Ryan Grigson complaints (merge)

[throwing BBZ]

17 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

But they are not missing their entire secondary.. just saying.

 

  ______ ___ we had our Entire starting safety tandem just yesterday!!  Pay attention!

[IinD]

Grigs scares me in the sense he seems to suck at drafting pass rush. We literally have nothing. A 35 yo pass rusher as the main guy wasn't a smart plan.

[bababooey]

We saw last year how good the team could have been when healthy. We have not had a consistently (mostly) healthy team since our AFCCG run. Irsay saw how last year went because of Andrew's injury, and knows how good it could have went despite the flaws if Luck was healthy. Grigson and Chuck had that all day meeting on black Monday and knew they have to get younger and have to get better in the trenches, which they did.

 

Of course the injury bug came back to bite. Not on the coaches but the coaches are not without fault (for example leaving Reitz on an island with Miller at the end of the game yesterday). Last year was the season from hell with Luck out and questions regarding Pagano's future because of the high expectations. Conflicting reports of tensions. It was hell. Irsay extended them (who knows if he will keep them) to get that bad distraction away from the locker room.

[Bluefire4]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  ______ ___ we had our Entire starting safety tandem just yesterday!!  Pay attention!

Ha. Yeah for three quarters.

[pizzaman67]

17 hours ago, BOTT said:

Lol.  Peyton could carry a team of misfits to wins, but couldn't win a playoff game for 6 years.  Delusional. You should stick to pizza.

yeah  his last few years he did it with mirrors. if you think they were good teams you don't know a thing about football

[21isSuperman]

8 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

I agree.

But unfortunately he's not that kind of person. He doesn't even have a smart phone for fear he might say something that someone won't like on social media.

Not a good idea.  Not only will it not help anything if he vents to the media, but I have heard from other players that Luck isn't all Mr. Nice Guy.  When it comes to games and practice, he'll get in a guy's face and tell him what to do if need be.  With that said, it's never a good idea to yell at your coach, GM , or owner of the franchise.

[mahagga73]

18 hours ago, The Old Crow said:

I agree Pagano is the lesser of the two problems. The good news is you have a franchise QB, and some decent receivers. 

 

Grigson's resume seems a bit lacking to me for an NFL GM. He is pretty young at 44, and his main claim to fame , with the exception of Luck's first year, is as a scout with some successful organizations. When he was hired as Director of Player Personnel for the Eagles 2010-2012, the team went from 10-6, to 8-8, to 4-12 with many of his players. Further examination of the resume shows a lot of Canadian and Arena League accomplishments. It's fair to say he was a pretty good scout, but not sure he had the top qualifications to be a GM when he did. 

And you will notice the pattern of the Eagles record is about the same as the Colts. 

[The Old Crow]

3 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

And you will notice the pattern of the Eagles record is about the same as the Colts. 

 

Hopefully, you guys can overcome the 0-2 start. That aspect would concern me also about the GM and the coach. 

[jet1968]

On 9/18/2016 at 6:52 PM, LJpalmbeacher said:

Similar to Johnny Manzei.

Fly to Daytona Beach and get a tattoo?

[ColtfreakDVA]

Wow, you know its going bad when 2 out of 3 pinned topics and about firing someone.

 

Can understand it but still wow.

[Superman]

I wasn't gonna post in this thread because I hate these threads, and because whenever I do I'm accused of being a Grigson/Pagano whoever apologist, but here goes...

 

I didn't want it to be true, but the fact is Irsay hit the reset button this offseason. Instead of a big leadership change, he mandated changes in assistant staff and in approach. We'll see about the new assistant coaches, but that change is obviously expected to have positive results, from Irsay's perspective.

 

The less obvious changes probably have to do with personnel acquisition. There may be a diversion in 2017 since there will be a bunch of cap space, but overall, this team will be built through the draft, with tight free agency moves.

 

So look at the roster after 2015. Being objective, they went into the offseason needing help on both sides of the ball -- multiple OL, RB, TE, DL, CB, ILB, S and pass rusher. You can't fill all those holes in one offseason without going on a spending spree. They couldn't go on a spending spree due to limited cap space and significant cash considerations associated with Luck's new deal. So the roster still has holes. Again, being objective, this team isn't a contender in 2016. I think we all new that before the season started. With good QBing and decent support, maybe something special can happen, but realistically, the Colts aren't as good as the top teams in the league -- Pats, Cardinals, Broncos, Panthers, Steelers, etc. 

 

The good news -- and this is premature because we're only 2 games in -- is that the OL has been sufficiently addressed. Maybe there aren't great players at every position, but there are future options in Haeg and Clark, and Kelly obviously looks good. They also added a promising safety in TJ Green, and the TE position looks okay also. 

 

There's still lots of work to do on the defense. I'm not sure Grigson is the right guy to make it work, and I'm not sure Pagano and Monachino are the right guys to coach it up. We'll see over the next couple seasons.

 

This is all a long-winded way of saying that I don't think Irsay is looking at this as being Year 5 of a build. I think he gave Grigson and Pagano the opportunity for a do-over, either because he believes in them (possible, they're both good people who have some positive traits and have done good things for the Colts) or because he didn't think the available options were any better (probable, and it's probably a combination of both of these factors). I don't think he gave them a mandate to go out and build a Super Bowl team right away. I think he recognized that the roster was at least a couple seasons away, so he gave them a mandate to protect Luck above all else, and to keep trying to build a balanced team.

 

I know some think the Colts could have gone on a spree and added a bunch of playmakers in the offseason. That's not realistic, for a lot of reasons. End of the day, the team is still at least another offseason away, maybe two. 

 

Fingers crossed in hopes that Grigson is the right guy to add the pieces needed. More fingers crossed that Pagano can maximize the pieces Grigson adds. Borrowed fingers crossed that the OL does a good job of protecting Luck.

 

There aren't enough fingers in the world to hope that this fan base can hold it together for another couple seasons... 

[southwest1]

On September 18, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Dustin said:

I think if the Colts go 6-10 then they'd both be canned. I could see Irsay giving them another year to waste if they do any better than that.

The thing about owners is that their ego plays a huge role too. Cutting them loose too early would force Jimmy to admit that he guessed wrong. Plus, Pagano made a number of sideline coaching changes, which buys Chuck a longer leash.

 

No change is imminent until Jimmy gives both his GM & HC  his "vote of confidence" dreaded kiss of death proclamation. 

[southwest1]

On September 18, 2016 at 9:34 PM, indyagent17 said:

The scariest part is that this is Luck's prime time of his career and if things go the way they look we may have wasted the career of Luck. 

 

Say what you want to about him and yes the Pick 6 was his fault, the early bad passes were his fault but he IS our franchise QB. 

 

I am willing to give a pass on the defense and they only gave up 16 points to Denver at home. The offense was flat in the first half and we should have had a lead. 

 

I am so mad at the brain truss of this team its maddening but we need to get better fast and being several games under .500 at the midway point will be nearly impossible to overcome.

 

This team is snake bitten and we need to man up and play because this season is on the line right now

Regarding what I bolded in your 1st sentence, I sympathize from an injury & hit perspective on Luck ever since Luck was drafted in 2012 IA17. However, it's a little too soon to even project that Andrew's career might even be squandered.

 

I know your heart is in the right place, but you need to give our OC, DC, & OL coach about 10 weeks before we can even ascertain what strides we have made or whether we have fallen short of under this currently constructed regime. 

[deedub75]

On September 18, 2016 at 10:44 PM, 21isSuperman said:

I think 7-9 is their minimum.  7 wins or more and I think they are retained, 6 wins or less and they're gone.

 

You really think so?  I'm thinking that Irsay is already regretting extending Grigson and Pagano.  This team is poorly built and there is not quick fix.  Irsay did get his wish about keeping continuity though.  

[husker61]

he has had 5 drafts, so how has he done? luck was a no brainer that every gm would have taken first. other than that, ty is the only real impact player he has drafted!! everyone still think bill polian was that bad.

[HeSoColt]

I will probably get flamed for this... but I wonder if TY is a "real impact player".

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 minutes ago, HeSoColt said:

I will probably get flamed for this... but I wonder if TY is a "real impact player".

I agree, he is just average and the colts overpaid him, for all his so called speed he cant get open

[husker61]

colt receivers have had a hard time getting open since bruce arians left. maybe its not all the receivers fault.

[WarGhost21]

9 minutes ago, HeSoColt said:

I will probably get flamed for this... but I wonder if TY is a "real impact player".

As much as I want to disagree, I can't. TY is a great player, with 3 straight 1000 yard seasons, but thats mainly due to volume and some deep bombs. I feel that the best receiver on the team in the long run will be first-rounder Philip Dorsett. He was a first round talent for a reason, yet he's buried on the depth chart because of his lack of experience.

[OLD FAN MAN]

13 minutes ago, husker61 said:

colt receivers have had a hard time getting open since bruce arians left. maybe its not all the receivers fault.

could be coaching

[Cynjin]

There is already a thread for Grigson complaints.  It's pinned, it is not hard to find.

[myic90]

hits (would start for other teams):

ty hilton

dwayne allen

henry anderson

moncrief

mewhort

 

jury is out on:

kelly

geathers

green

dorsett

Good

clark

ridgeway

morrison

haeg

 

Avg. Starters:

Parry

Fleener

thornton

 

 

Misses (only counting 1st 5 rounds, anything after is a bonus):

d'joun smith

werner

holmes

hughes

chapman

richardson (I know, but cost a 1st rounder so.)

 

 

A good gm bats just above .500 in the drafts. Looking at the above, grigson is around the mark.

 

I think we can say that grigson has improved in his draft steadily since 2014. 2012 was a good year as well. 

A lot of names in the jury list could get a bump up to hits if they develop.

 

I think he's done a good job.

[Coffeedrinker]

TY is an impact player.  When opposing teams change their defensive scheme to account for a player then he is an impact player.

 

And i'm not a huge fan of Grigson's but you do have to wait a couple of years to determine impact players.  I would list Kelly, Green, Anderson and potential impact players from the last couple of drafts.

[JColts72]

3 hours ago, deedub75 said:

 

You really think so?  I'm thinking that Irsay is already regretting extending Grigson and Pagano.  This team is poorly built and there is not quick fix.  Irsay did get his wish about keeping continuity though.  

This team is put together so poorly on both sides of the ball. Luck will be the new Archie Manning of getting pummeled and running for his life every week. What's' next Who Dat Colts bags?

[JColts72]

9 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Regarding what I bolded in your 1st sentence, I sympathize from an injury & hit perspective on Luck ever since Luck was drafted in 2012 IA17. However, it's a little too soon to even project that Andrew's career might even be squandered.

 

I know your heart is in the right place, but you need to give our OC, DC, & OL coach about 10 weeks before we can even ascertain what strides we have made or whether we have fallen short of under this currently constructed regime. 

10 weeks? how about past 4 years?

[JColts72]

9 hours ago, southwest1 said:

The thing about owners is that their ego plays a huge role too. Cutting them loose too early would force Jimmy to admit that he guessed wrong. Plus, Pagano made a number of sideline coaching changes, which buys Chuck a longer leash.

 

No change is imminent until Jimmy gives both his GM & HC  his "vote of confidence" dreaded kiss of death proclamation. 

This team can go winless and both Ryan and Chuck will remain. need a kick a coach. He's coaching Michigan though.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

He smells of Elderberries 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

On September 18, 2016 at 9:17 PM, CodeMaster said:

Serious question,  I'm going to post this in the Pagano thread as well.  I firmly believe that the leadership of this team is indifferent towards winning or lack the talent and skill to create or lead a great team.  I honestly do not know which it is and I think it is almost impossible to figure out.  I just feel that the team is headed in the wrong direction and therefore it is a leadership issue.  Regardless, why do you think Grigson is to blame, why not Pagano or why not only Pagano?

 

I'm also interested regarding your thoughts on Irsay, I'm aware there is nothing we can do to hold the owner accountable except to stop being fans of the team but do you feel he is indifferent towards winning? If not how do you explain the four year contract extension?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at my earlier post, after yours. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Cynjin said:

There is already a thread for Grigson complaints.  It's pinned, it is not hard to find.

 

Merging.

[SilentHill]

19 hours ago, Superman said:

I wasn't gonna post in this thread because I hate these threads, and because whenever I do I'm accused of being a Grigson/Pagano whoever apologist, but here goes...

 

I didn't want it to be true, but the fact is Irsay hit the reset button this offseason. Instead of a big leadership change, he mandated changes in assistant staff and in approach. We'll see about the new assistant coaches, but that change is obviously expected to have positive results, from Irsay's perspective.

 

The less obvious changes probably have to do with personnel acquisition. There may be a diversion in 2017 since there will be a bunch of cap space, but overall, this team will be built through the draft, with tight free agency moves.

 

So look at the roster after 2015. Being objective, they went into the offseason needing help on both sides of the ball -- multiple OL, RB, TE, DL, CB, ILB, S and pass rusher. You can't fill all those holes in one offseason without going on a spending spree. They couldn't go on a spending spree due to limited cap space and significant cash considerations associated with Luck's new deal. So the roster still has holes. Again, being objective, this team isn't a contender in 2016. I think we all new that before the season started. With good QBing and decent support, maybe something special can happen, but realistically, the Colts aren't as good as the top teams in the league -- Pats, Cardinals, Broncos, Panthers, Steelers, etc. 

 

The good news -- and this is premature because we're only 2 games in -- is that the OL has been sufficiently addressed. Maybe there aren't great players at every position, but there are future options in Haeg and Clark, and Kelly obviously looks good. They also added a promising safety in TJ Green, and the TE position looks okay also. 

 

There's still lots of work to do on the defense. I'm not sure Grigson is the right guy to make it work, and I'm not sure Pagano and Monachino are the right guys to coach it up. We'll see over the next couple seasons.

 

This is all a long-winded way of saying that I don't think Irsay is looking at this as being Year 5 of a build. I think he gave Grigson and Pagano the opportunity for a do-over, either because he believes in them (possible, they're both good people who have some positive traits and have done good things for the Colts) or because he didn't think the available options were any better (probable, and it's probably a combination of both of these factors). I don't think he gave them a mandate to go out and build a Super Bowl team right away. I think he recognized that the roster was at least a couple seasons away, so he gave them a mandate to protect Luck above all else, and to keep trying to build a balanced team.

 

I know some think the Colts could have gone on a spree and added a bunch of playmakers in the offseason. That's not realistic, for a lot of reasons. End of the day, the team is still at least another offseason away, maybe two. 

 

Fingers crossed in hopes that Grigson is the right guy to add the pieces needed. More fingers crossed that Pagano can maximize the pieces Grigson adds. Borrowed fingers crossed that the OL does a good job of protecting Luck.

 

There aren't enough fingers in the world to hope that this fan base can hold it together for another couple seasons... 

 

This post is the sad truth.

 

It's amazing that we are wasting years of Luck's prime on giving people second chances. Mind boggling really, I agree that there weren't any really good options available for GM, and for a head coach, Sean Payton I think would have been a minor upgrade, Jim Harbaugh was the only one worth resetting the coaching staff for, and that call was probably made, and rejected.

 

I think the reset's on the coordinators and assistants were a thing of beauty. I believe in Chud and I believe in Monachino. What I don't believe in is the past Colts culture, I was not one bit surprised to hear when Reggie quit the patriots that the atmosphere in their camp was night and day to ours. Supposedly Pagano has become more "do your job" and less "Hey let's have fun" It's hard to say if this is taking shape or not, because you know our entire team is injured, I'd really like to see how some of this talent that has been sub-par to this point responds to a different atmosphere and possibly becomes who we though they were.

[Superman]

56 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

It's amazing that we are wasting years of Luck's prime on giving people second chances.

 

I think that's a shortsighted and impatient viewpoint, but it is a popular one. It takes time to build a contender, especially if you want to do it right. And whether it's a second chance for the Grigson/Pagano duo or a first chance for another group, the roster would still have a bunch of holes this year. We can point to a couple moves that they could have made -- Freeman instead of Jackson, maybe go after a pass rusher or work a trade -- but I don't think there was anything anyone could have done this offseason to significantly change the trajectory of the franchise this year. 

 

Build it right. Draft well, coach up the young guys, be smart in free agency. I don't think you can do that effectively if you tell the leadership 'you have one year to get it right,' so Irsay committed to his guys. But they know they got a reprieve, and they know they better make the most of it. Hopefully they can.

[gacoop1]

What happens when the team goes 0-4?  Grigs/Pags still laughing to the bank.  Let's face it, this organization will make money, win or lose.  Obviously, they don't care about the fans no matter what band aid they use to cover their tracts....The GM and HC aren't knowledgeable enough to come up with a formula to be a contender..So fellow fans no matter how much frustrations we endure through these postings, we might as well face it.  Nothing is going to change.

[gacoop1]

Fire Grigson/Pagano, both worthless - team is heading way down South......You want an example of a success story.  Look at Philadelphia, Rookie QB and Rookie coach....UNDEFEATED!!!!

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

3 hours ago, gacoop1 said:

Fire Grigson/Pagano, both worthless - team is heading way down South......You want an example of a success story.  Look at Philadelphia, Rookie QB and Rookie coach....UNDEFEATED!!!!

 

This must be the year of the rookie ,, Rookie   2 games into the season there undefeated     the 1972 Miami Dolphins are most likely freaking out .. 

[Flash]

What if Grigson was fired last year? We would be a team left with holes to fill at OL, and the defensive secondary, and a few other spots, but not as pressing.

 

Now let's imagine that a new GM was hired and that new GM drafted Ryan Kelley, T.J. Green, Hassan Ridgeway, and three other O-Linemen to protect Luck, and added Cromartie and Patrick Robinson to the secondary. We would mostly be praising this new GM and saying something like...'We finally got a GM that knows what he's doing."

[21isSuperman]

39 minutes ago, Flash said:

What if Grigson was fired last year? We would be a team left with holes to fill at OL, and the defensive secondary, and a few other spots, but not as pressing.

 

Now let's imagine that a new GM was hired and that new GM drafted Ryan Kelley, T.J. Green, Hassan Ridgeway, and three other O-Linemen to protect Luck, and added Cromartie and Patrick Robinson to the secondary. We would mostly be praising this new GM and saying something like...'We finally got a GM that knows what he's doing."

People generally liked what Grigson did this past offseason.  The difference in your scenario is that both guys would have had a good 2016 offseason, but Grigson would also have an awful 2013 offseason to his belt and several other mistakes.  The new GM would have a blank slate and have one good offseason under his belt.

[Flash]

1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

People generally liked what Grigson did this past offseason.  The difference in your scenario is that both guys would have had a good 2016 offseason, but Grigson would also have an awful 2013 offseason to his belt and several other mistakes.  The new GM would have a blank slate and have one good offseason under his belt.

Understood and agreed. I would also like to mention that if the new GM were the GM for any other team in the NFL during the 2013 season, he too would've had an awful draft under his belt. It was a historically bad draft.

 

I think the point I was trying to make is that Grigson has been afforded a new opportunity. He has made the best of that opportunity. Let's hope it continues.

 

Let's also hope that people can see past the injuries -- that's not Grigson fault, and before people claim we don't have sufficient back up, I would argue that we do. We've been in both games with a chance to win.

[21isSuperman]

4 hours ago, Flash said:

Understood and agreed. I would also like to mention that if the new GM were the GM for any other team in the NFL during the 2013 season, he too would've had an awful draft under his belt. It was a historically bad draft.

 

I think the point I was trying to make is that Grigson has been afforded a new opportunity. He has made the best of that opportunity. Let's hope it continues.

 

Let's also hope that people can see past the injuries -- that's not Grigson fault, and before people claim we don't have sufficient back up, I would argue that we do. We've been in both games with a chance to win.

Does he deserve it though?  I think that's why many people are upset.  He was gifted Andrew Luck and had his chance to turn this team into a perennial contender, but we're currently sitting at the bottom of the division

[cbear]

Really, with this banged up team and going up against Denver at their place and they want to fire everybody already??

 

Thanks Mods for pinning these two threads.  At least it will keep certain fan's heads from exploding.

 

Mine too as long as I stay out of here!  

 

.......yes, I had to look......

[Superman]

5 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

The new GM would have a blank slate and have one good offseason under his belt.

 

The new GM would be held in the same regard as Ryan Grigson four years ago.