Will this clip squash the concern over Luck's arm strength?

[zibby43]

Is this a frozen rope shot out of a tank's cannon?  No.

 

Is it a ridiculously good, off-platform throw?  Yup.   Across his body and across the field. 

 

 

[RollerColt]

The moral of the story in this online community: there are always two sides to a debate, and you’ll never convince either side to agree with each other... 

[Fat Clemenza]

Thanks for sharing, but there are many who will not be happy until they see Luck taking seven stop drops and connecting on 60 yard bombs like in the Arians/Chud chunk play days. 

 

Personally I'm not worried and am glad Reich is not letting him get pummeled behind backup offensive tackles going against some of the better d lines in the league. I'm fine with taking it slow, we aren't going to the Super Bowl this year with Luck, but we might next year so lets keep him healthy and give him and the offense some time!

[IinD]

I think some people (not knocking anyone) just gotta give the guy some time also. 

 

He's even talked about what a dark time this was in his life. This is like mile one in a long race after you've been hurt. It's human nature to maybe favor the recent injury a little when you're reintroduced back into a sport.

 

We're positive he's healthy to play, but that doesn't mean he's clicking fully yet. Could be a combo of gun-shy, a little doubt maybe in his progressions?? Maybe he's short arming passes because he hasn't gotten his 'touch' back??

 

Still early in his comeback. He's proven in the past he can play well. 

[IinD]

9 minutes ago, Fat Clemenza said:

Thanks for sharing, but there are many who will not be happy until they see Luck taking seven stop drops and connecting on 60 yard bombs like in the Arians/Chud chunk play days. 

 

Personally I'm not worried and am glad Reich is not letting him get pummeled behind backup offensive tackles going against some of the better d lines in the league. I'm fine with taking it slow, we aren't going to the Super Bowl this year with Luck, but we might next year so lets keep him healthy and give him and the offense some time!

Totally agree. Just because he's healthy now doesn't mean we should put him in harms way if we can prevent it early on in his comeback. 

 

Doesn't do the franchise any good to get him killed, backups at key spots on the Oline right now. Play it safe for now.

[Four2itus]

Fans are sometimes without conscious and frankly, it's embarrassing. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

He’s exactly where I expected him to be. I thought September would be kinda rough considering the defenses they’re facing, & factor in starting tackles being out, plus no run game, it could honestly be a lot worse.

[P'Son]

That was a good, tough throw.  Probably why he had nothing left after that attempt.

[LockeDown]

FWIW, Luck has always been good at throwing on the run and across his body. I think he prefers it to sitting in the pocket. 

[NewColtsFan]

No....   this does nothing to address any concerns.    One throw means nothing.

 

He under-threw a 5-yard slant to Hilton.   Short-hopped it.   How do you under throw a 5-yard slant.   But Luck did.

 

If my one throw is to be dismissed, then the same happens with this throw. 

 

My comments were were based on the entirety of Luck’s performance which I thought was shockingly poor.   A level of regression I was not expecting.

 

I have some hope for a bounce back this week.  A home game against a division rival.   A must win for both teams.   Hope to see a different Andrew Luck this week.

 

 

[DougDew]

I think Luck's arm talent and strength looks the same now as its always been.  From a pure arm talent perspective....... strength, accuracy, release....Luck was never really top 5.  He was probably top 10.

 

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, RollerColt said:

The moral of the story in this online community: there are always two sides to a debate, and you’ll never convince either side to agree with each other... 

It's like our current politician poop show. Or libs vs conservative. I don't know why we can't seem to meet in the middle anymore

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

It's like our current politician poop show. Or libs vs conservative. I don't know why we can't seem to meet in the middle anymore

My guess is because few people want to admit they are sometimes wrong... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think Luck's arm talent and strength looks the same now as its always been.  From a pure arm talent perspective....... strength, accuracy, release....Luck was never really top 5.  He was probably top 10.

 

Luck was a Top 5 QB in 2014, it's not even debatable. He led the league in TD's with 40 and was 3rd in Yards with over 4700. We also went 11-5 and made the AFC Title Game. Luck's 2014 Season is pretty equal to Matt Ryan's 2016 Season and Ryan won MVP that season. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

41 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It's like our current politician poop show. Or libs vs conservative. I don't know why we can't seem to meet in the middle anymore

I agree it's a major "poop show". Hey whatever makes people happy being negative, more power to them. A loss brings out the worse in people and the QB and Coach are the 2 that always get blamed. That is the way most fans think. Luck could throw for 300 Yards on Sunday but if we lose nobody cares. It's about wins and losses as I have said since I started watching Football in the late 70's. If we went 13-3 and Luck only averaged 200 Yards passing a game he would be a King to most people.

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree it's a major "poop show". Hey whatever makes people happy being negative, more power to them. A loss brings out the worse in people and the QB and Coach are the 2 that always get blamed. That is the way most fans think. Luck could throw for 300 Yards on Sunday but if we lose nobody cares. It's about wins and losses as I have said since I started watching Football in the late 70's. If we went 13-3 and Luck only averaged 200 Yards passing a game he would be a King to most people.

You hit the nail on the head brother. 

[coltsfeva]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

No....   this does nothing to address any concerns.    One throw means nothing.

 

He under-threw a 5-yard slant to Hilton.   Short-hopped it.   How do you under throw a 5-yard slant.   But Luck did.

 

If my one throw is to be dismissed, then the same happens with this throw. 

 

My comments were were based on the entirety of Luck’s performance which I thought was shockingly poor.   A level of regression I was not expecting.

 

I have some hope for a bounce back this week.  A home game against a division rival.   A must win for both teams.   Hope to see a different Andrew Luck this week.

 

 

  Ran across this, this morning. Maybe things aren’t as bad as they seem. Hopefully, we’ll see progress throughout the year.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-colts-andrew-luck-shoulder-injury-deep-passes-video/amp

[Jeremy Waldon]

10 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

He’s exactly where I expected him to be. I thought September would be kinda rough considering the defenses they’re facing, & factor in starting tackles being out, plus no run game, it could honestly be a lot worse.

I think the game plan and play calling will change alot once Turbo is back starting at RB he is a better blocker than any other back we have, which is what is needed before you let LUCK take any shots down field, gotta have a back pick up rushers and watching the edges 

[The Fish]

12 hours ago, Fat Clemenza said:

Thanks for sharing, but there are many who will not be happy until they see Luck taking seven stop drops and connecting on 60 yard bombs like in the Arians/Chud chunk play days. 

 

Personally I'm not worried and am glad Reich is not letting him get pummeled behind backup offensive tackles going against some of the better d lines in the league. I'm fine with taking it slow, we aren't going to the Super Bowl this year with Luck, but we might next year so lets keep him healthy and give him and the offense some time!

As someone who's worried, this what the other side of the coin is- good point.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I think Luck's arm talent and strength looks the same now as its always been.  From a pure arm talent perspective....... strength, accuracy, release....Luck was never really top 5.  He was probably top 10.

 

 

Like concussion tests, it is the baseline that needs to be corrected as opposed to the expectation.

[Superman]

That throw impressed me during the game. But to answer your question, no, it won't convince anyone who is already concerned about Luck's arm strength. 

 

I'm not concerned at this point because I believe his arm needs more rehab before it's 100%, but if he keeps working with throwing coaches and improving his entire throwing process from the ground up, I think his arm can be more than strong enough. He'll never be Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen, but he'll be able to throw the ball long and accurate, and he'll be able to fire the short and intermediate consistently. 

[Fat Clemenza]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

No....   this does nothing to address any concerns.    One throw means nothing.

 

He under-threw a 5-yard slant to Hilton.   Short-hopped it.   How do you under throw a 5-yard slant.   But Luck did.

 

If my one throw is to be dismissed, then the same happens with this throw. 

 

My comments were were based on the entirety of Luck’s performance which I thought was shockingly poor.   A level of regression I was not expecting.

 

I have some hope for a bounce back this week.  A home game against a division rival.   A must win for both teams.   Hope to see a different Andrew Luck this week.

 

 

 

These are excellent points.  I agree that those throws were bad and a bit troubling.

 

May I submit that maybe (hopefully?!?) some of these mistakes are due to the following MENTAL issues, to wit:

a) he was playing his third game after a 616 day layoff

b) he was playing his third game under his fourth offensive coordinator since joining the Colts

c) he is playing in a completely different system than he has ever played in, including the Harbaugh/Hamilton system he played at Stanford. 

d) getting rid of the ball via quick touch passes were never his strong suit even before the injury.

e) before, he was young and being injured wasn't even in his head as he stood there while Glowinski and Satele acted like turnstyles.  A year ago he didn't even know if he'd ever play football again.  Now he's having to stand there while he's had like 6 different sub-par RT /LT combos in three games.  Maybe that's in his head a bit?

 

Not only is he having to come back from a virtually unprecedented layoff, he's being asked to come back and play the position completely differently than he ever has, behind OTs he can't trust at all.

 

Mental comfort and readiness affects physical/game performance.  That's why I'm still in the not panicked yet camp.  But time will tell.  I'm hoping for good things this Sunday, but I'm nervous about Haeg / Clark vs Watt / Clowney.

[Fat Clemenza]

56 minutes ago, Superman said:

That throw impressed me during the game. But to answer your question, no, it won't convince anyone who is already concerned about Luck's arm strength. 

 

I'm not concerned at this point because I believe his arm needs more rehab before it's 100%, but if he keeps working with throwing coaches and improving his entire throwing process from the ground up, I think his arm can be more than strong enough. He'll never be Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen, but he'll be able to throw the ball long and accurate, and he'll be able to fire the short and intermediate consistently. 

 

This is another good point, underscoring the mental aspect- he has had to re-train himself to throw the football in a new way as well.  I think he's doing well all things considered.

[NannyMcafee]

15 hours ago, IinD said:

I think some people (not knocking anyone) just gotta give the guy some time also. 

 

He's even talked about what a dark time this was in his life. This is like mile one in a long race after you've been hurt. It's human nature to maybe favor the recent injury a little when you're reintroduced back into a sport.

 

We're positive he's healthy to play, but that doesn't mean he's clicking fully yet. Could be a combo of gun-shy, a little doubt maybe in his progressions?? Maybe he's short arming passes because he hasn't gotten his 'touch' back??

 

Still early in his comeback. He's proven in the past he can play well. 

 

Included is the fact that he has a new throwing motion to get used to. 

[IinD]

9 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Included is the fact that he has a new throwing motion to get used to. 

Very true.

 

We definitely gotta chill a little with the heavy critiquing right now. I'm sure he's going through things we don't know about. 

 

If we get to December and he's lobbing them out there and getting picked off left and right... Then I think panic is understandable. But to me it just goes into the 'bad game' category that every athlete has right now until it's obvious he doesn't have an NFL arm anymore.

[indyagent17]

16 hours ago, zibby43 said:

Is this a frozen rope shot out of a tank's cannon?  No.

 

Is it a ridiculously good, off-platform throw?  Yup.   Across his body and across the field. 

 

 

No, It does not tell us anything, his arm strength is average now, hope he gets the strength back soon. BTW that is a throw that any starting quarterback could throw.

[hoosierhawk]

In the clip above that pointed out the 5 passes that prove he is back one thing is fairly consistent and that is he has a receiver open. if you rewatch Sundays' game and compare his receivers to the Philly receivers he seldom had anyone open vs Wentz had wide open receivers, especially the TEs. I felt that there were two touchdowns that were dropped, one by Rogers and one by Ebron. Huge difference in how we would have judged him.

I do agree that he doesn't have the arm strength that he has had in the past but I believe it will come as he gains more confidence in his shoulder, his receivers and his protection. Lets give him more than three games.

[Tombstone]

He had a five yard running momentum before he throw the ball. He better had something on it.  But like someone said earlier he was working his way back from the Ground up.  The fact that the first two games of the season he miss TY on deep throws is evidence work is still needed.  He use to hit those with ease.  Hell he didn't throw deep in preason so Im not expecting him to just start chonk it right now....  By Mid seasons is a different stoy

[2006Coltsbestever]

If we win Sunday, I am going to create a Thread titled 'Andrew Luck biggest CANNON arm in the NFL'

[Myles]

I don't really question Lucks arm, I question the mind that is directing it.

It is obvious to everyone that he is not back to "old Luck" form at this time.   In fact, to me it seems he is pretty far away from it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

I don't really question Lucks arm, I question the mind that is directing it.

It is obvious to everyone that he is not back to "old Luck" form at this time.   In fact, to me it seems he is pretty far away from it.

Only thing that will stop people from being critical of Luck is winning. It's ashame we couldn't pull that off Sunday but stuff happens.

[dw49]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

No....   this does nothing to address any concerns.    One throw means nothing.

 

He under-threw a 5-yard slant to Hilton.   Short-hopped it.   How do you under throw a 5-yard slant.   But Luck did.

 

If my one throw is to be dismissed, then the same happens with this throw. 

 

My comments were were based on the entirety of Luck’s performance which I thought was shockingly poor.   A level of regression I was not expecting.

 

I have some hope for a bounce back this week.  A home game against a division rival.   A must win for both teams.   Hope to see a different Andrew Luck this week.

 

 

 

I would say that there's a good chance that Luck messed his footwork up when he short-hopped that throw Hilton. I think Luck needs to get more comfortable with the receivers and maybe a little better tackle play and maybe we'll see him drive the ball a bit better.

[IinD]

8 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I would say that there's a good chance that Luck messed his footwork up when he short-hopped that throw Hilton. I think Luck needs to get more comfortable with the receivers and maybe a little better tackle play and maybe we'll see him drive the ball a bit better.

I recall thinking while watching he's definitely more conscious about his footwork I noticed on certain plays. Probably thinking more then usual while he's trying to work his way back to form.

 

I truly think we're jumping the gun on him right now.

[will426]

Luck could always throw and still can. His only issue which he has always had is  his velocity on his throw..he doesn’t throw hard much and often lobs balls..but I also think he’s more accurate when he’s lobbing the ball instead of throwing with a lot of velocity..he tends to throw high when he throws it hard  used to get picked off a lot early on due to some of those high tipped throws and our receivers couldn’t catch as well

[Alex22]

On 9/26/2018 at 12:16 PM, zibby43 said:

Is this a frozen rope shot out of a tank's cannon?  No.

 

Is it a ridiculously good, off-platform throw?  Yup.   Across his body and across the field. 

 

 

 

The issue is that Luck can't make every throw yet. 

 

He will be fine just needs more game time exp. 

[NewColtsFan]

19 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

  Ran across this, this morning. Maybe things aren’t as bad as they seem. Hopefully, we’ll see progress throughout the year.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-colts-andrew-luck-shoulder-injury-deep-passes-video/amp

 

I appreciate the link....   but my concerns are much more than just his arm, which I think is still a fraction of what it once was.     I'd describe it as serviceable now,  but nothing special.

 

My concerns are over what he sees,  how he reacts...   his decisions that he makes.

 

Luck had a 3rd and 5 from around Philly's 10-12 yard line.    He tried to throw...   moved around in the pocket,   could've run for the first down,  but didn't seem aware of it,  threw the pass and missed a receiver (Ebron?)  who was open for a moment,  but not when Luck threw.    I'm sure he kicked himself when he saw the film on Monday.      

 

Those kind of things concern me beyond his arm.    But the arm certainly has my attention.

 

Thanks again for the link....

 

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

I would say that there's a good chance that Luck messed his footwork up when he short-hopped that throw Hilton. I think Luck needs to get more comfortable with the receivers and maybe a little better tackle play and maybe we'll see him drive the ball a bit better.

 

Bingo!    I've been thinking about my post,  and came to that same conclusion.   Footwork could easily cause what happened on that play.

 

Thanks...    I appreciate you giving it some thought like that....

 

Always good to hear from you,  DW!       

[coltsfeva]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I appreciate the link....   but my concerns are much more than just his arm, which I think is still a fraction of what it once was.     I'd describe it as serviceable now,  but nothing special.

 

My concerns are over what he sees,  how he reacts...   his decisions that he makes.

 

Luck had a 3rd and 5 from around Philly's 10-12 yard line.    He tried to throw...   moved around in the pocket,   could've run for the first down,  but didn't seem aware of it,  threw the pass and missed a receiver (Ebron?)  who was open for a moment,  but not when Luck threw.    I'm sure he kicked himself when he saw the film on Monday.      

 

Those kind of things concern me beyond his arm.    But the arm certainly has my attention.

 

Thanks again for the link....

 

  Yeah, when that happened, I’m yelling “RUN” !  I was frustrated he didn’t see what would have been an easy first down. But I think that kind of thing can be corrected. When we say somebody’s rusty, we usually think in physical terms but a player can have mental rust as well. It may be beneficial in the long run if he takes it as a “lesson learned”. 

    Reich kind of disputed Luck’s arm strength, saying he’s made every kind of throw needed to, since Reich has been there (except for a Hail Mary).

https://www.colts.com/news/colts-want-to-take-more-shots-down-field-but-will-remain-decisive

 

   My eyes tell me there were some throws that didn’t have zip. I would love to see him put everybody’s mind to rest, this week and as the season progresses 

  

     

      

[Lawrence Owen]

I also think a lot of Luck's problem isn't that he can not make zip throws, it is that he's choosing not to.  He is trying to throw over defenders, and drop into a receivers hands, all the time trying to remember to use his legs and body weight now on the power part of the throw.  Until he does not have to think about it, and it just becomes natural, he's going to have bad throws.

But here is something i want to know, Has He EVER thrown a ball 60 yards in the air? 55? I don't remember 1 going that far from Luck,...ever.A LOT of 31-40 yard 'in air' passes,...But not any i can think of past 55.  And Most of his passes have been ALL arm and shoulder in the past. (which is why he was SO DARN good throwing on the run, cross-body, to the other side of the field.  This is something you won't see much of anymore.  Like in the video,..he was moving to his right 'albeit slightly' throwing ALL arm and shoulder, cross body to the other side of the field, with a fair amount of power.  He can do it,...but his trainers are trying to beat into him to stop, square-up, and use your body weight and legs/hips to put power into the ball.  This takes a little more time to accomplish than just slinging it.  

If Reich still wants the ball out quickly, This means he has to make his decisions faster.  Which mean less time for a receiver to get open.  so if these throws are shorter,..they are more contested.  Pick your poison.  you want a shorter, more contested pass, with less chance of Luck getting crushed? Or have Luck hold it a little longer, let receivers complete routes to get open and leave Luck out with a chance to get mauled?  You can not have it both ways.  This was the issue (but opposite side) 2 years ago when Luck was throwing deeper to open receivers,..but taking shot after shot doing it.

[dw49]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Bingo!    I've been thinking about my post,  and came to that same conclusion.   Footwork could easily cause what happened on that play.

 

Thanks...    I appreciate you giving it some thought like that....

 

Always good to hear from you,  DW!       

 

And good to hear from you also.