Key season for Braden Smith

[AustexColt]

I rewatched the 2023 season. I suggest you watch Game 4 vs the Rams. Braden Smith was healthy but was beaten on pass and ineffective on run plays. As a veteran player he does not deserve the pay that Ballard raised him too. I understand he is coming back from surgery, so I am hoping for the best. 

[throwing BBZ]

30 minutes ago, AustexColt said:

I rewatched the 2023 season. I suggest you watch Game 4 vs the Rams. Braden Smith was healthy but was beaten on pass and ineffective on run plays. As a veteran player he does not deserve the pay that Ballard raised him too. I understand he is coming back from surgery, so I am hoping for the best.  

 

 I have never been his biggest fan.

This said, when healthy he has been a superb run blocker. Our QB's have always had to be on high alert when he has been up against speed rushers. He has never had a consistently good RG beside him. 

 All we can do is let them play and see just how good the unit can be in a new year.

[Scott Pennock]

His replacement is already on the roster so he's playing for his next contract for someone else. I would suspect we'll get a good year out of him.

[AwesomeAustin]

I thought he was our highest graded OL but missed some games bc of injury. I would say his play isn’t the problem, it’s his availability. Let’s hope he has a healthy season. 

[NewColtsFan]

All of the following is my opinion….

I think 2024 is the last year for Ryan Kelly and then Bortolini takes over in 25.   
 

I think Smiths last year is 2025, and I think the Colts will draft a RT to replace Smith in 25 and the kid will start for the Colts in 26.   
 

I think Goncalves might take over at RG for Fries, but almost no one realize Fries graded in the top 40 percent of all guards, so there will be good competition at the spot.  

 

I think the Colts are using the next few years to rebuild the Colts offensive line for the near future… 

[TheNewGuy]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

All of the following is my opinion….

I think 2024 is the last year for Ryan Kelly and then Bortolini takes over in 25.   
 

I think Smiths last year is 2025, and I think the Colts will draft a RT to replace Smith in 25 and the kid will start for the Colts in 26.   
 

I think Goncalves might take over at RG for Fries, but almost no one realize Fries graded in the top 40 percent of all guards, so there will be good competition at the spot.  

 

I think the Colts are using the next few years to rebuild the Colts offensive line for the near future… 

 

We seem to have the same thought process...Plus Smith has a $19,750,000.00 cap hit next year.  The OP is correct, it is a big year for him.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/braden-smith/6922

 

[AwesomeAustin]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

All of the following is my opinion….

I think 2024 is the last year for Ryan Kelly and then Bortolini takes over in 25.   
 

I think Smiths last year is 2025, and I think the Colts will draft a RT to replace Smith in 25 and the kid will start for the Colts in 26.   
 

I think Goncalves might take over at RG for Fries, but almost no one realize Fries graded in the top 40 percent of all guards, so there will be good competition at the spot.  

 

I think the Colts are using the next few years to rebuild the Colts offensive line for the near future… 

Very well said!!  This is how I feel too. I think the Colts drafted these guys to develop and provide excellent backup play if needed. This will also allow the team to see if they are good enough to start when the time comes or they need to throw more draft capital at it. Either way the Colts are in the process of turning the OL 

 

Personally, I prefer high draft picks at the tackle spots bc it’s most likely to produce at an elite level. Of course, if one of these younger guys can produce that’s great. I just don’t want a serviceable starter that’s cheap. These tackles need to be franchise guys for 6-10 years. Easier said than done. 

[richard pallo]

Braden Smith is only 28 years old.  We just witnessed Ballard resign Grover at age 30 and Kenny at age 28.  He also extended Buckner at age 30.  Kelly is 30.  I would think that if Smith continues to perform at a high level this year he would have an excellent chance of getting extended next year like we did with Buckner.  That would lower his cap hit as well. Kelly is probably in a more vulnerable position if he wants to keep playing.  If the team really shows they are approaching Super Bowl contention he might want to return.  So much depends on his concussion issues and his performance and availability this year as well.  Fortunately we might have drafted his replacement this year.  Familiarity and continuity on the OL is very important as we know.  So I can see Ballard trying to keep it together as long as possible if the players continue to perform and our window remains open.  The good news is Ballard drafted for future needs on the OL this year.  I expect that will continue so I could see tackle being one of the higher picks next year.

 

[twfish]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

All of the following is my opinion….

I think 2024 is the last year for Ryan Kelly and then Bortolini takes over in 25.   
 

I think Smiths last year is 2025, and I think the Colts will draft a RT to replace Smith in 25 and the kid will start for the Colts in 26.   
 

I think Goncalves might take over at RG for Fries, but almost no one realize Fries graded in the top 40 percent of all guards, so there will be good competition at the spot.  

 

I think the Colts are using the next few years to rebuild the Colts offensive line for the near future… 

I do truly believe his replacement is here in Freeland. Freeland got thrust into playing time well before he was supposed to. An Uber athletic freak who needed a NFL strength and conditioning program. I think his ceiling is quite high. I also still like the idea of Jake Witt as the swing tackle.

[ADnum1]

Braden Smith seems to be the whipping boy on this board.

 

When healthy he's playing very well but everyone wants to move him to guard

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, ADnum1 said:

Braden Smith seems to be the whipping boy on this board.

 

When healthy he's playing very well but everyone wants to move him to guard

So true.  Many have been advocating moving him to guard for many years.  Eight years in and it still hasn’t happened.  Don’t think it ever will actually.  Especially since Fries has improved and he could continue to improve who knows.  It’s a top five OL.  Just continue to develop the depth so you have it when the time comes.

[Dark Superman]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

So true.  Many have been advocating moving him to guard for many years.  Eight years in and it still hasn’t happened.  Don’t think it ever will actually.  Especially since Fries has improved and he could continue to improve who knows.  It’s a top five OL.  Just continue to develop the depth so you have it when the time comes.

He's a top 10 RT in the league when healthy, so why would you want him to move back to guard?

[BProland85]

2 hours ago, ADnum1 said:

Braden Smith seems to be the whipping boy on this board.

 

When healthy he's playing very well but everyone wants to move him to guard

I think he just needs to stay healthy. If he can do that and not regress fans will love him. 

[twfish]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

So true.  Many have been advocating moving him to guard for many years.  Eight years in and it still hasn’t happened.  Don’t think it ever will actually.  Especially since Fries has improved and he could continue to improve who knows.  It’s a top five OL.  Just continue to develop the depth so you have it when the time comes.

Remember Reich tried to move him to RG before he was fired? It didn’t work, one of Saturdays first moved was to put him back to RT. To be fair though that was one of of Smith’s worst seasons, he was a turnstile and I think there are a lot of people who can’t remember anything else besides his bad play

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Remember Reich tried to move him to RG before he was fired? It didn’t work, one of Saturdays first moved was to put him back to RT. To be fair though that was one of of Smith’s worst seasons, he was a turnstile and I think there are a lot of people who can’t remember anything else besides his bad play

I think our entire OL regressed that year. OL coaching was not the best most likely.  Our new OL coach made a difference last year I would say.

[twfish]

17 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think our entire OL regressed that year. OL coaching was not the best most likely.  Our new OL coach made a difference last year I would say.

Honestly I feel like it was a good for Ballard to show how much good coaching truly does matter. To see that the talent he saw in these players when he drafted them (aside from Kelly) showed back up I’m sure was a massive confidence boost. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Remember Reich tried to move him to RG before he was fired? It didn’t work, one of Saturdays first moved was to put him back to RT. To be fair though that was one of of Smith’s worst seasons, he was a turnstile and I think there are a lot of people who can’t remember anything else besides his bad play

Smith has never been talked about being moved to guard except by fans.   It's not happening anytime soon

[GoColts8818]

35 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Smith has never been talked about being moved to guard except by fans.   It's not happening anytime soon

Exactly it’s the fantasy some fans have that won’t go away.

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, twfish said:

Remember Reich tried to move him to RG before he was fired? It didn’t work, one of Saturdays first moved was to put him back to RT. To be fair though that was one of of Smith’s worst seasons, he was a turnstile and I think there are a lot of people who can’t remember anything else besides his bad play

They did it for one game when they were trying anything that would stick.  Reich undid it the very next game.  It’s not like he tried it repeatedly.  

[twfish]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Smith has never been talked about being moved to guard except by fans.   It's not happening anytime soon

I think you misunderstood my point. I’m not advocating or want him to move to RG. I think he’s been a great RT for us. Simply saying that he did get moved to RG by Reich when they his play was down and they were grasping at straws to fix the line. That in itself does show that it’s been talked about by the FO enough that they actually did it.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

I think you misunderstood my point. I’m not advocating or want him to move to RG. I think he’s been a great RT for us. Simply saying that he did get moved to RG by Reich when they his play was down and they were grasping at straws to fix the line. That in itself does show that it’s been talked about by the FO enough that they actually did it.

They did it for one game and abandoned it,  also that head coach and oline coach are gone.  I don’t think it’s part of the plan anymore.  

[twfish]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

They did it for one game and abandoned it,  also that head coach and oline coach are gone.  I don’t think it’s part of the plan anymore.  

The argument was that he was never discussed as moving to right guard, that it was only a thing from fans. Well he was in fact moved to right guard by the Reich so it was clearly a thought process that had been discussed by more than just fans as it happened. I then stated that I don't want, nor advocated for him to be moved to RG.

 

I can try and break this down more if you'd like, but you're trying to argue against me like I am stating an opinion when I am stating a fact instead.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, twfish said:

The argument was that he was never discussed as moving to right guard, that it was only a thing from fans. Well he was in fact moved to right guard by the Reich so it was clearly a thought process that had been discussed by more than just fans as it happened. I then stated that I don't want, nor advocated for him to be moved to RG.

 

I can try and break this down more if you'd like, but you're trying to argue against me like I am stating an opinion when I am stating a fact instead.

You also said it was Saturday who undid it.  It wasn’t it was Reich the very next game.  That’s what I am pushing back against that this was some long term plan the Colts had.  I think most see the difference in a one game throw something at the wall to see if it sticks because you are desperate vs a long term plan that you are presenting it as.  
 

Dungy also moved Saturday to guard for a playoff game vs the Broncos in 03 does that mean the Colts had thoughts about moving Saturday to guard or was it a one game thing?

 

It’s also moot now as that coach and oline coach are no longer here and Shane has made it clear since he got here he has no plans of moving Smith to right guard.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Smith had a career year when he was in there last year on a bad knee.

[twfish]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

You also said it was Saturday who undid it.  It wasn’t it was Reich the very next game.  That’s what I am pushing back against that this was some long term plan the Colts had.  I think most see the difference in a one game throw something at the wall to see if it sticks because you are desperate vs a long term plan that you are presenting it as.  
 

Dungy also moved Saturday to guard for a playoff game vs the Broncos in 03 does that mean the Colts had thoughts about moving Saturday to guard or was it a one game thing?

 

It’s also moot now as that coach and oline coach are no longer here and Shane has made it clear since he got here he has no plans of moving Smith to right guard.

I'm sorry I misstated that it was Saturday that moved him back, IIRC Saturday had stated that Smith would be staying at RT and they were moving Raimann to LT and that's what I am remembering. Still never stated it was a long term plan, I even said it was Reich grasping at straws to try and fix the O-line.

 

It's the simple argument of someone stating that something never happened, when it had happened. Now you're somehow trying to argue that while trying to put words in my mouth. I never said it was a long term thing. YOU and I are on the same page and the same opinion that he should remain a RT and shouldn't be changed to RG

[#12.]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

The argument was that he was never discussed as moving to right guard, that it was only a thing from fans. Well he was in fact moved to right guard by the Reich so it was clearly a thought process that had been discussed by more than just fans as it happened. I then stated that I don't want, nor advocated for him to be moved to RG.

 

I can try and break this down more if you'd like, but you're trying to argue against me like I am stating an opinion when I am stating a fact instead.

 

Yeah, for one game.  Pinter was that bad.  Of any O-linenan the Colts actually went into the season with as a starter, Pinter might be the worst Colts O-lineman of the past 15-20 years.  Dude was tossed around like a rag doll.

 

The official investigation is still ongoing as to whether Matt Ryan fell off the cliff or was pushed off the cliff by Pinter and Pryor.

 

 

[w87r]

11 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Yeah, for one game.  Pinter was that bad.  Of any O-linenan the Colts actually went into the season with as a starter, Pinter might be the worst Colts O-lineman of the past 15-20 years.  Dude was tossed around like a rag doll.

 

The official investigation is still ongoing as to whether Matt Ryan fell off the cliff or was pushed off the cliff by Pinter and Pryor.

 

 

Or if he downed a Pinter, Pryor to going over.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

You also said it was Saturday who undid it.  It wasn’t it was Reich the very next game.  That’s what I am pushing back against that this was some long term plan the Colts had.  I think most see the difference in a one game throw something at the wall to see if it sticks because you are desperate vs a long term plan that you are presenting it as.  
 

Dungy also moved Saturday to guard for a playoff game vs the Broncos in 03 does that mean the Colts had thoughts about moving Saturday to guard or was it a one game thing?

 

It’s also moot now as that coach and oline coach are no longer here and Shane has made it clear since he got here he has no plans of moving Smith to right guard.

 

They were probably just willing to try anything in 2022. They suddenly found themselves with a regressed OL and a fumbling statue at QB, who was a sitting duck for outside pressure. Smith wasn't doing Ryan any favors in that regard, but one way around it in-season was to try to use your best OL players in the middle to create some space in the middle for Ryan to step up and avoid outside pressure.

 

I think it's more about injuries than anything at this point. It's hard to imagine an OL that still has Kelly and Smith on it in a couple of years. 

[shasta519]

14 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Yeah, for one game.  Pinter was that bad.  Of any O-linenan the Colts actually went into the season with as a starter, Pinter might be the worst Colts O-lineman of the past 15-20 years.  Dude was tossed around like a rag doll.

 

The official investigation is still ongoing as to whether Matt Ryan fell off the cliff or was pushed off the cliff by Pinter and Pryor.

 

 

 

At least Pryor had played solid in a part-time role the year before. Depending on Pinter to be the RG starter (when he had never played the position) was really misguided.

[#12.]

21 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

At least Pryor had played solid in a part-time role the year before. Depending on Pinter to be the RG starter (when he had never played the position) was really misguided.

 

Based on nothing, simply handing Pinter the starting RG job is the most questionable decision Ballard and company have made in 8 years. 

 

Pinter was an Indiana high school TE.  He looked like a high school TE from north of Indy trying to block NFL interior D-linemen. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, twfish said:

I'm sorry I misstated that it was Saturday that moved him back, IIRC Saturday had stated that Smith would be staying at RT and they were moving Raimann to LT and that's what I am remembering. Still never stated it was a long term plan, I even said it was Reich grasping at straws to try and fix the O-line.

 

It's the simple argument of someone stating that something never happened, when it had happened. Now you're somehow trying to argue that while trying to put words in my mouth. I never said it was a long term thing. YOU and I are on the same page and the same opinion that he should remain a RT and shouldn't be changed to RG

 

The idea that Smith could be a guard didn't originate with the fans at all. Smith was a guard in college, and Ballard viewed him as a guard prospect when they drafted him. The Colts had an opening at RT in 2018, and early in the season, they put Smith into the lineup at RT, and kept him there. 

 

That was a long time ago, and Smith has proven himself as a really good RT. His athleticism and technical ability have mostly compensated for his lack of length on the outside. But it's common for NFL tackles to move inside as they get older and their athleticism drops a notch.

 

I personally think guard play is just as important as tackle play, and RG is the weakest spot on the OL right now, so I have no problem with the idea of moving Smith inside, even if he's still performing well at RT. If -- IF -- it would improve the overall line play, it should be considered. The question is whether Smith would be an improvement at RG (I think he would), and whether we have a RT candidate who can take Smith's place without a significant drop off (I don't think we do, not yet). 

 

Acting like Colts fans just came up with this idea is revisionist. The Colts viewed Smith as a guard when they drafted him, and it's common for OTs to move inside. I'm not obsessed with the idea, but it's also not entirely wild-eyed.

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The idea that Smith could be a guard didn't originate with the fans at all. Smith was a guard in college, and Ballard viewed him as a guard prospect when they drafted him. The Colts had an opening at RT in 2018, and early in the season, they put Smith into the lineup at RT, and kept him there. 

 

That was a long time ago, and Smith has proven himself as a really good RT. His athleticism and technical ability have mostly compensated for his lack of length on the outside. But it's common for NFL tackles to move inside as they get older and their athleticism drops a notch.

 

I personally think guard play is just as important as tackle play, and RG is the weakest spot on the OL right now, so I have no problem with the idea of moving Smith inside, even if he's still performing well at RT. If -- IF -- it would improve the overall line play, it should be considered. The question is whether Smith would be an improvement at RG (I think he would), and whether we have a RT candidate who can take Smith's place without a significant drop off (I don't think we do, not yet). 

 

Acting like Colts fans just came up with this idea is revisionist. The Colts viewed Smith as a guard when they drafted him, and it's common for OTs to move inside. I'm not obsessed with the idea, but it's also not entirely wild-eyed.

And there is no issue having (2) big Guard contracts if your (2) Tackles are on rookie deals.

 

 

I'm not sure why so many doubters of the possibility, never seem to correlate it with common NFL practices, of tackles moving inside later in their career, to extend it.

 

 

Everyone just wants to be right about something, instead of looking objectively at it.

 

 

If Sparano thinks:

Raimann, Nelson, Kelly, Smith, Freeland/ or Goncalves 

 

Is better than:

Raimann, Nelson, Kelly, Fries, Smith

 

 

They will do it.

 

Also got Bortolini in there trying to battle for a spot.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

 

Based on nothing, simply handing Pinter the starting RG job is the most questionable decision Ballard and company have made in 8 years. 

 

Pinter was an Indiana high school TE.  He looked like a high school TE from north of Indy trying to block NFL interior D-linemen. 

 

I don't know if they handed him the job, but yeah, the OL depth in 2022 was severely lacking. I have always viewed Pinter as a center only, so starting him at guard wasn't my favorite decision. He started the first three games, then got benched. Ryan Kelly got hurt in Week 5 vs the Broncos, so Pinter finished that game, but didn't play more than five offensive snaps the rest of the season. So however they reached the decision to make him the opening day starter, at least they moved off that idea pretty quickly.

 

I think there have been far more egregious and more consequential decisions, by the way. Scott Tolzien in 2017 immediately comes to mind.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The entire Oline was bad in 22. Maybe Pinter would be ok at guard with a new head coach and OLINE coach. I don’t think you can take much away from 22. It was just bad.

[Superman]

37 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

The entire Oline was bad in 22. Maybe Pinter would be ok at guard with a new head coach and OLINE coach. I don’t think you can take much away from 22. It was just bad.

 

Yeah I would expect him to benefit from the new coaching staff also. But one of those benefits might be not trying to play him at guard when he's probably not physically suited for anything but center, IMO. That's where he played in 2021, I think that's where he should stay.

[w87r]

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2024/5/28/24166421/pff-lists-colts-starting-tackles-as-top-3-tandem

 

"Pro Football Focus released their top tackle rankings and the Colts’ duo is one of three teams whose starting tackles are both among the top 16. The Lions (Sewell no. 3, Decker no. 14) and Eagles (Mailata no. 5, Johnson no. 6) are those ahead of them. The Colts’ RT Braden Smith (15th) and LT Bernhard Raimann (16th) may rank the lowest of the three tandems in question, though to be included at all is quite the honor. The floor may have been established with the Colts’ starting tackle duo, but the ceiling these two can reach is undeniably high"

[BCMak24]

Braden smith has trouble with speed rushers he needs to improve in that area

[cbear]

I know he always grades out very high, but for whatever reason, I get nervous about his protection most everytime we pass. I have much more confidence in Rainmann.

[AwesomeAustin]

On 5/28/2024 at 6:48 PM, w87r said:

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2024/5/28/24166421/pff-lists-colts-starting-tackles-as-top-3-tandem

 

"Pro Football Focus released their top tackle rankings and the Colts’ duo is one of three teams whose starting tackles are both among the top 16. The Lions (Sewell no. 3, Decker no. 14) and Eagles (Mailata no. 5, Johnson no. 6) are those ahead of them. The Colts’ RT Braden Smith (15th) and LT Bernhard Raimann (16th) may rank the lowest of the three tandems in question, though to be included at all is quite the honor. The floor may have been established with the Colts’ starting tackle duo, but the ceiling these two can reach is undeniably high"

Would you look at that. Not sure what the discussion is about the OL besides boredom and possibly 2022 still lingering in one’s memory. I would say our OL is elite and if not, darn close. Probably our strongest position group on the team. It’s great there is depth being drafted and maybe 1-2 develops into a starter. I strongly feel we will invest high draft picks into the OL again in a couple years.