Lost in Carr News

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, Four2itus said:

Yes. I like Carr, but the likely draft pick loss changes his value. I see no options beyond JB that give a sure, to fairly sure improvement...without a significant price to future risk. 

i do think we will have to take a risk to improve, i dont think we can win the division with jacoby so the risk is worth it

[lincolndefan]

6 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I wanted to point out that lost in the news that the Colts are interested in Carr is that Holder and Keefer had some news on Jacoby. 
 

They made a big point to say that it could still be Jacoby next year with a mid round QB. They made a huge point to say that even though the fan base has soured on JB, Ballard Reich are MUCH higher on him than anyone elseand . Just some interesting news that got lost in all the excitement of Carr to Colts. 

 

After watching this past years Saints and the last Jags game, i find it laughable that Ballard / Reich is MUCH higher on him than anyone else. Maybe as a friend or good guy but definately not an NFL QB. By the way, are you related to JB by any chance.

[boo2202]

If Ballard doesn’t do anything to improve the QB position this offseason, his seat should get hot. Also irsay better count on more empty seats. The ones clamoring for another year of JB, will be the first ones calling out Ballard, Reich, etc next year when we see the same product. 

[EastStreet]

I didn't hear anything of use out of the podcast. They pretty much regurgitated all the options, rumors, and what others have said. Means virtually nothing. The only slightly new/original stuff was about Stafford potentially being let go, and that's actually been discussed (him leaving, not necessarily a Colts option).

 

Holder was a JB apologist all year, and sounds like they're both still on that train (although softening enough to hedge his bets). They still highlighted all the "excuses" for JB, but didn't dig in on the obvious deficiencies. They use the terms "flaws", but have zero specific discussion about them. Still way to overly cautious to have simple dialog about the "bad" stuff.

 

The only thing I agree on, is that TedB isn't good, but he is JB+. Does sound like they both would be happy with Carr. 

[USAFHoosier]

If they can get Carr for a day 2 pick then sign me up. Instantly upgrades the QB position for a little over what Jacoby makes. Plus still allows them to go BPA in the 1st and not reaching on a QB. Hopefully that is a Kinlaw or Jeudy IMO. If Costanzo retires that may change. 

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Actually, I think Carr or Herbert are the most likely candidates to replace JB, and I think CB wants to replace JB. 

 

They both provide a higher level of play than JB does immediately, yes I think Herbert does right now, but have some room to improve.  Carr could flourish in this system, and in that respect, could be thought of as having a higher ceiling here than with LVR.

 

I think both CB and Irsay want improved QB immediately.  That's why I don't think the "developmental" QB route in the mid rounds is going to be pursued.  There is no way to improve immediately upon the QB play now, not waiting for a guy that might not ever improve upon it.  And in that sense, with all of the interest shown in Love, it makes me wonder that in the end he likes what he's seen, or that adding him is a great fit at this point.

 

 Of course they will pursue a cheap 3rd string QB if Hoyer is dumped as i expect.
 And i believe you are completely missing it. JB will have a head to head competition with Kelly of which they believe JB can lose.
 Now if we can get Carr using Hooker or Walker or some such scenario with modest draft capital, hmmmm!

[coltsfanatic24]

If we can get Carr without giving up a first round pick then I’m all for it. Carr with this talented roster makes us a legitimate Super Bowl contender. 

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, HectorRoberts said:

I love how we are so anti-Brissett because he’s An average Qb when Carr and rivers are both average qbs on their good days 

Carr averaged in the top 10 of core QB stats in a scheme he doesn't fit.

JB averaged in the bottom 10 with a coach who called plays to mask his weaknesses. 

 

It's really not even a comparison. 

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Of course they will pursue a cheap 3rd string QB if Hoyer is dumped as i expect.
 And i believe you are completely missing it. JB will have a head to head competition with Kelly of which they believe JB can lose.
 Now if we can get Carr using Hooker or Walker or some such scenario with modest draft capital, hmmmm!

Nobody on the Colts is viewing Kelly as potential starter.  JMO.

 

He may stabilize enough to be a reliable backup, but CB is not going to make any QB decision with the notion that Kelly could be a starter some day.  If JB, Kelly, and Hoyer are the QB corps next season, Kelly will be competing with Hoyer for the backup role.  He won't be competing with JB for starter.

 

At best, Kelly gets to a point where he is the backup and is playing behind a high quality starting QB we've had for a couple of seasons.

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

If we can get Carr without giving up a first round pick then I’m all for it. Carr with this talented roster makes us a legitimate Super Bowl contender. 

I agree but I doubt CB makes it happen. CB has shown us he doesn't want to spend money to make the team better.Carr will probably be a Bear.

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

8 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Been saying this all offseason.  There are extenuating circumstances that explain what happened in the second half, and Brissett's performance in the first half was promising. 

 

Ballard is not likely to be swayed by public opinion and Reich seems to legitimately want a game managing QB and to play the run game heavily.

 

Both men came in saying they wanted to play a new style of football and we should not expect that to be thrown in the drink after 1 disappointing season, especially when that season showed promise before the wheels fell off

Unfortunately it isnt just public opinion that the wheels fell off. It actually happened, and JB did play a pretty big part in it regardless of the circumstances. Cant imagine the team using that as an excuse. Maybe more motivation to fix the weakest links. 

[CanuckColt]

8 hours ago, Hoose said:

You have to openly wonder if Castonzo will make his decision based upon who is behind center. And that would also include FAs whom the Colts might covet. No one is going to hitch their future to a ship that’s adrift unless they are well overpaid to do it. And having JB as your QB is a rudderless ship. There is no future with Brissett and you have to believe Ballard knows this. 

Yeah, its no secret that Castonzo doesn't want to play with Brissett at QB.

I wonder how many others feel that way...Nelson?

Brissett actually regressed throughout the year and who knows what we have now.

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Yeah, its no secret that Castonzo doesn't want to play with Brissett at QB.

I wonder how many others feel that way...Nelson?

Brissett actually regressed throughout the year and who knows what we have now.

What debunks that thought is the timeline.  The stated timeline that was given in early January at least.  AC was supposedly going to make his decision by the end of January I had thought, well before FA or the draft even starts.

 

And here it is nearly a month after the decision time and we're still waiting.

 

So yeah, I agree with you.  We just have to look at the original timeline given being a smokescreen. 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Been saying this all offseason.  There are extenuating circumstances that explain what happened in the second half, and Brissett's performance in the first half was promising. 

4 out of 7 early games were sub 50 QBR, three were sub 30. His two decent games were vs horrible passing Ds. Just curious, what is so "promising" about that. Don't give me "W"s... lol

9 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Ballard is not likely to be swayed by public opinion and Reich seems to legitimately want a game managing QB and to play the run game heavily.

 

Both men came in saying they wanted to play a new style of football and we should not expect that to be thrown in the drink after 1 disappointing season, especially when that season showed promise before the wheels fell off

The is horse dooky. They did not say they wanted a game manager QB. What they said is they want to be a top 5 rushing team. That does not equate to wanting to be game manager passing team. They said that prior to Luck leaving. Do you think they were going to play call for Luck to be a game manager?

 

Dallas was top 5 in rushing AND passing. Top 5 rushing does not equate to "Reich seems to legitimately want a game managing QB"

 

As far as Ballard being swayed, you have no idea what Ballard is thinking. One thing is sure though, we all know Irsay is sensitive to ticket sales, and he's the boss.

[Jackie Daytona]

11 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Been saying this all offseason.  There are extenuating circumstances that explain what happened in the second half, and Brissett's performance in the first half was promising. 

 

He was decent... I'm not convinced the injury took him from average to crap as much as lack of ability to adapt and grow did once teams had tape of him in this offense, but I suppose he could be great.  

 

Another year of him as starter for all 16 I'd be surprised though

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

I agree but I doubt CB makes it happen. CB has shown us he doesn't want to spend money to make the team better.Carr will probably be a Bear.

CB is spending near Carr's contract yearly $ amount on JB in 2020.... 

[Jackie Daytona]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

4 out of 7 early games were sub 50 QBR, three were sub 30. His two decent games were vs horrible passing Ds. Just curious, what is so "promising" about that. Don't give me "W"s... lol

The is horse dooky. They did not say they wanted a game manager QB. What they said is they want to be a top 5 rushing team. That does not equate to wanting to be game manager passing team. They said that prior to Luck leaving. Do you think they were going to play call for Luck to be a game manager?

 

Dallas was top 5 in rushing AND passing. Top 5 rushing does not equate to "Reich seems to legitimately want a game managing QB"

 

As far as Ballard being swayed, you have no idea what Ballard is thinking. One thing is sure though, we all know Irsay is sensitive to ticket sales, and he's the boss.

Eh, team only grosses like 59 mil. Annually bi. Ticket sales.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Eh, team only grosses like 59 mil. Annually bi. Ticket sales.

It's more than just ticket sales. When people stopped going a few years ago, revenue dropped downtown (bars, restaurants, hotels, merch) and there was that added pressure to Irsay as well. There was a good article in the Star about the decline in 2017. 

 

Here's another blurb

Quote

 

Which pro sports franchise has lost the most fans over the last ten years?  The Indianapolis Colts are 12th on financial news website 247wallst.com’s list of “12 Pro Sports Running Out of Fans.”  Colts average attendance over the last ten years has consistently fallen, reaching 59,199 per game in 2018, a decline of -10.8%, reports financial news website 247wallst.com’s report. Click here to read 24/7’s complete article.

 

In 2017, the Colts struggled. Franchise QB Andrew Luck was sidelined all season with a shoulder injury and the team went 4-12, missing the playoffs for the third straight season. This seems to have caused Colts fans to lose interest in their team, as 2018 was the first season in Lucas Oil Stadium history that average attendance did not exceed 100% of the announced capacity. Just 94.0% of seats were filled in 2018, 23rd among all NFL teams. But fans may be back in droves after a revamped Indy roster posted a 10-6 record in 2018 and made the playoffs for the first time after a three-season drought.

 

 

[boo2202]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It's more than just ticket sales. When people stopped going a few years ago, revenue dropped downtown (bars, restaurants, hotels, merch) and there was that added pressure to Irsay as well. There was a good article in the Star about the decline in 2017. 

 

Here's another blurb

 

Your on point today. Everything goes together. Sell tickets= selling $15 nachos etc in the gate. Oh and before you go to the game, you’ve got to stop by the pro shop and get the new sideline hat. Hopefully we start hearing of how things might shake out with the combine starting this week. I just have a feeling that Ballard is going to be more aggressive this offseason, with how the season played out and this team not being too far away. 

[Clem-Dog]

One very important stat that no one is mentioning is Carr's ability to win.  Only once in six seasons has he had a winning record, in 2016.  Overall, his career record is 39-55, which is a generous enough sample size to show that he is less than average when it comes to the bottomline.  

 

Sure when comparing him to JB he looks great but it is only an illusion to the fact that he is sub par.

[buccolts]

12 minutes ago, Clem-Dog said:

One very important stat that no one is mentioning is Carr's ability to win.  Only once in six seasons has he had a winning record, in 2016.  Overall, his career record is 39-55, which is a generous enough sample size to show that he is less than average when it comes to the bottomline.  

 

Sure when comparing him to JB he looks great but it is only an illusion to the fact that he is sub par.

I gotta say that I'm not fond of this thought process. 

 

I don't want to be the team that's dependent on the QB to carry them. I want to be the team who's QB play compliments the team, and I think the present day Colts Is better than the Carr era Raiders. 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, boo2202 said:

Your on point today. Everything goes together. Sell tickets= selling $15 nachos etc in the gate. Oh and before you go to the game, you’ve got to stop by the pro shop and get the new sideline hat. Hopefully we start hearing of how things might shake out with the combine starting this week. I just have a feeling that Ballard is going to be more aggressive this offseason, with how the season played out and this team not being too far away. 

Yup, there a ton of non-ticket revenue in the mix. Every time I fly back for a game, it's $50-100 on beer and snacks at the game, $$ for parking, out to eat ($100+), a t-shirt or something, beers pre and/or post game, and half the time a hotel room and lots more meals. Folks don't realize the impact to businesses outside LOS. Heck, last game I flew back for a game, I took 3 others and covered drinks and meals. It was a very expensive day.

[NannyMcafee]

On 2/21/2020 at 4:57 PM, boo2202 said:

If Ballard doesn’t do anything to improve the QB position this offseason, his seat should get hot. Also irsay better count on more empty seats. The ones clamoring for another year of JB, will be the first ones calling out Ballard, Reich, etc next year when we see the same product. 

 

It wont get hot. Ballard has turned the talent on this team completely around. It is clear the everything is pointing up. Irsay is in love with Ballard. Irsay has even said that Ballard is one of if not the best GM in the league. Irsay has 100% bought into Ballards plan. 

 

The seat will not be hot. I have been saying this the entirety of the last year. As much as anyone wants to call irsay a fool, he knows football inside and out. He knows how hard it is to attain an elite QB. And ballard is going to find a QB within 1 year of a once in a generation talent surprise retires? 

 

I am so sick and tired of hearing about Ballards seat becoming hot. If you know football you know Ballard is one of the best GMs in football. Name me someone, anyone who isnt dead or retired, that would be a better GM than Ballard...? Irsay cant. Ballard would need to completely collapse in order for irsay to fire him before the next 3 years. Mark it down. It's not happening. 

[MPStack]

On 2/21/2020 at 4:57 PM, boo2202 said:

If Ballard doesn’t do anything to improve the QB position this offseason, his seat should get hot. Also irsay better count on more empty seats. The ones clamoring for another year of JB, will be the first ones calling out Ballard, Reich, etc next year when we see the same product. 

100% Agree

 

If, Ballard rolls with JB and the Colts fail to make the playoffs, his seat will be hot in 2021, especially if he didn’t address the QB position via the draft.
 

It’s delusional to think Ballard or any GM gets 7 years, when the average tenure is 4-5 years. And missing the playoffs 3 out of 4. 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

On 2/21/2020 at 12:07 PM, chad72 said:

 

Having the luxury of a Mariota led Titans is no longer there. Titans and Texans are better at the QB position, IMO, and if the Texans improve on D after letting Crennel go, it is going to be more difficult to get the division from them. 

as long as they have watson throwing to hopkins they will win our division

[Moosejawcolt]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:04 AM, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I wanted to point out that lost in the news that the Colts are interested in Carr is that Holder and Keefer had some news on Jacoby. 
 

They made a big point to say that it could still be Jacoby next year with a mid round QB. They made a huge point to say that even though the fan base has soured on JB, Ballard and Reich are MUCH higher on him than anyone else. Just some interesting news that got lost in all the excitement of Carr to Colts. 

I honestly wouldnt b surprised.  I just think this team needs depth especially on the D line.  I think they still want to accumalate more talent.  Draft a qb next year and u  insert him into a more balanced and talented roster. 

.

[Four2itus]

5 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

It wont get hot. Ballard has turned the talent on this team completely around. It is clear the everything is pointing up. Irsay is in love with Ballard. Irsay has even said that Ballard is one of if not the best GM in the league. Irsay has 100% bought into Ballards plan. 

 

The seat will not be hot. I have been saying this the entirety of the last year. As much as anyone wants to call irsay a fool, he knows football inside and out. He knows how hard it is to attain an elite QB. And ballard is going to find a QB within 1 year of a once in a generation talent surprise retires? 

 

I am so sick and tired of hearing about Ballards seat becoming hot. If you know football you know Ballard is one of the best GMs in football. Name me someone, anyone who isnt dead or retired, that would be a better GM than Ballard...? Irsay cant. Ballard would need to completely collapse in order for irsay to fire him before the next 3 years. Mark it down. It's not happening. 

[Myles]

5 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

It wont get hot. Ballard has turned the talent on this team completely around. It is clear the everything is pointing up. Irsay is in love with Ballard. Irsay has even said that Ballard is one of if not the best GM in the league. Irsay has 100% bought into Ballards plan. 

 

The seat will not be hot. I have been saying this the entirety of the last year. As much as anyone wants to call irsay a fool, he knows football inside and out. He knows how hard it is to attain an elite QB. And ballard is going to find a QB within 1 year of a once in a generation talent surprise retires? 

 

I am so sick and tired of hearing about Ballards seat becoming hot. If you know football you know Ballard is one of the best GMs in football. Name me someone, anyone who isnt dead or retired, that would be a better GM than Ballard...? Irsay cant. Ballard would need to completely collapse in order for irsay to fire him before the next 3 years. Mark it down. It's not happening. 

I agree with you for the most part.   Ballard is a very good GM and Irsay likes him.   But if Brissett is the starter next season and the team goes 7-9, attendance will go way down and that could force Irsays hand.  

[MPStack]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree with you for the most part.   Ballard is a very good GM and Irsay likes him.   But if Brissett is the starter next season and the team goes 7-9, attendance will go way down and that could force Irsays hand.  

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

8 hours ago, Myles said:

I agree with you for the most part.   Ballard is a very good GM and Irsay likes him.   But if Brissett is the starter next season and the team goes 7-9, attendance will go way down and that could force Irsays hand.  

Irsay won’t have his hand forced. He loved Grigson and Chuck. Everyone said he had to fire them in 2016. What did he do... gave them both extensions. Kept Grigson for another year and Chuck for 2 more. He won’t be pressured by outside noise. Also remember we were going 8-8 during that stretch of time. 

[boo2202]

15 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

It wont get hot. Ballard has turned the talent on this team completely around. It is clear the everything is pointing up. Irsay is in love with Ballard. Irsay has even said that Ballard is one of if not the best GM in the league. Irsay has 100% bought into Ballards plan. 

 

The seat will not be hot. I have been saying this the entirety of the last year. As much as anyone wants to call irsay a fool, he knows football inside and out. He knows how hard it is to attain an elite QB. And ballard is going to find a QB within 1 year of a once in a generation talent surprise retires? 

 

I am so sick and tired of hearing about Ballards seat becoming hot. If you know football you know Ballard is one of the best GMs in football. Name me someone, anyone who isnt dead or retired, that would be a better GM than Ballard...? Irsay cant. Ballard would need to completely collapse in order for irsay to fire him before the next 3 years. Mark it down. It's not happening. 

Eric decosta

Howie Roseman

 

 

 

Whoever said ELITE QB? This team isn’t going to be built on just the QB position. But it’s obvious that we’ve got to have better play there. Irsay might love Ballard but Jim loves too win also. He does know football and I’m sure he sees the glaring need for an upgrade if we’re truly trying to win a SB. 

 

There looks like better QB will be attainable for us this year, via trade, draft, FA. So yea if Ballard doesn’t address the elephant in the room, he deserves all the criticism thrown his way. 

 

 

I like Ballard but many colts fans think he’s untouchable for whatever reason, which is crazy. He’s had some blunders even he himself acknowledged this at his end of season presser. 

 

Main point, the QB search should begin now. 

 

 

 

[NannyMcafee]

10 hours ago, Myles said:

I agree with you for the most part.   Ballard is a very good GM and Irsay likes him.   But if Brissett is the starter next season and the team goes 7-9, attendance will go way down and that could force Irsays hand.  

 

 

Attendance going down isnt going to force anything. Irsay is a multi millionaire. The Colts are Irsays baby, and we will gladly lose money for the things that are beat for our baby. 

 

So, let's go down the other rabbit hole. Ballard wastes resources on a QB for the sake of grabbing a guy to replace JB... setting this franchise back for years now. Hence, the complete collapse of  Ballard. Again, that's the only way irsay loses faith in Ballard. 

 

%, Grigson dismantled the talent on this team and irsay barely fired the guy. And you think he will start turning up the heat on the guy who has done the exact opposite as what

 Grigsons did? 

 

Lol you guys really dont think things through. 

[NannyMcafee]

1 hour ago, boo2202 said:

Eric decosta

Howie Roseman

 

 

 

Whoever said ELITE QB? This team isn’t going to be built on just the QB position. But it’s obvious that we’ve got to have better play there. Irsay might love Ballard but Jim loves too win also. He does know football and I’m sure he sees the glaring need for an upgrade if we’re truly trying to win a SB. 

 

There looks like better QB will be attainable for us this year, via trade, draft, FA. So yea if Ballard doesn’t address the elephant in the room, he deserves all the criticism thrown his way. 

 

 

I like Ballard but many colts fans think he’s untouchable for whatever reason, which is crazy. He’s had some blunders even he himself acknowledged this at his end of season presser. 

 

Main point, the QB search should begin now. 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think hes untouchable. I just dont think his seat will be hot after his 4th year in the league and his first offseason without Andrew Luck. The attitude of turning the heat up on his seat goes right in line with the Browns mindset. Ballard will be the Colts GM at the very least, as long as Grigson had. Ticket sales arent the end all be all for irsay. You forget this team was a major loser for several several years before Polian took over. And by golly the Colts team remained in Indy playing football every sunday. 

[Dingus McGirt]

Brissett isn't going anywhere.  Barring injury, he will be the starter for the entire 2020 season.   Irsay/Ballard/Reich don't dare treat him any other way.  Everyone is wasting time and energy talking about it.  Even me.

 

Watch.

[The Fish]

26 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Brissett isn't going anywhere.  Barring injury, he will be the starter for the entire 2020 season.   Irsay/Ballard/Reich don't dare treat him any other way.  Everyone is wasting time and energy talking about it.  Even me.

 

Watch.

What's being implied here? Backlash from the media? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

39 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

 

I dont think hes untouchable. I just dont think his seat will be hot after his 4th year in the league and his first offseason without Andrew Luck. The attitude of turning the heat up on his seat goes right in line with the Browns mindset. Ballard will be the Colts GM at the very least, as long as Grigson had. Ticket sales arent the end all be all for irsay. You forget this team was a major loser for several several years before Polian took over. And by golly the Colts team remained in Indy playing football every sunday. 

If we end up with the same bad QB play this year with the future not being drafted this year yes he will be on the hot seat. If Jacoby is the starter and doesn’t improve but we have the future we draft in April on the team he won’t be on the hot seat. 

[Dingus McGirt]

Write it down.  Brissett will get another 3-5 year contract from the Colts.

 

[NannyMcafee]

5 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

If we end up with the same bad QB play this year with the future not being drafted this year yes he will be on the hot seat. If Jacoby is the starter and doesn’t improve but we have the future we draft in April on the team he won’t be on the hot seat. 

 

After watching Grigson suck for years with Andrew Luck and you still believe that. 

[ojsglove]

8 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

 

Attendance going down isnt going to force anything. Irsay is a multi millionaire. The Colts are Irsays baby, and we will gladly lose money for the things that are beat for our baby. 

 

So, let's go down the other rabbit hole. Ballard wastes resources on a QB for the sake of grabbing a guy to replace JB... setting this franchise back for years now. Hence, the complete collapse of  Ballard. Again, that's the only way irsay loses faith in Ballard. 

 

%, Grigson dismantled the talent on this team and irsay barely fired the guy. And you think he will start turning up the heat on the guy who has done the exact opposite as what

 Grigsons did? 

 

Lol you guys really dont think things through. 

Grigsons relationship with Jim's daughter, is the only reason he was allowed to hang around so long

[Archer]

On 2/23/2020 at 11:43 AM, Chloe6124 said:

If we end up with the same bad QB play this year with the future not being drafted this year yes he will be on the hot seat. If Jacoby is the starter and doesn’t improve but we have the future we draft in April on the team he won’t be on the hot seat. 

Ultimately, decisions like this define a GM.  But, by the same token, there are no easy solutions at QB for the team drafting 13 this year.  It would be cost-prohibitive to move up high enough to get Tua or Herbert, and it’s too high to pick Love (wayyyy too high IMO).  I don’t think Ballard feels any pressure to draft one - he’d rather nail the Rd. 1 pick and look to improve the QB position later.  Man - Gordon in the late 2nd or 3rd is a much better move - the dude is a smart QB (an under-reported quality of his), and you’re probably not passing up any perennial Pro Bowlers to draft him...