Dorsetts ready to work

[ColtsLegacy]

One thing Colts fan needs to realize about this guy. This guy can catch. Bleacher Report said Dorsett drop one pass last year. Mr. Ryan drafted a game changer. With that speed, quickness, and hands. It will be very hard to keep him off the field. Let me say it again, he dropped one pass last year.

That's one too many!

[JR Indy]

That's one too many!

My bad I was grading him on a curve when I thought of all the drop passes from Coby Flenner, and H. Nicky last year

[RomanianColtsFan]

I hope nobody gets to sing Grigson's praises for picking Dorsett when Colts lose TY or Moncrief to injury.

[VaAllDay757]

I did some research on dorsett and I didn't know him and duron carter played together at the same high school now they're teammates again

[MrNLM]

Exactly. Because a guy drafted by another team who shows well would be just as good if not better with us.

 

Really!? In that case, Belichick should be fired for passing on that one guy who played really well for that one team that drafted AFTER they did.

 

Problem solved.

[NewColtsFan]

It's ridiculous to think that sitting at pick 29 overall that Dorsett was the only good player available.

 

The Packers one of the best drafting teams in the league took a safety (a huge need for the colts) at 30.  Pats took DL at 32.

 

I think Grigson should be judged based on those guy's careers because they where obvious picks at positions of need.  If those guys bust then fine Grigs can stay.  If those guys are good players he should be fired.  

 

Should be fired anyways because if Dorsett is the only guy left you have a first round grade on and you def don't need a WR. . . TRADE DOWN! 

 

This straight BPA without considering if the pick makes sense is stupid.  Might as well draft a quarterback in the first round.  

 

I think your premise breaks down in the very first sentence.

 

No one said, or suggested, or even hinted that there was no other good players available.

 

I'm sure there were a number of players who were ranked in the Colts top-32.     But Dorsett, according to Colts sources was ranked in the teens on the Colts' board.     In other words,  he was ranked far higher than anyone else.    It wasn't close.

 

So, at that point,   since he wasn't just ranked a little bit higher,  but a lot higher,  you take the much ranked player.

 

And, as I've noted in a number of posts/threads,  I'm saying that as someone who've drafted Eddie Goldman.

 

Grigson did exactly what he said he'd do in his pre-draft press conference.   He actually said if there was someone on his board ranked much higher than anyone else,  even if that player was at a position that wasn't a need -- he would draft that person.

 

I won't slam Grigson for doing exactly what he said he'd do....    even if I'm not wild about the pick.

[braveheartcolt]

I repeat, it was a position of need.

#vii_points

[jskinnz]

I repeat, it was a position of need.

#vii_points

 

No it wasn't.  They have future Hall of Famers in Moncrief and Carter.  They were stacked at the position.

[jskinnz]

It's ridiculous to think that sitting at pick 29 overall that Dorsett was the only good player available.

 

The Packers one of the best drafting teams in the league took a safety (a huge need for the colts) at 30.  Pats took DL at 32.

 

I think Grigson should be judged based on those guy's careers because they where obvious picks at positions of need.  If those guys bust then fine Grigs can stay.  If those guys are good players he should be fired.  

 

Should be fired anyways because if Dorsett is the only guy left you have a first round grade on and you def don't need a WR. . . TRADE DOWN! 

 

This straight BPA without considering if the pick makes sense is stupid.  Might as well draft a quarterback in the first round.  

 

That is an unbelievably bad post.

 

Not a single person has or would suggest that Dorsett was the only good player.  It is just simply clear that the way the Colts had the draft graded that Dorsett had a significantly higher grade than anyone else.  

 

The firing nonsense just makes you sound silly.  

[NewEra]

Fastest guy on the team. With good route running and hands. Faster than Marvin was.

[braveheartcolt]

No it wasn't. They have future Hall of Famers in Moncrief and Carter. They were stacked at the position.

Oops. I'm a fool. What do us Brits know about football, eh?

[Valpo2004]

We put up SEVEN points in the AFCCG. 7. Se7en.

Stick to your opinion, but please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting all is rosy with our Offense.

 

Colts offense was one of the best in football.  And against the Pats we where gaining 5 YPC via the running game because they sold out against the pass.

 

And it worked too because we got so far down so quickly thanks to the defense that Luck had no choice but to throw into 8 man coverages when it would have made more sense to hand the ball off.

 

Had the defense not given up so many points, Boom could have had a 100 yard game or at least draw the defense in until Luck can find throwing room again.

[AntonMcG]

You must understand. . . very few people think he'll be a bad player.  Our issue with the pick is that he's not going to see the field much in the near future barring injury.  

 

He's not going to pass up TY or Andre Johnson on the depth chart this year.  He's going to have a hard time passing Moncrief because Moncrief has a year on him which is huge.  

 

So essentially you are spending a first round pick on a man who's going to be #4 on our WR depth chart for about 2 years.  That's bad when you consider that because we have both Fleener and Allen we use our TE's heavy so our #3 WR doesn't get as much playing time as he would on another team.

 

Guy may be a great player but presuming we re-sign TY it's going to be a couple years before he gets on the field a lot.  (Barring injury)

 

While a lot of other picks at other positions could have started right away.  You could have gone OL and started right away at RG and maybe a guy who can transition to RT.  You could have gone DL and started right away there.  Safety and started right away there.  CB and started in a year.  (Toler's contract is about to run out).  RB and rotated heavily with Gore for a year or 2 before being the top guy.  (I say that and I'm generally opposed to RB's in the first round.)

 

But with this guy you can only fit 11 total guys on the field.  5 are OL, 1 is your QB, and then the remaining 5 can vary between TE, WR, and RB.  Usually you have at least one TE on the field and an RB, especially if one of those TE's is your team's #3 leading receiver.  

 

You do realise there is another NFL season in 2016, and who knows, maybe another the year after that.

[Swan Ronson]

You do realise there is another NFL season in 2016, and who knows, maybe another the year after that.

Not entirely true. The minute Malcolm Brown makes a tackle the whole Colts organisation is being disbanded.

[Valpo2004]

Wow!  Really?  Fire the GM who has help lead the Colts to 3 straight seasons to an 11-5 record and has advanced in playoffs each year?  The Colts have had injuries that have hurt the Colts the last few years (Cherilus, Ballard, D. Allen, Mathis to name a few).  I dare say if some of those players were healthy, the Colts may (I said may) have gone further in the playoffs.  Imagine having Mathis chasing down Brady, imagine if Ballard didn't get hurt then the Richardson trade (everyone loved it before Richardson failed to succeed) wouldn't have been necessary.  These are just some examples of things that have tripped up the Colts' success.  Unless ANY of you complainers have worked for an NFL franchise or some other type of experience building a team (fantasy leagues don't count), you should put your trust in the team you profess to love.  I'm not saying you can't be upset that they didn't draft the players you wanted, but to call for someone to be fired crosses a line of fandom to extreme fanaticism.  The draft didn't go the way I wanted either, but I trust the Colts FO until such time they don't field a successful team and/or has a bunch of felons running around.

 

End of my rant.

 

That's ridiculous. . . Just because we havn't worked in a specific field doesn't mean we can't see and recognize a bad job when we see one.  

 

I've never been a professional construction worker but if I see a house with the shingles falling off and the roof collapsing and it was just built 2 weeks ago, I would say the construction people did a bad job.

 

You don't have to be a pro at something to recognize when someone else has done a bad job.  Nor is recognizing a bad job the same as thumping your chest and saying "I could do better".  It's recognizing that the product should be far superior to that which you are seeing.

 

So here is some information on which I base this.  Thus far Grigson has had 4 1st round draft picks.

 

2012 -> Andrew Luck - This was a good pick but it was also an obvious pick.  A bum off the street could have made this pick. 

2013-> Bjorn Werner - Bust hasn't done anything.

2014-> Traded for Trent Richardson - Epic bust, a bust so bad that he will be remembered alongside Ryan Leaf and Tony Manderich

2015-> Phillip Dorsett - A WR who will either ride the bench for 2 years barring injury, displace a better receiver above him, or send TY, the best receiver Andrew Luck has had packing in FA.  All of this while the Colts had needs at every single position other then WR, TE and QB.  So he overloads at WR rather then taking any position of need seeming how we had needs everywhere but WR, TE, and QB or taking one of the trade down offers on the table.

 

Werner starts playing good or Dorsett legitimately beats out Moncrief then I'm open to changing my opinion.  But my opinion has turned against him.  We're making the playoffs off the weakness of our division and the strength of our obvious QB pick in 2012.  Other then that the GM has not improved the team to the level that should be expected and has blown every first round pick he's ever had after the 2012 pick.

[Valpo2004]

You do realise there is another NFL season in 2016, and who knows, maybe another the year after that.

 

And how many first round picks should we let Grigson blow before we figure out that this is a habit?

[Jason_]

That's ridiculous. . . Just because we havn't worked in a specific field doesn't mean we can't see and recognize a bad job when we see one.  

 

I've never been a professional construction worker but if I see a house with the shingles falling off and the roof collapsing and it was just built 2 weeks ago, I would say the construction people did a bad job.

 

Yet we have seen nothing that could be even somewhat construed as the shingles fall off and the roof collapsing on the Colts. 

 

2012 -> Andrew Luck - This was a good pick but it was also an obvious pick.  A bum off the street could have made this pick. 

2013-> Bjorn Werner - Bust hasn't done anything.

2014-> Traded for Trent Richardson - Epic bust, a bust so bad that he will be remembered alongside Ryan Leaf and Tony Manderich

2015-> Phillip Dorsett - A WR who will either ride the bench for 2 years barring injury, displace a better receiver above him, or send TY, the best receiver Andrew Luck has had packing in FA.  All of this while the Colts had needs at every single position other then WR, TE and QB.  So he overloads at WR rather then taking any position of need seeming how we had needs everywhere but WR, TE, and QB or taking one of the trade down offers on the table.

 

 

Werner is still only in his 3rd year...still room to improve.  Dorsett hasn't even taken a single snap yet.  Trich sucked, that was a blown pick but so far that's the only one that can be conclusively defined as a wasted pick.  Also, do you know that there were offers on the table for a trade down scenario?

 

 

Werner starts playing good or Dorsett legitimately beats out Moncrief then I'm open to changing my opinion.

 

 

So in other words you've formed your opinion now with incomplete information.  Got it.

 

Other then that the GM has not improved the team to the level that should be expected

 

 

Perhaps your expectations are wildly unrealistic?  And before you say "maybe YOUR expectations are too low" just know that....it's the former and not the latter.

 

 

and has blown every first round pick he's ever had after the 2012 pick.

 

That is simply not true and it's ridiculously stupid to try to state that as a fact at this point in time since, you yourself said, we have no idea how Werner or Dorsett will ultimately turn out. 

[Jason_]

And how many first round picks should we let Grigson blow before we figure out that this is a habit?

 

How about we make absolutely sure he's even blown 2?

[Valpo2004]

How about we make absolutely sure he's even blown 2?

 

If you think Werner's suddenly going to take off and be a good player I think you are wrong.  I hope you are right, I would love for that to happen, but given every opportunity and showing nothing for 2 years, I just don't see him suddenly becoming a good player now.

[Jason_]

If you think Werner's suddenly going to take off and be a good player I think you are wrong.  I hope you are right, I would love for that to happen, but given every opportunity and showing nothing for 2 years, I just don't see him suddenly becoming a good player now.

 

that's great...my point was that at this time we don't know one way or another.  He did improve from year 1 to year 2 and was showing improvement through the first half or so of year 2.  He's getting ready to go into year 3, which is a big year for most players.  He very well could continue to improve, or maybe he's hit his ceiling already.  Either way, that's the point...we don't know yet so calling him a wasted pick is ridiculous. 

[AntonMcG]

And how many first round picks should we let Grigson blow before we figure out that this is a habit?

 

I think you missed my point...

 

The reason to draft BPA is because you are drafting a player to play for 10 years, to potentially be a building block of a dynasty. Not to come in and fill a need right away, which rookies rarely do.

[ColtsLegacy]

Methinks Valpo has been sipping from TKnight's Apple juice.

[Peterk2011]

 

2015-> Phillip Dorsett - A WR who will either ride the bench for 2 years barring injury, displace a better receiver above him, or send TY, the best receiver Andrew Luck has had packing in FA.  All of this while the Colts had needs at every single position other then WR, TE and QB.  So he overloads at WR rather then taking any position of need seeming how we had needs everywhere but WR, TE, and QB or taking one of the trade down offers on the table.

 

Well, Dorsett won't be benched for 2 years - barring injury or not. Btw, the Colts did have injuries in WR position in recent years, so it's not something highly unlikely.

 

Grigson's job is to build a winning roster. In long term, He can do it by drafting a player like Dorsett and not to pay 10+ million to T.Y. from next year, but bring in an above average pass rusher or defensive lineman or an elite safety in FA. OR, he can do it by directly drafting a (future) good pass rusher, defensive limeman or a (future) elite safety. Doesn't matter which way he goes, what matters is only the outcome.

 

So it's a game of odds, you choose the way which you feel gives you better chance of success. I don't know Grigson's board obviously, but on my board, the only players who were available at 1/29 and were equal or better chance than Dorsett to become (at least) an above average NFL player, were Malcolm Brown and Eddie Goldman. The others - Mario Edwards, Preston Smith. Green-Beckham. Perrymen, Kendricks, Collins, etc. - had either much lower ceilings, or have high ceilings, but very risky players. Brown and Goldman will probably be good, but both are 3tech guys, not 5tech. And they do not seem to be THAT good that I'd say it'd definitelly worth the risk to try to convert them.

 

So given the circumstances, I'm leaning toward, that if a trade-down was not available (or the offers were bad), then it's not a bad thing to take a guy like Dorsett and try to develop him a rich man's Hilton.

[indyman411]

That's ridiculous. . . Just because we havn't worked in a specific field doesn't mean we can't see and recognize a bad job when we see one.  

 

I've never been a professional construction worker but if I see a house with the shingles falling off and the roof collapsing and it was just built 2 weeks ago, I would say the construction people did a bad job.

 

You don't have to be a pro at something to recognize when someone else has done a bad job.  Nor is recognizing a bad job the same as thumping your chest and saying "I could do better".  It's recognizing that the product should be far superior to that which you are seeing.

 

So here is some information on which I base this.  Thus far Grigson has had 4 1st round draft picks.

 

2012 -> Andrew Luck - This was a good pick but it was also an obvious pick.  A bum off the street could have made this pick. 

2013-> Bjorn Werner - Bust hasn't done anything.

2014-> Traded for Trent Richardson - Epic bust, a bust so bad that he will be remembered alongside Ryan Leaf and Tony Manderich

2015-> Phillip Dorsett - A WR who will either ride the bench for 2 years barring injury, displace a better receiver above him, or send TY, the best receiver Andrew Luck has had packing in FA.  All of this while the Colts had needs at every single position other then WR, TE and QB.  So he overloads at WR rather then taking any position of need seeming how we had needs everywhere but WR, TE, and QB or taking one of the trade down offers on the table.

 

Werner starts playing good or Dorsett legitimately beats out Moncrief then I'm open to changing my opinion.  But my opinion has turned against him.  We're making the playoffs off the weakness of our division and the strength of our obvious QB pick in 2012.  Other then that the GM has not improved the team to the level that should be expected and has blown every first round pick he's ever had after the 2012 pick.

 

This is the part I think you are getting it wrong.  3 straight years @ 11-5 is doing a great job, can you name other teams that have had a record like that?  (It's a very short list, other teams would kill to have that success).  My whole problem with your premise is you assuming Grigson has drafted badly by picking Dorsett when we don't know how the team will be constituted this upcoming season.  I agree that Werner hasn't lived up to expectations, but he is a productive player.  The Richardson trade was well received at the time of the trade until he proved he wasn't up to the job.  You are welcome to your opinion, I'm not trying to change that, just wanted to pointed out the idiocy of suggesting Grigson be fired because you don't like his picks while the team is one of the top teams in the NFL.

[BluHorzhu]

It's ridiculous to think that sitting at pick 29 overall that Dorsett was the only good player available.

 

The Packers one of the best drafting teams in the league took a safety (a huge need for the colts) at 30.  Pats took DL at 32.

 

I think Grigson should be judged based on those guy's careers because they where obvious picks at positions of need.  If those guys bust then fine Grigs can stay.  If those guys are good players he should be fired.  

 

Should be fired anyways because if Dorsett is the only guy left you have a first round grade on and you def don't need a WR. . . TRADE DOWN! 

 

This straight BPA without considering if the pick makes sense is stupid.  Might as well draft a quarterback in the first round.  

 

 

How about some cheese with that whine?  You've already made up your mind about the pick and are simply using up forum space to                                  

The Pats had to take Malcolm Brown because the omnipotent hoodie straight up whiffed on Dominic Easley last year.  Let the players play and then comment when the PROFESSIONALS who made their draft choices see the fruits of their labors come December.  Done.

[texascolt]

Those complaining about Werner being a bust with the 26th pick, should  look at how many 1st, 2nd picks have been a bust.

[krunk]

We're going to have a higher Upgraded version this year of what we had when we had with T.Y., Donnie Avery and Lavon Brazil. That's actually when we scored the most points on the Pats when we had a bunch of burners on the field and the running game was working with Vick Ballard.  Arians just had us throwing too much in that game and Luck started turning the ball over.  Excited to see what happens with T.Y., Dorsett, Moncrief, and Andre Johnson.  Pounding the ball with Gore and Robinson

[throwing BBZ]

were you in the war room with him to know that he didn't try to trade down?

 

 No. Irsay did say they had an offer but they liked Dorsett.

[throwing BBZ]

Those complaining about Werner being a bust with the 26th pick, should  look at how many 1st, 2nd picks have been a bust.

 

 The Clueless.

 And Werner is coming along Nicely.

2012 draft stinkos

pick #

2 RG3

3 TRich

4 M Kalil good in yr 1, not so since

5 Justin Blackmon

6 M Claiborne

7 M Barron

 plenty more dinks on down in this draft

[CanuckColt]

It is probable that Dorsett's impact will not be felt this year, while he learns the offense...production will come next year.

[throwing BBZ]

 Depends if Andrew over targets him.

[LockeDown]

In year 4, Luck should begin to really understand when to throw, where to throw, when to run and when to throw the ball away.  I really hope that having Gore in the backfield for pass blocking will allow Luck that extra second or 2 to see the field and make the correct decision most of the time.  If that happens, we will look like a different team, imo.  Oh, yeah...and being able to run the ball.  That would be nice.

[Valpo2004]

This is the part I think you are getting it wrong.  3 straight years @ 11-5 is doing a great job, can you name other teams that have had a record like that?  (It's a very short list, other teams would kill to have that success).  My whole problem with your premise is you assuming Grigson has drafted badly by picking Dorsett when we don't know how the team will be constituted this upcoming season.  I agree that Werner hasn't lived up to expectations, but he is a productive player.  The Richardson trade was well received at the time of the trade until he proved he wasn't up to the job.  You are welcome to your opinion, I'm not trying to change that, just wanted to pointed out the idiocy of suggesting Grigson be fired because you don't like his picks while the team is one of the top teams in the NFL.

 

It's not that I don't like his picks . . . his picks have not lived up to what 1st round picks should be save for Luck who was an obvious pick.  

 

We're 11-5 on the back of Luck.  This is the Manning years all over again.  Everyone thinks the GM is brilliant because the team is winning but when you look at it you see a lot of high picks busting.  

[BleedBlu8792]

It is probable that Dorsett's impact will not be felt this year, while he learns the offense...production will come next year.

By midseason, at the latest, he'll be the #3. His skillset, right now, is already beyond Moncriefs. His speed and hands will have him on the field as quickly as he gets a good portion of the playbook down. Given that he's got 4 months before the start of the season, I expect him to be out there day 1.

[indyman411]

It is probable that Dorsett's impact will not be felt this year, while he learns the offense...production will come next year.

 

I agree with this regarding his contributions on offense, but he'll make his mark on special teams (I believe anyway).  Hopefully, he'll be a better version of Josh Cribbs. 

[ColtsLegacy]

I'm not so much worried about Dorsett being able to contribute as I am Pep using him, and the rest of the weapons, improperly.

[BlueStallion]

Just how do you know that both New England and Green Bay did not covet Dorsett? Maybe they would have stayed him if he was available

 

No idea if the Pats or the Packs were interested in Dorsett, but several draft pundits tweeted that the Texans coveted him and had already swung a deal with the Pats to trade up and get him at pick 32.  The Colts blew up that deal by beating them to the punch.  I scratched my head too when Grigson picked Dorsett, but now that I know Houston wanted him, I'm glad our DBs won't have to try and chase him around the field whenever the Colts play the Texans.  They ended up picking Jaelen Strong in the 3rd round, but he's nowhere near as fast as Dorsett.

[Dustin]

Those complaining about Werner being a bust with the 26th pick, should look at how many 1st, 2nd picks have been a bust.

Just looked at them. Werner is still terrible.

[indyman411]

I went to the website drafthistory.com to compile these lists.  Sorry mods, not trying to promote the site, just giving a reference.

 

 

2015 Phillip Dorsett / D'Joun Smith / Henry Anderson / Clayton Geathers / David Parry / Josh Robinson / Amarlo Herrera / Denzelle Goode

 

2014 Jack Mewhort / Donte Moncrief / Jonathan Newsome / Andrew Jackson / Ulrick John

 

2013 Björn Werner / Hugh Thornton / Khaled Holmes / Montori Hughes / John Boyett / Kerwynn Williams / Justise Cunningham

 

2012 Andrew Luck / Coby Fleener / Dwayne Allen / T.Y. Hilton / Josh Chapman / Vick Ballard / Justin Anderson / Tim Fugger / Chandler Harnish

 

 

Obviously, the jury is out on the 2015 class as far as how it performs, but here are the other 3 drafts under Grigson.  I'll give my opinions and you can give yours.

 

2014-Mewhort, Moncrief and Newsome are productive players.  Jackson was a miss due to off the field problems and the jury is out on John.

 

2013-Werner, Thornton and Hughes are productive players, even if they don't produce like you thought they would.  Holmes, for whatever reason, can't earn the coaches trust so I'd label him a bust for now.  Boyett was a risk that didn't pan out.  Williams was caught up by the numbers at RB and Cunningham same at TE.

 

2012-Luck, Fleener, Allen, T.Y. Hilton and Chapman are starters.   Ballard has been hit by injury bug, but was doing well up till then.

Anderson, Fugger, & Harnish basically had a cup of coffee with the Colts.

 

By my math, the Colts have hit on 12 out of 21 picks to get either starters or good backups.  Of those nine that didn't make it, six of them were drafted in the 6th round or later.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd take those numbers any day of the week.

[indyman411]

 I broke down the Colts picks during the Grigson era based on year, the pick #, and other picks made at same # but different years to compare.  As you'll see, Grigson has hit on his picks fairly well compared to others.  

 

 

Year/Rd #/Pick#

1-29

3-01

3-29

4-10

5-15

6-29

6-31

7-38

2015

Phillip Dorsett

D'Joun Smith

Henry Anderson

Clayton Geathers

David Parry

Josh Robinson

Amarlo Herrera

Denzelle Goode

2014

Dominique Easley

C.J. Fiedorowicz

Brandon Linder

Mo Alexander

Arthur Lynch

Luke Bowanko

Matthew Paradis

Yawin Smallwood

2013

Cordarrelle Patterson

Travis Kelce

Duron Harmon

Brian Schwenke

A.J. Klein

Cobi Hamilton

Theo Riddick

Zeke Motta

2012

Harrison Smith

Dwayne Allen

T. Y. Hilton

Nigel Bradham

Rokevious Watkins

Jason Slowey

Matt McCants

Trevin Wade

2011

Gabe Carimi

Terrell McClain

Chris Conte

Kris Durham

Dejon Gomes

Markell Carter

Keith Williams

David Ausberry

2010

Kyle Wilson

Jerome Murphy

Tony Moeaki

Jacoby Ford

Cam Thomas

David Gettis

Charles Scott

Jameson Konz

2009

Hakeem Nicks

Shonn Greene

Corvey Irvin

Victor Butler

Rhett Bomar

Brandon Myers

Will Davis

Nick Reed

2008

Kentwan Ballmer

Kevin Smith

Cliff Avril

Michael McGlynn

Breno Giacomini

Donald Thomas

Bo Ruud

Lionel Dotson

2007

Ben Grubbs

Quentin Moses

Trent Edwards

Stephen Nicholas

Antonio Johnson

Daren Stone

Jordan Palmer

Keith Jackson