2 Colts among PFF's top graded rookie OL

[zibby43]

I expect Nelson's grade to rise with AC back. 

 

 

[GusFring]

You take tackles in the top 10, not guards. Looks bad for Ballard imo. 

[braveheartcolt]

10 minutes ago, GusFring said:

You take tackles in the top 10, not guards. Looks bad for Ballard imo. 

It does look bad, but not for Ballard. Guess who it looks bad for? Got a mirror handy....?

[GusFring]

3 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

It does look bad, but not for Ballard. Guess who it looks bad for? Got a mirror handy....?

Weren't u 1 of the give Pagano time guys?

[braveheartcolt]

1 minute ago, GusFring said:

Weren't u 1 of the give Pagano time guys?

Clutching at straws. Come back with an argument on topic, don't just make stuff up.

[zibby43]

I've been really impressed by Nelson.  Having a player of AC's caliber next to him now will further help his development.  Heck, just having some stability at that LT position alone is a positive for Big Q.

 

Really encouraged by Smith as well.  I can't believe I'm typing this, but if the Colts draft a talented LT and sign another RG/RT in the off-season, this line will start to look formidable. 

[threeflight]

This goes along with what I have been saying for weeks.

 

If you are going to take a safety and a guard early in the first round, they had damn well better be ALL PRO almost immediately because the importance of those positions is way way down there.

 

As far as Nelson, he has been....ok. Certainly not anywhere close to the #6 pick in the draft when you take his position into consideration.  He should be dominating with being picked that early.

 

Remember he was an All World can't miss best ever right?

 

Uh.....yeah.

[braveheartcolt]

Once upon a time, there were three Billy Goats Gruff.........and one day as they were walking towards a river, a voice boomed down from above "do not cross that bridge, there is an internet poster hiding under there. 

 

Etc.

[Luck 4 president]

If Nelson never reaches all-pro status he will be considered a bust. I hope he improves fast because so far he is far from elite status. 

[Flash7]

Hmmm... Will Hernandez ranked pretty high.

[NorthernBlue]

Just now, Flash7 said:

Hmmm... Will Hernandez ranked pretty high.

Wasn’t he the guy Ballard wanted before Smith at 37?

[Flash7]

Not sure, but many on this forum wanted Ballard to trade back one more time, forego drafting Nelson, accumulate more picks and draft Hernandez instead. They were saying the drop off betweeen Nelson and Hernandez was minimal.

[Goatface Killah]

41 minutes ago, threeflight said:

This goes along with what I have been saying for weeks.

 

If you are going to take a safety and a guard early in the first round, they had damn well better be ALL PRO almost immediately because the importance of those positions is way way down there.

 

As far as Nelson, he has been....ok. Certainly not anywhere close to the #6 pick in the draft when you take his position into consideration.  He should be dominating with being picked that early.

 

Remember he was an All World can't miss best ever right?

 

Uh.....yeah.

Have you been watching? The Colts have faced quite the gaunlet of interior DL so far, and Nelson has been fantastic. I can think of a handful of plays he has lost a 1-1 battle so far.

 

What the hell do people expect from rookies in the first games of their career?

 

What a short memory you must have because our interior has heen excellent. The Colts line is rated 10th on PFF, and our tackles have been the weak spot  We had one of the worst lines in football last season. If that isnt impact, I dont know what is. 

 

Its just not flashy. And people are hating on him because the team is 1-5.

[Luck 4 president]

8 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Not sure, but many on this forum wanted Ballard to trade back one more time, forego drafting Nelson, accumulate more picks and draft Hernandez instead. They were saying the drop off betweeen Nelson and Hernandez was minimal.

That’s exactly what I wanted. I wanted to trade with the Bills for their 12, both their 2nds and next years 1st. Next years 1st could easily be a top 3 pick. They 100% would have taken that because they would have been able to keep their 2nd 1st round pick this year. And idk why Ballard didn’t trade up for Hernandez. Him and Nelson could have been special together. 

[Luck 4 president]

2 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Have you been watching? The Colts have faced quite the gaunlet of interior DL so far, and Nelson has been fantastic. I can think of a handful of plays he has lost a 1-1 battle so far.

 

What the hell do people expect from rookies in the first games of their career?

 

What a short memory you must have because our interior has heen excellent. The Colts line is rated 10th on PFF, and we had one of the worst lines in football last season. If that isnt impact, I dont know what is. 

 

Its just not flashy. And people are hating on him because the team is 1-5.

He’s played above average, but not good or great. He gave up some costly sacks one of which (by Clowney) cost us the game. But when you use such a high pick on a guard, he is expected to play at a high level right away. 

[Goatface Killah]

Cost us the game? Cmon man. Above average isnt good? 

 

Do you remember the swiss cheese we have had inside? 

 

Luck is on pace for the record in attempts. He is passing alot. Jadaveon Clowney is really good. And Nelson was in his 5th game. What about the other 99% of the game? 

 

He has been very, very good, against really good competition, and will only get better. 

 

 

[jchandler7]

Could Ballard have done better in the last 2 draft...yes. I guarentee he himself would say the same. Every GM misses a few picks. However, anybody complaining about Nelson must have short term memory. Guard was a major need for this team. He is a very good player and was one of the best guards to come out in a long time. 

[braveheartcolt]

20 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

He’s played above average, but not good or great. He gave up some costly sacks one of which (by Clowney) cost us the game. But when you use such a high pick on a guard, he is expected to play at a high level right away. 

Why you are not employed by an NFL organisation is beyond me. Goodness, are those owners stupid or what.

[Goatface Killah]

6 minutes ago, jchandler7 said:

Could Ballard have done better in the last 2 draft...yes. I guarentee he himself would say the same. Every GM misses a few picks. However, anybody complaining about Nelson must have short term memory. Guard was a major need for this team. He is a very good player and was one of the best guards to come out in a long time. 

I think every GM could say that. But when we took Hooker, I totally understood the pick, and I think Hooker is really good. Same with Nelson. It wasnt like he reached for either guy. I felt like in both cases, he took the guy he thought had the highest ceiling at a position of need. And I think both of those guys are gonna be multiple all pro type of players. That makes them great picks because thats exactly what you are looking for.

 

Another part of it is character. If Hooker comes in and you think he is a great young man and would like to have him in the locker room....... Why would you choose another guy, who might not be as impressive as a person, because he plays a position deemed more important by an algorithm?

 

These are the things GMs make decisions on, while fans look solely at stats and rankings done by people who dont have to worry about that.

[LockeDown]

1 hour ago, Luck 4 president said:

That’s exactly what I wanted. I wanted to trade with the Bills for their 12, both their 2nds and next years 1st. Next years 1st could easily be a top 3 pick. They 100% would have taken that because they would have been able to keep their 2nd 1st round pick this year. And idk why Ballard didn’t trade up for Hernandez. Him and Nelson could have been special together. 

So, why can’t Smith and Nelson be special? They are both on the list.   He did that without trading up, which would have cost us a pick.  Smith can play guard and tackle it looks like and Hernandez is a guard only.  That opens up more opportunities for next years draft.  Our Oline is playing great.  It’s our receivers who are dropping balls.

[Luck 4 president]

1 hour ago, LockeDown said:

So, why can’t Smith and Nelson be special? They are both on the list.   He did that without trading up, which would have cost us a pick.  Smith can play guard and tackle it looks like and Hernandez is a guard only.  That opens up more opportunities for next years draft.  Our Oline is playing great.  It’s our receivers who are dropping balls.

Hopefully they will be special. Smith has played well in limited snaps, but Hernandez seems to be on another level. Imo it would have been smarter to trade up for him than tyquan Lewis later that round. I think Lewis still would have been there in round 3. 

[Luck 4 president]

2 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Why you are not employed by an NFL organisation is beyond me. Goodness, are those owners stupid or what.

I’m just stating facts. I’m not hating on Nelson but a 68 grade is in fact above average and just below Good. And was I wrong to say we should expect a guard taken at 6 to play at a high level right away? Teams never spend picks that high on guards but since we did Nelson better become the best guard ever, and I hope he does. The only positions I wouldn’t expect to play at a high level right away would be QB and DE. 

[ClaytonColt]

Nelson was supposed to be "generational" so you can't blame people for judging him against that level. Good or average won't quite stack up.

 

Lets be fair. When Austin Blythe is the top rated player at his position we're not exactly setting the bar high for comparison . 

[braveheartcolt]

Generational? When? In his first 6 starts. I know some 1st round HOFers who didn't light it up immediately.

 

Expecting rookies to always start like peo bowlers is foolish. I know, I know, you can quote me exceptions. Big deal.

 

With Andrew a major unknown, it was a exceptional choice. For the moment.

[ClaytonColt]

19 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Generational? When? In his first 6 starts. I know some 1st round HOFers who didn't light it up immediately.

 

When people were talking about drafting him. That was the adjective which was used. 

[Mr.Debonair]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

Generational? When? In his first 6 starts. I know some 1st round HOFers who didn't light it up immediately.

 

Expecting rookies to always start like peo bowlers is foolish. I know, I know, you can quote me exceptions. Big deal.

 

With Andrew a major unknown, it was a exceptional choice. For the moment.

Like it or not those are the fan expectations. Especially when a team who lacks major playmakers and impact players. Ppl are going to want that OL that you took that high deliver immediately. Just is what it is for the most part. May be silly to you but doesn’t make it wrong

[John Hammonds]

Why does this thread have to reduce itself to the same old argument of what we would have done had we been the GM, and why Ballard is so stupid, and how we all know more about how to assess and draft players than the professionals and blah blah blah blah....

 

I'm with you, @zibby43, let's celebrate the fact that, for just about the first time in living memory (or at least since the superbowl days), we have 2 linemen in the top 5, and our OL is ranked in the top 10.  I say GOOD!

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, GusFring said:

You take tackles in the top 10, not guards. Looks bad for Ballard imo. 

Funny, being both of those are guards. One of which got throw in at RT and is holding his own

[richard pallo]

I think Smith has only played in two games out of the six.  Good for him being on the list but I would dare say the other players on this list have played considerably more snaps.  A larger sample size as the saying goes.  Hope he keeps it going though.

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, threeflight said:

This goes along with what I have been saying for weeks.

 

If you are going to take a safety and a guard early in the first round, they had damn well better be ALL PRO almost immediately because the importance of those positions is way way down there.

 

As far as Nelson, he has been....ok. Certainly not anywhere close to the #6 pick in the draft when you take his position into consideration.  He should be dominating with being picked that early.

 

Remember he was an All World can't miss best ever right?

 

Uh.....yeah.

 

I’m glad YOU love your opinion...   because as best as I can tell, very few others do. 

 

But keep on going...   have fun...

 

[pgt_rob]

Who cares that we took Nelson at #6. We already traded back from #3 and got some picks and Nelson has been doing great for us. People have cried that our O-Line is atrocious and now that we are addressing it, people are butt-hurt that we picked Nelson at #6 when he's probably more like a #10 - #15 pick. Who cares?!

[Coffeedrinker]

3 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

I’m just stating facts. I’m not hating on Nelson but a 68 grade is in fact above average and just below Good. And was I wrong to say we should expect a guard taken at 6 to play at a high level right away? Teams never spend picks that high on guards but since we did Nelson better become the best guard ever, and I hope he does. The only positions I wouldn’t expect to play at a high level right away would be QB and DE. 

Actually you are not stating facts, you are stating on opinion based on a PFF grade.  And quite frankly a PFF grade means very little especially when it comes to offensive lineman.  

 

I've watched a couple of Giants games and I watched Hernandez specifically because he was a player I thought would be good if the Colts drafted him.  And he's play ok... above average bordering on good, which IMO is excellent for a rookie, especially because the Giants line is trash.  That being said, Hernandez and not been really anywhere close to Nelson in effectiveness.  Nelson is a rookie and he is losing some battles but when you look at his technique in just about all situations, he quickness, his strength and his ability to keep his head on a swivel and adjust during the play to what the defense is doing, it's been uncanny for a rookie.  He was worth every bit of a 6th pick in the draft.

[Shive]

All this talk of who we could have had or traded back to get with the benefit of hindsight is asinine. Ballard said he picked Smith where he did, because the other Guards he had rated just above him went earlier than expected. Ss much as I liked him, there is no scenario where we ended up with Hernandez.

 

The reality is that we have Nelson and Smith, who have both been asked to pass block more frequently than just about any other Guards in the NFL, on a per game basis, and have shown to be more than capable. They say to allow 3 years to truly judge a draft pick and here we are crying about Nelson not lighting the world on fire after 5 weeks. He may not be a pro bowler in his first season, but if he can consistently be one the next 7-10 years, I'd count his selection as a win.

[Finball]

6 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

That’s exactly what I wanted. I wanted to trade with the Bills for their 12, both their 2nds and next years 1st. Next years 1st could easily be a top 3 pick. They 100% would have taken that because they would have been able to keep their 2nd 1st round pick this year. And idk why Ballard didn’t trade up for Hernandez. Him and Nelson could have been special together. 

 

Their GM said he wasn't willing to give up more than 1st rounder and no future picks. The latter for the exact reason many here wished we would get their 1st. They could be really bad. Bad OL, bad receivers and rookie QB.

[Pelt]

Six games into his career and people expect Nelson to be one of the elite lineman in the league already? Rather imbicilic. 

[TheMarine]

"Must be all pro right away with the #6 overall"

 

Lets see...
Name - Draft Position - Rookie Year Stats
Marvin Harrison (19) - 66 receptions 836 yards 8 TD
Peyton GD Manning (1) - 3-13, 326 completions 56.7% completion rate, 26 TD 28 INT

Freeney (11) - 8 games started 9 fumbles caused 1 recovery 13 sacks
Bob Sanders (44) - 6 games played 2 fumble recoveries 1 TD 34 tackles

Reggie (30) - 27 receptions 0 TDs 345 yards

Dallas Clark (24) - 29 receptions 340 yards 1 TD
 

Yeah, 1st year certainly indicates final potential

 

And now just looking at the #6 overall picks in recent years with Rookie year stats or current PFF grades
2017 - Jamal Adams, Jets (S) - 6 PD, 1 FF, 82 tackle

2016 - Ronnie Stanley, Ravens (OT) Grading at 76.5 this year
2015 - Leonard Williams, Jets (DE) - 3 sacks 63 tackles 21 QB hits

2014 - Jake Mathews, falcons, (OT) Current 77.8 Grade

2013 - Barkevious Mingo, Browns (DE) - 5 sack 42 tackles 12 QB Hits, Currently with 3rd NFL team

2012 - Morris Claiborne, Cowboys (CB) - 1 INT, 1 TD, 8 Pass D, 55 tackles, with 2nd NFL team

[lollygagger8]

Idc what anyone says, taking Nelson at #6 was the right move. Everyone seems to forget all too quickly how bad this O-Line has been over the last few years and how many hits the Colts QB's have taken. It's a miracle Brissett didn't get put on IR last year. 

 

Nelson is a beast. He's been playing next to a revolving door at LT and has held his own against the best players and best D-Lines in football. 

 

Smith is a guard who is playing out of his mind at RT and has exceeded expectations by a long shot. 

 

PFF grades are to be taken with a huge grain of salt, but these two rookies have been more than impressive. 

[PeterBowman]

39 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Actually you are not stating facts, you are stating on opinion based on a PFF grade.  And quite frankly a PFF grade means very little especially when it comes to offensive lineman.  

 

I've watched a couple of Giants games and I watched Hernandez specifically because he was a player I thought would be good if the Colts drafted him.  And he's play ok... above average bordering on good, which IMO is excellent for a rookie, especially because the Giants line is trash.  That being said, Hernandez and not been really anywhere close to Nelson in effectiveness.  Nelson is a rookie and he is losing some battles but when you look at his technique in just about all situations, he quickness, his strength and his ability to keep his head on a swivel and adjust during the play to what the defense is doing, it's been uncanny for a rookie.  He was worth every bit of a 6th pick in the draft.

also keep in mind who Nelson has gone up against in his first 6 starts too....other than Aaron Donald, he's pretty much gone up against the best D lineman the NFL has to offer.

[MikeCurtis]

Sheeze........... Some people on this forum would complain about the dirt in the tailpipe of a new Ferrari that has been GIVEN to them for FREE 

 

Our OL is improving over anything we have had the past 5 years

 

Our QB seems to have a fighting chance

 

Give the OL some time together, give them time with a positional coach from the pros, give them an additional offseason ....... I think that you will see some amazing things.......

 

You are already seeing the start.......  Rookies almost always improve........

 

You have 2 starters on the OL from this draft........  

 

We can now focus on other areas to build on this team

 

I dnt always agree with the Colts F.O., BUT.......  they are actually following a plan....... 

 

 

 

[csmopar]

9 hours ago, GusFring said:

You take tackles in the top 10, not guards. Looks bad for Ballard imo. 

Other than McGlinchey, there wasn't a Tackle rated that high... Number 2: we desperately needed a Guard. and we got the best one to come out in a decade.

9 hours ago, GusFring said:

Weren't u 1 of the give Pagano time guys?

Aren't you one of the ones that cried for Ballard's head by week 1 of the preseason? Yep thought so

8 hours ago, threeflight said:

This goes along with what I have been saying for weeks.

 

If you are going to take a safety and a guard early in the first round, they had damn well better be ALL PRO almost immediately because the importance of those positions is way way down there.

 

As far as Nelson, he has been....ok. Certainly not anywhere close to the #6 pick in the draft when you take his position into consideration.  He should be dominating with being picked that early.

 

Remember he was an All World can't miss best ever right?

 

Uh.....yeah.

I suggest you look at the hall of fame, i bet you could pick pretty much any of them and look at their rookie stats and I bet less than 10% were "all-pro" status. Even the GOAT, Peyton Freaking Manning, wasn't all that special.  Marvin, Reggie, Freeny, Mathis, non completely lit it up 5 games into their rookie years.  This ain't Madden on Playstation.