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Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

IndyD4U

By IndyD4U
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Old Colt Practice Squad

Old Colt

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I don't see how a company can make someone turn over their personal phone....what if they wanted to search his car...his house....interview his family and friends....what if they wanted to cut open his dog to see if he swallowed the phone? At what point does personal property remain personal and how much power should your employer have in gaining access to your personal life. We see all the time that they have right to your company phone/computer etc...but if he answered their questions but refusted to turn over his personal phone...well that may still be seen as cooperating. Most people don't have a lawyer or union to protect them from their company so many would likely comply to prove their innocence....in this case Tom has the legal system to prove his and he may never have to turn over anything. I may think he had more to do with all this but the NFL could easily lose this case depending on the judge. If people must turn over their privacy to play in the league...that could be too far...and the judge may say the NFL has no right. Brady answered your questions no let him play because your proof that he did something improper is weak. Its all possible. Do I think Brady is covering up etc...sure...but that doesn't mean he won't win his appeal.

The point most miss is that the NFL did not ask for his "Phone". they asked for records of the texts and conversations, after they are reviewed by his attorney, that pertained only to this matter. they did not ask to see all, and gave his attorney's the right to determine which applied to this matter. TB's response..... was to destroy his phone.... he did turn over just the phone numbers...but no context as requested.
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Narcosys Practice Squad

Narcosys

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While I agree, I am stuck on the part about only the Commissioner has the authority to put someone on that list, wouldn't that mean he could do it without the club asking?

Not necessarily, the clubs request but only the commissioner had the authority to put/grant them on there.

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bababooey Walk On

bababooey

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@NFLCharean: Jerry Jones was asked about Kraft/Brady. He is going on and on about what a great job Roger Goodell is doing as commissioner.

@SI_DougFarrar: To be fair to Jerry Jones, he took a major cap penalty under some pretty stupid circumstances. If he's strongly endorsing Goodell, oooookay.

What do you know AM? There is another owner in the league...I am sure Mara, Irsay, Johnson, etc would agree with Jones too.

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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Didn't Brady agree to pay a fine but didn't want a suspension at all? Or am I crazy?  I thought I read that?  If that's true why would someone who is innocent want to pay a fine for something he did not do?  Just curious

If I understood things right Brady wanted to only be punished for not working with the investigation but be cleared in terms of cheating. 

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dynasty13 Walk On

dynasty13

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Can't wait for the first real game and to see how invincible the Patriots are going to be this year without Brady for the first 4 games and losing their ability to "squeeze" the football tightly to hold on to it.  How funny will/would fumble city be?!  

 

I've tried to stay away from this, with good reason...but this line and the popular sentiment about how the Patriots will now fumble a lot more stood out to me.

 

Why?

 

Because everyone is trying to make the case that since 2007 when teams were allowed to doctor footballs, the Patriots fumble rate was so low that it lends credibility to the affect of playing with a deflated football. But only the home team has the footballs before the game, right? McNally and Jastremski were only around when the games took place at Gillette...they didn't travel to away games. So looking back at the fumble numbers, shouldn't the Patriots have a heck of a lot more fumbles AWAY than they do at HOME?

 

I only ask this because when you DO look at the numbers, it's the exact opposite. It turns out they had a higher fumble rate AT Gillette Stadium than they did AWAY from Gillette Stadium, and this was true for every single season since 2005. So I don't know exactly why people are anxious to see the Patriots fumble numbers this coming season because the numbers from past seasons don't support their narrative. 

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bababooey Walk On

bababooey

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I've tried to stay away from this, with good reason...but this line and the popular sentiment about how the Patriots will now fumble a lot more stood out to me.

Why?

Because everyone is trying to make the case that since 2007 when teams were allowed to doctor footballs, the Patriots fumble rate was so low that it lends credibility to the affect of playing with a deflated football. But only the home team has the footballs before the game, right? McNally and Jastremski were only around when the games took place at Gillette...they didn't travel to away games. So looking back at the fumble numbers, shouldn't the Patriots have a heck of a lot more fumbles AWAY than they do at HOME?

I only ask this because when you DO look at the numbers, it's the exact opposite. It turns out they had a higher fumble rate AT Gillette Stadium than they did AWAY from Gillette Stadium, and this was true for every single season since 2005. So I don't know exactly why people are anxious to see the Patriots fumble numbers this coming season because the numbers from past seasons don't support their narrative.

Um they did not lose a fumble at home last year. Second or third time this has happened in the history of the game but ran about 200 extra offensive plays than the other two teams which is pretty incredible. I'm on the beach right now or I'd link the article which I did about ten times back in January. (The sharp analysis).

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Jason_ Hall of Famer

Jason_

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The point most miss is that the NFL did not ask for his "Phone". they asked for records of the texts and conversations, after they are reviewed by his attorney, that pertained only to this matter. they did not ask to see all, and gave his attorney's the right to determine which applied to this matter. TB's response..... was to destroy his phone.... he did turn over just the phone numbers...but no context as requested.

 

one correction...the point about the NFL not asking for his "phone" isn't being missed...it's being ignored :)

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ReMeDy Practice Squad

ReMeDy

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The problem that you and other Colt fans love to ignore is that the Wells Report did not prove guilt.

Whatsoever.

In fact, all it did was highlight the flaws in the attack on the Patriots.

THATS why Patriot fans, and logical spectators, still back Brady. Because there's still NO proof that he did anything wrong. Just conjecture.

I'll enjoy watching Brady miss zero games over this lame witch hunt.

 

If you're fat, can I call you the deflator? You better say yes, otherwise, Brady is guilty.

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ReMeDy Practice Squad

ReMeDy

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Question: Is there anyway for a Commissioner to vote an owner out of the league, or for the other 31 teams to vote that owner out? Robert Kraft is publicly attacking the NFL and Roger Goodell. Why can't he keep those attacks behind closed doors? To me, Kraft should be forced to sell the team and let someone else step up.

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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1.  Just wondering who is the Colts player rep if anyone knows?  That's just me being curious.

 

2.  Didn't Colts fans toss Jason Cole under the buss earlier this week over something?  I am not going to lie I don't really read or watch his work. 

 

3.  If this true, and I think it could very well be true, it will be interesting to see what the player's union does if anything. 

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Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

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So you are saying... Brady isn't a martyr and isn't doing this for all his peers and the integrity of the game?!?!?  You mean.. he is just being selfish and self centered and an adamant liar???? THE NFL PLAYERS DONT SUPPORT CHEATING?!?!?!

 

 

I need to hurry and tell AM and Vir... wait... nvm..

 

 

Lol Brady is looking so bad and the fact that some fans (who will remain nameless) have the audacity to think that the NFL is to blame and the one looking bad.  HAHAHAHA

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PeterBowman Active Roster

PeterBowman

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So you are saying... Brady isn't a martyr and isn't doing this for all his peers and the integrity of the game?!?!?  You mean.. he is just being selfish and self centered and an adamant liar???? THE NFL PLAYERS DONT SUPPORT CHEATING?!?!?!

 

 

I need to hurry and tell AM and Vir... wait... nvm..

 

 

Lol Brady is looking so bad and the fact that some fans (who will remain nameless) have the audacity to think that the NFL is to blame and the one looking bad.  HAHAHAHA

All of whom are located in a small corridor in the northeast.

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jabbanobadda Walk On

jabbanobadda

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So you are saying... Brady isn't a martyr and isn't doing this for all his peers and the integrity of the game?!?!?  You mean.. he is just being selfish and self centered and an adamant liar???? THE NFL PLAYERS DONT SUPPORT CHEATING?!?!?!

 

 

I need to hurry and tell AM and Vir... wait... nvm..

 

 

Lol Brady is looking so bad and the fact that some fans (who will remain nameless) have the audacity to think that the NFL is to blame and the one looking bad.  HAHAHAHA

What's worse is those same fans also blame the Colts! :)

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John Waylon Ring of Honor

John Waylon

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I'd like to believe that this is real. But it's hard to say.

 

 

I can't wrap my head around the defense of Brady. 

 

The NFL didn't ask for his PHONE, just the TEXTS. 

Brady has his phone destroyed amidst a time in which it, and it's contents are the subject of an official league investigation.

Brady's posse offered independently give a list of relevant numbers that Brady was in contact with during the period under investigation so the NFL could track those phones down for the content.

 

 

So many things wrong with that... If this was a criminal case, Brady would be walking away from the original charge, but would be dead to rights taking charges for destruction of evidence, and obstruction of justice.

 

These people defending Brady for his "offer" to give the league a list of numbers he was in contact with are, to put it mildly, being foolish. Are they really so naive that they think they would give the league a contact that would incriminate Brady?

 

Hell no. They would leave it out. 

 

Brady's entire defense has been based solely on him going "I'm innocent. Believe me." That's not how it works... That doesn't work in the judicial system, why in the name of god would Brady and his band of *s think it would suffice here? 

 

It's a coverup, plain and simple. 

 

But it's not a deflategate coverup. No, they are covering up something a hell of a lot bigger than that. They went criminally out of their way to do so. What it is they are covering up is anyone's guess. We'll never know. But whatever it is they didn't want the league finding from that phone would have made deflategate merely the footnote. I'm sure of it.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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After more searching, the only thing I have on this is a source stating Munson has said that-

 

"Brady has the option of filing his lawsuit in any US state, and the NFLPA has been very successful arguing in Minnesota before federal judge David Doty. However, Munson said that Doty is now on senior status and not hearing cases anymore, and expects Brady to instead file in Massachusetts to get the home-court advantage."

 

Pulled from this Boston Globe article-

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/16/tom-brady-will-have-tough-time-beating-roger-goodell-court/A47VHCpdcQryDOZtznSRuM/story.html

 

So, I'm still not sure either way yet.

 

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/13340350/jerry-jones-dallas-cowboys-backs-work-roger-goodell

 

Cased filed in Minnesota, but assigned to Richard Kyle, not Doty. So maybe it is true.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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I've tried to stay away from this, with good reason...but this line and the popular sentiment about how the Patriots will now fumble a lot more stood out to me.

 

Why?

 

Because everyone is trying to make the case that since 2007 when teams were allowed to doctor footballs, the Patriots fumble rate was so low that it lends credibility to the affect of playing with a deflated football. But only the home team has the footballs before the game, right? McNally and Jastremski were only around when the games took place at Gillette...they didn't travel to away games. So looking back at the fumble numbers, shouldn't the Patriots have a heck of a lot more fumbles AWAY than they do at HOME?

 

I only ask this because when you DO look at the numbers, it's the exact opposite. It turns out they had a higher fumble rate AT Gillette Stadium than they did AWAY from Gillette Stadium, and this was true for every single season since 2005. So I don't know exactly why people are anxious to see the Patriots fumble numbers this coming season because the numbers from past seasons don't support their narrative. 

 

Maybe, maybe not.  I have read that is the case, but the Patriots get ahold of them at some point.  

 

The Colts first noticed the Patriots were using under inflated footballs at the game in Indianapolis, both of the footballs that Adams intercepted were said to be under inflated.  Also, why did Ben Jarvis Green Ellis not fumble at all while he played for the Pats, but when he was with the Bengals he fumbles 4 or 5 times?  Did he suddenly forget how to secure a football while running with it?

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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PA has filed with judge Doty in Minny who has ruled against the league in the past. They are asking him to toss the suspension by Sept. 4 so Brady can participate in all the practices for the opening game. If he needs more time than they are asking for an injunction. According to Keesler the league has broken at least four procedures rules when it suspended Brady.

 

More info here, http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/07/29/nflpa-appeals-tom-brady-suspension-in-federal-court/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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PA has filed with judge Doty in Minny who has ruled against the league in the past. They are asking him to toss the suspension by Sept. 4 so Brady can participate in all the practices for the opening game. If he needs more time than they are asking for an injunction. According to Keesler the league has broken at least four procedures rules when it suspended Brady.

More info here, http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/07/29/nflpa-appeals-tom-brady-suspension-in-federal-court/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Its not Doty this time.

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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PA has filed with judge Doty in Minny who has ruled against the league in the past. They are asking him to toss the suspension by Sept. 4 so Brady can participate in all the practices for the opening game. If he needs more time than they are asking for an injunction. According to Keesler the league has broken at least four procedures rules when it suspended Brady.

 

More info here, http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/07/29/nflpa-appeals-tom-brady-suspension-in-federal-court/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Check that it went to District Court Judge Richard Kyle.

 

 http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/13340350/jerry-jones-dallas-cowboys-backs-work-roger-goodell

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ViriLudant Walk On

ViriLudant

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Yee said Brady cycled through the cell phone he had used in the months from November through March after returning to the country from celebrating the Super Bowl victory when he was looking to upgrade to an iPhone 6. He said that Brady offered to provide detailed records to the NFL from AT&T that indicated where every call and text message were sent, and that the league in fact had access to the degrees of communication he would have had with the two Patriots employees at the heart of the probe: Jim McNally and John Jastremski.

"Tom's phone billing record from this timeframe shows that he never spoke on the phone or texted with McNally, ever," Yee said. "Tom's phone billing record shows that nearly every communication with Jastremki was already in possession of Wells' team with exception of three texts between Tom and Jastremski on Feb. 7. Every other communication he ever had with Jastremski in that time period was already in the hands of Wells' team. They also had any communication between Tom and the equipment manager (Dave) Schoenfeld."

Yee said that the Brady "voluntarily disclosed to the league" that he had cycled through this cell phone prior to his March meeting with Wells, and that Brady also indicated that it is a regular practice of his to delete emails and texts from his phone "as a safeguard," something Yee advises his clients of as a general practice. "Given Tom's public status, to ever lose phone and have texts and emails on there would be significant consequences from a publicity standpoint," Yee said.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25253590/bradys-agent-nfl-shifted-focus-to-phone-because-its-science-is-junk

Yep. Obfuscation.

By the way, Gramz, John Dowd ripped everything that the NFL has done. Ripped the Wells report. Called this whole situation an ambush.

Now, Gramz is the one who likened this situation to Pete Rose.

Well, the man who investigated Rose and nailed him disagrees with you 100%.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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Yee said Brady cycled through the cell phone he had used in the months from November through March after returning to the country from celebrating the Super Bowl victory when he was looking to upgrade to an iPhone 6. He said that Brady offered to provide detailed records to the NFL from AT&T that indicated where every call and text message were sent, and that the league in fact had access to the degrees of communication he would have had with the two Patriots employees at the heart of the probe: Jim McNally and John Jastremski.

"Tom's phone billing record from this timeframe shows that he never spoke on the phone or texted with McNally, ever," Yee said. "Tom's phone billing record shows that nearly every communication with Jastremki was already in possession of Wells' team with exception of three texts between Tom and Jastremski on Feb. 7. Every other communication he ever had with Jastremski in that time period was already in the hands of Wells' team. They also had any communication between Tom and the equipment manager (Dave) Schoenfeld."

Yee said that the Brady "voluntarily disclosed to the league" that he had cycled through this cell phone prior to his March meeting with Wells, and that Brady also indicated that it is a regular practice of his to delete emails and texts from his phone "as a safeguard," something Yee advises his clients of as a general practice. "Given Tom's public status, to ever lose phone and have texts and emails on there would be significant consequences from a publicity standpoint," Yee said.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25253590/bradys-agent-nfl-shifted-focus-to-phone-because-its-science-is-junk

Yep. Obfuscation.

By the way, Gramz, John Dowd ripped everything that the NFL has done. Ripped the Wells report. Called this whole situation an ambush.

Now, Gramz is the one who likened this situation to Pete Rose.

Well, the man who investigated Rose and nailed him disagrees with you 100%.

So there were three texts that the NFL weren't given access to? Yeah, that's not fully cooperating with the investigation. So good luck in federal court

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IndyD4U Team Captain

IndyD4U

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Yee said Brady cycled through the cell phone he had used in the months from November through March after returning to the country from celebrating the Super Bowl victory when he was looking to upgrade to an iPhone 6. He said that Brady offered to provide detailed records to the NFL from AT&T that indicated where every call and text message were sent, and that the league in fact had access to the degrees of communication he would have had with the two Patriots employees at the heart of the probe: Jim McNally and John Jastremski.

"Tom's phone billing record from this timeframe shows that he never spoke on the phone or texted with McNally, ever," Yee said. "Tom's phone billing record shows that nearly every communication with Jastremki was already in possession of Wells' team with exception of three texts between Tom and Jastremski on Feb. 7. Every other communication he ever had with Jastremski in that time period was already in the hands of Wells' team. They also had any communication between Tom and the equipment manager (Dave) Schoenfeld."

Yee said that the Brady "voluntarily disclosed to the league" that he had cycled through this cell phone prior to his March meeting with Wells, and that Brady also indicated that it is a regular practice of his to delete emails and texts from his phone "as a safeguard," something Yee advises his clients of as a general practice. "Given Tom's public status, to ever lose phone and have texts and emails on there would be significant consequences from a publicity standpoint," Yee said.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25253590/bradys-agent-nfl-shifted-focus-to-phone-because-its-science-is-junk

Yep. Obfuscation.

By the way, Gramz, John Dowd ripped everything that the NFL has done. Ripped the Wells report. Called this whole situation an ambush.

Now, Gramz is the one who likened this situation to Pete Rose.

Well, the man who investigated Rose and nailed him disagrees with you 100%.

Speaking as someone who has real life experience and an education in digital forensic and Cybersecurity. There is a very narrow time frame in which wireless carriers keep actual message contents. Beyond that, carriers have information such as sent to/from and time stamps. That's about it. SMS messages don't work and aren't stored in the same fashion as email servers which contain exabytes of capacity. So handing over billing records which would show the sent information and time stamps doesn't prove or disprove squat.

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