in a rushing attack rather than as a pass catcher (which both Doyle and MAC are decent at).

 

I think fans are still used to Manning's and Luck's teams where we win by the big arm and the big WR.  We don't have a quarterback that we can trust to win games through the air so going big at WR is only playing to existing weaknesses.  We need to build around Taylor, not Wentz, and some help at TE in the run blocking game is a big part of what will get us there from here.

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IndyEric07 Team Captain

IndyEric07

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14 minutes ago, Indeee said:

MVS is terrible and would be a horrible signing. Don't care about a Ballard type of signing here. MVS has been a classic under achiever in an offense desperate for talent outside of Adams with arguably the best QB in the league and you suggest he might be brought here to a receiving core desperate for talent with a QB nowhere near Rodger's ability? The play is Michael Gallup regardless of the money. Gallup hands down is the one you go after. IMHO we could've had him this year if the Colts ponied up a third. Now the question remains if Dallas will resign Gallup and release Cooper. Cooper is older, banged up, etc. Pairing Gallup with lamb for years to come would be smartest move for Dallas but time will tell if they pull that trigger

Id say no on Gallup now after he just tore his ACL! Thats all we need is another injured wr! I dont want the Colts to become the NFL version of the Pacers for crying out loud!

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Imgrandojji

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10 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Godwin & Gallup are both coming off ACL tears late in the season.  I just don’t know if it’s receiver where Wentz needs help.  He needs a tight end.  He can’t read the field very well. He needs that big body target that can get open right in front of him.  So go get Ertz.  And draft a receiver in the draft (I know that hasn’t been CB’s strong suit).  That puts the pressure on Carson, Frank, & CB to all get it right. No more excuses for Carson & Frank.  And no more Banogu’s & Campbell over AJ Brown, Metcalf, & McLaurin for CB.

Ertz is the right solution to the wrong problem.  He's big, but he's primarily a pass catcher, and plays quarterback football.  We don't have a world beating quarterback. 

 

We do have a world beating RB and for the last several years we've been a run team.   We need to think about each position based on how they support the run, not how they take passes, because we don't have an elite passer. 

 

Ertz is like Kelce, physical enough to dominate small defenders but dismally soft on the line.    His job is to be faster than linebackers and bigger than cornerbacks and safeties.  Lot of TEs like that, but it's a poor fit here where we WILL be asking him to block for Taylor which is not what he does best.  I'd rather pick up a block first TE like James O'Shaughnessy, who's carved a nice little niche for himself in Jacksonville as a block first TE, or Jonnu Smith, who underperformed his contract on NE and might be on the chopping block, then rely on Ertz to play to his weaknesses.

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chad72

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Option A: Wentz likes big WRs, so go after Allen Robinson to be across Pittman. Then get a speedy slot in the draft and Ertz as a safety blanket in the middle for Wentz, a Day 3 TE in the draft as well.

 

Option B: If Allen Robinson is out of the price range, then get the speedy slot Christian Kirk in FA, Ertz as a safety blanket in the middle for Wentz, get a big outside WR in the draft, and a Day 3 TE in the draft as well.

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Nesjan3

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Rumors are a float that Ertz wants to be a Colts and Ballard will be taking a serious look at him. He and Wentz are best friends. As far as WR, it seems they are coming out of college ready to rock the NFL nowadays. Ballard just needs to hit on one.

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MPStack

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1 minute ago, Nesjan3 said:

Rumors are a float that Ertz wants to be a Colts and Ballard will be taking a serious look at him. He and Wentz are best friends. As far as WR, it seems they are coming out of college ready to rock the NFL nowadays. Ballard just needs to hit on one.

 

Source?

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Indyfan4life

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5 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Rumors are a float that Ertz wants to be a Colts and Ballard will be taking a serious look at him. He and Wentz are best friends. As far as WR, it seems they are coming out of college ready to rock the NFL nowadays. Ballard just needs to hit on one.

Yeah, I'd like a source on this please.

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Smoke317

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5 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Ertz is the right solution to the wrong problem.  He's big, but he's primarily a pass catcher, and plays quarterback football.  We don't have a world beating quarterback. 

 

We do have a world beating RB and for the last several years we've been a run team.   We need to think about each position based on how they support the run, not how they take passes, because we don't have an elite passer. 

 

Ertz is like Kelce, physical enough to dominate small defenders but dismally soft on the line.    His job is to be faster than linebackers and bigger than cornerbacks and safeties.  Lot of TEs like that, but it's a poor fit here where we WILL be asking him to block for Taylor which is not what he does best.  I'd rather pick up a block first TE like James O'Shaughnessy, who's carved a nice little niche for himself in Jacksonville as a block first TE, or Jonnu Smith, who underperformed his contract on NE and might be on the chopping block, then rely on Ertz to play to his weaknesses.

I understand what you’re saying but if we keep Wentz we have to give him somebody that he’s comfortable throwing the ball to.  And if you check his history he likes to target his primary tight end 100 plus times a year.  We saw this year that teams can and will stack the box vs JT and force Wentz to beat them.  
 

Most good QB’s would feast in that scenario but Wentz clearly couldn’t. So we have to get him a fast pass catching tight end that he trusts.  Now if we get rid of Wentz then we can add some other pieces on the perimeter and get a mauling run blocking tight end but we’re gonna have to improve throwing the ball to have better balance.  And Wentz must have a game breaking tight end because he can’t read the defense very well.

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Nesjan3

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6 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

Source?

 

3 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Yeah, I'd like a source on this please.

I just heard it from this Jason Spears guy on his podcast for the Colture. He knows someone in the building. He is almost always right or close to it when he offers inside info. Believe it or not dont matter to me but he rarely wrong.

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DougDew

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Honestly I'd prefer to draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd. 

As far as FAs are concerned, depends on what we're looking for (Z or slot). 

 

The only FA I like to be honest is Kirk (can play slot or Z), but I think he'd be wasted in our O if we have him running a bunch of possession routes like we have done to most all of our speed guys the last several years. If we'd stretch the field more, I think he'd be great, and I'd be happy paying him. 

If designing a WR staff in the perfect world, I agree.

 

Another hybrid like Pittman would work too.  Part of Ballard and Frank's problems are trying to get cute with the analytics, role playing, specific traits and then developing the guy into that role they envision.

 

We want a guy that does this, because we already have a guy that does that.

 

Sometimes you just need to go out and get a guy who is simply better football player than what you have. 

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Smoke317

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9 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Rumors are a float that Ertz wants to be a Colts and Ballard will be taking a serious look at him. He and Wentz are best friends. As far as WR, it seems they are coming out of college ready to rock the NFL nowadays. Ballard just needs to hit on one.

Frank should’ve known that Carson needed that tight end safety blanket.  Especially after Wentz struggled early in the season because he couldn’t get in sync with Doyle.  I’m sure he thought Jack could get the job done but he should’ve seen that Carson & Jack just couldn’t consistently get on the same page.  Then went & begged Ballard to bring over Carson’s best friend Ertz to be the only other guy that he could consistently see besides Pittman.  
 

As far as receiver, I can’t trust Carson enough to spend big money on a free agent receiver when Carson can’t read the defense and get the ball out on time.  It would be better to draft a guy just in case Carson’s limitations remain.  Especially if it’s a slot guy.

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NewColtsFan

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36 minutes ago, Indeee said:

MVS is terrible and would be a horrible signing. Don't care about a Ballard type of signing here. MVS has been a classic under achiever in an offense desperate for talent outside of Adams with arguably the best QB in the league and you suggest he might be brought here to a receiving core desperate for talent with a QB nowhere near Rodger's ability? The play is Michael Gallup regardless of the money. Gallup hands down is the one you go after. IMHO we could've had him this year if the Colts ponied up a third. Now the question remains if Dallas will resign Gallup and release Cooper. Cooper is older, banged up, etc. Pairing Gallup with lamb for years to come would be smartest move for Dallas but time will tell if they pull that trigger


I live Michael Gallup.   Would be thrilled to sign him.   But I don’t see where the money is coming from?  
 

Spotrac projects him getting $11.6 mill per over four years.    I don’t see where that money is coming from?    As for MVS….  Terrible?   He’s averaged between 15-17 yards per catch every year for 4 years.   If that’s terrible, please sign me up!   I hope Patmon and Strachan become that terrible for the Colts!   
 

I know what you want.  I’m looking for realistic.   What’s affordable?  Maybe it’s Wilson for the Cowboys?  He’s looked good down the stretch. 

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MPStack

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5 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

 

I just heard it from this Jason Spears guy on his podcast for the Colture. He knows someone in the building. He is almost always right or close to it when he offers inside info. Believe it or not dont matter to me but he rarely wrong.


Weird considering Ertz isn’t even a FA yet and they can’t begin negotiations. I believe that would be tampering.

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John Hammonds

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I'll throw some other WR's from the list into this conversation, and see what people think:

  • JuJu Smith-Schuster, PIT,  age 25 AAV $8mm coming off injury, only 5 games played
  • Sammy Watkins, BAL, age 28 AAV $5mm played 13 games only 394 yards

I agree that Christian Kirk is probably the best target for us to go after, since he's, in effect, the third receiver on that team, got over 1,000 yards, and is gonna be asking for a lot more than they're paying him now.

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JediXMan

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7 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I'll throw some other WR's from the list into this conversation, and see what people think:

  • JuJu Smith-Schuster, PIT,  age 25 AAV $8mm coming off injury, only 5 games played
  • Sammy Watkins, BAL, age 28 AAV $5mm played 13 games only 394 yards

I agree that Christian Kirk is probably the best target for us to go after, since he's, in effect, the third receiver on that team, got over 1,000 yards, and is gonna be asking for a lot more than they're paying him now.

season 1 GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants
 

Naw lol.

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Rhodelesstraveled

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Allen Robinson is the best choice.  Goodwin is a stud but he won't make a huge impact in 2022 because of his late ACL tear.  Plus I think TB is going to bring him back if TB stays plays again.  Kirk is a JAG.  He really is a third WR and not a one or two.  

Schuster and Watkins are hot garbage in my view.  Third WRs at best.  

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