What if Paye and Dayo don’t pan out

[indyagent17]

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

[il vecchio]

More likely and interesting hypothetical that they both become All-Pro and Ballard gets an extension.

[stitches]

I doubt those two specific picks would spell the end of Ballard, but he sure as hell needs to start hitting on some of those high EDGE picks. 

[indyagent17]

4 minutes ago, il vecchio said:

More likely and interesting hypothetical that they both become All-Pro and Ballard gets an extension.

I hope so 

[WoolMagnet]

Try again?

[#12.]

2 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

 Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

 

Have a great Sunday, everyone, except Ballard, if you're reading this.

[smittywerb]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

I doubt those two specific picks would spell the end of Ballard, but he sure as hell needs to start hitting on some of those high EDGE picks. 

 

honestly, this and his lack of FA signings are my only gripes with him.  I think with a good pass rush, this defense would return to its old form.  Right now it seems the only serviceable edge we have is qwitty.

 

I think qwitty is going to be good.  He’s already getting pressure and I feel he’s still getting into his flow and peak physique.  
 

dayo has missed the most time so idk with him.

 

AQM is a good depth player right now which is fine.  
 

but if these 2 miss I do believe it’s going to set us back unless we can sign FA talent to mitigate them not panning out

[AwesomeAustin]

The defensive line is a speed rusher away from being top 10. Kwitty will not be a high sack guy but he will defend the run, set his edge and pressure the QB.  Dayo and Buckner will probably enjoy the cleanup sacks as Kwitty forced the QB to step up. Get a speed guy and it will be lights out.  I’m hating the way the defense is producing right now but they are honestly a DE and CB away from being the strength of this team when healthy. Emphasis on the healthy part. 

[#12.]

2 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

The defensive line is a speed rusher away from being top 10. Kwitty will not be a high sack guy but he will defend the run, set his edge and pressure the QB.  Dayo and Buckner will probably enjoy the cleanup sacks as Kwitty forced the QB to step up. Get a speed guy and it will be lights out.  I’m hating the way the defense is producing right now but they are honestly a DE and CB away from being the strength of this team when healthy. Emphasis on the healthy part. 

 

I know you're trying to be optimistic, but you just laid out the problem.  We just spent a 1st and a 2nd on pass rushers and still may need to go out and get the guy.  If, through 2021, Kwity and Dayo show no more than they have to date, you almost have to go out and add someone.

[John Hammonds]

If Kwity and Dayo don't work out, then the team will need to solidify a plan that Ballard can only draft on even numbered years, and Ed Dodds will draft on odd numbered years.

 

[AwesomeAustin]

2 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

I know you're trying to be optimistic, but you just laid out the problem.  We just spent a 1st and a 2nd on pass rushers and still may need to go out and get the guy.  If, through 2021, Kwity and Dayo show no more than they have to date, you almost have to go out and add someone.

They most definitely need to go out and get someone else. Chances are between Kwitty and Dayo only one will be starter material. I think Dayo will most likely be the one who is a role player and plays passing downs.  The line still needs the Freeney or Mathis type player that is fast and can bend.  Ballard should go DE again high in the draft and try to sign or trade for a CB.  

[B~Town]

We draft or sign someone else 

[GoColts8818]

5 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

Pretty sure Irsay isn’t going to fire Ballard for two draft picks not working out alone.  It’s going to take the Colts losing for a sustained period of time for Irsay to fire Ballard.  Granted missing on your top picks would increase the odds of that happening but that alone isn’t going to get Ballard fired.

[krunk]

I think Dayo is going to be a better interior rusher than outside. They are probably going to  have to draft another edge player or bring somebody in via FA to completely give us 4 solid players across the board. Paye is going to be fine. I think he's enough of an athlete to be like Tamba Hali or Justin Houston at some point. That's on the high end. On the low end probably Jabal Sheard.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I think Dayo is going to be a better interior rusher than outside. They are probably going to  have to draft another edge player or bring somebody in via FA to completely give us 4 solid players across the board. Page is going to be fine. I think he's enough of an athlete to be like Tamba Hali or Justin Houston at some point. That's on the high end. On the low end probably Jabal Sheard.

Yeah neither one was viewed as a Mathis or Freeney in the draft.  They were viewed closer to a Sheard and Autry type players to name guys Colts fans know.  

[CanuckColt]

7 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

No.

Ballard will continue to more draft D and neglect our skill positions at WR and TE by filling them with mid to late rounders and UDFAs.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, CanuckColt said:

No.

Ballard will continue to more draft D and neglect our skill positions at WR and TE by filling them with mid to late rounders and UDFAs.

So we are ignoring that he’s drafted two WRs in the second round and one of them has turned into a number one WR.  Also funny when people bring up struggles at skill positions no one ever mentions running back which is a skill position.  Maybe because Ballard has drafted three really good ones including maybe the best one in the league and that would mean giving Ballard credit and not just looking at faults.

[ClaytonColt]

It'll be fine. We'll just rely in Lewis and Turay for a bit longer, eventually we'll get the gratification won't we?

 

I'm pretty confident that Paye at least will eventually come good though. I'm not on board with praising him for pressures without any sacks though.  When it comes to getting to the QB I'm a big believer in close only counting in horseshoes and hand grenades.

[Zoltan]

7 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

What if they sprout wings?

What if Dayo switches to QB and plays well?

What if Paye has a 30 sack season?

What if........

[AwesomeAustin]

6 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

It'll be fine. We'll just rely in Lewis and Turay for a bit longer, eventually we'll get the gratification won't we?

 

I'm pretty confident that Paye at least will eventually come good though. I'm not on board with praising him for pressures without any sacks though.  When it comes to getting to the QB I'm a big believer in close only counting in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Good thing Kwitty has a horseshoe on his helmet!!

[Dingus McGirt]

Folks are pretty hard on a couple of rookies.

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Folks are pretty hard on a couple of rookies.

One of which is playing really well just not getting home yet and the other is coming off a major injury and is just two games in and had zero off-season or training camp snaps. 

[IinD]

We're Doomed.. Lol

[Jason_]

9 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

 

no

[csmopar]

19 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

Dayo has played two games. Paye is grading out very nicely and is looking better and better each week. Far too early to have this discussion.

[Dingus McGirt]

13 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

So we are ignoring that he’s drafted two WRs in the second round and one of them has turned into a number one WR.  Also funny when people bring up struggles at skill positions no one ever mentions running back which is a skill position.  Maybe because Ballard has drafted three really good ones including maybe the best one in the league and that would mean giving Ballard credit and not just looking at faults.

The descriptive you seek is "cherry-picking."  At one time or another, everyone one is guilty of it to support their assertion(s).  

[hoosierhawk]

Why not look at the positive during our break. Paye was just named to the mid year all rookie team and you are wondering if Ballard gets canned if he is a failure.  

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

yes

[Nickster]

16 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

The defensive line is a speed rusher away from being top 10. Kwitty will not be a high sack guy but he will defend the run, set his edge and pressure the QB.  Dayo and Buckner will probably enjoy the cleanup sacks as Kwitty forced the QB to step up. Get a speed guy and it will be lights out.  I’m hating the way the defense is producing right now but they are honestly a DE and CB away from being the strength of this team when healthy. Emphasis on the healthy part. 

I agree.  I could see Paye developing some tech and becoming a better sacker, but he's already a great Edge setter.  

 

We might be only a DE and CB away, I can agree with that, but in reality that is like saying a team is only a QB and a #1 Pass Catcher away on offense.  It could be a long way away.  

[AwesomeAustin]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

I agree.  I could see Paye developing some tech and becoming a better sacker, but he's already a great Edge setter.  

 

We might be only a DE and CB away, I can agree with that, but in reality that is like saying a team is only a QB and a #1 Pass Catcher away on offense.  It could be a long way away.  

Most definitely will be hard to fill those spots.  I think he can get a CB thru FA or a trade.  No one is going to come off a DE at a price that makes sense. Perhaps a Justin Houston type veteran at the end of his career can be signed to be a 3rd down player. Otherwise it will need to be the draft. Really haven’t had much luck with that.  Hopefully something pans out

 

I think they should focus on the secondary and offense.  DEs are like QBs and hard to find good ones. If we can score points and make the other offense throw the ball playing catch up, hopefully the DBs can cover just long enough B rated pass rushers can get home. I think this is a better approach than drafting project DEs that aren’t panning out. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

23 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We’re on a break right now because of the Thursday night game so I thought I would pose an interesting question. Do you think that spells the end of Ballard if that takes place? Have a great Sunday everyone

What if Spartacus had a B52 bomber?

[throwing BBZ]

Quote

 

 

 Maybe if our corners  were faster/quicker they wouldn' HAVE TO play so far off and they could actually defend the first 2.5 seconds Much better!
 Leonard and Oke need to react quicker too.
 Do our safeties scare anyone with their coverage abilities?
  I'm saying the weakness of our back seven significantly contributes to our not getting the QB on the ground.
We do need a MAD DOG to replace Grover in pass situations. Maybe it is Dayo. I know having AQM at DE is a Losing proposition.

[Nickster]

25 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Most definitely will be hard to fill those spots.  I think he can get a CB thru FA or a trade.  No one is going to come off a DE at a price that makes sense. Perhaps a Justin Houston type veteran at the end of his career can be signed to be a 3rd down player. Otherwise it will need to be the draft. Really haven’t had much luck with that.  Hopefully something pans out

 

I think they should focus on the secondary and offense.  DEs are like QBs and hard to find good ones. If we can score points and make the other offense throw the ball playing catch up, hopefully the DBs can cover just long enough B rated pass rushers can get home. I think this is a better approach than drafting project DEs that aren’t panning out. 

Yep.  Lot's of swing and miss on EDGE drafting.  No 1st rounder next year unless CW gets hurt and if he does it would be a top half pick likely and we could find a stud corner possibly.  

[AwesomeAustin]

6 hours ago, Nickster said:

Yep.  Lot's of swing and miss on EDGE drafting.  No 1st rounder next year unless CW gets hurt and if he does it would be a top half pick likely and we could find a stud corner possibly.  

Even tho I think the playoffs are a long shot, I hope CW stays healthy and keeps building on what he has done.  I think he is an excellent QB.  Of course he has his flaws but man he was a steal with a 1st and a 3rd. Sucks that we need that 1st rounder. Those 4 draft picks in DEs that didn’t pan out are really holding this defense back. Not a single one of them is even worth keeping as a depth player.  Turray and Lewis bc of injuries and Banagou and Basham just never did anything. Not sure what the deal is but all at the same position busting is extremely unfortunate and probably just plain bad luck. 

[Nickster]

17 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Even tho I think the playoffs are a long shot, I hope CW stays healthy and keeps building on what he has done.  I think he is an excellent QB.  Of course he has his flaws but man he was a steal with a 1st and a 3rd. Sucks that we need that 1st rounder. Those 4 draft picks in DEs that didn’t pan out are really holding this defense back. Not a single one of them is even worth keeping as a depth player.  Turray and Lewis bc of injuries and Banagou and Basham just never did anything. Not sure what the deal is but all at the same position busting is extremely unfortunate and probably just plain bad luck. 

Yep.  Only thing I would say is if things aren’t headed for the post season, I wouldn’t lose sleep over CW straining some soft tissue.

[Superman]

What if they do?

[MPStack]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

What if they do?

CB can focus on the secondary

[shasta519]

What is considering panning out? I don't think they will be busts.

 

But barring injury, they are both very likely starters on the DL for the next few years anyways.  What that looks like in three years...who knows. But they are going to get every chance to succeed. So we won't know for quite some time.

 

But if for some reason they aren't very good in a few years, by then the Colts will have some draft capital to try again I guess.

 

 

[Mitch Connors]

Well we given up like the 30th most passing yards so far this year so if these guys dont work out.....I guess we finish with the 30th best passing defense this season. Then we do it all over again next year but the big difference and secret sauce will be next year we draft a couple more guys to do the job while we wait for this crop to "develop."

 

 

 

 

[ADnum1]

Ballard stays.

 

It just means we will have to delay gratification even further.