DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[PrincetonTiger]

Vilma was not criminal. He was suing for defamation. And neither Peterson or Rice were ever convicted of anything ...

I was not referring to Vilma

[amfootball]

It proves McNally does not follow NFL rules.

Yes and he should be punished for that but still does not prove tampering ...

[Coltsman1788]

To see Jimmy G in actual game action to see if he is the heir apparent

Ok...gotcha.  Thanks.

[amfootball]

I was not referring to Vilma

Vilma is most similar to Brady. I am not sure if Brady would go as far as defamation but then again Yee was pretty adamant that they would fight this full bore pending league punishment.

[dynasty13]

It proves McNally does not follow NFL rules.

I don't think there's much denying that part...but how does that prove that Brady is involved and worthy of a suspension?

[ponyboy]

I expect a punishment. A harsh one. I am actually hoping for it as Yee made it clear that even a one game suspension means Brady will take the league to court ...

 

NFL is already doing Pats a favor and trying to minimize the damage by focusing only on the AFCC game.  If they were to disclose that it's actually been going on for many years then it would look much worse.  The PR spin team has latched on that and is running with it by stressing how it didn't have an effect on the outcome of the game.  But if you look at Brady's past performances in bad weather games you now have to wonder if he was so good because of his unfair advantage.  Kind of like you'd never know if Bonds would have hit 73 home runs without the unfair advantage -- he would have still been great but how much did the advantage help.  You'd be asking the same  about Brady (I do).

 

Regarding the suspension.. be careful what you wish for.  If they go too light on the punishment they'll start putting a picture of Brady next to Greg  Hardy and asking why Hardy's punishment is so much more severe than Brady's (both "probably" did something.. this poster keeps saying "prove it" which could apply to Hardy too). That would take this whole thing in a new bad direction.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Commish has this in the back of his mind.

[NewColtsFan]

Vilma was not criminal. He was suing for defamation. And neither Peterson or Rice were ever convicted of anything ...

 

I don't know why you're still trying to go down this road?

 

A player doesn't have to be found guilty of anything to be suspended by the league.   It's called Conduct not in the best interest of the League.     And Peterson, for one,  struck a plea deal.    But even that doesn't matter.

 

The NFL doesn't have to have Tom Brady confess.    They don't have to get the two equipment guys to wear a wire and get Brady on tape confessing.    They don't have to have a smoking gun that you want.

 

They simply have to have more belief that something was done than not.    A preponderance of the evidence.

 

Heck,  the other day,   even Damien Woody,  a former Patriot who loves New England and Belichick and Brady and everything about his time with the Pats -- even he think that Brady did it and is lying......

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/08/ex-patriot-damien-woody-i-believe-tom-brady-cheated/

 

This is really embarrassing for you.    I don't think you realize how much your credibility has been damaged by this....   arguing against the Wells Report is just spitting into the wind and telling everyone that it's raining on you......

[amfootball]

I don't know why you're still trying to go down this road?

 

A player doesn't have to be found guilty of anything to be suspended by the league.   It's called Conduct not in the best interest of the League.     And Peterson, for one,  struck a plea deal.    But even that doesn't matter.

 

The NFL doesn't have to have Tom Brady confess.    They don't have to get the two equipment guys to wear a wire and get Brady on tape confessing.    They don't have to have a smoking gun that you want.

 

They simply have to have more belief that something was done than not.    A preponderance of the evidence.

 

Heck,  the other day,   even Damien Woody,  a former Patriot who loves New England and Belichick and Brady and everything about his time with the Pats -- even he think that Brady did it and is lying......

 

This is really embarrassing for you.    I don't think you realize how much your credibility has been damaged by this....   arguing against the Wells Report is just spitting into the wind and telling everyone that it's raining on you......

Have you read my posts? I am not talking about the league. They can do whatever they want and I expect a harsh ruling BUT Brady plans on going to court with this and the "preponderance of evidence" the league is using is based on the Wells report which is full of holes. I believe any type of suspension the league hands out will be over turned when this goes to court as that is Brady's plan if they try to suspend him.

[BlueShoe]

Yes and he should be punished for that but still does not prove tampering ...

 

Again, this is not a criminal court of law. This is on the civil system side. It does not have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Common sense is actually used in civil cases.

 

McNally broke the rules by taking the balls (without permission) to the football field. The refs could not locate the balls so they headed to the field. They did not find McNally nor did they find the footballs. A ref decided to get the backup footballs from the locker room, and when he returned to the field with the backup balls McNally was there with the the original footballs.  

 

After the game NFL security questioned McNally about where he was when he left the locker room. McNally told NFL security that he only walked to the field.

 

Page 16:

 

"When interviewed, McNally claimed, among other things, that he brings game

balls to the field when he deems fit, that he generally does not receive permission from or inform

the game officials before leaving the Officials Locker Room and taking game balls to the field

and that he often has taken game balls into the tunnel bathroom near the entrance to the playing

field. We do not find these claims plausible and they were contradicted by other evidence

developed during the investigation."

 

McNally's story was not adding up, so the patriots refused for any follow-up interviews.

 

Page 20:

 

"The Patriots provided cooperation throughout the investigation, including by

making personnel and information available to us upon request. Counsel for the Patriots,

however, refused to make Jim McNally available for a follow-up interview requested by our

investigative team on what we believed were important topics, despite our offer to meet at any

time and location that would be convenient for McNally. Counsel for the Patriots apparently

refused even to inform McNally of our request. We believe the failure by the Patriots and its

counsel to produce McNally for the requested follow-up interview violated the club‟s obligations

to cooperate with the investigation under the Policy on Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of

League Rules and was inconsistent with public statements made by the Patriots pledging full

cooperation with the investigation."

[PrincetonTiger]

Have you read my posts? I am not talking about the league. They can do whatever they want and I expect a harsh ruling BUT Brady plans on going to court with this and the "preponderance of evidence" the league is using is based on the Wells report which is full of holes. I believe any type of suspension the league hands out will be over turned when this goes to court as that is Brady's plan if they try to suspend him.

If he does that he might win the battle but lose the war

Every Professional Sports League are based on image and will punish anyone who they think is breaking any rule

[BlueShoe]

I don't think there's much denying that part...but how does that prove that Brady is involved and worthy of a suspension?

 

Read it. Any rational person will be more than convinced that brady was involved. Rational people will even take it further and conclude that this has been going on for a very long time. 

[Swan Ronson]

Nobody is bringing anything to court. Don't be daft.

[dw49]

I don't care about the league. They can go ahead and hand out 10 games to Brady. He will take them to court and not only win but embarrass them when his legal teams tears that report apart ...

 

 

Not going to happen. Tom Brady will appeal the ruling if it involves a suspension. He will not go to court unless he's innocent as it will come out that he's most likely guilty if it's the case. For him to win , a whole lot of people will have to lie under oath. Can Kraft buy them all off ? Maybe but not even that would insure a win in the public's eyes. And that is what this is all about. It would be very damaging to the league and or also very damaging to Brady .

 

Bottom line is if he's guilty , he will keep acting like he has. Hide behind Kraft , daddy and attorney. Just like what you saw a couple nights ago. He will "digest" the report and will not come out with a complete and crystal clear denial because he did it. 

 

Bottom .. bottom line. No court case . The NLF will convey to Kraft that they had better just accept the penalty and this is just what NE and Brady will do. Reason... a report that NE and fans don't like doesn't change the fact that he did it. 

[dw49]

Have you read my posts? I am not talking about the league. They can do whatever they want and I expect a harsh ruling BUT Brady plans on going to court with this and the "preponderance of evidence" the league is using is based on the Wells report which is full of holes. I believe any type of suspension the league hands out will be over turned when this goes to court as that is Brady's plan if they try to suspend him.

 

Do you have a source that Brady is planning on taking this to court if suspended ? I find that really interesting and would love to see if it's anything more than what I would suspect. That being his attorney or daddy being blowhards.

 

 

Here's one attorneys view of a potential lawsuit....

 

The league & Wells worded the report very carefully so not to provoke a defamation suit. That's why the word "probably" is in the report a billion times. If TB sued on the report's contents, they'd argue that it was speculative in nature and not intentionally condemning.

Now, with that said if they attempt to suspend him, that is a statement which condemns TB12 publicly. Brady can then argue that a suspension without cause or proof damages his reputation and earnings (salary endorsements, etc) and then look to seek punitive damages.

[amfootball]

Not going to happen. Tom Brady will appeal the ruling if it involves a suspension. He will not go to court unless he's innocent as it will come out that he's most likely guilty if it's the case. For him to win , a whole lot of people will have to lie under oath. Can Kraft buy them all off ? Maybe but not even that would insure a win in the public's eyes. And that is what this is all about. It would be very damaging to the league and or also very damaging to Brady .

 

Bottom line is if he's guilty , he will keep acting like he has. Hide behind Kraft , daddy and attorney. Just like what you saw a couple nights ago. He will "digest" the report and will not come out with a complete and crystal clear denial because he did it. 

 

Bottom .. bottom line. No court case . The NLF will convey to Kraft that they had better just accept the penalty and this is just what NE and Brady will do. Reason... a report that NE and fans don't like doesn't change the fact that he did it. 

Good points but Brady has maintained his innocence throughout. I don't expect that to change and if the Wells report is the extent of what they have then they have nothing that would prevent him from going legal.

 

Now from a brand perspective, let's think this through. If Brady quietly accepts a suspension and only appeals than he admits guilt. No way he does that and that is what Yee was conveying . Once he stood up and did that presser back in January he can't go back and not look worse. And remember this, he will be 38 this summer, he just won his fourth Lombardi, he has nothing left to prove. He has been a great ambassador for this league and its greatest champion. He has nothing to lose in an ugly court litigation but everything to gain in terms of blasting a report that is casting aspersions against his character with no proof as it admits in its summary. How far will he go? I don't know but Yee was not pulling any punches this week so suffice to say Brady is not playing around with this.

[ruksak]

I think what some in this thread are trying to articulate is that even in a court of law, circumstantial evidence can be enough to convict. People have been sent to death row solely on the back of circumstantial evidence. 

 

Tom has been buried underneath a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence. There is noting substantial whatsoever to counter the report. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Good points but Brady has maintained his innocence throughout. I don't expect that to change and if the Wells report is the extent of what they have then they have nothing that would prevent him from going legal.

 

Now from a brand perspective, let's think this through. If Brady quietly accepts a suspension and only appeals than he admits guilt. No way he does that and that is what Yee was conveying . Once he stood up and did that presser back in January he can't go back and not look worse. And remember this, he will be 38 this summer, he just won his fourth Lombardi, he has nothing left to prove. He has been a great ambassador for this league and its greatest champion. He has nothing to lose in an ugly court litigation but everything to gain in terms of blasting a report that is casting aspersions against his character with no proof as it admits in its summary. How far will he go? I don't know but Yee was not pulling any punches this week so suffice to say Brady is not playing around with this.

that doesn't mean the court will hear any arguments

Once you get out of NE TB's image changes greatly

[PrincetonTiger]

I think what some in this thread are trying to articulate is that even in a court of law, circumstantial evidence can be enough to convict. People have been sent to death row solely on the back of circumstantial evidence. 

 

Tom has been buried underneath a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence. There is noting substantial whatsoever to counter the report.

Nicely put

[amfootball]

Do you have a source that Brady is planning on taking this to court if suspended ? I find that really interesting and would love to see if it's anything more than what I would suspect. That being his attorney or daddy being blowhards.

 

 

Here's one attorneys view of a potential lawsuit....

 

The league & Wells worded the report very carefully so not to provoke a defamation suit. That's why the word "probably" is in the report a billion times. If TB sued on the report's contents, they'd argue that it was speculative in nature and not intentionally condemning.

Now, with that said if they attempt to suspend him, that is a statement which condemns TB12 publicly. Brady can then argue that a suspension without cause or proof damages his reputation and earnings (salary endorsements, etc) and then look to seek punitive damages.

Yes that is the thinking. And that is why I believe the league leaked the story about a suspension coming to gauge response and then backpedaled on it when Aiello came out yesterday and said the league has not determined punishment and the Daily News headline was misleading.

 

This is fascinating. Roger yet again has put himself between a rock and a head place with this ridiculous investigation and its results. No matter which he goes he will look either too lenient or too harsh and he is messing with his league's biggest superstar and recent champion. Honestly, from a marketing stand point, this was just so dumb on behalf of the league. So dumb after coming off the horrible season it had with Rice, Peterson and Hardy and now this capper with Brady and ball pressure. It is surreal that it has gotten this far and they will continue to look bad no matter what they do.

[amfootball]

that doesn't mean the court will hear any arguments

Once you get out of NE TB's image changes greatly

Are you kidding? Brady taking the league to court would be bigger than the baseball Congressional hearings for steroids. Courts would be bidding to take the case for the pub alone.

[Swan Ronson]

It would just make this whole scenario even more ridiculous if Brady did take it to court. You had someone let a little bit of air out of the footballs, Tom. It's not a huge deal, just take your medicine and everyone can move on. It would have been nothing more than a footnote. This whole song and dance being made of denying it, wheeling out his father, agent and lawyer to plead his innocence is just silly and it making it a way bigger deal than it should have been. Bringing it to court would just be the icing on the cake of nonsense.

[BlueShoe]

Are you kidding? Brady taking the league to court would be bigger than the baseball Congressional hearings for steroids. Courts would be bidding to take the case for the pub alone.

 

I doubt brady is that stupid.

 

On the other hand, how awesome would it be if he actually pulled a stunt like that? If he pulls a Pete Rose then his career is over. He will go down as the most tarnished NFL quarterback of all time. 

[wig]

Hey there dw,

I am not sure what is hard to understand here. I think the Pats ball guys did something to those balls. I have said this from the beginning. I do not think Brady told them to deflate below 12.5. I think the Jets games texts prove that and if anything McNally fearing Brady would be upset again if Walt inflated his footballs up to 16 again took it upon himself to deflate. That is wrong and should be punished but Brady's involvement here is very questionable at best. And as I have been saying over and over this Wells report is a pile of poop. Have you read it yet? We talked back in January how hard it is to prove tampering and the report did a bang up of job of proving referee negligence and incompetence over anything the Pats did.

Please explain the gifts. You talked about steroids earlier. This would be like a player using and then paying someone off to manipulate the tests. TOTALLY different.

[ruksak]

It would just make this whole scenario even more ridiculous if Brady did take it to court. You had someone let a little bit of air out of the footballs, Tom. It's not a huge deal, just take your medicine and everyone can move on. It would have been nothing more than a footnote. This whole song and dance being made of denying it, wheeling out his father, agent and lawyer to plead his innocence is just silly and it making it a way bigger deal than it should have been. Bringing it to court would just be the icing on the cake of nonsense.

It's too late now. The tangled web we weave etc etc. 

 

I'm with you 100%. I would fully admonish Brady for this silly deflategate thing, it's not that big of a deal. He could've come right out and even tried to minimize it by saying he didn't think it was that big of a deal.....so long as he admitted his role. 

 

Instead, he has now had 2 opportunities to publicly admit this and not lie, but he lied, poorly.  

 

Bill Clinton did the same thing....as President of the United States. The American people weren't mad that he had sex with an intern. We were mad because he got on TV and lied to every American, only to have to back off of his lie and finally admit it. By then, it's too late. 

[BlueShoe]

It would just make this whole scenario even more ridiculous if Brady did take it to court. You had someone let a little bit of air out of the footballs, Tom. It's not a huge deal, just take your medicine and everyone can move on. It would have been nothing more than a footnote. This whole song and dance being made of denying it, wheeling out his father, agent and lawyer to plead his innocence is just silly and it making it a way bigger deal than it should have been. Bringing it to court would just be the icing on the cake of nonsense.

 

I disagree. It was a big deal before the denial.

 

You should really read the Wells Report.

 

The Wells Report for all intent and purposes was strictly intended to describe the events that took place the night of January 18, 1015. However, the information gathered brought to light a more troubling situation, and had Ted Wells been paid to conduct a study based on the entire season then this report would be very interesting.

 

The ball deflating, cheating, has been going on for a very long time, and possibly dates back to 2006.

 

The fact that brady lied about it only makes it worse. We are reaching Pete Rose levels when you add in the lies.

[BlueShoe]

Roger yet again has put himself between a rock and a head place with this ridiculous investigation and its results.

The only thing ridiculous about the Wells Report is that it was only intended to explain the night of January 18, 2015. This investigation should have focused on a much larger scale, and over a longer period of time. There is strong enough evidence to immediately begin follow-up cases and find more dirt.

[csmopar]

So we will never know (because the report gave no proof) but we are all calling for a suspension (even though the report gave no proof)?

See what I did there? I'm sorry but for you guys to try to paint us as horrible homers who ignore facts, I mean really? If the report was definitive and proved Brady's guilt, no Patriots fan would be questioning it. But the report didn't, yet the majority of you are calling us out as blind homers for having the audacity to not lambaste our guy for something that is nothing more than speculation. Even the harshest critic can't deny that there are legitimate reasons why Patriots fans feel like this whole situation is crazy. It just doesn't make sense that someone could be suspended for assumed guilt.

Actually we will know If it goes to court. Because wireless carriers are required to keep records for a certain amount of time. They will show everything, every word. Not just the ones on Brady's phone but emails will be subpoenaed, phone records, bank accounts to see if he paid them as said.

Honestly, Tom would serve him and Patriots best if he takes what ever punishment and complies without a legal fight. Otherwise, it'll be ugly

[NewColtsFan]

Have you read my posts? I am not talking about the league. They can do whatever they want and I expect a harsh ruling BUT Brady plans on going to court with this and the "preponderance of evidence" the league is using is based on the Wells report which is full of holes. I believe any type of suspension the league hands out will be over turned when this goes to court as that is Brady's plan if they try to suspend him.

 

The court might do something....   but don't hold your breath.

 

Most courts are reluctant to get involved when there's an agreement between the league and it's union,  and that what we're talking about.     It's already settled.    That's how Goodell has been able to discipline guys without them having been found guilty in a regular court of law.      You know,   your post this morning...  (Lol, Vilma was not criminal. He was suing for defamation. And neither Peterson or Rice were ever convicted of anything ...)    

 

Those are YOUR WORDS,  not mine.     The question isn't whether I'VE read your posts,  the question is have YOU read them?

 

I notice you often don't respond to my posts in this thread.    I take that as a compliment.    That I've made an argument so inarguable that you just don't even try to respond.       

 

But,  we'll all have a better idea about this in a few days....   seems like the hammer gets dropped this coming week.

[BlueShoe]

So we will never know (because the report gave no proof) but we are all calling for a suspension (even though the report gave no proof)?

See what I did there? I'm sorry but for you guys to try to paint us as horrible homers who ignore facts, I mean really? If the report was definitive and proved Brady's guilt, no Patriots fan would be questioning it. But the report didn't, yet the majority of you are calling us out as blind homers for having the audacity to not lambaste our guy for something that is nothing more than speculation. Even the harshest critic can't deny that there are legitimate reasons why Patriots fans feel like this whole situation is crazy. It just doesn't make sense that someone could be suspended for assumed guilt.

 

You're kidding right?

 

Read the Wells Report. There is more than enough damaging evidence. Even your boy Skip Bayless (brady's lead cheerleader) knows brady is guilty.

[ponyboy]

The only thing ridiculous about the Wells Report is that it was only intended to explain the night of January 18, 2015. This investigation should have focused on a much larger scale, and over a longer period of time. There is strong enough evidence to immediately begin follow-up cases and find more dirt.

 

This is not an accident.  The NFL wants to minimize this as much as the NE PR spinsters.  If they can keep it scoped to the AFCC game they can claim it didn't effect the outcome and not loose too much integrity.  They hope this dies down now so they can pretend it hasn't been happening long term where the advantage may well have decided games and cast doubt over the integrity of the game.  There will be lots of effort by NFL and NE spinsters to keep the focus on the AFCC game.

[dynasty13]

You're kidding right?

Read the Wells Report. There is more than enough damaging evidence. Even your boy Skip Bayless (brady's lead cheerleader) knows brady is guilty.

You mean even Skip Bayless BELIEVES Brady is guilty. It's funny how everyone thinks he's an * and never believes a thing he says...except this time.

Look, I'm not saying Brady is innocent...I'm saying the way this whole thing was handled was rediculous and he should not be suspended. In every other case that people have referenced as some sort of precedent, there was either some legitimate proof or some kind of admission. This case is unique because there is neither...just assumption.

[ponyboy]

Look, I'm not saying Brady is innocent...I'm saying the way this whole thing was handled was rediculous and he should not be suspended. In every other case that people have referenced as some sort of precedent, there was either some legitimate proof or some kind of admission. This case is unique because there is neither...just assumption.

 

You mean like Greg Hardy?

[C0lts088]

How is that clear? because he took a pee? You realize that is not evidence of anything?

All Anderson had to do when he lost track of the balls (yet more incompetence) was to remove them from the game and make the Pats play with their reserve balls. Then they have the missing balls can take their time and gauge them and if underinflated punish Pats on Jan. 19. That is what should have happened but apparently Walt had no issue letting those balls into a title game for a whole half and also let the Colts play with underinflated balls for the second half as he did not remove their balls even though they came in at under 12.5 psi.

I guess asking for some footballs to be autographed, and shoes to be given to him with a "NEEDLE" isn't proof enough.....

[dynasty13]

You mean like Greg Hardy?

Admittedly I don't know all the ins and outs of that situation...but wasn't he found guilty and then there was a settlement?

Plus with the hardened stance about domestic abuse, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison when you compare a guy that was found guilty of threatening to kill someone and who has gotten into altercations with teammates about it, and skmetime who has been an outstanding citizen and the face of the league for over a decade.

[BlueShoe]

You mean even Skip Bayless BELIEVES Brady is guilty. It's funny how everyone thinks he's an * and never believes a thing he says...except this time.

Look, I'm not saying Brady is innocent...I'm saying the way this whole thing was handled was rediculous and he should not be suspended. In every other case that people have referenced as some sort of precedent, there was either some legitimate proof or some kind of admission. This case is unique because there is neither...just assumption.

 

Bayless is not a likable person. Most people agree on that. Bayless is brady's biggest cheerleader, and he believes the evidence overwhelmingly proves that brady is guilty. The investigation should have actually gone further than just the night of January 18, 2015. The Wells Report proves there is more to this story. I believe the NFL should go all the way back to 2006, and start from there. 

 

The investigation (as asked to carry out) was handled well, but you (along with Boston) want to shed doubt on the process. It's sad that you prefer cheating to win over honesty and integrity.

[OffensivelyPC]

I don't care about the league. They can go ahead and hand out 10 games to Brady. He will take them to court and not only win but embarrass them when his legal teams tears that report apart ...

lol no. He won't take them to court at all. There's literally no cause of action that has a winning chance. he will only open up all the stuff he kept private. Oh and by the way, if he doesn't sue, it's pretty much an admission that he got caught redhanded. He loses either way...and it's because he cheated and lied about itm

[BlueShoe]

I guess asking for some footballs to be autographed, and shoes to be given to him with a "NEEDLE" isn't proof enough.....

 

If Ted Wells found video of brady (himself) sneaking into the bathroom and deflating the balls, patriots fans would argue it was a double and not really brady.

[BlueShoe]

lol no. He won't take them to court at all. There's literally no cause of action that has a winning chance. he will only open up all the stuff he kept private. Oh and by the way, if he doesn't sue, it's pretty much an admission that he got caught redhanded. He loses either way...and it's because he cheated and lied about itm

 

Absolutely correct.

 

I hope he does take it further, because I want answers about the other games. I want to know how long this has been going on.

[OffensivelyPC]

Absolutely correct.

I hope he does take it further, because I want answers about the other games. I want to know how long this has been going on.

rest assured, that would all become public information if he did.

[BlueShoe]

rest assured, that would all become public information if he did.

 

I agree. That's why I hope brady is stupid enough to sue the NFL.