Lost in Carr News

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

I wanted to point out that lost in the news that the Colts are interested in Carr is that Holder and Keefer had some news on Jacoby. 
 

They made a big point to say that it could still be Jacoby next year with a mid round QB. They made a huge point to say that even though the fan base has soured on JB, Ballard and Reich are MUCH higher on him than anyone else. Just some interesting news that got lost in all the excitement of Carr to Colts. 

[NannyMcafee]

9 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I wanted to point out that lost in the news that the Colts are interested in Carr is that Holder and Keefer had some news on Jacoby. 
 

They made a big point to say that it could still be Jacoby next year with a mid round QB. They made a huge point to say that even though the fan base has soured on JB, Ballard and Reich are MUCH higher on him than anyone else. Just some interesting news that got lost in all the excitement of Carr to Colts. 

 

They know JB. It's like having a friend. You are high on your friend and want what's best for him and your orginization. But if someone is better out there than your friend, that doesn't mean you're not high on your friend anymore. But that someone is going to make your orginization achieve its yearly goal much better. 

 

If JB is "The guy" again this year, it doesn't mean it's because they're more high on him than other guys. 

[HectorRoberts]

I have heard no news about Carr to the colts or anything hinting at this. Do you have a source?

[NannyMcafee]

1 minute ago, HectorRoberts said:

I have heard no news about Carr to the colts or anything hinting at this. Do you have a source?

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/64938-more-derek-carr-rumors/

[HectorRoberts]

2 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/64938-more-derek-carr-rumors/

Oh ok I thought this was actually news not colts fan speculation

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I agreed with what they said on Jacoby. All they basically said is that the colts don’t hate him so much they aren’t going to panic and just bring in anyone. It has to be the right fit and a clear upgrade.

[NannyMcafee]

18 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

Oh ok I thought this was actually news not colts fan speculation

 

A see a lot of fans on both sides of the Carr discussion. But the Source is unknown. The rumor is that Stephon Holder has a source that says the Colts are interested in a trade with the Raiders for Carr. So it's a tiny bit more than fan talk. 

 

Word is, teams are waiting for the new CBA before they start doing things in FA and trades. So we have a lot more time before we know for sure how or if Ballard is actually interested in this. 

[DougDew]

Yeah, stepping back to 30,000 feet to look at the landscape, this is the point of the season where there are usually strong speculations about what players certain teams are interested in.

 

The Colts have been linked mildly to Carr, only speculatively to Rivers, and really nobody else other than JB.

 

There really hasn't been any mention of the Colts drafting a QB, any particular one or targeting any round, only the scouts kicking the tires on the prospects.

[shasta519]

If by “mid-round QB”...you mean “middle of the 1st round”...then sure it could be JB and a mid-round QB.

 

But they are not going to enter next season with a QB room of JB and some 3rd-4th rounder. 
 

Most of the local media guys refuse to step on any toes.

[shasta519]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, stepping back to 30,000 feet to look at the landscape, this is the point of the season where there are usually strong speculations about what players certain teams are interested in.

 

The Colts have been linked mildly to Carr, only speculatively to Rivers, and really nobody else other than JB.

 

There really hasn't been any mention of the Colts drafting a QB, any particular one or targeting any round, only the scouts kicking the tires on the prospects.

Ballard runs a very tight ship...we likely won’t know what direction they are taking...until they take it. And certainly...it won’t be Holder or Keefer breaking the story.

[Fisticuffs111]

Holder and Keefer are really good at towing the line, tempering expectations, etc

 

That said, I do think Ballard and especially Reich like Jacoby. But “much higher” than most are? Doubt it. They painted him as a top 20 QB and I doubt their opinion has changed for the better. I think Ballard’s okay with idea of him starting next year but he’s gotta know that banking on a JB led team in the future is super risky.

[Imgrandojji]

52 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I wanted to point out that lost in the news that the Colts are interested in Carr is that Holder and Keefer had some news on Jacoby. 
 

They made a big point to say that it could still be Jacoby next year with a mid round QB. They made a huge point to say that even though the fan base has soured on JB, Ballard and Reich are MUCH higher on him than anyone else. Just some interesting news that got lost in all the excitement of Carr to Colts. 

Been saying this all offseason.  There are extenuating circumstances that explain what happened in the second half, and Brissett's performance in the first half was promising. 

 

Ballard is not likely to be swayed by public opinion and Reich seems to legitimately want a game managing QB and to play the run game heavily.

 

Both men came in saying they wanted to play a new style of football and we should not expect that to be thrown in the drink after 1 disappointing season, especially when that season showed promise before the wheels fell off

[shasta519]

13 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

A see a lot of fans on both sides of the Carr discussion. But the Source is unknown. The rumor is that Stephon Holder has a source that says the Colts are interested in a trade with the Raiders for Carr. So it's a tiny bit more than fan talk. 

 

Word is, teams are waiting for the new CBA before they start doing things in FA and trades. So we have a lot more time before we know for sure how or if Ballard is actually interested in this. 

Well...to be fair...they are waiting until the new league year starts to do those things regardless. But typically there are trades with the parameters in place (like Flacco last year)...and I could see the CBA holding that up a bit this year.

[Imgrandojji]

The desperation to replace Brissett has always seemed to me to come more from a fanbase used to having an elite QB and not used to thinking about any other way of doing things, than it is from a frank assessment of this team's asssets and liabilities.

 

I feel it's based more on fear than practicality.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

Ballard runs a very tight ship...we likely won’t know what direction they are taking...until they take it. And certainly...it won’t be Holder or Keefer breaking the story.

Agreed, but, I think CB is in some ways more transparent about things than others.  I think when he speaks of needs and wants, he's pretty sincere and an astute person can read between the lines where he is headed.

 

Example: He says that locker room is important, and that fits with his actions in FA where he hasn't really signed any high priced FA.  

 

IMO, he has expressed a desire to not have the team revolve around a $150 million QB.  I tend to think that he is not searching the world looking for the next PM or AL.  I could see him using a mild level of capital to move up a few slots for Herbert, but I don't see him fussing over having to find that next great QB savior to carry the team on his back.  In fact, I think he wants to avoid having the team built that way.  To me, that says something about his FA and draft strategy.

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Holder and Keefer are really good at towing the line, tempering expectations, etc

 

That said, I do think Ballard and especially Reich like Jacoby. But “much higher” than most are? Doubt it. They painted him as a top 20 QB and I doubt their opinion has changed for the better. I like to think Ballard’s okay with idea of him starting next year but he’s gotta know that banking on a JB led team in the future is super risky.

I like to think he’s NOT ok with the idea of JB starting.
 

It’s harsh reality...but there is just far too much downside...he’s not cheap...he limits Reich’s playbook...he hampers the pass catchers (which is especially critical for ones developing)...and he’s playing for his career (not trying to mentor his replacement)...and that’s just on the football side of it. 
 

Ballard is a smart person...who came from an org that realized Alex Smith (a much more accomplished QB who made the playoffs) wasn’t enough to get the job done. He will do the right thing.

[Fisticuffs111]

9 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I like to think he’s NOT ok with the idea of JB starting.
 

It’s harsh reality...but there is just far too much downside...he’s not cheap...he limits Reich’s playbook...he hampers the pass catchers (which is especially critical for ones developing)...and he’s playing for his career (not trying to mentor his replacement)...and that’s just on the football side of it. 
 

Ballard is a smart person...who came from an org that realized Alex Smith (a much more accomplished QB who made the playoffs) wasn’t enough to get the job done. He will do the right thing.

 

Oh yeah, I’m purely just talking about next year. Ballard being okay (not happy but okay) with starting JB if we, say, draft a QB early and don’t trade/sign for a Carr or Rivers. Not long term though, otherwise his job’s going to be really hard.

[shasta519]

4 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

The desperation to replace Brissett has always seemed to me to come more from a fanbase used to having an elite QB and not used to thinking about any other way of doing things, than it is from a frank assessment of this team's asssets and liabilities.

 

I feel it's based more on fear than practicality.

It’s not desperation...and moving on is far more practical than dreaming on some massive leap next year...if we are talking about having success next year.

[shasta519]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed, but, I think CB is in some ways more transparent about things than others.  I think when he speaks of needs and wants, he's pretty sincere and an astute person can read between the lines where he is headed.

 

Example: He says that locker room is important, and that fits with his actions in FA where he hasn't really signed any high priced FA.  

 

IMO, he has expressed a desire to not have the team revolve around a $150 million QB.  I tend to think that he is not searching the world looking for the next PM or AL.  I could see him using a mild level of capital to move up a few slots for Herbert, but I don't see him fussing over having to find that next great QB savior to carry the team on his back.  In fact, I think he wants to avoid having the team built that way.  To me, that says something about his FA and draft strategy.

Yeah...I think he does seek a well-balanced team...but he also already had that top tier QB when he got here...so it’s pretty easy to not make a fuss over having one.

[aaron11]

30 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

The desperation to replace Brissett has always seemed to me to come more from a fanbase used to having an elite QB and not used to thinking about any other way of doing things, than it is from a frank assessment of this team's asssets and liabilities.

 

I feel it's based more on fear than practicality.

 

nah, i think JB was that bad.  barely top 20 in any stat

 

pff had him like 28th.  its not that he isnt elite, its that hes not good enough 

[chad72]

Ballard is not going to hitch his future wagon to more than 1 year of JB. 2 out of 3 years of missing the playoffs could quickly become 3 out of 4 years and the seat will start feeling hotter for Ballard, IMO. 

 

As far as 2020, yes, "maybe" JB could get us to the playoffs but one more year of missing the playoffs, everyone is second guessing with 20/20 hindsight - fans, media and ownership. The talent Ballard brings in to offset JB's limited ceiling better be real good to give him a margin for error, that is all I am saying.

 

Unlike last year, this year, we play the AFC North and the NFC North. I don't know about you but we are playing good defensive teams in there. Last year, it was the AFC West and NFC South but then, we were more worried about the offensive side of our opponents than the defensive side. I think better defensive teams will pose more problems for our average offense than better offensive teams for our above average defense.

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I wanted to point out that lost in the news that the Colts are interested in Carr is that Holder and Keefer had some news on Jacoby. 
 

They made a big point to say that it could still be Jacoby next year with a mid round QB. They made a huge point to say that even though the fan base has soured on JB, Ballard and Reich are MUCH higher on him than anyone else. Just some interesting news that got lost in all the excitement of Carr to Colts. 

I'm pretty certain this is true. They're both philosophically pretty conservative/stay the course kind of guys in my observation. 

It's also highly unlikely to work out and risks the fans souring on them when JB goes and plays like JB, the mid round QB is irrelevant and Chad Kelly is the most popular guy in town.

[Imgrandojji]

31 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I like to think he’s NOT ok with the idea of JB starting.
 

 

 

You do that.  But understand that that's just YHO. 

 

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

nah, i think JB was that bad.  barely top 20 in any stat

 

pff had him like 28th.  its not that he isnt elite, its that hes not good enough 

 

A lot of those numbers were sabotaged by rather low attempt rates.  Which leads to an unsolvable chicken and egg question.

[aaron11]

im sure ballard and reich are both willing to go into next season with Jacoby.  i kind of doubt we land carr, the raiders wont get brady imo 

 

personally i think there are good qbs in the draft though and would trade up to get herbert or tua.

[Hoose]

You have to openly wonder if Castonzo will make his decision based upon who is behind center. And that would also include FAs whom the Colts might covet. No one is going to hitch their future to a ship that’s adrift unless they are well overpaid to do it. And having JB as your QB is a rudderless ship. There is no future with Brissett and you have to believe Ballard knows this. 

[stitches]

54 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Holder and Keefer are really good at towing the line, tempering expectations, etc

 

That said, I do think Ballard and especially Reich like Jacoby. But “much higher” than most are? Doubt it. They painted him as a top 20 QB and I doubt their opinion has changed for the better. I think Ballard’s okay with idea of him starting next year but he’s gotta know that banking on a JB led team in the future is super risky.

He has an excuse for this QB room last season. He's had 2 seasons with Jacoby starting now. Next year he won't have an excuse. It is on him what he puts on the field and on the QB depth chart. 

[stitches]

26 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

You do that.  But understand that that's just YHO. 

 

 

A lot of those numbers were sabotaged by rather low attempt rates.  Which leads to an unsolvable chicken and egg question.

PFF's grade is not dependent on attempt rates. It's a grade on the plays he's made. Tannehill didn't have more attempts and graded in the 90s. 

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

PFF's grade is not dependent on attempt rates. It's a grade on the plays he's made. Tannehill didn't have more attempts and ranked in the 90s. 

 

Having the luxury of a Mariota led Titans is no longer there. Titans and Texans are better at the QB position, IMO, and if the Texans improve on D after letting Crennel go, it is going to be more difficult to get the division from them. 

[DougDew]

55 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Ballard is not going to hitch his future wagon to more than 1 year of JB. 2 out of 3 years of missing the playoffs could quickly become 3 out of 4 years and the seat will start feeling hotter for Ballard, IMO. 

 

If that's true, and it probably is, Ballard is also not going to hitch his wagon to a QB's "potential" that may never be reached.  There has to be a clear level of competency expressed in the short term, IMO.

[HectorRoberts]

I love how we are so anti-Brissett because he’s An average Qb when Carr and rivers are both average qbs on their good days 

[throwing BBZ]

34 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If that's true, and it probably is, Ballard is also not going to hitch his wagon to a QB's "potential" that may never be reached.  There has to be a clear level of competency expressed in the short term, IMO.

 

 I think that is right. I don't see him hitching his wagon to Carr and giving up draft capital of value.
 And the veterans available have question marks. Would they better than JB next season?
Would he go up for Tua or Herbert? I will bet against that. Love is full of question Marks.
 
 

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I think that is right. I don't see him hitching his wagon to Carr and giving up draft capital of value.
 And the veterans available have question marks. Would they better than JB next season?
Would he go up for Tua or Herbert? I will bet against that. Love is full of question Marks.
 
 

Actually, I think Carr or Herbert are the most likely candidates to replace JB, and I think CB wants to replace JB. 

 

They both provide a higher level of play than JB does immediately, yes I think Herbert does right now, but have some room to improve.  Carr could flourish in this system, and in that respect, could be thought of as having a higher ceiling here than with LVR.

 

I think both CB and Irsay want improved QB immediately.  That's why I don't think the "developmental" QB route in the mid rounds is going to be pursued.  There is no way to improve immediately upon the QB play now, not waiting for a guy that might not ever improve upon it.  And in that sense, with all of the interest shown in Love, it makes me wonder that in the end he likes what he's seen, or that adding him is a great fit at this point.

[Fisticuffs111]

40 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

I love how we are so anti-Brissett because he’s An average Qb when Carr and rivers are both average qbs on their good days 

 

Well, Carr is clearly better than JB. I think Rivers is too but I guess there’s at least a debate to be had as to if Rivers is toast.

 

Not that I’m on either bandwagon.

 

[chad72]

 

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Actually, I think Carr or Herbert are the most likely candidates to replace JB, and I think CB wants to replace JB. 

 

They both provide a higher level of play than JB does immediately, yes I think Herbert does right now, but have some room to improve.  Carr could flourish in this system, and in that respect, could be thought of as having a higher ceiling here than with LVR.

 

I think both CB and Irsay want improved QB immediately.  That's why I don't think the "developmental" QB route in the mid rounds is going to be pursued.  There is no way to improve immediately upon the QB play now, not waiting for a guy that might not ever improve upon it.  And in that sense, with all of the interest shown in Love, it makes me wonder that in the end he likes what he's seen, or that adding him is a great fit at this point.

 

For Reich's system, yes, I absolutely think Carr or Herbert will be great fits. Give up the draft capital garnered and move up with certainty, that is the way to go for a rookie QB, I would not mind that a bit if we did that for Tua or Herbert.

[chad72]

30 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

I love how we are so anti-Brissett because he’s An average Qb when Carr and rivers are both average qbs on their good days 

 

Carr does everything JB does but does it better. His YPA and completion percentage improved to a career high and given how Frank loves to involve his TEs, Carr is a very good fit and age is on his side compared to Rivers, who I do not want to take a chance on.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7.8 YPA and 70% completion is not average. HIs TE was his number one receiver. He is perfect for Reichs  system.

[Four2itus]

38 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

I don't see him hitching his wagon to Carr and giving up draft capital of value.
 And the veterans available have question marks. Would they better than JB next season?
Would he go up for Tua or Herbert? I will bet against that. Love is full of question Marks.

Yes. I like Carr, but the likely draft pick loss changes his value. I see no options beyond JB that give a sure, to fairly sure improvement...without a significant price to future risk. 

 

I would also bet against him moving up which would likely cost this years and next years first. 

[chad72]

Just now, Four2itus said:

Yes. I like Carr, but the likely draft pick loss changes his value. I see no options beyond JB that give a sure, to fairly sure improvement...without a significant price to future risk. 

 

I would also bet against him moving up which would likely cost this years and next years first. 

 

Welcome to purgatory then!!!  

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

 

[Four2itus]

40 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Welcome to purgatory then!!!  

Not at all. I lived through the 2-4 wins seasons. Hardly purgatory right now or in the immediate future. Things to me are quite bright. I very solid team is being built.