Are We Really A 2-14 Team That Needs All This Turnover?

[Coltsagent]

The blackboard has darn near been wiped clean. Are we really what our record says we are? I just worry about knee jerk reactions. I remember Dungy giving an interview wherein he was reflecting back upon his time here and he talked about how after losing again in the playoffs after multiple seasons he THEN understood what this team, this City had been going thru for years. I am afraid we are going to lose our perspective.

[ColtJ82]

I agree with you on this. We are a 2-14 team that very well could have been 12-4 in the coming year if Manning is healthy. IMO, Irsay was probably ready for a paradigm shift in the organization and just used this season as the springboard. I wish these changes could have taken place earlier in Peyton's career, but those are a lot of wheels to set in motion. The first step was obviously sending the Polians packing.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

I think it had become stagnant honestly. The D has been slowly getting worse, not necessarily statistically, but they just haven't been stopping people from driving down the field and chewing up clock. The special teams had been ignored. And I would even say that the offense was starting to get stale. The one thing that kept the offense effective was Manning's ability to recognize coverage and exploit it. But he hasn't been given protection since 2006. He's been harassed by pass rushers and our running backs have been smothered. And of course, we also saw the problem at the backup QB position.

I don't think there needed to be a complete overhaul, but these things should have been dealt with all along the way. Unfortunately, it took a 2-14 season to act as a catalyst for change and improvement. Had Polian addressed these issues when they started, he'd probably still have a job. Instead, we have a young new GM who wants to put his stamp on the organization and he is going to make changes.

[shakedownstreet]

something was wrong with the culture on west 56th street. jim irsay tweeting news before caldwell knew about it etc etc

it probably had to do with chris polian, but we will never know

[deedub75]

No way were a 12-4 team even with Manning. The Polians should have been reeled in last season after 10-6 last season.

[Indeee]

When you sit down and think about it from a football perspective this is the perfect time to blow this team up. we are still one of the youngest teams in NFL right now, however starting with this year and moving into next couple years we are going to lose alot of key Colts we have come to know and love via age or free agency. The true genius in Irsay making these moves goes a little deeper. Look at our division. Every team other than the Texans are in a rebuild. The texans have maybe 5 good years left with who they have so the colts in year 2 or 3 from now will be back in position to make a push at them as well as the league. The titans now as we speak are second but developing a young QB as well and the Jags, well they are the jags. This is strategically perfect IMO.

[Jaric]

What you're seeing is a shift in overall philosophy.

Think of it like switching from a 3-4 to tampa 2. (That's just an example, I'm not saying we're going to be a 3-4 team next year) Some guys aren't going to fit in the new direction. I think that's all we're seeing.

[ColtJ82]

I think it had become stagnant honestly. The D has been slowly getting worse, not necessarily statistically, but they just haven't been stopping people from driving down the field and chewing up clock. The special teams had been ignored. And I would even say that the offense was starting to get stale. The one thing that kept the offense effective was Manning's ability to recognize coverage and exploit it. But he hasn't been given protection since 2006. He's been harassed by pass rushers and our running backs have been smothered. And of course, we also saw the problem at the backup QB position.

I don't think there needed to be a complete overhaul, but these things should have been dealt with all along the way. Unfortunately, it took a 2-14 season to act as a catalyst for change and improvement. Had Polian addressed these issues when they started, he'd probably still have a job. Instead, we have a young new GM who wants to put his stamp on the organization and he is going to make changes.

I don't know that I have ever agreed with 2 quotes in the same thread on this board before. It really had become stagnant. Remember how exciting the offense used to be when we constantly went down the field and hit the big play. The offense had become so grind it out. The Def. and Special Teams obviously speak for themselves.

[Fatboyslim11]

The blackboard has darn near been wiped clean. Are we really what our record says we are? I just worry about knee jerk reactions. I remember Dungy giving an interview wherein he was reflecting back upon his time here and he talked about how after losing again in the playoffs after multiple seasons he THEN understood what this team, this City had been going thru for years. I am afraid we are going to lose our perspective.

We were what we were a 2-14 team and the chances of us getting better in the short term with the current players and former GM and coaching staff was minimal. In the NFL you either get better or you get worse. We were clearly getting worse and it was time for major changes.

[oldunclemark]

What you're seeing is a shift in overall philosophy.

Think of it like switching from a 3-4 to tampa 2. (That's just an example, I'm not saying we're going to be a 3-4 team next year) Some guys aren't going to fit in the new direction. I think that's all we're seeing.

But definite change now...

The defense will not remain the same and that's something I think we all wanted....

...and the offense will underdgo some change (2 back sets...more motion) even if Manning returns.

..al;though we're gaerde to play most of our game sindoors and it woild be foolish to make major changes...

[oldunclemark]

The blackboard has darn near been wiped clean. Are we really what our record says we are? I just worry about knee jerk reactions. I remember Dungy giving an interview wherein he was reflecting back upon his time here and he talked about how after losing again in the playoffs after multiple seasons he THEN understood what this team, this City had been going thru for years. I am afraid we are going to lose our perspective.

I think its an overreaction but Irsay cleaned house before and it worked...

...He keeps saying he has a vision...of an exciting future....

[Zebra3]

I think it was time for a change. To me, we felt like we had been coasting since the SB win, which is fine, but won't get you another SB. The coaching and front office are the most obvious locations to look for the reasons we coasted for so long. I don't dislike Jim caaldwell at all, and I think he is a good coach, but I do think that it was time for some major changes. Apart from anything else, it's about the right time because it puts a new GM in place and coach, to start the build process now, and begin succession planning for Peyton's eventual departure from the game (whenever that is).

[Betty27_1]

I think we are. Something needs to be done in the off season. After this much success 2-14 just isn't acceptable. I could of bought them being 6-10 or 7-9 or even 8-8, but to go 0-13 until the last few games? Something needs to be done this off season.

[Coffeedrinker]

The blackboard has darn near been wiped clean. Are we really what our record says we are? I just worry about knee jerk reactions. I remember Dungy giving an interview wherein he was reflecting back upon his time here and he talked about how after losing again in the playoffs after multiple seasons he THEN understood what this team, this City had been going thru for years. I am afraid we are going to lose our perspective.

No the Colts are not a 2-14 team. But they also were not/are not a team that can get a winning record without very good to great QB play. Which is why the time for change is now.

Let's assume Manning comes back healthy, let's also assume that Grigson looks at the line with AC, Ijalana, Pollack and realizes that one guard is needed now and perhaps another in a year or two. So you have a healthy manning and a young, potentially very good oline. That puts you in a situation where you can take 2-4 years to rebuild the team and still be a winning franchise while he's under contract

If Manning is not healthy well you have to rebuild anyways.

[cmgww]

Wait a second...in the midst of 0-13 darn near this entire board wanted EVERYONE short of Manning gone. Now we have a thread questioning the overhaul? Listen...it is well past time to move on. Polians ran off some pretty good scouts and coaches and it started to show last season. Even in SB 44 it was evident the Colts, who were pretty decent favorites going in, were outcoached. I think Mannings loss this past season brought to light flaws that have been covered up by him for several seasons. I think Irsay saw the franchise starting to go downhill and is trying to cut if off and redo it all for the long term future of the franchise. Hopefully that includes a healthy Manning transitioning to Luck, but more and more that doesnt look to be the case. We might have to take a few down years. It has happened Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and other top tier franchises...Just a few years back GB missed the playoffs. Only NE has bucked the trend and until last week they hadnt won a playoff game since 2007.

So to all thosr that wanted heads to roll...well you got it.

[oldunclemark]

Everbody wants change but too much change makes us the Colts of the mid-90s

..or the Vikings and Browns of today...

lets not push Manning and the old guard (Saturday, Brackett, Freeney) out the door

[Superman]

Everbody wants change but too much change makes us the Colts of the mid-90s

..or the Vikings and Browns of today...

lets not push Manning and the old guard (Saturday, Brackett, Freeney) out the door

People have been complaining about Polian for at least the past three years. Been complaining about Caldwell since the day he was hired. Complained about everything that happened in the Super Bowl. Complained all through 2010, even though we won 10 games. Complained all offseason. We go 2-14, and Irsay cleans house, and now it's too much change?

I don't know what people want. I understand being nervous, and hoping we get the right people in place. We won't know for a couple years whether the right decisions were made, but something had to happen. It's time to move forward.

[pacolts56]

Everbody wants change but too much change makes us the Colts of the mid-90s

..or the Vikings and Browns of today...

lets not push Manning and the old guard (Saturday, Brackett, Freeney) out the door

I definitely agree guys like Mathis, Dallas Clark and as many cap-friendly quality vets should be kept as possible.

But between Peyton's injury and the very short timeline Irsay and Grigson have for a decision on him...and the salary/cap hit involved....it kind of paints us into nearly an "all or nothing" situation.

Irsay can't be expected to risk $28 mil in March if Peyton's health doesn't give him very high confidence he'll be back to form. And if the medical picture is still muddy....that has a domino effect on alot of other veterans.

I hope I'm wrong....but everytime a shoe drops these days it looks like we're headed for a post-Peyton rebuild.

[Smitto]

The colts would be 12-4 with manning next year, and even with all this change the colts would still be 12-4... But the question is would the outcome be the same in the playoffs 1 and done... i think Irsay got tired of the no defense thing... which is why he said they are pushing to be more balanced on defense especially in the salary.

When i hear irsay talking about the salary and when i hear reports that peyton WILL NOT reconstruct his contract.... then something has to give.

With that said yes this change is needed because defense wins championships.

[Buck Showalter]

I was surprised Teerlink got the axe, but I expected & welcome the change...

[oldunclemark]

I definitely agree guys like Mathis, Dallas Clark and as many cap-friendly quality vets should be kept as possible.

But between Peyton's injury and the very short timeline Irsay and Grigson have for a decision on him...and the salary/cap hit involved....it kind of paints us into nearly an "all or nothing" situation.

Irsay can't be expected to risk $28 mil in March if Peyton's health doesn't give him very high confidence he'll be back to form. And if the medical picture is still muddy....that has a domino effect on alot of other veterans.

I hope I'm wrong....but everytime a shoe drops these days it looks like we're headed for a post-Peyton rebuild.

I have to admit..that's how I'm feeling...and I fear a rebuild means a series of 4-12s and 6-10s...

..unless Andrew Luck is one of the greatest players of all time.

[JColts72]

All d coaches out means no cover 2

[shakedownstreet]

All d coaches out means no cover 2

i don't know about that. you scheme to your talent. it just depends on what the roster looks like

[Superman]

Every team uses Cover 2. It's just a coverage. I'm sure we won't use soft zone coverage nearly as much, but Cover 2 ain't goin' nowhere. Matter of fact, Man Cover 2 is the most fundamentally sound defense you can play in a passing league. Just hope you have the front four to generate a consistent pass rush.

[04DarkShadowGT]

I think the big reason we are seeing so much change is that Irsay was not happy with Chris Polian and he knew Bill was paving the way for that transition. Irsay used the 2-14 season as a reason to do it now. He had fan support in the matter, I am not sure I agree with changing everything so quickly, it almost seems to me as Indy is wanting to move on totally. If you really wanted Peyton for another 2-3 years you keep something so he is familiar with.

Its almost like they are doign a total reboot from top to bottom. We will see how it turns out.

[Jay305]

regardless of the record of the team we needed this

[shakedownstreet]

Its almost like they are doign a total reboot from top to bottom. We will see how it turns out.

sometimes it's good to reformat the harddrive

[LightninMax]

I think the big reason we are seeing so much change is that Irsay was not happy with Chris Polian and he knew Bill was paving the way for that transition. Irsay used the 2-14 season as a reason to do it now. He had fan support in the matter, I am not sure I agree with changing everything so quickly, it almost seems to me as Indy is wanting to move on totally. If you really wanted Peyton for another 2-3 years you keep something so he is familiar with.

Its almost like they are doign a total reboot from top to bottom. We will see how it turns out.

I agree with the Polian thing. Bill had one foot in retirement and got forced back in the game last year with Peyton going down. Irsay saw that the man at the top has to be 100% committed and pulled the trigger. Likewise, new GM wants to put together his own team.

Peyton doesn't have to be familiar with anyone but his receivers, he'll handle change better than anyone. Other familiarity(even with a new center if necessary) will just be part of the game to him. It's not a total reboot, more of a cold start.

[tonychen]

With Peyton retiring very soon, or maybe already retired, of course the team needs an entire change of direction. The old system worked only because Peyton was playing. Now it is time to prepare for the life after him, even if he plays again for another 2-3 years it only means a little more time for the changes.

[unitaswestand]

I fully expected the Colts to be a playoff team this year if Peyton had played. As someone pointed out, this team wasn't that different than the Super Bowl team. I think the running attack got better. Defense looked bad, but they were on the field so much it really showed.

I do think this season was a blessing. It really showed to everyone how flawed the Colts makeup is. They are not balanced, have had too many injuries for too long, and too much reliance on one player. So I think Irsay saw an opportunity to change that direction and try to get them more like a 49er type team that is very balanced.

I think the Colts will be in the playoffs next year if Manning is healthy, because he shows that as long as he is back there, they can compete with anyone.

[Restored]

I fully expected the Colts to be a playoff team this year if Peyton had played. As someone pointed out, this team wasn't that different than the Super Bowl team. I think the running attack got better. Defense looked bad, but they were on the field so much it really showed.

I do think this season was a blessing. It really showed to everyone how flawed the Colts makeup is. They are not balanced, have had too many injuries for too long, and too much reliance on one player. So I think Irsay saw an opportunity to change that direction and try to get them more like a 49er type team that is very balanced.

I think the Colts will be in the playoffs next year if Manning is healthy, because he shows that as long as he is back there, they can compete with anyone.

+1 reputation points

[The Fish]

If it was necessary is some what debatable, but your getting the "big change" all at once, regardless of what you think about it.

[Tony Sullivan]

When Brady went down the Pats still put up 9 or 10 wins I believe. I think that's what we're trying to do with our shakeup. Not have it all rely on one player.

[ColtsPacersfan]

Changed was needed a long time ago. We just have to sit tight and see how everything pans out. Sometimes a shakedown is a good thing. We shall see! It might take us a year or two to see how the new rebuilding worked or might not or it might work this season. But it was long overdue. I am glad to see the changes. I think we will be fine. It might be bumpy but in the long run, I think we will be fine.

[GrizzColt]

We are OLD! We have got to be one of the oldest team/GM/coach combinations the NFL has had since the advent of free agency. Before FA, you had all of those dynasties, but since then who has been together longer than us? Heck, we were old several years ago. Marvin Harrison has already retired. Tom Moore and Howard Mudd are older than dirt. Manning is old. Remember when Wayne was the young 2nd receiver? He is old. Saturday is thinking about retirement. Polian is over 70. We have to change now.

[Coltsagent]

By my count we started the season with 19 coaches and 2 GM's, we now have 6 coaches (with axes still falling) and a new GM. This is team and organization that set all kinds of records of winning for the past 10 years and you can’t simply ignore the fact that the people who were behind all this are now gone. What is this vision I keep hearing of? If there was a vision why are all of these different coaches being interviewed? Doesn't a vision mean you knew what you wanted? Is this change just for the sake of change? Why a total gut and not just some fine tunning?

[GrizzColt]

We are somewhat modelled after the Steelers organization. They don't like change either. Dungy is the one who retired. We didn't fire him. If he hadn't retired, we would have probably kept him and he would have kept his coaches together. Also, I wouldn't have been surprised if Polian retired and Irsay gave some GM power to Dungy, but alas it didn't shake down that way and we don't have anyone to take up for these coaches.

[Kurtis Patrick M]

What better time for a rebuild than after a 2 & 14 season, 1st pick & an ailing,aging Manning... Looking forward to seeing the outcome

[JWF]

There is talent on this team but there are also major holes.

It really depends on Manning's health and the progression of the younger players in a new system.

Its certainly possible in the NFL to go from worst to first but its still extremely rare.

[GoColts8818]

Look I was as big of a supporter of Bill Polian and Jim Caldwell as one was going to find. With that said I'll the first to admit I don't know what was going on inside the Colts Complex. Jim Irsay does and if he thinks this much turnover was needed I trust him. I think it's just new to us because we haven't gone threw a total makeover since really Jim Mora was hired in 1998. I mean Caldwell was hired to avoid a major turnover and Dungy changed the defense but admitted he didn't touch the offense.

Could it have been different? Sure. However, once Irsay made the choice to pull the plug on the Polians it was only a matter of time till everything else changed. It always does when you bring in a new GM.