Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

1yrdandacloudofdust

Denver CB Harris says Wilson is better than Luck [Merge]

Recommended Posts

If I had to chose i would take Wilson I think he is the most versatile QB in the game. Like Brady he came out of nowhere and like Peyton Luck was tops on the list to draft. I don't get the Colts nopt designing more short run plays for Luck with 4.6-40 speed and power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russell Wilson has the Ring,  so until someone else from his drafting class matches that,  He will be considered the best of the class.

 

Is he really the best...???   :dunno:  I don't know, but I do know he definitely impressed me with that last winning drive last night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know who thinks Luck is better than Wilson? Doug Baldwin. And he's on the same freaking team. Richard Sherman mentioned Andrew Luck as having the best arm of any QB in the NFL (he did call Luck the 5th "smartest" as opposed to Wilson's 4th). Trent Dilfer has said that he's been told by at least one veteran coach that Luck is "hands down" the best player in the NFL (QB or other position). I've never heard anyone knowledgeable make such a claim about Wilson.

 

What always gets me when people try to talk about how Wilson is better than Luck is the talk of "efficiency". Sure, his box score numbers would suggest he's more "efficient" than Luck since he has a higher career completion percentage and yards per attempt and a lower career interception total. I think any neutral observer would admit that Wilson has been aided in part by a superior cast around him (especially on defense) and that the running game he has with Marshawn Lynch sets up a more dangerous play action (half Wilsons tds last year). But even if we set all that aside, if he's so much more "efficient", why was his espn total QBR last year lower than Luck's despite being surrounded by such superior talent? And people saying "oh so far this year he's playing better than Luck" - again - his total QBR according to their metrics is lower despite having an easier team to quarterback. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No weakness in Wilson's game and that drive yesterday when the Broncos had ALL the momentum was money. Wilson is more efficient and makes less mistakes BUT he has the much better team. That being said, the Seattle offense is woefully average IMO outside of Lynch. Harvin disappears and then the other guys seem average to lousy at best. Wilson made the final drive happen last night with his feet and his arm. It was a clinic in how QB carries an offense down the field for the win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost apples and oranges.  Andrew is asked to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball, throw into tighter windows.  RW has a more dynamic offense to run with all kinds of misdirections and a much better running game.  Seattle's offense gets RW on the edges which puts significantly more strew on a defense.  Derek Bevel has built an offense to highlights RW's athleticism an ability to make good decisions.  I think RW gets the nod on being more composed and making fewer mistakes.  You can't over estimate what an impact having that defense provides too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Seattle fans can say Wilson is a better QB.  In case you haven't noticed, Seattle's O line is mediocre to horrible and has been since Wilson's been there.

Pro Bowl LT and Center plus Carpenter is a beast and will be a Pro Bowler this year, I wouldn't call that mediocre or horrible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh. I still want Luck on the Colts. I actually think both QBs are perfectly suited for their teams and orgs from their play on their field to their character, leadership and attitude. I wish both teams were in the same conference at least so we could see them go head to head more often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No weakness in Wilson's game and that drive yesterday when the Broncos had ALL the momentum was money. Wilson is more efficient and makes less mistakes BUT he has the much better team. That being said, the Seattle offense is woefully average IMO outside of Lynch. Harvin disappears and then the other guys seem average to lousy at best. Wilson made the final drive happen last night with his feet and his arm. It was a clinic in how QB carries an offense down the field for the win.

I agree with most of what you wrote. The only point I would disagree with is that the offense being woefully average outside of Lynch. They have a very good Oline and while no stars in the skill positions they are on a whole better than average, with no lousy players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost apples and oranges.  Andrew is asked to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball, throw into tighter windows.  RW has a more dynamic offense to run with all kinds of misdirections and a much better running game.  Seattle's offense gets RW on the edges which puts significantly more strew on a defense.  Derek Bevel has built an offense to highlights RW's athleticism an ability to make good decisions.  I think RW gets the nod on being more composed and making fewer mistakes.  You can't over estimate what an impact having that defense provides too.

"I think RW gets the nod on being more composed and making fewer mistakes."

 

This among his physical talents and decision making is why I think its so close,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who is Chris Harris? Some bottom of the rung CB? Yea, thanks for your input buddy.

 

 

I know who Chris Harris is, i'm just making a mockery of him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with most of what you wrote. The only point I would disagree with is that the offense being woefully average outside of Lynch. They have a very good Oline and while no stars in the skill positions they are on a whole better than average, with no lousy players.

I thought the Oline was below average yesterday but that was against a great pass rush.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt that Russel Wilson is a great quarterback, because he scrambles fast away from defenders. As he ages I bet he will be doing the same thing and injuring himself. Just my opinion though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who is Chris Harris? Some bottom of the rung CB? Yea, thanks for your input buddy.

 

 

I know who Chris Harris is, i'm just making a mockery of him.

He is a very, very good corner. Best corner on Denver's team. Check out his wiki page and you will see some of his achievements with the Broncos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is a very, very good corner. Best corner on Denver's team. Check out his wiki page and you will see some of his achievements with the Broncos.

He's a good corner but Talib is the best on the Broncos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the Oline was below average yesterday but that was against a great pass rush.

Yesterday may not have been the Seahawks oline's best game. I was just saying they are, IMO, a very good Oline. The Seahawks ran the ball fairly well and overall there was not too much pressure on Wilson, although I give Wilson's mobility/calm under pressure a lot of credit for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's a good corner but Talib is the best on the Broncos.

Talib was bad yesterday. He has to prove he is better than Harris at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday may not have been the Seahawks oline's best game. I was just saying they are, IMO, a very good Oline. The Seahawks ran the ball fairly well and overall there was not too much pressure on Wilson, although I give Wilson's mobility/calm under pressure a lot of credit for that.

Yeah, I think the Oline gets that if they can keep the pressure toward the middle than Wilson will run to the edge. Honestly, I don't know why Denver did not have a LB spying him especially on the last drive. It was maddening to watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only think I have to say is who cares? It's no difference that the age old Manning vs Brady crap. Now it turns to Luck vs Wilson crap. They are both very good QBs so what difference does it make except to those who want to bicker about it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I think to answer the question, you have to look at the path that led them here. Knowing what you know about both quarterbacks, and the team that the Colts had in 2012, who would you have taken on April 26, 2012?

 

With all the chips on the table, I'm taking Luck every day of the week. That's not to discredit Wilson. He is a GREAT qb. That drive yesterday was beautiful. I just think Luck is capable of doing more with less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talib was bad yesterday. He has to prove he is better than Harris at this point.

He did have a bad game but Harris has had bad games as well. From a talent standpoint Talib is the better Corner but Harris is more consistent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with most of what you wrote. The only point I would disagree with is that the offense being woefully average outside of Lynch. They have a very good Oline and while no stars in the skill positions they are on a whole better than average, with no lousy players.

The Seahawks gave up 141 hits+sacks combined on Wilson while the Colts gave up 138 in 2013

 

Colts ran 409 times

 

Luck ran the ball for 377 yards on 63 carries...So take away those 63 runs from 409 and his 377 yards......you now have 346 carries and 1366 yards....3.94ypc

 

Seahawks ran 509 times.....96 of those by Wilson for 539 yards........Take those 96 carries away you get 413 attempts, Seahawks ran for a total of 2188 yards prior to taking away Wilsons 539....Take away his 539 yards.....Seahawks ran for 1649 yards...5.29ypc....Quite a bit better then the Colts last year but multiple factors go into that,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Luck: 912 yards 9 TD's 3 INT's 69% completion %

 

Wilson: 651 yards 6 TD's 1 INT 69% completion %

 

I'd argue it. 

First, I think it is a silly comparison to make. Wilson plays for a much better team and he doesn't have to win games by himself. He also runs the ball well at appropriate times in the game and he protects himself well. Wilson doesn't have to score nearly as much to win because his defense is so good. Luck threw the ball 126 times. Wilson threw 87 times. The average per completion is 7.2 for Luck and 7.5 for Wilson. Luck's stats are inflated because of the blowout win against a very bad Jacksonville team. What do you think Wilson's stats would look like if he got to play those turkeys twice?

 

This will be the Brady/Manning debate of the future. Wilson already has a Super Bowl win and he played very well yesterday and got a win against a very good Denver team something Luck was unable to do. I still think the comparison is meaningless because of the vast difference between the talent levels of the two teams. If you had a complete NFL draft, I am sure Luck would go number one but Wilson would be right behind him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

surprised-reaction-guy-l.png

 

Did anyone else catch Broncos DB Chris Harris saying after the game that Wilson is better than Luck?

 

I mean, I like Wilson. He's a great guy. Good QB. He gets a lot of help from those around him. 

 

But better than Luck? 

 

Uh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Harris should worry about his own playoff-vomitting QB.

That QB looked might good tying the game when down eight points with 58 seconds left. If John Fox had not been so conservative for so much of the game, Denver would have won.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

surprised-reaction-guy-l.png

 

Did anyone else catch Broncos DB Chris Harris saying after the game that Wilson is better than Luck?

 

I mean, I like Wilson. He's a great guy. Good QB. He gets a lot of help from those around him. 

 

But better than Luck? 

 

Uh...

 

You have not been paying attention too well, have you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stay out of NFL General at all costs. 

 

I seriously have like 6 posts there, 3 of which in the last week. I don't even stop by there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stay out of NFL General at all costs. 

 

I seriously have like 6 posts there, 3 of which in the last week. I don't even stop by there.

 

Or maybe I had too much beer over the weekend. 

 

Hell I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That QB looked might good tying the game when down eight points with 58 seconds left. If John Fox had not been so conservative for so much of the game, Denver would have won.

Who knows...they failed.

And as usual we hear "Fox's fault", "bad OT rules" and all the rest.

All I'm saying is that Harris' pot shot at Luck is the useless opinion of a losing football player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who knows...they failed.

And as usual we hear "Fox's fault", "bad OT rules" and all the rest.

All I'm saying is that Harris' pot shot at Luck is the useless opinion of a losing football player.

Well, that losing football player had a good view of both of the QBs. They lost to Wilson but the beat Luck and were blowing the Colts out in the first half. I do not find his opinion useless at all. Your opinion on the other hand.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stay out of NFL General at all costs. 

 

I seriously have like 6 posts there, 3 of which in the last week. I don't even stop by there.

 

I thought this was in NFL Gen. when I first clicked the link.

 

And now I will re-take my absence from this forum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pro Bowl LT and Center plus Carpenter is a beast and will be a Pro Bowler this year, I wouldn't call that mediocre or horrible

Then you haven't spent any time watching them. Their pass protection is weak. Their run blocking is inconsistent. They lose focus and commit stupid penalties. Mee Dee Oaker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I wish Thielan played for the blue Shoe. lol.
    • I have no doubt!  I was disappointed because I actually watched him play every year in every game he played at Carolina.  I had hopes for him out of the draft, but he really didn't impress.    But here is something to consider.  Even if he has an "Ebron" type year coming up, that doesn't win the argument for me.  Doyle if healthy, would have dominated the catches outside the end zone and we'd be having a different discussion because though he'd still have had 10 TD Catches probably, his drops would not have so easily been ignored, especially in big moments.  So it isn't too late for some of the naysayers from that draft to be a little more balanced in their assessment.  I actually remember being ecstatic last year with the first 3 picks, because I am more a "need" guy than a "bpa" guy, though not 100%, more like 60/40.  What was brilliant in the top 3 picks were they were ALL huge needs, but in hindsight, they turned out to be BPA by a MILE when they were picked.  In fact all would have been top 15 1st rounders I bet in the hindsight draft.     I do recall not being as excited about the last 2 picks Turay in particular.  I hope he turns into a monster and makes my doubting him look silly.  I'd always rather look silly when I am down on someone than end up with a bust.  I hope Funchess balls out like I first hoped when he was drafted.  If he does, it will PROVE how superior Luck is to Newton (even though for me it is already clear).  It also demonstrated how superior Luck was to Mr. Detroit though I doubt many questioned that anyway.   If he gets the most out of Ebron and Funchess two years in a row it will simply prove his brilliance as a player and Reich's genius at play design/calling.  
    • Well, thanks for acknowledging that you buried the lead.  I actually believe a couple thing, feel free to prove me wrong, I won't mind.  One, I believe that talking heads on TV, especially when talking about an entity that makes their careers even possible (NFL) will often either commit "not true" blatantly, or will fudge information into the most favorable possible representation.  I could list dozens or even hundreds of examples of outright LIES made by people in the media, and that includes the sports media.  Not simply wrong opinions, but easily disprovable lies.  I won't because this site (thankfully) doesn't allow that sort of thing, but an honest thinker knows it is true, or could easily look for themselves to check.     Secondly, I believe to understand anything in the world, the easiest pathway to truth is to follow the money.   You think the options are limited to 10  because someone told you, but did you do the math? No.  I've seen the math done and the possibilities of 32 teams playing 16 games in 17 weeks where you must only include the following rules: A 50% home schedule for most teams. The exceptions being out of country games that unfairly count as home games for one of the teams, but of course they rarely let you know that financially (re: follow the money) the home team makes a LOT more money by giving up that home game.  Additionally, only two teams are locked into specific home games, the week of Thanksgiving.  The Cowboys and Lions.  (Though to be clear, this could randomly change any time, just like they changed the "tradition" of the first game of the season being the past Super Bowl Champion, though it didn't affect the home/away configuration).   In all other circumstances, you can make the home and away games whenever you want.  The only additional factor is every team gets a week off between two set points in the season.  Not a big deal really since each time you give a team a bye, it forces a corresponding team to also take a bye so it isn't as though there can be even/odd numbers on a given week like they briefly had during expansion which I believe ushered in the bye weeks).      The additional factor you may want to interject is the divisional requirements and the pre-determined NFL teams you must play.  It doesn't change anything.     So, if you accept what you hear from a talking head may be accidentally or intentionally inaccurate to support a narrative and that if you want to know the truth you need to follow the money, that allows you to discover that your quote of 10 options was naive and even the number of 100,000 I is woefully LESS than the actual mathematical number.     Don't believe or think I am making it up?  What if I told you the number of schedule possibilities for a given team is 60 TRILLION... yes, I said TRILLION.   What if I told you the number of possibilities for the entire leagues schedule is a number simply too large to comprehend.     Would that perhaps make you back off you claims of NOT being naive?  Yeah, I didn't think so.  So I looked it up so that someone else would tell you other than me.   ------------------------------------------------ "'Factoring in days of the week and opponents, the Vikings alone have about 60 trillion different possible schedule combinations." For the entire league? “There are more combinations than the number of atoms in the universe,” Karwan said.   He was dead serious.'" -Mark Karwan   Karwan, a professor of operations research at the University of Buffalo, is part of a team of researchers that has partnered with the NFL in an attempt to make the league schedule as fair as possible for every team. ----------------------------------------------------- Still don't believe me?  (perhaps you're THAT stubborn...) Here's the link to the entire article, but there are plenty more.     http://m.startribune.com/inside-the-journey-from-60-trillion-possibilities-to-one-vikings-schedule/508765572/     By the way, they haven't started suggesting fairer schedules yet, they are just taking in info at this stage.     If you still think the argument that there are 10 options out of 100,000 possibilities isn't naive, then I can't help you.     On a side note:   I do think there are fairer schedules.  One would be BYE weeks.   Having an early BYE week is unfair.  Week 4 is laughable, but Week 6 where the Colts are is also unfair.  Teams we compete with for the division title have much much later BYES putting us at a CLEAR disadvantage to get healthy going into the playoffs.  THAT is a CHOICE made by the NFL.  Additionally, putting our toughest road games of the season all on PRIME TIME where home teams have an even greater advantage (and a more stressful travel schedule for the away team) is totally unfair.   We have 4 national games, all are AWAY.  THAT is a choice made by the NFL.   The worst of all, we have 3 critical late division games in a row with an AWAY Thursday night game against our rival of last year right in the middle.  Are all the teams in our division ALSO at that disadvantage?  Nope.  No others are.  So after a bruising game with Jacksonville, we have to turn around and travel to Houston on 3 days broken rest (due to travel) to play perhaps the biggest single game of the season for the Colts.  THAT is a CHOICE made by the NFL.      My solutions: Simple.  Divisional teams should ALL have the same BYE week.  ALL Byes should be week 9, 10, 11, 12 and it should be based on how far the top teams (with tie breakers) got in the playoffs.  That would leave plenty of good games during the Bye Weeks, (75% of teams).  It would basically be a half way rest mark like other leagues take and be far more fair to ALL teams regardless of circumstances.      I would ALSO make sure the home team prior to a Thursday night game must play AWAY the previous Sunday and the AWAY team must play at HOME.  That way each team has a travel day affecting the 3 day layoff, either leaving for home on Sunday or traveling to the game.     I could offer up a lot more as could ALL of you and ALL your suggestions would likely be better than what we have now.  I've heard people suggest that BYE weeks be across 2 weeks and also BYE weeks go in draft order based on scheduled finished (not picks obviously) the previous year so the better you play, you are rewarded by a later BYE.  Since you get hosed on Drafting, you should gain this one benefit by playing well.  That's not a bad idea, but I prefer to bunch them up when it matters, near mid season when teams really need a vacation to heal.  This acts as a near mid season break like all other leagues.   I also think Division games should NOT be on Thursday night because there is such a clear disadvantage to the away team regardless.  I think if they were smart like these guys above who are going to work on it, they would also break up the stretches of road away games that tend to be unfair.  2 in a row is one thing, 3 or more is too much.    
    • I'm not sure speed is high on the priority list for our system. Both Quincy and Desir are below average speed-wise. IMO a player to add to your collection is JoeJuan Williams. He hits a lot of the zone corner criteria in Tampa 2...    Some other names: JoeJuan Williams Kris Boyd Michael Jackson Iman Marshall Alijah Holder   Some of those are potential later round picks.   
    • Fair enough, I was merely presenting that both the optimists and the pessimists can be right based on the situation, so I give people a free pass on Ballard's last class as I wasn't criticizing the negative people on this thread even though I knew Leonard and Smith well. I have very high expectations of Ballard in a week. He won't match last years class, but he can still do solid. I would only bash him if he did something like take Khalen Saunders in the 1st hypothetically (which would be missing on a run and making a panic move), or if he completely abandoned his approach that worked last year. I want him to be himself and follow what works. I finally trust a GM, I hope he can continue to come through.
  • Members

    • ColtsAC

      ColtsAC 98

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • ScotColt

      ScotColt 10

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Hammer

      Hammer 186

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Surge89

      Surge89 961

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • DarkSuperman

      DarkSuperman 3,534

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Finch23

      Finch23 224

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Jack86

      Jack86 2

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • jskinnz

      jskinnz 5,114

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • shakedownstreet

      shakedownstreet 6,630

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • NewColtsFan

      NewColtsFan 18,533

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...