Ballard falling prey to same problem as Polian?

[jameszeigler834]

17 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

You hit the nail right on the head our interior Dline is terrible and not big enough.

[CoachLite]

If you read through all the previous comments, and Flus corrects most of them, what do you think the result would be? (As of today) I think we have the personnel, but not the experience to be a very good defense.  Hopefully, it will come together soon.

[Scott Pennock]

18 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

There are a few differences from last year to this year.....

 

1. No Woods - which that position has been filled as of today.

 

2. Hunt played a lot of DE and UT last year which is more in his wheelhouse. He's less effective at DT.

 

3. Walker playing out of position, Okereke being a rookie and even Leonard have not filled their gaps properly in the run game. The dline has kept them fairly clean but I've seen multiple times each game where two linebackers are flying to the same hole leaving one wide open for the 20 yard runs.

 

Let's not jump the gun on painting Ballard into a corner. Go back and look at the interior dlines of the Bears and Chiefs, they both had 300+ big bodies in thier - even with the Meltons and Tommy whats his name.....

 

Considering our dline was solid last year he focused on other, higher priority needs - Willis, Rock, Okereke and Speed to name a few.

[JR Indy]

 I don’t care how fast you are, or how well you can play. If 340, 350 put their hands on you—game over.

This is what happened last week and what will happen if the Colts don’t start signing some 320, 330, to 340lbs DT’s. We will a whole D backfield in concussion protocol.

If they put some real weight  on the line Dauris is quick enough to really make the difference for this team.

Today signing is a step in the right direction. But it should not be the last 

[DougDew]

Is Ballard falling prey to the same NT/DT problem as Polian?  Maybe as far as that position, yes.

 

Ballard hasn't been around long enough to really establish a pattern, but so far the big difference between Ballard and Polian is that Polian valued pass rushers and WRs, generally the skilled/impact positions, with high draft picks and contracts where as Ballard selected a G and FS with the only two high picks he's had, and he's been more stingy with the wallet since there hasn't been any player to really re-sign with a top-ten contract.  Ignoring positional value can catch up with a roster in a few years.  Especially if you miss on the CBs and pass rushers drafted in the 2nd round.

 

The forum was looking for a DT last draft. Sometimes reality strikes and positions just don't line up with value and draft slot like you'd like.  Bad luck too.

[LockeDown]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't listen to Venturi anymore, but last year when he was saying the same thing, it seemed to me to be a problem of Venturi simply not agreeing with the defensive philosophy. If you want a hot fudge sundae, it doesn't matter how delicious this strawberry shortcake is. It's not what you want.

 

In this case, I think Eberflus is fighting with one hand tied behind his back. I think Hooker is the most important coverage player in the scheme, and he's out right now. I think Leonard is the most dynamic player in the front seven, and he's out. I think we're playing a lot of young players who are struggling to cover their zones -- they don't have the awareness and eye discipline they need, and that's something that has to get better. I think we're struggling to tackle, which is something that probably has more to do with the preseason preparation than with the scheme.

 

I also think we should play some different coverages on third downs, but that's hard to call for when we're not playing the basic coverages the right way (from what I see). I think blitzing is the sexy answer, but as Coffee said, blitzing plays into a quick passing attack. Everyone gets upset when corners play off, but without depth to your backfield, you're going to give up big runs. 

 

Like Venturi, I'd prefer a different scheme. I want more Man 1 coverage, more Cover 3, and some tighter contests on the outside. But for what they're trying to do, and with the personnel issues they have, I understand the approach. And I don't think making major adjustments to the scheme is the answer. I think getting better at executing the scheme is critical. From there, you can add different features and really play all your coverages in multiple situations. 

Thanks. Good answer.

[CanuckColt]

16 hours ago, TheBlueAndWhite said:

I'm not sure it's any one particular issue, look at the rams, they have Aaron Donald on that line and their defense has been struggling. I think it's more of an effort problem, the D line just doesn't look explosive as it did, I'm not sure if it's because turay isn't playing as much snaps as he was or not. But he was pretty good when he was rushing the passer.

The Rams lost Suh...it makes a difference.

 

[coltsva]

6 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

  I was just thinking, I don't know which is worse, all the fans that claim the Colts are SB bound after a win or all the fans that act like the Colts need to change everything from the top down every time they lose.

It's the fans who overlap both categories.

 

[compuls1v3]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:36 AM, Coffeedrinker said:

Yeah, Al Woods and Hunt kept the LBers clean last year.  This year there is no Al Woods and Hunt seems a bit slower and weaker than last year.  I think they expected Stewart and Lewis to fill those roles.  While Stewart does a good job, I think he has a conditioning problem because he's good for a few plays and then you really see a drop in his explosion off the snap and his ability to occupy space in a hole.

 

Additionally I think they are misusing Autry.  I think Denico is an important piece to the defensive puzzle but he should not be considered a 3 down dlineman.

 

All that being said, I can also understand 'Flus comments about there being an effort problem.  And a perfect example of that is when the QB throws a short pass to anyone, rb, te or wr, rather than reacting once the ball is thrown all the back 7 seem to sit back and let the receiver come to them.  It was very apparent in the Raider game.  Watch how the back 7 of the Raiders reacted with the ball in the air on short passes and compare that to the way the Colts back 7 reacted.

They weren't playing a vanilla defense though.

I think the ONE lone exception was when Willis came up and made a great tackle for loss, that I remember.  There was also another play where our end stayed home, but the Raiders guy ran all the way back to the other side and gained like 10+ yards...it was a sad play on our part, save for the guy who forced the Raiders guy back the other way.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, compuls1v3 said:

I think the ONE lone exception was when Willis came up and made a great tackle for loss, that I remember.  There was also another play where our end stayed home, but the Raiders guy ran all the way back to the other side and gained like 10+ yards...it was a sad play on our part, save for the guy who forced the Raiders guy back the other way.

Yeah, it's one of the things I like about Willis in the early going.  And I think we will see more of it as he gains confidence.

 

On the other play you mentioned, it was Walker that read it and came up and forced Austin back the other way.  It was a sad play on the Colts part but to give some credit to Oakland, I saw three olineman see what was going on and came back and blocked, if they had not done that someone would have been able to stop that play for a small gain.

[IndyScribe]

This team does need a big body on the line. The defense is also really young so they need time to gel.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 10/1/2019 at 5:44 PM, Scott Pennock said:

There are a few differences from last year to this year.....

 

1. No Woods - which that position has been filled as of today.

 

2. Hunt played a lot of DE and UT last year which is more in his wheelhouse. He's less effective at DT.

 

3. Walker playing out of position, Okereke being a rookie and even Leonard have not filled their gaps properly in the run game. The dline has kept them fairly clean but I've seen multiple times each game where two linebackers are flying to the same hole leaving one wide open for the 20 yard runs.

 

Let's not jump the gun on painting Ballard into a corner. Go back and look at the interior dlines of the Bears and Chiefs, they both had 300+ big bodies in thier - even with the Meltons and Tommy whats his name.....

 

Considering our dline was solid last year he focused on other, higher priority needs - Willis, Rock, Okereke and Speed to name a few.

Our D line looked good because we went up against a lot of  one dimensional offences. They could focus more on the run.  Simply put,  they r playing better offences.  My biggest critism of Ballard and it's a big one.  He has not put premium resources into the D line.  

[r a y s k i]

Because of last year's success, people tend to forget how bad this team's defense was 2-3 years ago. We need time, deal with it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:11 AM, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

The D line and LB'ers had better gap integrity/control and better angles of pursuit last year once they got it together. Hoping for the same this year.

 

On 10/1/2019 at 1:11 AM, NannyMcafee said:

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

He had a chance with McCoy, but felt there was a price point not to exceed (similar to Arians letting him go), and he didn't.

 

On 10/1/2019 at 1:11 AM, NannyMcafee said:

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

 

He knows the roots of this defense well. He was a scout with the Bears from 2001 to 2011 (Dir of College Scouting in 2012). The Bears team when they played the Colts in the Super Bowl?

 

Tommie Harris was the 3 tech, and Tank Johnson the 1 tech.  Their whole D was decent-

DT    Tommie Harris*    
NT    Tank Johnson
DE    Alex Brown
DE    Adewale Ogunleye
MLB    Brian Urlacher*+
LB    Lance Briggs*
LB    Hunter Hillenmeyer
LCB    Charles (Peanut) Tillman
RCB    Nathan Vasher
FS    Danieal Manning

 

Ballard knows this Defense, and how to scout for it.  And has been in communication with Eberflus as well. That means he knows how to task the Colts staff scouts, and assess their scouting reports.  The rest comes down to grading and how the board falls, or what $'s  FA's ask for.

 

 

[ty4atd]

Unless Stewart really steps up his game, we need to invest either in FA or the draft in a NT/DT to go with out smaller DTs like Autry and Lewis

[Scott Pennock]

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Our D line looked good because we went up against a lot of  one dimensional offences. They could focus more on the run.  Simply put,  they r playing better offences.  My biggest critism of Ballard and it's a big one.  He has not put premium resources into the D line.  

And by premium resources you mean Turay, lewis, banogu....all second round picks who have shown moderate success so far in their infantile careers?

 

Or you mean his pursuit of virtually every edge rusher of note only to have other teams pay out of the nose for them?

 

Seems like he's using his resources just fine to me.

[Moosejawcolt]

27 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

And by premium resources you mean Turay, lewis, banogu....all second round picks who have shown moderate success so far in their infantile careers?

 

Or you mean his pursuit of virtually every edge rusher of note only to have other teams pay out of the nose for them?

 

Seems like he's using his resources just fine to me.

They r all undersized.  I promise u by the end of the year u will c this D continue to regress.  I said when Luck went down we will truly see how good a GM Ballard is.  This defence  is flawed .  I never liked it under Dungy and we r going through the same problems under Ballard.  The players across the board r all undersized.   It's a simple D for opposing offences to dissect.  Go back to last year.  Take a look at all the teams the Colts played who had above average qbs.  They got beat on.  I am not trying to b negative.  It's the truth and   all I hear them say is gap control...sound familiar??? What sucks is that Ballard has drafted the last 2 years picking undersized players toc fit this scheme.  What happens if at the end of the year if they decide they have to go in a different direction defensively??  We will b starting all over cause alot of the line backers and D line r to light to play in a conventional defence. Just my thoughts.

[DougDew]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:11 AM, NannyMcafee said:

It would seem we have again put less value on the NT and DT position. Is it just me? The Colts were better against the run (last year), and our LBers were able to get to ball carriers easier because we had decent play from the interior dline. Am I right or am I wrong? 

 

Maybe Ballard is waiting for talent he likes, but at this point in time it is looking like a mistake skipping out on the FA from the Bucs, who's name I cannot recall.... McCoy? 

 

I am questioning his Philosophy on the interior dline. It isn't all about speed. 

Having thought about this again, how Ballard approaches positional value, I'm not sure how Tyquan Lewis fits in.  I think the FO thinks of him as an interior player, and they gave up the 118th pick and the 67th pick to move up to 64 to select him, so I would say that is a pretty good sign that Ballard values interior dline players.  I don't recall Polian ever moving up to get a dlineman in any round.

 

Just to add some color about Polian.  He valued skilled position players and players who defended the skilled position players.  Just from memory, his first round picks were:

 

PM (QB), Reggie (WR), Dallas (Receiver), Freeney (EDGE) Anthony Gonzalez (WR), Edge (RB), Dammit Donald (RB) Tony Ugoh (LT trade), Marlin Jackson (#1CB), and AC (LT).

 

I don't remember them all, but he also somewhat reluctantly picked LB Rob Morris in the first (late first).

 

For more color, Grigson picked Luck (QB), Werner (DE), TRich (RB trade), Dorsett (WR), and Kelly (C).  He also seemed to value skilled positions, but his player selection was not as good as Polians.

 

Ballard has selected Hooker (FS), Nelson (G), and traded away a first to select Ya-Sin (CB) (whom I assume he would have drafted at 26 if he had to).

 

That spans about 20 years and three GMs, and nowhere did I type (DT) with a first round pick.  LOL.