DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[Buck Showalter]

2-6 games is not a slap on the wrist and this IS about his rep more so than the punishment. Anything beyond a fine and he is going to court. Yee made that pretty clear on his media tour this week ...

BWAHAHAHA....

 

this is ridiculous!!!

 

Going to court, that is funny...

[corgi]

This isn't about Brady at all. I understand legalities from my PR background. Believe me when I tell you the report is a pile of poop and that is what Yee was communicating this past week and the fact that Brady will fight any type of suspension and tear that report apart with his legal counsel. It will take all of 5 minutes to do.

If it were raining soup, Don Yee and Tom Brady's cronies would be in the front yard holding forks.

[HOZER]

Sorry Double Post

[corgi]

I have no hopes either way. Just reading the tea leaves here ...

Just prepare for the worst and hope for the best. It's not the end of the world either way.

[Lawrence Owen]

Speculation now is pointless.. i am over it...none of our opinions are going to matter.  We wait..see what is handed down,..and the explanation for that.  Then we can begin anew on how some says it was perfect punishment, others say not enough, and even others saying too much.  no matter what happens some people will not be happy, and other furious.  We could debate this until the end of time or wear our finger to little stubs typing our opinions over and over...

[amfootball]

Just prepare for the worst and hope for the best. It's not the end of the world either way.

I am with you 100 percent Corgi. It is what it is. Thanks goodness it is May so however it falls there is plenty of time to deal with it for the team.

[Buck Showalter]

Ok, so I will give you my best PR counsel on this. The NFL leaked that it was planning on suspending Brady to gauge public perception. Now that it has seen that perception, it is has now come and said the insinuation of suspension is misleading. This has happened for a few reasons:

 

1) The networks got to Goodell is said you have to be kidding me suspending Brady for the home opening in which they have paid millions into.

 

2) Don Yee's campaign these last few days to basically say that Brady will fight this tooth and nail. League does not want a battle with its biggest star/

 

3) And the biggest one IMO. The report is a pile of poop and the league knows its suspension will not get upheld just like Peterson, Rice and Vilma.

Best PR counsel???

 

You are killing it !!!

comedian of the week for sure...

[BlueShoe]

Too late. Once they commissioned a report for ball pressure that was pretty much the nail in the coffin.

 

Are you aware of a rule that states the ball pressure must be within a specific range and that any tampering is not permitted. 

 

Don't blame the NFL for doing the investigation. Had brady told the truth to begin with then the NFL wouldn't have wasted millions of dollars on the report.

 

Better yet, the NFL would not have even had to ask any questions about this had brady not cheated to begin with.

 

It is amazingly arrogant that you believe it is the NFL's fault for brady cheating. 

[amfootball]

Best PR counsel???

 

You are killing it !!!

comedian of the week for sure...

I used to work in PR for over 12 years. I am no expert for sure but I did deal with a lot of legalities on behalf of clients and lots of NDAs so I am familiar with how the process works and how documents are prepared to cast a certain light and also avoid law suits. I have to say I find it fascinating that the NFL released the report with no comment at all from the league. It does not paint a good picture of the league at all and the holes in it are gaping. It almost seems as though it was rushed even though it took 100 days to complete. Wells should have tried to tie up the loose ends more. The footnotes alone are stunning.

[dgambill]

I am with you 100 percent Corgi. It is what it is. Thanks goodness it is May so however it falls there is plenty of time to deal with it for the team.

just wondering say Brady sits like 6 games and jimmy comes in and has them like 5-1 or 6-0 and plays well....would belicheck stick with the hot hand like he did with Brady? It would be hard to believe that happening but this whole thing is so weird it's like a twilight zone episode.

[amfootball]

just wondering say Brady sits like 6 games and jimmy comes in and has them like 5-1 or 6-0 and plays well....would belicheck stick with the hot hand like he did with Brady? It would be hard to believe that happening but this whole thing is so weird it's like a twilight zone episode.

I don't think there is anyway Brady is sitting 6 games. But to answer your question, no. Bill will put Brady back in no matter how good Jimmy looks. He just won his 4h SB and 3rd MVP. He plays no matter what.

[Buck Showalter]

I used to work in PR for over 12 years. I am no expert for sure but I did deal with a lot of legalities on behalf of clients and lots of NDAs so I am familiar with how the process works and how documents are prepared to cast a certain light and also avoid law suits. I have to say I find it fascinating that the NFL released the report with no comment at all from the league. It does not paint a good picture of the league at all and the holes in it are gaping. It almost seems as though it was rushed even though it took 100 days to complete. Wells should have tried to tie up the loose ends more. The footnotes alone are stunning.

Stunning, I tell you...

Stunning...

& Laughable...

[BlueShoe]

Best PR counsel???

 

You are killing it !!!

comedian of the week for sure...

 

That dude is a believer that the NFL ran a sting operation without any private investigators following the balls around, manning the sidelines and listening to chatter, installing additional cameras, and so on.

 

The NFL was out to get the rats. I am not sure if we should diagnose this as rose colored glasses fan or schizophrenia. 

[amfootball]

That dude is a believer that the NFL ran a sting operation without any private investigators following the balls around, manning the sidelines and listening to chatter, installing additional cameras, and so on.

 

The NFL was out to get the rats. I am not sure if we should diagnose this as rose colored glasses fan or schizophrenia. 

Not a sting just incompetence as usual. They were not smart enough to do a proper sting which is obvious from how they actually handled the game balls after being notified by Grigson beforehand.

[Buck Showalter]

That dude is a believer that the NFL ran a sting operation without any private investigators following the balls around, manning the sidelines and listening to chatter, installing additional cameras, and so on.

 

The NFL was out to get the rats. I am not sure if we should diagnose this as rose colored glasses fan or schizophrenia. 

 

not sure what she's been smokin' but she's hit comedic gold this week, I haven't been able to keep up... 

can't debate with the fundamentally insane...

[BlueShoe]

I used to work in PR for over 12 years. I am no expert for sure but I did deal with a lot of legalities on behalf of clients and lots of NDAs so I am familiar with how the process works and how documents are prepared to cast a certain light and also avoid law suits. I have to say I find it fascinating that the NFL released the report with no comment at all from the league. It does not paint a good picture of the league at all and the holes in it are gaping. It almost seems as though it was rushed even though it took 100 days to complete. Wells should have tried to tie up the loose ends more. The footnotes alone are stunning.

 

I don't believe your first four words, let alone anything else you have written. Who and the heck would hire you? 

 

There is no way you used to work anywhere near lawsuits because you do not even understand that "more probable than not" is a guilty verdict in civil courts. O.J. was acquitted criminally, but lost in the civil court. You just don't get it do you? 

[BlueShoe]

Not a sting just incompetence as usual. They were not smart enough to do a proper sting which is obvious from how they actually handled the game balls after being notified by Grigson beforehand.

 

I just about fell out of my seat on that one. LOL

 

You're kidding right? This has all been a joke to you right? Please tell me that and then we can laugh this one off.

[BlueShoe]

not sure what she's been smokin' but she's hit comedic gold this week, I haven't been able to keep up... 

can't debate with the fundamentally insane...

 

It's like playing chess and the pieces keep randomly moving every few minutes. 

[amfootball]

I don't believe your first four words, let alone anything else you have written. Who and the heck would hire you? 

 

There is no way you used to work anywhere near lawsuits because you do not even understand that "more probable than not" is a guilty verdict in civil courts. O.J. was acquitted criminally, but lost in the civil court. You just don't get it do you? 

"More probably than not" is the weakest language someone can use to impugn guilt. Wells could have chosen much stronger language. I know some in the media have said that he was using the language the NFL uses in its rule book to hand out punishments but that is irrelevant if this gets to court that won't hold up especially since the report has zero evidence tying Brady to anything involving the AFCCG game and a whole bunch of evidence that would exonerate him including the fact that that Anderson never wrote down the pre-game psi measurements and to boot is unsure what gauge he used to measure the balls. Without that info written down, the halftime measurements become irrelevant as they had two different gauges that produced two different sets of data and also only measured 4 Colts balls to the Pats 11. Believe me, the NFL knows this. If Brady goes to court which he has indicated through Yee that he will do than they will lose big on this. This is a lay up if there ever was one.

[Gramz]

Honest to God....  Just when I think it can't possibly get any more bizarre   It always does.

 

I really appreciate the posters on here that know how to keep things in perspective,  you're the reasons I don't jump ship.

[Buck Showalter]

"More probably than not" is the weakest language someone can use to impugn guilt. Wells could have chosen much stronger language. I know some in the media have said that he was using the language the NFL uses in its rule book to hand out punishments but that is irrelevant if this gets to court that won't hold up especially since the report has zero evidence tying Brady to anything involving the AFCCG game and a whole bunch of evidence that would exonerate him including the fact that that Anderson never wrote down the pre-game psi measurements and to boot is unsure what gauge he used to measure the balls. Without that info written down, the halftime measurements become irrelevant as they had two different gauges that produced two different sets of data and also only measured 4 Colts balls to the Pats 11. Believe me, the NFL knows this. If Brady goes to court which he has indicated through Yee that he will do than they will lose big on this. This is a lay up if there ever was one.

Classic,

you really do deserve an award...

[BlueShoe]

"More probably than not" is the weakest language someone can use to impugn guilt. Wells could have chosen much stronger language. I know some in the media have said that he was using the language the NFL uses in its rule book to hand out punishments but that is irrelevant if this gets to court that won't hold up especially since the report has zero evidence tying Brady to anything involving the AFCCG game and a whole bunch of evidence that would exonerate him including the fact that that Anderson never wrote down the pre-game psi measurements and to boot is unsure what gauge he used to measure the balls. Without that info written down, the halftime measurements become irrelevant as they had two different gauges that produced two different sets of data and also only measured 4 Colts balls to the Pats 11. Believe me, the NFL knows this. If Brady goes to court which he has indicated through Yee that he will do than they will lose big on this. This is a lay up if there ever was one.

 

Okay, I will explain this to you one more time. Maybe it will finally sink in. "More probable than not" is a guilty verdict in civil court. That is a fact. That fact will not change. No matter how many times you try to change it in your mind, reality is still the same when you come back from that fantasy. It is legal language and is often used. The phrase was adopted by the NFL to use in all cases. 

 

Civil court and criminal court are two completely different entities. The rules are different in criminal court. For example, brady would not have the option to keep his cell phone in criminal court, because it would have been taken into physical custody and marked as evidence.

 

You're completely lost. You need to become more educated about how our civil and criminal systems work. You also need to stop believing that you know things when you really don't, because it is making you look very foolish right now. 

[OffensivelyPC]

I said I was fanatical ...

then you shouldn't expect reasonableness in return.

[amfootball]

Okay, I will explain this to you one more time. Maybe it finally sink in. "More probable than not" is a guilty verdict in civil court. That is a fact. That fact will not change. No matter how many times you try to change it in your mind, reality is still the same when you come back from that fantasy. It is legal language and is often used. The phrase was adopted by the NFL to use in all cases. 

 

Civil court and criminal court are two completely different entities. The rules are different in criminal court. For example, brady would not have the option to keep his cell phone in criminal court, because it would have been taken into physical custody and marked as evidence.

 

You're completely lost. You need to become more educated about how our civil and criminal systems work. You also need to stop believing that you know things when you really don't, because it is making you look very foolish right now. 

You do understand that the "more probably than not" verdict is based on the Wells report? A report that is full of holes, inferences and incomplete information? The phrase itself has to be substantiated and this report is anything but that.

[buccolts]

This is my 3rd post in this thread. Count how many you have and it will decide whose head they are in.

What would the number of either of our posts in this thread have anything to do with it?

You're the only one to express concern about the big bad Pats getting motivated.

I couldn't care less. It's the Colts responsibility to do something about it and I can only hope they do.

Patriot way...pfft.

[Gramz]

Mods..... Please Delete My Account.

 

If and when the nonsense stops, I will join back up again.

[ReMeDy]

Read something else that's interesting:
http://tikiandtierney.radio.cbssports.com/2015/05/08/chris-simms-brady-the-only-qb-to-go-below-legal-limit/

Chris Simms knows Brady very well and says he is the ONLY qb to go BELOW the legal psi limit on his footballs. Siims sees other team's qb's with their ball boys on the sidelines. It looks like the ball boys for New England go unaccounted for a lot?

He goes on to say:
“(As far as) being able to pin that (deflate-gate) to Tom . . . well, you and I both know, equipment guys, they wouldn’t do anything without getting the green flag from the quarterback or the head coach,” Simms said. “This is an area where I don’t think the head coach ever gets involved. This is a Brady and a ball boy situation. We don’t have anything definitive right now, but to me, all signs point toward guilty.”

Agreed. It's pretty obvious equipment staff are not going to go rogue and do this on their own accord. That's dumb, and if the sports memorabilia/gifts are any indication, Brady certainly was involved.

[BlueShoe]

You do understand that the "more probably than not" verdict is based on the Wells report? A report that is full of holes, inferences and incomplete information? The phrase itself has to be substantiated and this report is anything but that.

 

Let's break this down.

1. It is a fact that a verdict of "more probable than not" is the same as guilty.
2. The Wells Report is the product of an independent investigation.
3. The Wells Report concluded that, in connection with the AFC Championship Game, it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules.
4. Rule 2 of the Official Playing Rules of the NFL requires that footballs used during NFL games must be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. In particular, the rule states that “[t]he ball shall be made up of an inflated (12½ to 13½ pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind.”

Those are a few simple facts. Now elaborate on where you believe these loopholes are. 

[amfootball]

 

Let's break this down.

1. It is a fact that a verdict of "more probable than not" is the same as guilty.
2. The Wells Report is the product of an independent investigation.
3. The Wells Report concluded that, in connection with the AFC Championship Game, it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules.
4. Rule 2 of the Official Playing Rules of the NFL requires that footballs used during NFL games must be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. In particular, the rule states that “[t]he ball shall be made up of an inflated (12½ to 13½ pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind.”

Those are a few simple facts. Now elaborate on where you believe these loopholes are. 

 

I already did in a previous post on this thread but I will summarize again:

• The report has zero evidence tying Brady to anything involving the AFCCG game. No texts, no messages, nothing.
•  Walt Anderson never wrote down the pre-game psi measurements and was unsure what gauge he used to measure the balls. This alone would get the report thrown out as it is hearsay and the most important fact in determining if balls were tampered with.
• The halftime measurements which are now irrelevant given the pre-game psi is based on hearsay were done with two different gauges giving two different sets of data. On top of that only 4 Colts balls were measure to the Pats 11. And one of the Colts 4 balls had to be elimated due to a faulty reading.
• Brady played with balls that were inflated to 16 psi during the Jets game. Wells apparently interviewd the ref that did that game but never shared his testimony as to why he inflated the balls to 16 psi which is 2.5 psi above the range. This would beg the question about how the balls are handled by the refs pre-game and again call into question Walt's handling of the balls at the AFCCG.

 

I could go on but I think you get the jist here. There are holes, big holes everywhere that would be shot down in a legal procedure regardless of verbiage used to try to impugn Brady. 

[ruksak]

I'm not sure what there is to argue about here?

 

When you walk into your living room, you see a broken lamp laying next to a ball, you don't need "evidence" to know your child was responsible. You don't need a confession. You don't need video evidence, scientific data, weather reports. 

 

After losing to New England last January, I was complimenting Brady and the team for what they've accomplished. I talked very highly of them. ....but then this happened. At first, I was shocked. After a bit, I thought this to be no big deal, but then Tom denied it, and did so in a very unconvincing way. 

 

 

Now we have text messages from his equipment guys, one of them nicknamed "The Deflater". 

 

"The Deflater"? Are you kidding me? Really? And these Boston fans are actually going to ignore this? What was the other guys nickname? Pete The Cheat? For Christ's sakes.....this is HILARIOUS. 

 

The whole thing is just a big joke, with thousands of punchlines (Boston Fans) who cannot pronounce the letter "W". 

[ruksak]

Mods..... Please Delete My Account.

 

If and when the nonsense stops, I will join back up again.

Don't say things like that. Just do what I did a few months ago. Leave, add a few people to your ignore list, and come back when you feel you can deal. 

 

PS: This conversation will NEVER end, not unless Tom grows a pair of stones and admits his role, this will NEVER go away. 

[coltsfansince65]

NFL has come out and said headline saying Brady will be suspended is misleading, http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-calls-headline-about-brady-suspension-misleading/ar-BBjvcOW?li=BBgzzfc&ocid=LENDHP

 

So hold your horses everyone ...

 

 

It's "more probable than not" the league does levy a suspension.

[basspapaw]

Well here we are, wondering whether or not TB gets suspended, AM fighting tooth and nail like TB is her son, Blind to all Facts and not caring about all the proof that is contained in the report, Poor Tom did not tell   the equipment manager to deflate the balls he just payed him when the balls were how he liked them and if they  had to much air he just let them know they were not right.

This is absurd TB is guilty he helped make the rules then he broke them,

BB,s job is to know what goes on

   Kraft payed them to win at any cost ,

  They cheated  they new they were cheating then they lied about it  granted BB has more practice at lying and cheating so he didnt get caught this time  but he should be held responsible for letting this take place.

If it were Luck I would expect the colts alone to suspend him, The league wouldn't  need to interfere.

If the league dosen't come down on them the NFL will be the loser.

I think I,m done until the suspension gets  handed down .

I kinda admire AM for being able to some how  validate TBs innocence

P.S.

The sourgrapes commit really irked me

[ReMeDy]

 

NFL has come out and said headline saying Brady will be suspended is misleading, http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-calls-headline-about-brady-suspension-misleading/ar-BBjvcOW?li=BBgzzfc&ocid=LENDHP

 

So hold your horses everyone ...

 

 

It's "more probable than not" the league does levy a suspension.

 

 

Regardless, according to that article, the entire NFL community -- Boston included -- appears to be gearing up for Tom Brady to miss some playing time. Roger Goodell has taken notice of this, hence he feels he won't be overstepping his boundaries if he does ban Brady for x number of games. Therefore, it's basically official. Brady will miss time.

[BlueShoe]

I already did in a previous post on this thread but I will summarize again:

• The report has zero evidence tying Brady to anything involving the AFCCG game. No texts, no messages, nothing.
•  Walt Anderson never wrote down the pre-game psi measurements and was unsure what gauge he used to measure the balls. This alone would get the report thrown out as it is hearsay and the most important fact in determining if balls were tampered with.
• The halftime measurements which are now irrelevant given the pre-game psi is based on hearsay were done with two different gauges giving two different sets of data. On top of that only 4 Colts balls were measure to the Pats 11. And one of the Colts 4 balls had to be elimated due to a faulty reading.
• Brady played with balls that were inflated to 16 psi during the Jets game. Wells apparently interviewd the ref that did that game but never shared his testimony as to why he inflated the balls to 16 psi which is 2.5 psi above the range. This would beg the question about how the balls are handled by the refs pre-game and again call into question Walt's handling of the balls at the AFCCG.

 

I could go on but I think you get the jist here. There are holes, big holes everywhere that would be shot down in a legal procedure regardless of verbiage used to try to impugn Brady. 

 

Have you actually read the report? Here is a snippet:

 

"The primary topic of the investigation has been the circumstances surrounding the use by the Patriots of footballs inflated at below-regulation air pressure levels during the AFC Championship Game, including whether Patriots personnel were involved in deliberate efforts to circumvent the Playing Rules. The investigation also has involved an assessment of the circumstances surrounding a possible attempt by the Patriots to introduce to the playing field a non-approved kicking ball during the AFC Championship Game. For the reasons described in this Report, and after a comprehensive investigation, we have concluded that, in connection with the AFC Championship Game, it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules. In particular, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally (the Officials Locker Room attendant for the Patriots) and John Jastremski (an equipment assistant for the Patriots) participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were examined by the referee. Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls."

[coltsfansince65]

2-6 games is not a slap on the wrist and this IS about his rep more so than the punishment. Anything beyond a fine and he is going to court. Yee made that pretty clear on his media tour this week ...

Good, let him go to court & have the league supoena those texts & phone records he's so afraid to disclose.

[GoColts8818]

People are trying to use logic and argue with someone you aren't going to win an argument with.  No matter what is said or is found amfootball isn't going to change her mind.  People are pretty much arguing with a brick wall right now.  If people wish to keep doing that please feel free but you aren't going to change her mind. 

[crazycolt1]

"More probably than not" is the weakest language someone can use to impugn guilt. Wells could have chosen much stronger language. I know some in the media have said that he was using the language the NFL uses in its rule book to hand out punishments but that is irrelevant if this gets to court that won't hold up especially since the report has zero evidence tying Brady to anything involving the AFCCG game and a whole bunch of evidence that would exonerate him including the fact that that Anderson never wrote down the pre-game psi measurements and to boot is unsure what gauge he used to measure the balls. Without that info written down, the halftime measurements become irrelevant as they had two different gauges that produced two different sets of data and also only measured 4 Colts balls to the Pats 11. Believe me, the NFL knows this. If Brady goes to court which he has indicated through Yee that he will do than they will lose big on this. This is a lay up if there ever was one.

So if Brady does decide to go to court he will have to give up his cell phone. That will be enough to tie up any lose ends for the prosecution. You have yet to even come close to having a plausible explanation of the known facts in this. You are really making yourself look silly with your inability to accept what everyone knows except for the Patriot fans who are so bias they refuse to see the truth. Brady is going to be suspended and there is nothing you are going to do about it but whine.

[C0lts088]

Ok, so I will give you my best PR counsel on this. The NFL leaked that it was planning on suspending Brady to gauge public perception. Now that it has seen that perception, it is has now come and said the insinuation of suspension is misleading. This has happened for a few reasons:

1) The networks got to Goodell is said you have to be kidding me suspending Brady for the home opening in which they have paid millions into.

2) Don Yee's campaign these last few days to basically say that Brady will fight this tooth and nail. League does not want a battle with its biggest star/

3) And the biggest one IMO. The report is a pile of poop and the league knows its suspension will not get upheld just like Peterson, Rice and Vilma.

Is brady by any chance related to you?! Cause that'd explain a lot!!

Seriously! He's guilty, just accept it! Anybody that even skims through the wells report can see he's guilty, let alone actually read it! This whole conspiracy thing is ridiculous lmaoo!

[ColtsSouljah]

The only way certain pats fans could show themselves to be less credible and objective in this thread is if Brady went on national TV and admitted his guilt and they still said he was innocent....... wow, just wow. And we all thought the spygate defenses were a joke. This is a whole new level.