Good call Grigson

[Superman]

Wow, you take pedantic to a whole other level.

 

Ehh, a lot of people liked the player, but were critical of the pick. "WHY DO WE NEED ANOTHER RECEIVER???" "WHY DIDN'T WE DRAFT A SAFETY???" 

 

That's probably true of every pick, though, even the ones that are overwhelmingly popular.

[masterlock]

Yes, he deserves credit for successful talent acquisitions like Hilton, Allen, Mewhort, etc. But let us also not forget that his job isn't to built a partial team, but to build a complete team. I know it's impossible to bat 1.000 for any GM, but i don't think I'll ever get past the Richardson deal, or Pep Hamilton, or 3/4's of the 2013 draft class. I don't see Grigson as a team architect in the way Polian was. Granted, Polian lost his edge in the end, when he turned things over to his son. But there are the visionaries, and there are the journeymen. I'd put Grigson in the latter category--at least so far. Maybe he'll learn and get better. I hope so.

[fatboy]

Going from the disastrous 2-14 season, moving on without Manning and then Garçon bolting, things looked simply awful. My only concern is he seems most familiar with NFC East players he's had first hand experience with. I hope he can continue as the years progress and he has to evaluate without the firsthand knowledge. The reality is Grigson has been the chief architect of a truly remarkable turnaround, and I'm not sure it could have been matched in 100 years.

[esmort]

Overall I like Grigson.  He has done many good things, but has made his share of mistakes as well.  IMO his positives outweigh the negatives, but the positives don't outweigh the negatives by the extreme gap that many are making it out to be. 

[Douzer]

Best thread in a long time!

 

I too agree with those who grade Grigson with high marks. Re-signing Robert Mathis immediately upon his arrival is another A+ move he made.

[YOUR GM]

The jury is still out on whether or not Grigson is a "good" GM, in my opinion. He's done plenty good and he's done plenty bad. I see some are placing all their stock in the win-loss columns more than anything else, and that's fine. Just realize that the Polians were winning with poorly constructed rosters the last few years of their regime as well. Peyton covered up a multitude of sins. Lets not fall into that same trap again with Luck/Grigson/Pagano

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

The jury is still out on whether or not Grigson is a "good" GM, in my opinion. He's done plenty good and he's done plenty bad. I see some are placing all their stock in the win-loss columns more than anything else, and that's fine. Just realize that the Polians were winning with poorly constructed rosters the last few years of their regime as well. Peyton covered up a multitude of sins. Lets not fall into that same trap again with Luck/Grigson/Pagano

Eh, Polian was stubborn and wouldn't stray from his management philosophy where as Grigs

will do whatever it takes to help the team succeed with his relentless searching the dumpsters 

for cheap quality talent.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

1 win over the Jaguars and people go crazy

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

1 win over the Jaguars and people go crazy

It was a route so people are a little amped up.  2-2 after this Sunday. :thmsup:

[shakedownstreet]

with his relentless searching the dumpsters for cheap quality talent.

 

you don't have to tell me! the man woke me up at 6am when i was minding my own business, sleeping in my favorite dumpster behind the gas station at 10th & rural

 

at first i got real defensive because i thought he wanted to steal my chicken bones, but he was all cool about it

[YOUR GM]

Eh, Polian was stubborn and wouldn't stray from his management philosophy where as Grigs

will do whatever it takes to help the team succeed with his relentless searching the dumpsters

for cheap quality talent.

Maybe that IS his philosophy

[ColtJ82]

I think the negatives still out weigh the positives. 

I don't get all the negative criticism of Grigson. It seems people criticize him even though he is doing exactly what people begged for during the Polian area. Grigson takes chances....they don't always work out, but some have worked very well. 

 

In regards to Free Agents.....I know people don't like some of those signings either. However, he was targeting who he thought was the best available at the time and who was willing to come here. People act like every free agent is willing to sign everywhere the money is right. There are other factors that get weighed when a FA is looking to sign with a team. The fanbase is not privy to the behind the scenes conversations.

 

The o-line is coming together nicely. Grigson is being criticized because he didn't make a huge splash along the line in free agency (IE. Alex Mack). Grigson drafted the guys he did for a reason (Thornton, Holmes, Mewhort). At some point, if you believe in those guys, you have to let them develop. Based on Shipleys salary and production, was Mack really going to be worth 10 million per year? 

 

He had a plan and he has tried to stay true to it......hard to argue with the results. He has been fairly conscious of structuring the contracts in a way that will not get us in trouble down the road.

 

Fortunately, we are a spoiled fan base. We cry and moan about 11-5 teams that make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs with a 2nd year QB. It could be a lot worse.......ask any Jaguars, Browns, Raiders, Jets, Rams, Redskins, Lions,................. 

[Nobody]

The Vontae move was such genius and I feel like we as fans don't really think about it as often as we should

[Nobody]

Yes, he deserves credit for successful talent acquisitions like Hilton, Allen, Mewhort, etc. But let us also not forget that his job isn't to built a partial team, but to build a complete team. I know it's impossible to bat 1.000 for any GM, but i don't think I'll ever get past the Richardson deal, or Pep Hamilton, or 3/4's of the 2013 draft class. I don't see Grigson as a team architect in the way Polian was. Granted, Polian lost his edge in the end, when he turned things over to his son. But there are the visionaries, and there are the journeymen. I'd put Grigson in the latter category--at least so far. Maybe he'll learn and get better. I hope so.

the Richardason deal wasnt a win but it's obvious now the kid has a lot of talent and works when the line does its job.

Pep.. Ugh. Man do people's views on Pep annoy me, the guy gets no credit.

And seriously? 2013 draft class?? It's 2014, and you're saying you'll never forgive him for the 2013 draft class? Unless they are all cut or completely obviously busts (neither true) then you can't judge it yet.

[Jason_]

Wow, you take pedantic to a whole other level.

When did it become pedantic to correct someone who made an incorrect statement?

[Narcosys]

Grigson buying low on a great prospect and despite the fact that to this point it hasn't worked as well as we would've hoped, I applaud him for the move

If a first round pick is buying low I'd be terrified to see what would be normal or high

[OLD FAN MAN]

I wasn't really sold on the OL at the start of the season, but they've really proven me wrong.  Like you, I wanted us to invest a lot into the OL and Grigson didn't really do all that much for it this offseason.  However, the OL has performed really well, so you could say he didn't need to do a lot

we will know how good our o-line is when we play the Texans, jj watt will test us. one good game against the jags does not define an o-line, even though I wish it did

[Dustin]

the Richardason deal wasnt a win but it's obvious now the kid has a lot of talent and works when the line does its job.

 

 

So do tons* of RBs who were free agents or available for late round picks. 

[Coltswarriors]

-Trading a 2nd for Vontae, which was an absolute steal. He has basically become a shutdown corner for us.

-Re-signing Reggie Wayne when everyone was claiming "he's done he doesn't have anything left"

-Re-sign Robert Mathis even when people said he wouldn't fit our new 3-4 system.

-Almost his entire 2012 draft class (even look past Andrew Luck)

-The offensive line right now

-Trading up for Hilton in the draft

 

Those are just the few that come to mind.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

you don't have to tell me! the man woke me up at 6am when i was minding my own business, sleeping in my favorite dumpster behind the gas station at 10th & rural

 

at first i got real defensive because i thought he wanted to steal my chicken bones, but he was all cool about it

LOL that's good stuff.

[cm43sports]

If a first round pick is buying low I'd be terrified to see what would be normal or high

He traded the 26th pick for the player that was drafted 3rd overall. The Browns moved up from the number four pick to number three in order to assure they could draft him and after one year, they traded him away for a late first round pick. That's buying low from the Colt's perspective.

[GoColts8818]

I think two under rated moves were signing Redding and letting Garçon walk rsther than over paying and having a fall back plan to bring back Reggie Wayne.

[NewEra]

He traded the 26th pick for the player that was drafted 3rd overall. The Browns moved up from the number four pick to number three in order to assure they could draft him and after one year, they traded him away for a late first round pick. That's buying low from the Colt's perspective.

I understand the trent move. We lost Vick, Bradshaw was coming off a foot surgery. He was in his second year after being drafted #3. And when you're the one trying to do the buying you might have to pay a little more.

[TKnight24]

I don't get all the negative criticism of Grigson. It seems people criticize him even though he is doing exactly what people begged for during the Polian area. Grigson takes chances....they don't always work out, but some have worked very well.

In regards to Free Agents.....I know people don't like some of those signings either. However, he was targeting who he thought was the best available at the time and who was willing to come here. People act like every free agent is willing to sign everywhere the money is right. There are other factors that get weighed when a FA is looking to sign with a team. The fanbase is not privy to the behind the scenes conversations.

The o-line is coming together nicely. Grigson is being criticized because he didn't make a huge splash along the line in free agency (IE. Alex Mack). Grigson drafted the guys he did for a reason (Thornton, Holmes, Mewhort). At some point, if you believe in those guys, you have to let them develop. Based on Shipleys salary and production, was Mack really going to be worth 10 million per year?

He had a plan and he has tried to stay true to it......hard to argue with the results. He has been fairly conscious of structuring the contracts in a way that will not get us in trouble down the road.

Fortunately, we are a spoiled fan base. We cry and moan about 11-5 teams that make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs with a 2nd year QB. It could be a lot worse.......ask any Jaguars, Browns, Raiders, Jets, Rams, Redskins, Lions,.................

I think taking chances is better than standing pat. Least he's trying to improve the team. Polian was only concerned with helping Peyton on offense

You can count on 1 hand how many defensive player's the Colts had that were worth talking about when Peyton was here

[Nobody]

So do tons* of RBs who were free agents or available for late round picks.

Yeah, true, but every GM has bad moves and he's at least turned into a solid piece.

[BleedBlu8792]

we will know how good our o-line is when we play the Texans, jj watt will test us. one good game against the jags does not define an o-line, even though I wish it did

 

You might want to go back to the Denver game and look at their line. Houston's D-line is good, but not nearly as solid as Denver's is across the board. The Colts line handled them well, and will be better against Houston's.

[coltsfanatic24]

I wanted Terrence Brooks but Mewhort has exceeded expectations and outplayed everyone I considered in the 2nd round. After Urban Meyer said he would have drafted Mewhort in the 1st round, then I realized that he could turn out to be a great player because he's one of the best talent evaluators in football. 

[SteelCityColt]

1 win over the Jaguars and people go crazy

 

To be fair most people are discussing actions Grigson has taken over the last few years, not just just one game. 

 

I think it's refreshing to be having a discussion that's got slightly more positive spin.

[SteelCityColt]

It was a route so people are a little amped up.  2-2 after this Sunday. :thmsup:

 

It certainly was a fun journey on Sunday, oddly for Colts there was hardly a bump in the road

[Narcosys]

He traded the 26th pick for the player that was drafted 3rd overall. The Browns moved up from the number four pick to number three in order to assure they could draft him and after one year, they traded him away for a late first round pick. That's buying low from the Colt's perspective.

You don't determine if it's buying low by comparing to what his Draft position is because his Draft position has no direct impact on the player skill. Trent was a bust to them, so to get a 1st rd pick for a busted player is theft on their part.

Buying low would be something like getting jamaal Charles cause he'd had a horrible year and got injured so the Chiefs think he's done and want to trade him. (Hypothetical).

By the way you explain it. Someone trading a 3rd or 4th round pick for tom Brady would be paying to much because he was drafted in the 6th. Cmon man.

[gacker65]

I would be curious to see you actually write out both of your lists of Positives and Negatives and compare.

 

Because I look at the young OL, the Weapons on offence, and the transition that we made to a 3-4 and I just don't see the negatives that alot of people around here have to say about him. I think everyone really just sees the Trent Richardson trade and Bjorn Werner not producing as well as they expect and see him as a failure, but not enough to outweight the good.

No, there are other things as well.

 

Reaching in the draft.  Trading more than a player is worth.  Keeping players when he knows they do not fit schemes.

 

These are all on Grigson as he has final say.

[Valpo2004]

The Vontae move was such genius and I feel like we as fans don't really think about it as often as we should

 

Very true, in the midst of everyone complaining about Richardson they forget that Grigs managed to bring on one of the best CB's in the NFL for just a 2nd round pick.

[Valpo2004]

Yes, he deserves credit for successful talent acquisitions like Hilton, Allen, Mewhort, etc. But let us also not forget that his job isn't to built a partial team, but to build a complete team. I know it's impossible to bat 1.000 for any GM, but i don't think I'll ever get past the Richardson deal, or Pep Hamilton, or 3/4's of the 2013 draft class. I don't see Grigson as a team architect in the way Polian was. Granted, Polian lost his edge in the end, when he turned things over to his son. But there are the visionaries, and there are the journeymen. I'd put Grigson in the latter category--at least so far. Maybe he'll learn and get better. I hope so.

 

You know the thing I notice about every team or nearly every team is they all hate their offensive coordinator.

 

We actually have one of the best offenses in the NFL thus far and still everyone hates Pep.  

 

3/4th of the 2013 draft class

 

Here is the 2013 draft class

1 24 Björn Werner  DE Florida State   3 86 Hugh Thornton  OG Illinois   4 121 Khaled Holmes  C USC   5 139 Montori Hughes  DT Tennessee-Martin  6 192 John Boyett  S Oregon   6 230 Kerwynn Williams  RB Utah State   7 254 Justice Cunningham  TE South Carolina

 

Werner - Ok maybe he's a bust, we still have to give it a bit more time, but he's not been looking great.  Although I will say I think he can be salvaged to take over Walden's role and set the edge.

 

Thornton - Didn't play well his first year but playing solid now

 

Holmes was looking good in pre-season and lost his job to minor injury and the fact that Shipley came back and played outstanding.  Nothing wrong with him, he could start, but there is no reason to screw up what's working really well right now.

 

Hughes: Has been good rotating with Chapman.  What do you want for the 5th round?  

 

Boyett: Made the team at first, screwed it up and is gone.  He's a 6th round pick.  Most 6th round picks don't stick with their teams that long anyways.

 

Same thing with Williams and Cunningham.  Most 7th round picks don't stick.

 

It wasn't a horrible draft, class. . . certainly no 2012, but not horrible.  Honestly if Werner can replace Walden at setting the edge then it will look pretty solid.  

[AntonMcG]

2.5 years ago our roster was widely being compared to that of an expansion team. We have been a play-off outfit ever since and are particularly strong in several areas.

 

Grigson has played a huge part in that.

[Valpo2004]

Just wanted to say one of the main reasons I put up this thread was because Grigson is the only one who gets ripped on when he makes the wrong call, which is fair because he's the guy that made the call.

 

But a lot of other people who are extremely critical of him have had their own ideas of what to do and when time proves that their idea was a bad one, they don't eat any crow for it.  

 

That's why I started with the Mewhort thing.  Pretty much everyone on here wanted Gabe Jackson instead.  Well if the bleacher report article is to be believed Mewhort is outperforming Gabe Jackson and it isn't even close.  But no one on here has eaten any crow for that one and realistically most of us probably should, myself to some extent.

 

But a lot of people just won't be able to get over his mistake from a year ago.  Which oddly enough was supported by a lot of people on here.  I thought we gave up too much for him but I would have gladly given up a 2nd at the time for him.  

 

 

I wanted Terrence Brooks but Mewhort has exceeded expectations and outplayed everyone I considered in the 2nd round. After Urban Meyer said he would have drafted Mewhort in the 1st round, then I realized that he could turn out to be a great player because he's one of the best talent evaluators in football. 

 

I wouldn't put too much weight into a college coach pumping up their kid.

 

But one thing that I think we have to recognize is I think the Mewhort pick had a lot to do with versatility.  They practiced that kid at pretty much every place on the line during camp.  

 

At least for right now I believe his ceiling is at guard, but he could move around which was something that was very important early in camp when we didn't know how things would turn out.  

[Smash Mouth]

I think the negatives still out weigh the positives. 

The Colt's record over the past 2 years suggests otherwise.  I have been very critical of Grigson - primarily because I'm worried that the loss of Mathis will catch up to this team.  I really wanted to see some young pass rushers on this team.  I don't like the Werner pick as Mathis' replacement.  Like everyone else, I want to see a young Safety out there....I'm picking for now.  We play in a really weak division and if we can stay healthy, we have 13 more games to get ready for a good post season run.

[cm43sports]

You don't determine if it's buying low by comparing to what his Draft position is because his Draft position has no direct impact on the player skill. Trent was a bust to them, so to get a 1st rd pick for a busted player is theft on their part.

Buying low would be something like getting jamaal Charles cause he'd had a horrible year and got injured so the Chiefs think he's done and want to trade him. (Hypothetical).

By the way you explain it. Someone trading a 3rd or 4th round pick for tom Brady would be paying to much because he was drafted in the 6th. Cmon man.

The difference is that Brady is a ten plus year vet and who he is in the league is well established. Richardson had only played one year and could amount to anything or nothing. The Colts bought low on someone that had/has the potential to be a gamechanging running back. Whether or not he is a bust, whether or not you believe we should have made the trade, we did buy low. It was only a year prior to the Colts trading for him that multiple analysts referred to him as a sure thing and a game changer

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

The Colt's record over the past 2 years suggests otherwise.  I have been very critical of Grigson - primarily because I'm worried that the loss of Mathis will catch up to this team.  I really wanted to see some young pass rushers on this team.  I don't like the Werner pick as Mathis' replacement.  Like everyone else, I want to see a young Safety out there....I'm picking for now.  We play in a really weak division and if we can stay healthy, we have 13 more games to get ready for a good post season run.

There aren't many players of the 32 NFL teams that could replace Mathis over his career

as a Colt in that timeframe. Even Freeney couldn't hold a job here and got shipped

clear across the states because Mathis was the better pass rusher.

[Smash Mouth]

There aren't many players of the 32 NFL teams that could replace Mathis over his career

as a Colt in that timeframe. Even Freeney couldn't hold a job here and got shipped

clear across the states because Mathis was the better pass rusher.

I agree but what about Werner showed that he could replace Mathis?  He dominated college Tackles when he played on a team that was physically dominant. He's another Paul Kruger. Kruger played in a great defense and had a nice playoff run but where is he now?  Mathis and Freeney has speed and agility that is not easy to find.  But I want a guy who can run coming off the edge. That's not Werner.  

[Narcosys]

The difference is that Brady is a ten plus year vet and who he is in the league is well established. Richardson had only played one year and could amount to anything or nothing. The Colts bought low on someone that had/has the potential to be a gamechanging running back. Whether or not he is a bust, whether or not you believe we should have made the trade, we did buy low. It was only a year prior to the Colts trading for him that multiple analysts referred to him as a sure thing and a game changer

No, when you're argument for one player is based on Draft position you can't change the rules to suit your argument. You still have to use logic and apply your argument to all players.

We didn't buy low. A first for a first, No matter the position is not buying low. Every analyst out there has said we paid to much or that the Browns got the better end of the deal.

Analysts said he was good before he ever played a snap in the nfl. Now a sure thing has turned into complete uncertainty, and you think we got a good deal on him? That proves there's no point in discussing this with you any further.