Start Butler and move Toler to nickle corner

[DirtyLANDRY30]

I'll start off by saying IMO         

 

I think Butler played spectacular against Andre Johnson in the Texans game and feel if he kept it up, he could blanket Dwayne Bowe as well. Bowe has a similar body build as Johnson also.

 

This way Toler may see less action while recovering and he played some great nickle in Arizona.

 

 

[Mameluc]

we dont even know if toler is gonna play

[jameszeigler834]

Butler is not a number 2 corner toler is.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Toler was brought in to supplant Butler and he has done so. We don't go back.

[DirtyLANDRY30]

Butler is not a number 2 corner toler is.

He looked like a pretty good number 2 against Johnson last week

[PrincetonTiger]

Let's wait and see

[AntonMcG]

Davis seemed to be covering Johnson more often than not. Butler excels in the nickel IMO, then again, that is also where Toler excelled in Arizona.

 

Toler's height and better ability to press means he should probably stay out wide.

[lollygagger8]

I think Butler has been playing pretty awesome all year, and I'm scared that Toler might be a little rusty. But there's really no good time to try and knock off the rust.

 

To be honest, I kind of forgot about Toler even being a Colts player he's been gone so long. That all said, if Toler is truly 100% (whatever that means in his head) then he starts outside, and butler plays nickel. 

 

I still think we should put Davis on the opposing #1 receiver regardless of side of field. 

[Tark The Shark]

You also have to take into account that Keenum wasn't passing very well, and Johnson checked out of the season as soon as he and Schaub got into a verbal spat a couple weeks ago.

 

Not saying that Butler didn't play a great game, but the talent on the other side wasn't there last Sunday.

[jskinnz]

 

I'll start off by saying IMO         

 

I think Butler played spectacular against Andre Johnson in the Texans game and feel if he kept it up, he could blanket Dwayne Bowe as well. Bowe has a similar body build as Johnson also.

 

This way Toler may see less action while recovering and he played some great nickle in Arizona.

 

The only way this happens if they want to ease Toler back into the line up and put him on a play count. Otherwise, he is the starting corner with Davis.

[Dickerson29]

Butler is playing that New England style corner that Ty Law used to do to a young P Manning. He is not that good on his man but he watches the QB and if the ball is not thrown to his man he leaves him and jumps the route. Stat wise it looks great , but he can be exposed if they figure out what he is doing. He kinda plays like a third safety. It is more effective if he is on the outside because he can roam to the middle and jump routes if his man stays on the sideline,or he will jump flat routes that he is susposed to have vacated. If he is covering the slot , he is too occupied to look around because those are usually quick hitters so he doesn't get the interceptions he would on the outside.I like it cause it gives us the ball back, but Im think Bellichick got tired of his gambling style

[jameszeigler834]

He looked like a pretty good number 2 against Johnson last week

Ok let me rephrase he is a good number two when he is needed nut he is better where he is when Toler plays.

[Slick_Rick]

He looked like a pretty good number 2 against Johnson last week

You do realize that was with Case Keenum the UDFA playing qb right? I mean, maybe we can promote Cassius Vaughn while we are at it. He had two picks against the Titans a few weeks ago...

[CR91]

butler shut down the best slot wr in the game. keep him in the nickel

[Coffeedrinker]

If the coaches were smart and unbiased they would replace Butler with Toler (assuming Toler plays), keep Vaughn at nickle and bring in Butler in the dime package only and later when Toler reaggravates his groin in the middle of the 2nd quarter.  Outside of the Denver game fans would be hard pressed to point to another entire game where Butler played the nickle well.

[Coffeedrinker]

Actually, IMO, the Colts should play primarily a nickle D and use that nickle back to shadow Charles in various formations (not consistently enough to adjust and take him out of the game).  Since the Colts don't have the personnel, IMO to put up a "brick wall" so to speak to stop Charles the next way to combat it is to match his speed.  Also they better make adjustments because the Chiefs will be lining up Avery against Davis a lot.  And as much as I think Davis is a pro bowl CB, elite speed is not his strength.

[achcolts]

If the coaches were smart and unbiased they would replace Butler with Toler (assuming Toler plays), keep Vaughn at nickle and bring in Butler in the dime package only and later when Toler reaggravates his groin in the middle of the 2nd quarter.  Outside of the Denver game fans would be hard pressed to point to another entire game where Butler played the nickle well.

 

really dude?? you really think vaughn > butler? butler has been great in the nickel, idk what game you are watching. whenever butler plays bad, im sure it was a game where they all played bad.

[Coffeedrinker]

really dude?? you really think vaughn > butler? butler has been great in the nickel, idk what game you are watching. whenever butler plays bad, im sure it was a game where they all played bad.

Let's not confuse things here, I think Vaughn is a better nickle corner than Butler.  I think Butler is better on the outside.  When Butler is playing the nickle he spends too much time eying the QB and therefore he is usually a step behind the WR.  When he places on the outside he plays the WR a lot more.  Also the Colts play zone a lot more with the nickle back and more man with the outside CBs.  Butler is much better at man coverage than in zone.  Vaughn is the opposite, he is much better in zone than in man coverage.  So when it comes to Toler, who is better in man coverage than Butler, then yes the smart thing to do is have Toler replace Butler and Vaughn stay where he has been for the last couple of week.

 

As far as what games I've been watching... I've been watching the Colts and how they play, not basing my decision from what the announcers say in one game.

[Freenyfan102]

Bowe is more physical then JOHNSON

[BPM_Colt]

Butler is suited for the nickel role. That is where he will get the majority of his snaps once Toler decides his return date

[bavanlan]

I wouldn't be opposed to putting Toler in the nickel spot  and Butler outside on nickel packages, but Toler needs to be in over Butler in the base defense...and I'm the guy who coined the phrase 'Toler LOLer' when he gets burned.

[Gavin]

Toler was brought in to supplant Butler and he has done so. We don't go back.

Brought in to supplant Vaughn...He has not done so

[Gavin]

I wouldn't be opposed to putting Toler in the nickel spot  and Butler outside on nickel packages, but Toler needs to be in over Butler in the base defense...and I'm the guy who coined the phrase 'Toler LOLer' when he gets burned.

In fairness Toler only gave up two passing td's through his 7 games played, 1st one vs Oakland in 1st Quarter, the 2nd one did not come until week 5 in the 1st Quarter by Golden Tate vs Seattle

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Brought in to supplant Vaughn...He has not done so

 

Yes. He has.

[Warhawk]

While it may be fair to criticize Toler for not being able to stay healthy, when he is healthy, he should be the #2 corner, and Butler should be the nickel corner. It's just better schematically based on their strengths.

In games Toler has started, we've given up 8 passing TDs and forced 8 interceptions (though it's really 7 & 7 based on when he went out vs. the Broncos). In games he hasn't played, we've given up 12 passing touchdowns and forced 5 interceptions. More importantly, those games he started were against Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Philip Rivers, Ryan Tannehill, Terrell Pryor, and Blaine Gabbert. The games he's missed were against Case Keenum twice, Kellen Clemens, Ryan Fitzpatrick twice, Carson Palmer, and Andy Dalton. I'm gonna say that first group is a lot better than that second group.

[BleedBlu8792]

Bowe is more physical then JOHNSON

Bwahaha.. No he isn't.

[bap1331]

I hate when backups start playing good and then the starter is healthy again. Then you don't know who to play!!!

[K-148]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/19/secret-superstars-week-15-2/

While Vontae Davis may be our fourth-highest graded cornerback in 2013, it was his Indianapolis Colts teammate Darius Butler (+4.5) who caught our attention in Week 15. Starting just five games all year, Butler has been up and down, but the former second round draft pick out of Connecticut had his best game of the season on Sunday, taking advantage of Texans quarterback Case Keenum’s willingness to go after him.

The seven passes thrown into his coverage were the most against any Colts defender in the game, with him giving up just two receptions for 20 yards. More importantly, he was able to get his hands on three of those passes, recording two interceptions and a pass break-up. That all resulted in him allowing an average of 0.54 Yards Per Coverage Snap and a reception once every 18.5 snaps in coverage, coming in at 10th among all cornerback in both categories and putting a bit more ‘up’ into that up-and-down year.

Davis + Butler + healthy Toler = pretty good secondary.

[BleedBlu8792]

I hate when backups start playing good and then the starter is healthy again. Then you don't know who to play!!!

That's a problem, as a coach, you love to have. You have to ride the hot hand, in my opinion. Much like Pagano did with Donald Brown.

[Dustin]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/19/secret-superstars-week-15-2/

While Vontae Davis may be our fourth-highest graded cornerback in 2013, it was his Indianapolis Colts teammate Darius Butler (+4.5) who caught our attention in Week 15. Starting just five games all year, Butler has been up and down, but the former second round draft pick out of Connecticut had his best game of the season on Sunday, taking advantage of Texans quarterback Case Keenum’s willingness to go after him.

The seven passes thrown into his coverage were the most against any Colts defender in the game, with him giving up just two receptions for 20 yards. More importantly, he was able to get his hands on three of those passes, recording two interceptions and a pass break-up. That all resulted in him allowing an average of 0.54 Yards Per Coverage Snap and a reception once every 18.5 snaps in coverage, coming in at 10th among all cornerback in both categories and putting a bit more ‘up’ into that up-and-down year.

Davis + Butler + healthy Toler = pretty good secondary.

 

This hurts:

 

Jerry Hughes, OLB, Buffalo Bills

Sometimes all a player needs is a fresh start in a new city, like Jerry Hughes (+3.5) who arrived in Buffalo via a trade with the Colts that saw the former first-round pick exchanged for the previously mentioned Kelvin Sheppard. Hughes is our eight-ranked 3-4 outside linebacker this year, after finishing with a negative grade in each of his first three seasons. Proof, perhaps, that we shouldn’t be so quick to label a player a bust, but more importantly an indication of just how good a fit he has been in Buffalo.

Sunday marked his highest-graded game as a pass rusher this year, matching a season-high of six total pressures but with more impact that in his other six-pressure performance, with a sack, three hits and two hurries this time around. That all came from just 23 pass rushing opportunities, with Hughes finishing the game with a Pass Rushing Productivity rating of 20.7. Almost unrecognizable to the player we saw in Indianapolis, he is currently third at the position in terms of PRP, and is still within a shot at finishing at the top of the pile when the dust settles on the season.

 

[Iancolts]

You can put Toler as the field goal

Holder on special teams and he will say he can't do it cause he is only 99.9 percent healed cause he can't chase down a blocked punt!!

[coltsfanatic24]

Butler is not big or strong enough to play on the outside, he's a slot CB. Toler is bigger, more physical, and quicker he just needs to stay healthy.