Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[Jaric]

Careful, this is a family forum.

The people in New England knew exactly what I meant...

[NewColtsFan]

Since this topic is now being moved here....

 

The ONLY place that Ted Wells is a "complete joke" is in.....   (drum roll).....    New England.     What a surprise!

 

By the way,  in his telephone conference with the media,  Wells noted that when he first came on to the investigation,  Kraft and the Patriots publicly welcomed him,   didn't question his independence,  and noted they were glad he was now on the case since they thought the NFL's own investigators were bad.

 

Fast forward:    The Pats don't like the outcome that Wells reached and they take a scorched earth policy to him.  Everything he did was wrong......   how convenient.

[Jaric]

I wonder how many people just stopped reading as soon as they got to the Deflator explaination? I know I did.

[ReMeDy]

I wondered that as well. Kraft did say they would accept their punishment...

 

That was before the Pats saw the punishment though. Afterwards, Kraft is now pondering fighting it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000492454/Battista-Limited-cooperation-was-a-significant-factor(@ 1:02)

The video also mentions the lack of cooperation was "significant," so regardless of Brady and the ball fiasco, the Patriots simply did not cooperate to the NFL's expectations, so in that regard, I feel they don't have a case even if they were to fight it. I feel Kraft knows when he's beat. The notion he's "pondering" an appeal is very flimsy language in contrast to when he was demanding an apology from the league before the Wells Report. I feel this chapter of deflate-gate is done and the Patriots will accept the loss of draft picks.

[Gramz]

Wait a second. You trying to tell me this deflate thing according to the Pats was about losing weight?

 

OMG is this for real?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/patriots-lawyer-deflator-texts-about-losing-weight-not-deflating-balls/

 

I know you all been talking about it but.

 

 

No really IS THIS FOR REAL.

 

 

I didn't think it could get any worse. I swear just wow.

Glad to see you're catching up.     It's been entertaining today.

[Jules]

Glad to see you're catching up.     It's been entertaining today.

 

Should the Patriots have straight jackets on when they come to Indy this year?

 

This is sounding a bit whooo hooooo..........

[Gramz]

Should the Patriots have straight jackets on when they come to Indy this year?

 

This is sounding a bit whooo hooooo..........

For Best Results.

[Gramz]

Yeah it's real. I also believe at one point they also posit something to the effect of "well that could have been any Tom..."

  of course it could have been.

[Dustin]

Yes. The loss of picks was because of lack of cooperation.

The only thing that can be overturned is Brady's suspension.

[HorseFly]

Wait a second. You trying to tell me this deflate thing according to the Pats was about losing weight?

 

OMG is this for real?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/patriots-lawyer-deflator-texts-about-losing-weight-not-deflating-balls/

 

I know you all been talking about it but.

 

 

No really IS THIS FOR REAL.

 

 

I didn't think it could get any worse. I swear just wow.

 

 

Well, they were going to go with "The Deflator" being his nickname because he was moonlighting as a REALLY bad porn talent...

 

But they had second thoughts and went with the losing weight line.

[Jaric]

of course it could have been.

We don't know Gramz. We. Don't. Know.

[Mouthfire]

I hate to be a smart*** , but who the heck did Brady hire as his lawyers? The Three Stooges? How does that rebuttal make anything better for Brady? If anything, it makes him look worse. #boggle#

[PeterBowman]

If they go to court this better not be the argument......or theyd be laughed out of court

[OffensivelyPC]

I love the line in the Appeal that reads "If Ted Wells and the NFL believe, as their public comments stated, that the evidence in their report is “direct” and “inculpatory,” then they should be confident enough to present their case before someone who is truly independent."

 

Everything it seems with the NFLPA is neutral until they get the ruling they don't want.  Then when they win, it's "Oh, see?  This is what happens when you get a neutral arbitrator."  If I were Brady, I'd be terrified to be represented by the NFLPA.  DeMaurice is a joke.

[Yoshinator]

That was before the Pats saw the punishment though. Afterwards, Kraft is now pondering fighting it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000492454/Battista-Limited-cooperation-was-a-significant-factor(@ 1:02)

The video also mentions the lack of cooperation was "significant," so regardless of Brady and the ball fiasco, the Patriots simply did not cooperate to the NFL's expectations, so in that regard, I feel they don't have a case even if they were to fight it. I feel Kraft knows when he's beat. The notion he's "pondering" an appeal is very flimsy language in contrast to when he was demanding an apology from the league before the Wells Report. I feel this chapter of deflate-gate is done and the Patriots will accept the loss of draft picks.

 

Yes. The loss of picks was because of lack of cooperation.

The only thing that can be overturned is Brady's suspension.

Thank you guys, looks like it's a win even with the worst-case scenario that Brady's suspension gets overturned then. Definitely good news, they can't escape from everything.

[Deathiltis]

The most incoherent reply to an accusation of wrongdoing I've have ever seen in any organization. My nephew could've made more sense.

[Moose Of Woe]

Well, they've 100% lost their minds and any shred of integrity.

[Moose Of Woe]

It was the bunyip.

 

[Nadine]

No draft for you!

[BlueShoe]

Wait a second. You trying to tell me this deflate thing according to the Pats was about losing weight?

OMG is this for real?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/patriots-lawyer-deflator-texts-about-losing-weight-not-deflating-balls/

I know you all been talking about it but.

No really IS THIS FOR REAL.

I didn't think it could get any worse. I swear just wow.

You've got to be kidding me?

Just ban the entire team. The patriots are hell bent on making a mockery of the entire NFL.

[PrincetonTiger]

Well, they were going to go with "The Deflator" being his nickname because he was moonlighting as a REALLY bad porn talent...

 

But they had second thoughts and went with the losing weight line.

It sounds like a bad Wrestling Moniker

[NewColtsFan]

Here's the review of the anticipated Brady appeal from ESPN legal analyst, Lester Munson.

 

Let's just say he's not impressed by the Pats' case and think New England & Kraft face a difficult up hill fight....

 

It's a very easy read and not too long.... 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12888612/tom-brady-nflpa-cannot-win-appeal-filed-deflategate

[csmopar]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/dansby-suspects-foul-play-from-2008-game-in-new-england/?ocid=yahoo

Yet another player coming out with suspicions of the Patriots cheating....some of this I know is just smoke but where there's smoke, there's fire...

[Bones_Jones]

Munson was a disgraced lawer who has been suspended, disbarred, who decided to take up journalism instead of continuing to practicing law.

After his admittance to the Illinois State Bar in 1976 and practicing law for 13 years, it appears Munson, facing multiple charges of misconduct occurring during a time he was already on probation by the Ilinois Bar, voluntarily agreed to discontinue practicing law. As a mitigating factor in his misconduct, Munson pointed to his alcoholism. In its 1991 decision to suspend Munson’s law license because of his continued misconduct while on probation, the Disciplinary Commission wrote:
“On September 30, 1986, Respondent was suspended from the practice of law for three years and until further order of the Court, and this suspension was stayed and Respondent was placed on probation for three years with conditions. In re Munson, No. 85 CH 57, M.R. 4029. Respondent's misconduct included his neglect of three client matters as well as misstatements regarding the status of two of the client matters. Respondent's misconduct was attributable to his alcoholism.”
.

“In October 1989, Respondent discontinued practicing. Respondent has no current intention to return to the practice of law.”

[OffensivelyPC]

Munson was a disgraced lawer who has been suspended, disbarred, who decided to take up journalism instead of continuing to practicing law.

After his admittance to the Illinois State Bar in 1976 and practicing law for 13 years, it appears Munson, facing multiple charges of misconduct occurring during a time he was already on probation by the Ilinois Bar, voluntarily agreed to discontinue practicing law. As a mitigating factor in his misconduct, Munson pointed to his alcoholism. In its 1991 decision to suspend Munson’s law license because of his continued misconduct while on probation, the Disciplinary Commission wrote:

“On September 30, 1986, Respondent was suspended from the practice of law for three years and until further order of the Court, and this suspension was stayed and Respondent was placed on probation for three years with conditions. In re Munson, No. 85 CH 57, M.R. 4029. Respondent's misconduct included his neglect of three client matters as well as misstatements regarding the status of two of the client matters. Respondent's misconduct was attributable to his alcoholism.”

.

“In October 1989, Respondent discontinued practicing. Respondent has no current intention to return to the practice of law.”

Sometimes, people learn from tehir mistakes.

 

In 2010 The National Law Journal named Ted one of “The Decade’s Most Influential Lawyers” and over the years has repeatedly selected him as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America, including naming Ted as the Lawyer of the Year in 2006. Ted also has been recognized as one of the outstanding jury trial lawyers in the United States by numerous publications including Chambers USA, which in 2012 recognized him as “the best trial lawyer in the country.” In both the 2013 and 2014 editions of Chambers USA, Ted was named a Star Performer in three categories: nationwide trial litigation, New York general commercial litigation and New York white-collar crime and government investigations, and Benchmark Litigation named him in similar categories. The Legal 500 has recognized him as a Leading Lawyer in white-collar criminal defense and as a Leading Trial Lawyer.

[Surge89]

Sometimes, people learn from tehir mistakes.

In 2010 The National Law Journal named Ted one of “The Decade’s Most Influential Lawyers” and over the years has repeatedly selected him as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America, including naming Ted as the Lawyer of the Year in 2006. Ted also has been recognized as one of the outstanding jury trial lawyers in the United States by numerous publications including Chambers USA, which in 2012 recognized him as “the best trial lawyer in the country.” In both the 2013 and 2014 editions of Chambers USA, Ted was named a Star Performer in three categories: nationwide trial litigation, New York general commercial litigation and New York white-collar crime and government investigations, and Benchmark Litigation named him in similar categories. The Legal 500 has recognized him as a Leading Lawyer in white-collar criminal defense and as a Leading Trial Lawyer.

You don't look at all the facts, jeeze. You only look at those that benefit the Patriots regardless if they are 40 years old.... duh

#patriotway

#cheatingisntpatriotsfault

#ifyouaintcheatinyouainttryin

Oh, almost forgot...

#everyoneelsedoesit

#deflectgate

[Bones_Jones]

yet many lawyers think munson is a joke

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/14/espn-needs-to-get-a-better-legal-expert/

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/espn-legal-analyst-does-disservice-to-all-mankind/

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

yet many lawyers think munson is a joke

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/14/espn-needs-to-get-a-better-legal-expert/

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/espn-legal-analyst-does-disservice-to-all-mankind/

 

You realize this all cuts both ways.....   if Lawyers are down on Munson -- OK.

 

But let's be clear,  only a die-hard Patriots fan takes the website you posted in the other thread seriously.    It was created BY the Patriots for their fans and to try and influence public opinion.    It's hardly an unbiased site filled with neutral observations by people who don't have a bias one way or another.

 

And yet,  you posted it and then listed all the things that are going to happen as a result,  as if YOU were quoting from some all-knowing, all-seeing superpower.

 

Give me a break.

 

Now,  back to Munson,  the man had serious personal issues more than 25 years ago.   One must realize that many posters on this website weren't even born when Munson stopped practicing law.   The point here being that more than 25 years ago is a long, long, long time for most here.

 

But what has Munson been doing since he stopped practicing law?    All he's done is work for Sports Illustrated from 1991 to 2007,  then on to ESPN since then and he still works there,   and he's also a professor of Journalism at Northwestern University, which has one of the top-5 Journalism schools in the world.

 

Seems like the guy has cleaned up his act and is doing quite well for himself.    If he's an example of a failure, then all of us should fail so well.    The guy is failing upward,  not downward.

 

Finally....   his view is now out there.   He's either right, or he's not.   We'll all find out soon enough.   From what I've been reading/hearing,  this might not get addressed for at least 4-6 weeks.    So, perhaps we're looking at June/July.......

 

Until then,  we're all guessing.....   just some more informed than others......

[Bones_Jones]

Munson made several errors but I'll focus on one since he's an attorney. He uses the term "clear and convincing evidence" which has significance in legal matters as it is one notch above "by a preponderance of the evidence" "more likely than not" which is what Wells "concluded" but lower than " beyond a reasonable doubt" which is the criminal standard. In essence, Wells claimed the lowest standard of proof which many of us would argue that he failed to meet even that. Munson concludes beyond even Wells that Brady's guilt was "clear and convincing" which even Wells didn't conclude.....
http://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-is-clear-and-convincing-evidence/

[Bones_Jones]

interesting.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/wells-contradicts-his-own-report-regarding-mcnally-texts/

 

 

Wells explained to Hubbuch that, because the message in which McNally calls himself the “Deflator” was sent in May 2014, Wells hadn’t noticed it before questioning McNally the first time, since Wells had gone through only the text messages from the 2014 football season at that point.

Apart from the question of whether Wells or someone from his team should have churned the billable hours to review all text messages before interviewing McNally (and they should have), Wells’ explanation contradicts his own report.

At page 87, Wells quotes a text message from November 2014 in which McNally said, “Deflate and give somebody that [jacket].” Wells then explains in the report, “We planned to discuss this message with McNally during our requested follow-up interview. As noted above, we were unable to do so because counsel for the Patriots refused to make McNally available.”

In other words, Wells’ comments to Hubbuch are not factually accurate. Wells now says didn’t notice the May 2014 “Deflator” text message because he had reviewed only the text messages sent during the 2014 football season, and yet the Wells report expressly states that he wanted to question McNally a second time about one of the text messages sent during the 2014 football season.

 

 

 

 

oh by the way, Florio is a vikings fan.   he bashed pats alot in the past

[NewColtsFan]

Munson made several errors but I'll focus on one since he's an attorney. He uses the term "clear and convincing evidence" which has significance in legal matters as it is one notch above "by a preponderance of the evidence" "more likely than not" which is what Wells "concluded" but lower than " beyond a reasonable doubt" which is the criminal standard. In essence, Wells claimed the lowest standard of proof which many of us would argue that he failed to meet even that. Munson concludes beyond even Wells that Brady's guilt was "clear and convincing" which even Wells didn't conclude.....

http://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-is-clear-and-convincing-evidence/

 

Wells did NOT claim the lowest standard of proof.

 

He used the standard of proof he was REQUIRED to use as it is written in the NFL's own by-laws and has been that way for years.

 

A preponderance of the evidence....   some people think of it as 51/49....   others says it's as narrow as 50.1 to 49.9.

 

Either way,  you get it....   just slightly more to one side than the other and that is the decision.   That's what you get with a standard of preponderance of the evidence.  

 

This wasn't just installed recently to put the screws to the Patriots.   This has been the NFL standard for years.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Weeks.  And.  Weeks.  Of.  This....

[crazycolt1]

Munson made several errors but I'll focus on one since he's an attorney. He uses the term "clear and convincing evidence" which has significance in legal matters as it is one notch above "by a preponderance of the evidence" "more likely than not" which is what Wells "concluded" but lower than " beyond a reasonable doubt" which is the criminal standard. In essence, Wells claimed the lowest standard of proof which many of us would argue that he failed to meet even that. Munson concludes beyond even Wells that Brady's guilt was "clear and convincing" which even Wells didn't conclude.....

http://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-is-clear-and-convincing-evidence/

If you concentrated of the facts of the case instead of trying to deflect and discredit anyone who is not pro Patriot you would be better suited. You spend all of this time trying to do nothing but argue and come up with things that have zero to do with the case. Typical Patriot fan. Overlooking the true facts of the case and grasping for straws.

[crazycolt1]

Wells did NOT claim the lowest standard of proof.

 

He used the standard of proof he was REQUIRED to use as it is written in the NFL's own by-laws and has been that way for years.

 

A preponderance of the evidence....   some people think of it as 51/49....   others says it's as narrow as 50.1 to 49.9.

 

Either way,  you get it....   just slightly more to one side than the other and that is the decision.   That's what you get with a standard of preponderance of the evidence.  

 

This wasn't just installed recently to put the screws to the Patriots.   This has been the NFL standard for years.

You are wasting your time with this poster. He does nothing but grasp for straws and try to discredit anyone who is not pro Patriot He is a typical Patriot fan is the sense of deflecting the facts of the case. He is basing his comments on pro patriot bias journalist. It is propaganda at it's best.

[BlueShoe]

You realize this all cuts both ways.....   if Lawyers are down on Munson -- OK.

 

But let's be clear,  only a die-hard Patriots fan takes the website you posted in the other thread seriously.    It was created BY the Patriots for their fans and to try and influence public opinion.    It's hardly an unbiased site filled with neutral observations by people who don't have a bias one way or another.

 

And yet,  you posted it and then listed all the things that are going to happen as a result,  as if YOU were quoting from some all-knowing, all-seeing superpower.

 

Give me a break.

 

Now,  back to Munson,  the man had serious personal issues more than 25 years ago.   One must realize that many posters on this website weren't even born when Munson stopped practicing law.   The point here being that more than 25 years ago is a long, long, long time for most here.

 

But what has Munson been doing since he stopped practicing law?    All he's done is work for Sports Illustrated from 1991 to 2007,  then on to ESPN since then and he still works there,   and he's also a professor of Journalism at Northwestern University, which has one of the top-5 Journalism schools in the world.

 

Seems like the guy has cleaned up his act and is doing quite well for himself.    If he's an example of a failure, then all of us should fail so well.    The guy is failing upward,  not downward.

 

Finally....   his view is now out there.   He's either right, or he's not.   We'll all find out soon enough.   From what I've been reading/hearing,  this might not get addressed for at least 4-6 weeks.    So, perhaps we're looking at June/July.......

 

Until then,  we're all guessing.....   just some more informed than others......

 

Well said!

 

The patriots organization and its fans are insulting everyone's intelligence.

 

We are supposed to buy "the deflator" is just trying to lose some weight. They really believe we are that stupid. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/dansby-suspects-foul-play-from-2008-game-in-new-england/?ocid=yahoo

Yet another player coming out with suspicions of the Patriots cheating....some of this I know is just smoke but where there's smoke, there's fire...

 

It took him 7 years...

[amfootball]

No. Kraft can go to court and get the whole thing over turned. We will see how far he goes but that 40 page rebuttal has most thinking he is going all the way with this ...

[Gramz]

No. Kraft can go to court and get the whole thing over turned. We will see how far he goes but that 40 page rebuttal has most thinking he is going all the way with this ...

That 40 page rebuttal has "most" thinking he lost his marbles.

[csmopar]

It took him 7 years...

 

 

Yeah i know...

[csmopar]

No. Kraft can go to court and get the whole thing over turned. We will see how far he goes but that 40 page rebuttal has most thinking he is going all the way with this ...

 

 

Really? because most legal experts disagree.  You don't publish a detailed rebuttal and give away your defensive strategy if you're going to court...... plus only someone with half of a brain would believe that rebuttal, which is probably still more brain power than the Pats put into this rebuttal....guy was called the deflator because he lost weight, bulllllllllcraaappppp.  That is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.