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How much value do you put on being a "class organization"?

aliveon2legs

By aliveon2legs
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aliveon2legs Walk On

aliveon2legs

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I ask because it sure seems like we're taking a lot of chances on guys with character issues and troubled pasts.

 

I'm all for giving guys second chances, and if they take it and it benefits the team, great.  But at what point should we be concerned that it becomes a detriment to the team?

 

I don't think it's an immediate problem because the core of the team seems to be made up of really good guys.  It only takes one Terrell Owens to destroy a locker room, though.  

 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just not the way I'm used to seeing this organization operate.  Nobody is a bigger critic of Bill Polian than I, but you have to at least give him credit that this team always reflected very well on this city, even while down the street the Pacers were shooting up strip clubs.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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I ask because it sure seems like we're taking a lot of chances on guys with character issues and troubled pasts.

I'm all for giving guys second chances, and if they take it and it benefits the team, great. But at what point should we be concerned that it becomes a detriment to the team?

I don't think it's an immediate problem because the core of the team seems to be made up of really good guys. It only takes one Terrell Owens to destroy a locker room, though.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just not the way I'm used to seeing this organization operate. Nobody is a bigger critic of Bill Polian than I, but you have to at least give him credit that this team always reflected very well on this city, even while down the street the Pacers were shooting up strip clubs.

there were plenty of problem children here during the polian era. It just seems like its a bigger deal now.

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chad72 Ring of Honor

chad72

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If that player on the field does not get a bone headed 15 yard penalty and blow up, I am all for second chances. If a few more of them talk the "I'm a Colts playa" talk, we may have to think harder about the second and third chances.

 

I am sure there is enough happy medium between choir boys and drunken boys to find our melting pot there :) that can play football.

 

Lets not forget Grigson did stay away from Janoris Jenkins (though he went with Coby Fleener :(), I am sure Grigs prefers the happy medium too.

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aliveon2legs Walk On

aliveon2legs

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there were plenty of problem children here during the polian era. It just seems like its a bigger deal now.

 

Sure, and one of them could very well have been named the MVP of Super Bowl XLI.  He was arrested and wet himself in the back of the police car.  He was released immediately.

 

I don't think Grigson would have cut Rhodes.  For evidence of that I look at the fact that Lefeged remains on this team after fleeing the police, while Boyett was released.  The guy that can help the team win games remains, the other guy is gone.  I'm not saying that it was right or wrong to cut Rhodes, or that Lefeged should or shouldn't have been released.  It's hard to know what decision is right or wrong until you know how it plays out.

 

Whenever you have 53 men on a roster, you're going to have problems somewhere.  I'm just saying that this administration is handling them different and taking more risks, from what I can tell so far.

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Gramz Team Captain

Gramz

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I place a lot of value in it.  

 

I have always felt a sort of Pride being a Fan of the Colts, a Classy Team, and well run organization, with a lot of good character in our players.    It's Great to have a winning team, and when you do that and still maintain class and  integrity, it's all the sweeter.

 

I see no reason why that can't continue.   

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ColtsFanMikeC Walk On

ColtsFanMikeC

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I think that Grigson and Pagano very much value being a 'class' organization. 

 

I would be worried if we were bringing in vets like TO or Ocho-Cinco -- but we are not.  We have a very solid group of classy veterans:  Reggie Wayne, Robert Mathis, Adam Vinatieri, Cory Redding, Matt Hasselbeck, Antoine Bethea are a few that come to mind.  Then we seem to have a young group of classy players: Andrew Luck, Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener, TY, Griff Whalen, DHB, Jerrell Freeman, Josh Chapman, Matt Overton, Greg Toler, Darius Butler, RJF, Pat Angerer, Bjoern Werner, Costanzo, Reitz, McGlynn, Holmes, Thornton, Cherilus are names that come to mind that I have never heard a negative word said about them regarding off the field actions.

 

Montori Hughes is a young guy that had some character issues coming from college -- so far, all I have heard about him in camp is that he was following Redding around non-stop trying to learn how to be a professional.  To my knowledge, he has not been in any off-field troubles since joining our team.  I am not sure how many posters on this board went to college, but I can almost guarantee that any one who ever went to college has done at least 1 thing that they wish that they hadn't -- it doesn't get amplified if you are not a student-athlete, those guys get a lot more scrutiny than the guys that go on to work as CEO's or bankers or farmers, etc... I know a lot of people I went to college with that are very successful in a lot of different fields that did a lot of stupid things between ages 17-23, some that even got caught for doing things but never got brought to the public's attention because they were not star athletes.  Some needed mentors, some just needed a more stable lifestyle (i.e., 9-5 job), some needed to get in a little trouble to stop being *s -- are any of them terrible people for something they did at age 21?  No.  If any of them got caught for doing some of the things they did at age 21 and were big time student-athletes, would the rest of us who did stupid things and didn't get publicized sit around and bash the guys for being *s or low-lifes?  Probably.

 

DaRick Rodgers is the same way as Hughes, physically-gifted, who made a few mistakes in college.  I will go out on a limb here and say that a lot of players in college smoke pot and don't get caught for it.  DaRick has been clean (or at least passed his tests) for well over a year now.  It sounds like his work ethic is questionable, but I like his quote the other day - something like "Coach Pagano sat me down and said 'this is how we do things here, this is how it is giong to be.  are you going to be able to handle that?' and I said 'Yessir, I can do that.'"   I think Pagano already put him on a tight leash, if he screws up, he is gone.  If he can be like Montori and latch onto a guy like Reggie Wayne, who knows, maybe he can grow up a little and be a productive player and citizen in Indy.

 

Those are the only 2 guys with 'character issues' that I can think of that we have brought in this season.  Neither of them have acted up at all, so far.  If they do, I think they know that they are on a tight leash and I think we just made it clear by releasing Boyett that we won't tolerate these things.

 

Lefeged was arrested for fleeing from police with a gun that he had legally licensed to carry very close to where he was.  He was over the state-line, so technically it would have been illegal for him to carry a gun the spot where he was.  Fleeing from the police is where he made a mistake here, and where I could think of 'character issues', but we don't know the story.  I am a little concerned that he had a gun in the first place after dark, but that doesn't make him a 'bad character' -- a lot of people carry licensed weapons and a lot of people carry unlicensed weapons -- the fact that his was licensed leads me to believe that he doesn't have a bad track record (at least not bad enough to warrant him not being able to carry a licensed weapon).  Nobody knows why he ran, I am not even sure why he was confronted by the cops.  Unfortunately, a lot of black males get approached by cops late at night, this could have very well been the case, or maybe he did something stupid to draw attention to himself, I don't know.  He could very well have ran thinking "Oh crap, if these guys search me and find that I am over state-line I could get arrested for unlawful gun possession and the NFL will think I'm the next Aaron Hernandez".  Fact is, I have never heard of Lefeged shooting anyone, harming anyone, having intent to harm anyone, or anything else about him with off-the-field issues.  Grigson told the media he was very disappointed in this, and I am sure that Lefeged had a long meeting with Grigs, Irsay, and Pagano behind closed doors -- if they felt he was the next Hernandez, or a threat to society, I don't think he'd be with us.  I think he is a young guy that made a bone-head mistake, which could have very well been harmless -- if he got pulled over 20 miles away where he was licensed to carry, maybe he wouldn't have ran at all.

 

Levon Brazzill -- kid has great talent.  He got caught for a failed marijuana-test and has said he has put that behind him, realizing a career in the NFL is in jeopardy if he doesn't clean up his act.  I don't condone the fact that he failed the test, but I don't remember that being an issue any time prior to him joining the Colts and it hasn't been an issue since.  I am sure he had a long talk behind closed doors with the coaching staff and front office, convinced them he was putting dope behind him and they told him he is on a short leash.  Again, I don't condone this, but it is not like he has a reputation as a bad character for years and the Colts are bringing him in.  To my knowledge, he had nothing previous on his record prior to the Colts drafting him, and has only made one off-field mistake since being here.  He is about to start his 2nd year in the NFL -- if he messes up again, I expect he will be canned, but I will not say that the Colts organization brought in a bad apple here.. he has been disciplined by the league, and has acted accordingly since.  Keep in mind, he is 23-24 years old -- there are a whole lot of 23-24 year olds in society that are probably still smoking pot -- doesn't make them all bad people, some will continue to smoke pot and do drugs, and others will grow out of it -- let's hope that Brazzill learned his lesson and has grown out of it.

 

Pat McAffee -- he seems like a class act.  He was arrested because he got drunk and jumped in a canal.  He wasn't in a fight, he wasn't driving a car, he didn't cuss at the cops (he sounded like he was good and sloshed, but not like he was being aggressive or violent), he didn't shoot anyone, he was a few years younger then and he hasn't been in any trouble (that I know of) since.  He got a game suspension from the club and has since been one of our best players and seems to be very active in helping the community.

 

Fili Maoli -- I think he got a DUi before his rookie year and faced disciplinary action.  I have not heard of him doing anything out of line since.

 

John Boyett -- he was drunk and being a jerk.  He threw out the Colts name, he threatened violence on a cop, and he has never seen a down of NFL football -- and we have decent depth at safety.  We let him go almost immediately after our front office got their version of the story.  I think the fact that he isn't playing and probably wouldn't see the field until next year at earliest helped make this decision, but he made the most public embarassment to the franchise, and is, quite-frankly, expendable. 

 

I am sorry, but I do not see where the argument that the Colts might not care about being a classy franchise comes to play.  We have a few very young guys that haven't lived a perfect life -- and I am sure they all know that they are held on a tight leash.  If we were bringing in veterans with checkered pasts, who have proven to be locker room cancers, or failed multiple drug tests, I would be worried.  I think the worst that any of these guys could do to our team at this point is be laughed at, and dismissed.  I don't think DaRick Rodgers is a threat to be a cancer -- we have Reggie Wayne who I am sure would just say 'you are not even a has-been, you're a never were, pack your bags, kid.'

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MAC Walk On

MAC

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I put a lot of value on it.

 

I derive significantly greater pleasure from supporting teams if I happen to like/respect individual players. I want to be genuinely happy for them if they succeed. Obviously they need to be good enough to be reasonable competitive or I'll find something else to do with my time, but winning with a team you like feels like you're sharing an experience with friends. I have no interest in hiring detestable mercenaries to "just win". There is more to life (and sports) than that.

 

The thing is, I'm sure that most clubs fan bases consider their teams to be a "class organization".

 

Some teams have more rational and patient owners than others, and some employ better managers than others, and once in awhile a lousy culture will develop that needs to be dismantled - but even the most irritating owners tend to be responsible businessmen who aren't going to let problems fester long enough to reflect poorly on them. I doubt there are many fans out there saying "well our organization has NO character, I sure wish we were more like Indy".

 

It's amazing the influence that winning has on these characterizations. Indy, the Giants, NE, Pittsburgh are all the personification of class. Does that mean that KC been losing because they lack class? This gets a bit silly and self-indulgent. 

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crazycolt1 Ring of Honor

crazycolt1

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I put a lot of value on it.

 

I derive significantly greater pleasure from supporting teams if I happen to like/respect individual players. I want to be genuinely happy for them if they succeed. Obviously they need to be good enough to be reasonable competitive or I'll find something else to do with my time, but winning with a team you like feels like you're sharing an experience with friends. I have no interest in hiring detestable mercenaries to "just win". There is more to life (and sports) than that.

 

The thing is, I'm sure that most clubs fan bases consider their teams to be a "class organization".

 

Some teams have more rational and patient owners than others, and some employ better managers than others, and once in awhile a lousy culture will develop that needs to be dismantled - but even the most irritating owners tend to be responsible businessmen who aren't going to let problems fester long enough to reflect poorly on them. I doubt there are many fans out there saying "well our organization has NO character, I sure wish we were more like Indy".

 

It's amazing the influence that winning has on these characterizations. Indy, the Giants, NE, Pittsburgh are all the personification of class. Does that mean that KC been losing because they lack class? This gets a bit silly and self-indulgent. 

I very much agree. There are cases all over the NFL and away from the NFL where young people make mistakes. I sure made my share when I was a young man. The only person I ever hurt was myself. There are very few young men that get a pocket full of money and then not let it go to their head. If it's cars and speed it's flexing himself in front of his buddies. A lot get the 'look a me' attitude but that is part of growing up. Some grow up and some don't. Till that time can be determined everyone does deserve a second chance. If they can't grow up and face the fire then it's time to go. One of those players went into the HOF this year and his name is Cris Carter. If he didn't get a second chance we wouldn't be seeing him on a NFL show today. Michael Irvin is another example of a player who started down the wrong road. The history of the NFL has always had their share of bad or in trouble young men. Before the media had it's camera stuck in every nook of the NFL bad boys were overlooked and protected. So this is nothing new.

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Nostrils Walk On

Nostrils

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I very much agree. There are cases all over the NFL and away from the NFL where young people make mistakes. I sure made my share when I was a young man. The only person I ever hurt was myself. There are very few young men that get a pocket full of money and then not let it go to their head. If it's cars and speed it's flexing himself in front of his buddies. A lot get the 'look a me' attitude but that is part of growing up. Some grow up and some don't. Till that time can be determined everyone does deserve a second chance. If they can't grow up and face the fire then it's time to go. One of those players went into the HOF this year and his name is Cris Carter. If he didn't get a second chance we wouldn't be seeing him on a NFL show today. Michael Irvin is another example of a player who started down the wrong road. The history of the NFL has always had their share of bad or in trouble young men. Before the media had it's camera stuck in every nook of the NFL bad boys were overlooked and protected. So this is nothing new.

 

 

yep... i dig it

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loudnproudcolt Walk On

loudnproudcolt

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I put a lot of relevance also in thinking of Indianapolis as a classy organization. I think it is important for the fact it represents stability. Many players who are of questionable character go to organizations who are of questionable character, and do to the lack of stability and discipline, never realize their true potential, or worse get kicked out of football completely. Stability and regimen can determine "certain" types of players future path. So yes I think it is very important.

 

One more thing. If you go to almost anyone in the media and ask them who is the best run organization, 9/10 will come back and say New England. We may not like it here in Indy, but that is the truth. Now look at Bill Belicheck and tell me he does not take chances on questionable characters. Hernandez, Dennard last year and was not released afteer his second DUI over the summer. Going well back, Corey Dillon. Randy Moss is a perfect example. Great player, but in Oakland he did not thrive because of the atmosphere. Went to N.E. and thrived. Yes a lot of it was because of Tom Brady, but having stability, a regimen and a standard to live up to makes a huge difference. So sometimes the classy organization may have a few troubled individuals because they feel they can get the most out of them and keep them on the straight and narrow path. Does not always work, but I don't think it Saints our image, which is very good!

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braveheartcolt Practice Squad

braveheartcolt

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I put a lot of value on it.

 

I derive significantly greater pleasure from supporting teams if I happen to like/respect individual players. I want to be genuinely happy for them if they succeed. Obviously they need to be good enough to be reasonable competitive or I'll find something else to do with my time, but winning with a team you like feels like you're sharing an experience with friends. I have no interest in hiring detestable mercenaries to "just win". There is more to life (and sports) than that.

 

The thing is, I'm sure that most clubs fan bases consider their teams to be a "class organization".

 

Some teams have more rational and patient owners than others, and some employ better managers than others, and once in awhile a lousy culture will develop that needs to be dismantled - but even the most irritating owners tend to be responsible businessmen who aren't going to let problems fester long enough to reflect poorly on them. I doubt there are many fans out there saying "well our organization has NO character, I sure wish we were more like Indy".

 

It's amazing the influence that winning has on these characterizations. Indy, the Giants, NE, Pittsburgh are all the personification of class. Does that mean that KC been losing because they lack class? This gets a bit silly and self-indulgent.

'Reasonably competitive'......Sheffield Wednesday?

I kid, I kid!

Agree with all you say.

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Buck Showalter Walk On

Buck Showalter

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The guys making bone-head moves aren't the guys who give pre or post game interviews...

So none of these more recent incidents should be a big issue in the grand scheme of the organizations image....

guys lie Wayne & even young Luck are the epitome of class so the Colts image will stay positive, but a little attitude could be a good thing for the Colts...

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GoColts8818 Ring of Honor

GoColts8818

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The class organization stuff went out the window with Dungy.  It's not to say guys like Polian, Caldwell, Pagano, and Grigson don't value class but I don't it's as important to them as it was to Dungy.  With that said even Dungy had his problem children here at times as well.  Dungy's big secret was connecting with the guys like a father and like anyone who respects their father the guys didn't want to disappoint him.  I think Caldwell and Pagano connect with the players just in a different way.  I think the guys last year loved Chuck as much as some of them loved Dungy but I don't know if any of them viewed him as a father figure like a lot of guys did with Dungy. 

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Dustin Walk On

Dustin

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How many td's did he give up? how many times did he get beat deep?

 

He was thrown at 107 times and gave up 66 catches (61.7% completion) for 715 yards and 5 TDs. He also was tied for league lead among CBs in missed tackles with 18.

 

For comparison Cassius Vaughn allowed 66 catches for 794 yards and 5 TDs.

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Gavin Walk On

Gavin

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He was thrown at 107 times and gave up 66 catches (61.7% completion) for 715 yards and 5 TDs. He also was tied for league lead among CBs in missed tackles with 18.

 

For comparison Cassius Vaughn allowed 66 catches for 794 yards and 5 TDs.

link?

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SteelCityColt Hall of Famer

SteelCityColt

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'Reasonably competitive'......Sheffield Wednesday?

I kid, I kid!

Agree with all you say.

 

Beats being a Preston fan, but then again we're regarded (I think) as a "classy" organisation which is something I take pride in. Talking football now (the soccer kind for our American friends) I'd rather support a poorly performing team that has a good history and tradition who works actively in the community than some mega buck club that's bought it's way to success. 

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Gavin Walk On

Gavin

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True but you choose to be a supporter of the Colts and indirectly then support the choices and actions of members of that organisation. Your not going to go around wearing a Hernandez jersey for instance...

So just because I support the Colts I am supporting them starting literally the worst Guard I have ever seen at RG in my soon to be 18 years of watching them? You can support your team without having to like literally ANY moves they make

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SteelCityColt Hall of Famer

SteelCityColt

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So just because I support the Colts I am supporting them starting literally the worst Guard I have ever seen at RG in my soon to be 18 years of watching them? You can support your team without having to like literally ANY moves they make

 Understand your point but poor roster building is a whole different kettle of fish to condoning poor player behavior say. 

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Warhorse Walk On

Warhorse

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 I am supporting them starting literally the worst Guard I have ever seen at RG in my soon to be 18 years of watching them?

Let me guess.....you have stats to support that opinion. Not trying to jump on you, I just find absolute statements like this hard to get behind.

 

I do recognize the fact that you have done a much better job of not dissing oline players. Well done.

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