Ballard falling prey to same problem as Polian?

[NannyMcafee]

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

[dodsworth]

We have had absolutely no D line pressure whatsoever on the QB for two games straight.

[TheBlueAndWhite]

I'm not sure it's any one particular issue, look at the rams, they have Aaron Donald on that line and their defense has been struggling. I think it's more of an effort problem, the D line just doesn't look explosive as it did, I'm not sure if it's because turay isn't playing as much snaps as he was or not. But he was pretty good when he was rushing the passer.

[bhougland]

38 minutes ago, TheBlueAndWhite said:

I'm not sure it's any one particular issue, look at the rams, they have Aaron Donald on that line and their defense has been struggling. I think it's more of an effort problem, the D line just doesn't look explosive as it did, I'm not sure if it's because turay isn't playing as much snaps as he was or not. But he was pretty good when he was rushing the passer.

 

 

I am sick of hearing Eberfluse use the term "effort problem" when talking about our defensive issues.  That is such a lazy coaching answer.  Our team is so worried about getting a loaf that they over purse on almost every play.  The end around was Gruden exploiting this issue.

[1959Colts]

19 minutes ago, bhougland said:

 

 

I am sick of hearing Eberfluse use the term "effort problem" when talking about our defensive issues.  That is such a lazy coaching answer.  Our team is so worried about getting a loaf that they over purse on almost every play.  The end around was Gruden exploiting this issue.

 

This week... They should give Eberflus "a loaf"

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

We had Al Woods, that man was a stud even at his age, underrated too. The mistake was made letting him go. 

 

that said, im not sure how to fix it this season. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

When you play a vanilla defensive scheme your not going to get pressure. Until he starts mixing different looks we won’t get pressure.

[TheBlueAndWhite]

49 minutes ago, bhougland said:

 

 

I am sick of hearing Eberfluse use the term "effort problem" when talking about our defensive issues.  That is such a lazy coaching answer.  Our team is so worried about getting a loaf that they over purse on almost every play.  The end around was Gruden exploiting this issue.

I mean he is the coach, maybe he knows something we don't? Over pursuit is also a form of lack of effort. Do your job,and responsibility on the play, that's what this defense is about. Trusting your teammates, and what I see out there right now, is they don't trust there teammates so they over pursue trying to make a play. Most likely is due to having 3 or 4 rookies out there on D.

[aaron11]

Hunt has disappeared, the edge rushers are not getting home, time to start blitzing.  we have some good blitzers on the second and third level too

[Coffeedrinker]

7 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

Yeah, Al Woods and Hunt kept the LBers clean last year.  This year there is no Al Woods and Hunt seems a bit slower and weaker than last year.  I think they expected Stewart and Lewis to fill those roles.  While Stewart does a good job, I think he has a conditioning problem because he's good for a few plays and then you really see a drop in his explosion off the snap and his ability to occupy space in a hole.

 

Additionally I think they are misusing Autry.  I think Denico is an important piece to the defensive puzzle but he should not be considered a 3 down dlineman.

 

All that being said, I can also understand 'Flus comments about there being an effort problem.  And a perfect example of that is when the QB throws a short pass to anyone, rb, te or wr, rather than reacting once the ball is thrown all the back 7 seem to sit back and let the receiver come to them.  It was very apparent in the Raider game.  Watch how the back 7 of the Raiders reacted with the ball in the air on short passes and compare that to the way the Colts back 7 reacted.

8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

When you play a vanilla defensive scheme your not going to get pressure. Until he starts mixing different looks we won’t get pressure.

They weren't playing a vanilla defense though.

[Defjamz26]

The D-line was always suspect. When you have a line that places a premium on lesser known talent breaking out as opposed to having proven producers, this is what you get. We’re expecting Margus Hunt and Denice Autry to shut down a running game. And I don’t think Tyquan “Doesn’t really have a position” Lewis would have made a difference.

 

The interior of our defensive line hasn’t known talent since Booger McFarland left. Not sure there’s any fixing it this year though. Looking at next year it’s time to either draft two DTs early or sign a big name in FA. Maybe Leonard Williams from the Jets if he’s available.

[Coffeedrinker]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Hunt has disappeared, the edge rushers are not getting home, time to start blitzing.  we have some good blitzers on the second and third level too

I disagree with this... somewhat.  Most teams are, not just against the Colts, but overall, adopting a quick passing game, so the blitz in and of itself is not going to do any good because it still will not get to the QB before he throws.  This has been the response to neutralize the edge rushers.  But I do think some more stunts and bringing, not more, but different guys in a zone blitz type package.

[aaron11]

Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

I disagree with this... somewhat.  Most teams are, not just against the Colts, but overall, adopting a quick passing game, so the blitz in and of itself is not going to do any good because it still will not get to the QB before he throws.  This has been the response to neutralize the edge rushers.  But I do think some more stunts and bringing, not more, but different guys in a zone blitz type package.

need to do something like that, cant sit back in soft zones with no pass rush.  the line backers are getting abused anyway id try sending DL on a blitz or two every game

 

the stunts worked pretty well last year, but we had a better line too

[holeymoley99]

Need to get Jihad Ward in there more,guy made plays last season before his injury. 6 games had 3 sacks and 3 tackle for loss. Barely seeing the field despite D line struggles...

[throwing BBZ]

49 minutes ago, csmopar said:

We had Al Woods, that man was a stud even at his age, underrated too. The mistake was made letting him go. 

 

that said, im not sure how to fix it this season. 

 

 Al had his career year for us in 2017. He was pretty good. Even had 1 sack and 2 QB hits. So far 4.5 sacks and 11 QB hits for his CAREER. Rather abysmal really.
 He was playing about 15 plays a game for us his last season here, and graded on the low side of average.
 And has a career PFF grade of about 64. A plus against the run, but a QB's delight standing in the pocket.
  He is playing for Seattle some this year and IS grading higher than Grover and Hunt against the run. 
Of course he is surrounded by quite a few defenders that are playing at a high level.
 Al did always play hard that is for sure.
Something definitely needs fixed regarding out inside d-line play.

[Imgrandojji]

10 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

It is really, really hard to get a good NT.  They don't grow on trees.

 

As for DT, I honestly think they're getting exposed because of some inadequate play from our LBs.  I think our linebackers are actually the weak link in the front 7.  Losing Leonard was an instant blow to our ability to gain penetration and we're running a 4-3 to cover up our lack of physical strength at LB right now.

 

I think if we need to improve in one area, it's to either pick up 1-2 more impact linebackers, or tohave our current LB group step up in a big way.

[csmopar]

16 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Al had his career year for us in 2017. He was pretty good. Even had 1 sack and 2 QB hits. So far 4.5 sacks and 11 QB hits for his CAREER. Rather abysmal really.
 He was playing about 15 plays a game for us his last season here, and graded on the low side of average.
 And has a career PFF grade of about 64. A plus against the run, but a QB's delight standing in the pocket.
  He is playing for Seattle some this year and IS grading higher than Grover and Hunt against the run. 
Of course he is surrounded by quite a few defenders that are playing at a high level.
 Al did always play hard that is for sure.
Something definitely needs fixed regarding out inside d-line play.

Al wasn't one that was gonna get a bunch of sacks, its the fact that he ate up the center of the line and let the others get to the QB a bit easier. That said, we need an upgrade but thats not happening until April at best

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I disagree with this... somewhat.  Most teams are, not just against the Colts, but overall, adopting a quick passing game, so the blitz in and of itself is not going to do any good because it still will not get to the QB before he throws.  This has been the response to neutralize the edge rushers.  But I do think some more stunts and bringing, not more, but different guys in a zone blitz type package.

 

I think the answer is better coverage.  The young guys are struggling with their zones, and it's making a pass rush irrelevant. 

[Imgrandojji]

A pass rushing LB is high on my shopping list right now.  LBs who can help the pass rush really magnify the impact of your DT.  Haven't really seen that we have LBs that are capable of that at the moment

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

A pass rushing LB is high on my shopping list right now.  LBs who can help the pass rush really magnify the impact of your DT.  Haven't really seen that we have LBs that are capable of that at the moment

 

Didn't DL have 7 sacks last year?

[Fisticuffs111]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I disagree with this... somewhat.  Most teams are, not just against the Colts, but overall, adopting a quick passing game, so the blitz in and of itself is not going to do any good because it still will not get to the QB before he throws.  This has been the response to neutralize the edge rushers.  But I do think some more stunts and bringing, not more, but different guys in a zone blitz type package.

Yeah, the Chargers game was a pretty good example of this. We were getting burnt trying to blitz and it seems like we've shied away from sending extra guys since week 1 for the most part.

[Imgrandojji]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Didn't DL have 7 sacks last year?

Yes he did, if we had 1 more LB on his level I wouldn't be going on about this but without Leonard our D went from looking very strong to looking like hot garbage so I think the depth behind Leonard might just be a touch shallow

 

His injury and its impact on the D serve to make my point for me. We need another really strong LB if we're going to compete for titles.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Yes he did, if we had 1 more LB on his level I wouldn't be going on about this but without Leonard our D went from looking very strong to looking like hot garbage so I think the depth behind Leonard might just be a touch shallow

 

His injury and its impact on the D serve to make my point for me. We need another really strong LB if we're going to compete for titles.

 

I think the staff is being reserved with Okereke and Speed, but I think they have the same ability to blitz as DL, and I think Okereke in particular is an even better tackler than Leonard.

 

I also think the loss of Malik Hooker has been more critical than the loss of DL, since I think the dropoff from Hooker to his replacement(s) is greater than the dropoff from Leonard to his replacements. But I'm hoping Leonard is back Sunday night, and maybe we'll see him and Okereke in there together. 

[boo2202]

Ballard has talked about liking more swings in the draft. IMO he’s missed on some of those 2nd round picks. Players drafted in the 2nd are suppose to contribute or become decent starters.

Turay has just shown flashes, Lewis hasn’t showed much, Basham already gone. I’m sure there’s more i’m Missing. At some point I think you have to move up in the draft to get that dominant DT or end. Also maybe spending some of the cap on a true difference maker on the Dline. Our whole offensive line changed after  drafting Nelson. Would be great if we could find that player for the  Dline. 

[Coffeedrinker]

8 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

Ballard has talked about liking more swings in the draft. IMO he’s missed on some of those 2nd round picks. Players drafted in the 2nd are suppose to contribute or become decent starters.

Turay has just shown flashes, Lewis hasn’t showed much, Basham already gone. I’m sure there’s more i’m Missing. At some point I think you have to move up in the draft to get that dominant DT or end. Also maybe spending some of the cap on a true difference maker on the Dline. Our whole offensive line changed after  drafting Nelson. Would be great if we could find that player for the  Dline. 

It's not a bad philosophy, the only problem with that is, if there is a generational talent at the DT spot, he would be the #1 overall pick or at worst #2 (if there is a QB worthy of a #1 pick).  The chances of picking up a guy like that via trade or FA is next to nil because no team is going to get rid of or not sign a guy like that.

[Imgrandojji]

28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think the staff is being reserved with Okereke and Speed, but I think they have the same ability to blitz as DL, and I think Okereke in particular is an even better tackler than Leonard.

 

I also think the loss of Malik Hooker has been more critical than the loss of DL, since I think the dropoff from Hooker to his replacement(s) is greater than the dropoff from Leonard to his replacements. But I'm hoping Leonard is back Sunday night, and maybe we'll see him and Okereke in there together. 

This is true, but it's kind of beside my point.  The DL is being exposed by the softness of the LB corps, either due to inexperience, being held back due to coaching concerns, not being good in the first place, or a mix of the three.

 

Bottom line hereis that the DLis the obvious issue, but I think the symptoms run deeper and point to the real problem being in the jack-of-all-trades role, the LB corps.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

11 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

 

Signs Hankins, cuts Hankins. Errs towards smaller "speed" guys, now is moving on from speed guys because they're getting bullied. It's hard to pin down his exact philosophy, but it doesn't seem like he's being stubborn about it, & he's at least willing to move on from something that isn't working. That's probably the biggest difference from Polian.

[LockeDown]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think the staff is being reserved with Okereke and Speed, but I think they have the same ability to blitz as DL, and I think Okereke in particular is an even better tackler than Leonard.

 

I also think the loss of Malik Hooker has been more critical than the loss of DL, since I think the dropoff from Hooker to his replacement(s) is greater than the dropoff from Leonard to his replacements. But I'm hoping Leonard is back Sunday night, and maybe we'll see him and Okereke in there together. 

Venturi thinks Eberflus is just being stubborn at this point with his whole defensive philosophy...the whole effort problem.  He thinks it’s a scheme problem because everybody knows what we are going to do due to it’s simplicity. Do you agree ?  

[Superman]

1 hour ago, LockeDown said:

Venturi thinks Eberflus is just being stubborn at this point with his whole defensive philosophy...the whole effort problem.  He thinks it’s a scheme problem because everybody knows what we are going to do due to it’s simplicity. Do you agree ?  

 

I don't listen to Venturi anymore, but last year when he was saying the same thing, it seemed to me to be a problem of Venturi simply not agreeing with the defensive philosophy. If you want a hot fudge sundae, it doesn't matter how delicious this strawberry shortcake is. It's not what you want.

 

In this case, I think Eberflus is fighting with one hand tied behind his back. I think Hooker is the most important coverage player in the scheme, and he's out right now. I think Leonard is the most dynamic player in the front seven, and he's out. I think we're playing a lot of young players who are struggling to cover their zones -- they don't have the awareness and eye discipline they need, and that's something that has to get better. I think we're struggling to tackle, which is something that probably has more to do with the preseason preparation than with the scheme.

 

I also think we should play some different coverages on third downs, but that's hard to call for when we're not playing the basic coverages the right way (from what I see). I think blitzing is the sexy answer, but as Coffee said, blitzing plays into a quick passing attack. Everyone gets upset when corners play off, but without depth to your backfield, you're going to give up big runs. 

 

Like Venturi, I'd prefer a different scheme. I want more Man 1 coverage, more Cover 3, and some tighter contests on the outside. But for what they're trying to do, and with the personnel issues they have, I understand the approach. And I don't think making major adjustments to the scheme is the answer. I think getting better at executing the scheme is critical. From there, you can add different features and really play all your coverages in multiple situations. 

[Jimjohn]

Yes I’ve been watching years of Colt defensive schemes and only once last year against Dallas did I see an offense know they were manhandled. Prescott knee he has so little time to throw it was like watching the Bears defense of old. I really do not understand cover 2 which means cover no one. This has been a consistent problem on third downs no pressure soft cover first down. Watching this defense is like watching a boat sink or dying of cancer if you can’t pressure the quarterback rush 2 guys on third and long and drop back nine guys maybe at least make it exciting. The fans must get weary from cheering on third and long and most times it’s a completion making a first down. I don’t get it maybe someone smarter than me can explain their defensive philosophy 

[CurBeatElite]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think the answer is better coverage.  The young guys are struggling with their zones, and it's making a pass rush irrelevant. 

 

Yes, they go hand in hand... opposing QBs have no problem getting quick passes in against our D which does make the pass rush irrelevant at times... but at other times, the lack of pass rush allows for deeper passes to be completed.

 

I think a fully healthy Sheard will help our DL quite a bit, along with a fully heatlhy T. Lewis (if there's such a thing).

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Signs Hankins, cuts Hankins. Errs towards smaller "speed" guys, now is moving on from speed guys because they're getting bullied. It's hard to pin down his exact philosophy, but it doesn't seem like he's being stubborn about it, & he's at least willing to move on from something that isn't working. That's probably the biggest difference from Polian.

How did you conclude that we’re “moving on from speed guys”..??

 

What moves have we made to support that view?  

 

[CoachLite]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

How did you conclude that we’re “moving on from speed guys”..??

 

What moves have we made to support that view?  

 

Do you consider DL Trevon Coley at 310 lbs a speed guy?

[a06cc]

No not at all. Polian didn’t have his QB and first pick for a coach quit on him. I’m really sick of some of you. It’s always gloom and doom when the team loses. Get over it and move on. We’re a hurt team. I want to see these same questions after we win Sunday. 

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

I also think the loss of Malik Hooker has been more critical than the loss of DL, since I think the dropoff from Hooker to his replacement(s) is greater than the dropoff from Leonard to his replacements. 

 

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

It's not a bad philosophy, the only problem with that is, if there is a generational talent at the DT spot, he would be the #1 overall pick or at worst #2 (if there is a QB worthy of a #1 pick). 

 

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

I don't think making major adjustments to the scheme is the answer. I think getting better at executing the scheme is critical. From there, you can add different features and really play all your coverages in multiple situations. 

Well said, gentlemen. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

How did you conclude that we’re “moving on from speed guys”..??

 

What moves have we made to support that view?  

 

 

I'm not concluding that, I just feel like ditching Ward for a run stuffer 3T/NT 4 games in seems to at least suggest that they're starting to realize we need more size in the middle.

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Do you consider DL Trevon Coley at 310 lbs a speed guy?

 

No, of course not.   But I wouldn’t call a change at one position a philosophical change of “moving on from speed guys.”   Especially given that Ward was third string. 

 

I think it was a poor choice of words.  That’s all.....

 

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, a06cc said:

No not at all. Polian didn’t have his QB and first pick for a coach quit on him. I’m really sick of some of you. It’s always gloom and doom when the team loses. Get over it and move on. We’re a hurt team. I want to see these same questions after we win Sunday. 

Fans do flow from one extreme to another very quickly.  It makes sense, afterall fan is just an abbreviation for FANATIC.  I was just thinking, I don't know which is worse, all the fans that claim the Colts are SB bound after a win or all the fans that act like the Colts need to change everything from the top down every time they lose.

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I'm not concluding that, I just feel like ditching Ward for a run stuffer 3T/NT 4 games in seems to at least suggest that they're starting to realize we need more size in the middle.

Or maybe it's a sign that the size they do have in the middle did not improve like they thought they would.

 

Stewart is a 315-320 guy.  Hunt is a 300lber.  And judging from the way he looks this year compared to last, I would not be surprised if he's not pushing 320.

[Dogg63]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

I also think the loss of Malik Hooker has been more critical than the loss of DL, since I think the dropoff from Hooker to his replacement(s) is greater than the dropoff from Leonard to his replacements. But I'm hoping Leonard is back Sunday night, and maybe we'll see him and Okereke in there together. 

In terms of actual, tangible play, I agree.

 

But in terms of intangibles such as motivating others to be on fire through his incredibly high motor, constantly encouraging teammates, and just generally being Maniac, a whole lot of defensive energy, for many of the defensive players, came off the field along with DL. 

 

I also want him back soon, for his play as well as his attitude. The entire D will benefit in several ways.