would you support a trade, fleener to new England

[UKColt13]

Idk maybe then we could package than up and next years 1st too to get clowney or lee

Not quite sure wher Clowney would fit in our Defense. He is a straight up 4-3 end, don't get me wrong, he is an outstanding 4-3 end. But I can see him floundering a bit like Freeney did, especially in coverage, if you put him in a base 3-4.

[Franklin County]

Let me think about that for a minute    ummmmmmmmm NO!

[bayone]

If someone wants to overpay for a player, I have no problem trading a player to a rival.

 

That said,  as many in this thread have noted, Fleener is just not going to command a 1st round draft pick from anyone.  Teams aren't that desperate for a tight end.  Not even the Patriots.   Especially a tight end whose strength is playing off the line,  and not next to the tackle.

 

Not happening.

 

 

Ex Giants Ballard that Patriots got off waiver wire unexpectedly for Giants is healthy & good

[Gavin]

Fleener for what going to be pick in the 20's and at the very most a mid rounder? Ill pass

[throwing BBZ]

Fleener had 3 less catches (26), 2 fewer fumbles (0) and 1 more TD (2) than Clark had his 1st year and Clark had a very accurate thrower.

 

 And I betcha he has more catches in yr  two than Clark`s (25)

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Really, I can't wait for the season to start!! And for the record NO I would NEVER HELP NEW ENGLAND!

[GoColts8818]

No

[seeblu]

OH YIPPEE!!!!!! Let's trade a TE to Bellychuck's Patriots.  Can't think of another team more deserving of our help.  Can't imagine not wanting to help the New England Patriots. 

[NewColtsFan]

Fleener for what going to be pick in the 20's and at the very most a mid rounder? Ill pass

 

Can you re-write that and put it into English please?

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say....   feels like there are some words missing....

 

Thanks....

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Would colts consider trading fleener for new Englands first round next year. Just food for thought. May be a good replacement for Hernandez. I am a believer in fleeners potential.

 

I guess I don't understand the reasoning here...

 

The Colts draft Luck & Fleener one & two....then bring in their College Offensive Coordinator...then trade Fleener.

 

Hmmmmm doesn't really make simple sense.

 

Firstly, the Colts aren't trading any of their Tight Ends to a Division rival....especially a Franchise rival...secondly, if they were to do something that stupid, Fleener would be the last one they'd trade.

 

Seems like a poorly thought out brain fart that unfortunately made it's way to the boards.

[BProland85]

If some team were to give us a 1st for Fleener, no question I would do the trade. Do I think a team would give up a 1st though, no.

 

I would love to get WR Sammy Watkins next year in the draft and Fleener could be replaced especially if we have WRs like Hilton, DHB, and Watkins for our future.

[BOTT]

If some team were to give us a 1st for Fleener, no question I would do the trade. Do I think a team would give up a 1st though, no.

 

I would love to get WR Sammy Watkins next year in the draft and Fleener could be replaced especially if we have WRs like Hilton, DHB, and Watkins for our future.

He didn't say "some team", he said the Patriots, who could have a very low pick.

[Gavin]

Can you re-write that and put it into English please?

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say....   feels like there are some words missing....

 

Thanks....

Its simple really......If we trade Fleener to the Pats we will very likely be getting a pick somewhere at the very best in the 20's (and probably late 20's.....sure they wont likely have Hernandez or maybe even Gronk but they still have this guy named Brady and stellar O Line) of some round......Now given what Fleener did last year...his first year in the league.......I'd be very willing to bet that we would not get much at all for him.....Probably a 4th or 5th rounder at best at this point. Im certainly against trading him at this point regardless besides the obvious....He is only entering his 2nd year

[Superman]

I guess I don't understand the reasoning here...

 

The Colts draft Luck & Fleener one & two....then bring in their College Offensive Coordinator...then trade Fleener.

 

Hmmmmm doesn't really make simple sense.

 

Firstly, the Colts aren't trading any of their Tight Ends to a Division rival....especially a Franchise rival...secondly, if they were to do something that stupid, Fleener would be the last one they'd trade.

 

Seems like a poorly thought out brain fart that unfortunately made it's way to the boards.

Everything you say is true, particularly with regard to the structure the Colts have in place, which should be beneficial for Fleener. But virtually everyone has a price. Fleener isn't untouchable, and an extra first rounder is a valuable commodity, even if it means helping a conference rival.

Personally, I wouldn't do this trade. I might have done this in April for a first rounder in the 2013 draft, but not for a pick in next year's draft. We'd be weakening our roster now for a payoff next year. Teams usually only do that if there are major money considerations or character issues, neither of which is at play with Fleener.

Then there's the fact, as many have mentioned, that the Patriots wouldn't give up a first rounder for Coby Fleener, even if they are desperate for tight ends. I should also mention that the Patriots aren't desperate for tight ends. They have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick; they'll be fine.

[coltsfanatic24]

I would not trade Fleener for a 1st i think he'll put up great numbers this year. They're aren't many 6'6 250 lbs TE's that run 4.5, the only other guy is Graham. Fleener has great potential and with Pep Hamilton here should thrive in the offense.

[krunk]

No, No, NO, Heck No, and NO! I hope you got the point sir

[ColtStrong]

Where's the Steve Carrell "NO" gif when you need it?

 

 

[BOTT]

Its simple really......If we trade Fleener to the Pats we will very likely be getting a pick somewhere at the very best in the 20's (and probably late 20's.....sure they wont likely have Hernandez or maybe even Gronk but they still have this guy named Brady and stellar O Line) of some round......Now given what Fleener did last year...his first year in the league.......I'd be very willing to bet that we would not get much at all for him.....Probably a 4th or 5th rounder at best at this point. Im certainly against trading him at this point regardless besides the obvious....He is only entering his 2nd year

A 4th or 5th at best? I think you are nuts.

[CanuckColt]

I would not trade Fleener for a 1st i think he'll put up great numbers this year. They're aren't many 6'6 250 lbs TE's that run 4.5, the only other guy is Graham. Fleener has great potential and with Pep Hamilton here should thrive in the offense.

Yeah, Fleener will look better under Pep...because Pep is going to use him as a receiver and not waste time trying to get him to develop into a reasonable blocker...because Fleener can't block worth a darn.  Someone else will have to do Fleener's blocking work for him.

[weslo1812]

Yeah and what you wanna bet if the colts were to make this move and he went to New England the media and everyone would blow him up make him sound like he's gonna be a great player will be a prolific weapon for Brady. They would make it sound like its one of the greatest moves ever made. Just because its New England and yes the do have Brady which is significant. But yet while he's with us you won't hear hardly nothing and if it is something it will probably be negative. Now I I highly doubt this move would be made and I think Fleener will become a lg it weapon in our offense. I just think he needed a little more time to adjust than poeople anticipated. Point is if it happened the experts would probably say that New England is now the team to beat in the NFL.

[NewEra]

Smh...

[weslo1812]

Yeah, Fleener will look better under Pep...because Pep is going to use him as a receiver and not waste time trying to get him to develop into a reasonable blocker...because Fleener can't block worth a darn. Someone else will have to do Fleener's blocking work for him.

You know I wonder if that's partially why we drafted Cunningham who is a solid blocker. So in double tight sets we can have him and Allen as the blocking TEs and throw Fleener in the slot. I'd assume mainly in Goaline situations. But I do wonder now if their thinking about trying make him more so a WR than an actual TE. I mean that's what he really is anyways.

[Gavin]

A 4th or 5th at best? I think you are nuts.

For a player that showed he was scared to go over the middle and had 26 catches and 2 td's? I certainly would not give up more then that at this point. Im not trading a draft pick for a player that will "potentially" make it big if Im a franchise. Teams would trade a higher pick for Dwayne Allen before they would Fleener, Allen is an all around TE and as athletic as Fleener

[NewColtsFan]

For a player that showed he was scared to go over the middle and had 26 catches and 2 td's? I certainly would not give up more then that at this point. Im not trading a draft pick for a player that will "potentially" make it big if Im a franchise. Teams would trade a higher pick for Dwayne Allen before they would Fleener, Allen is an all around TE and as athletic as Fleener

 

Not to be argumentative,  but I don't know what you saw that would tell you Coby is "afraid to go over the middle"....

 

You don't even know if he was ever given a route over the middle,  although off the top of my head he had one or two in week one vs. Chicago where he caught 6 or 7 passes that game.

 

I was incredibly critical of him during the season and it never occurred to me that he was afraid of anything.

 

I thought he had all the signs of the rookie jitters.   That the game seemed too big and too fast for him.  That he was thinking way too much and not playing relaxed, fast and loose.     I'm expecting that to change dramatically in this new offense.

 

I just don't know what you saw that would make you say that....    sorry, a head scratcher for me...

[ConBro]

I can't wait to see Fleener have a breakout season this year and all of the "traders" fall in love with him. can the season please, please, PLEASE start already?

 

Why would we wanna get rid of the jackhammer anyway?

[BleedBlu8792]

I think to many of you are looking at this from a FAN perspective and not a BUSINESS perspective. I took the OP's question as if I, or you, were a GM would I, or you, trade Fleener to New England for a 1st rounder, and that answer, without a doubt, is - HECK YEA I would. The Colts got him in the 2nd, early albeit, but if he can be flipped for a 1st I'd take it, especially with Allen on the roster and now Cunnigham.

 

I'd do the same with Reggie as well, and Reggie is one of my favorite players of all time. Skill position players, to me, can be replaced. Heck, New England has been doing this for years. They got rid of Richard Seymour when he was still one of the top-5 3-4 DE's in the league for a 1st rounder. They got Randy Moss for a 5th and sent him to the Vikings for a 2nd, I believe? The ability to keep adding good, young talent on the roster, especially through the draft, is what keeps certain teams afloat and at the top.

 

With the roster we had last year and the ability to win the games we did, granted we got a few bounces, we wouldn't hurt at all to flip certain players for the ability to sustain a great team for a long period of time again. Although, Luck would be the only guy on the roster who isn't expendable, and some of you know I'm no Luck fanboy, however everyone else on the roster is expendable and has a price if someone is willing to pay that price.

 

Business my peoples......

[Jason_]

For a player that showed he was scared to go over the middle and had 26 catches and 2 td's? I certainly would not give up more then that at this point. Im not trading a draft pick for a player that will "potentially" make it big if Im a franchise. Teams would trade a higher pick for Dwayne Allen before they would Fleener, Allen is an all around TE and as athletic as Fleener

OK I've never disagreed with you as much as I disagree with your comment that Allen is as athletic as fleener. Allen is a great all around tight end but in terms of raw athleticism? No he's not in fleener's zip code.

[crazycolt1]

I think most are jumping the gun on wanting Fleener gone. It is not unusual for a rookie receiver to be a very good in his first year. The average is 3 years for most to learn the craft and get used to the speed of the NFL. Last season he did have some injury and he was not used all that much in Arians offense. Luck was force feeding Wayne because he was the seasoned veteran who had the most ability to catch the ball. 5 of 7 of the receivers were rookies last season and Luck was glad he had Wayne. Fleener didn't all of a sudden forget how to play football. With the hiring of Pep and the connection in Stanford Fleener will do just fine. Besides, why would the Pats offer a 1st round pick for a player who was a 2nd round pick last year and is not a established veteran?  Now that I think about it why am I even commenting on this? lol

[crazycolt1]

Fleener had 3 less catches (26), 2 fewer fumbles (0) and 1 more TD (2) than Clark had his 1st year and Clark had a very accurate thrower.

 

 And I betcha he has more catches in yr  two than Clark`s (25)

I agree. Also some are making a big deal out of Fleeners lack of blocking skills. Dallas Clark was never known for his blocking skill just his catching ability. I will leave Fleeners blocking abilities to the coaches. He will improve in time.

[Jay Kirk]

He is the new Donald Brown or atleast is what it seems like.

Really hes been here one year and hurt,Your comparing him to DB ,wouldn't you consider it maybe just a little early for that comparison ?

[IrishColt22]

Not Fleener maybe saunders or jones for a fifth or sixth but thats only cause we won't have a fourth round pick and we are also losing a pick to the rams for the gordy trade in the next draft so would be nice to get one back.

[BleedBlu8792]

Not Fleener maybe saunders or jones for a fifth or sixth but thats only cause we won't have a fourth round pick and we are also losing a pick to the rams for the gordy trade in the next draft so would be nice to get one back.

Why would we lose a pick next year for Gordy? We gave up a pick for him last year I believe, so I don't know why we would next year.

[BOTT]

For a player that showed he was scared to go over the middle and had 26 catches and 2 td's? I certainly would not give up more then that at this point. Im not trading a draft pick for a player that will "potentially" make it big if Im a franchise. Teams would trade a higher pick for Dwayne Allen before they would Fleener, Allen is an all around TE and as athletic as Fleener

So you wouldn't trade for a player on potential.....but you would draft one? And stop with "scared over the middle" crap.....ur just pulling that out of your butt.

[schwamm]

Really hes been here one year and hurt,Your comparing him to DB ,wouldn't you consider it maybe just a little early for that comparison ?

If unwarranted helping of hate-orade is the point of comparison, it's probably a fair one.

That said, I think we should be better about separating discussion of the merits of a trade with critisism of a player. I'd prolly buy into the OPs trade, but am not knocking Fleener at all.

[mvbighead]

Nope.

 

We didn't use a 2nd and 3rd on TEs in ONE draft just to get rid of one of them the following season to help out a rival.  NE's best bet is to find the basketball/football tweener ala Jimmy Graham/Antonio Gates and give some athletic specimen a shot as an UDFA.

 

No chance they give up a 1st for Fleener.  No chance we get rid of him when we are bringing in a system that he has operated in for a couple of seasons.  We want to have two solid TEs.  They haven't even developed yet, and we're already talking about what ifs on trading one out?  I could understand if we brought in a coordinator who values big blocking TEs... but we brought in Fleener's former OC.  That is nothing but a positive for him at this point.

[jamesie jr]

Never in a million years. We have the potential for a TE duo like Gronk and Hernandez but without the problems. Why would we possibly want to trade that chance away?

[Valpo2004]

A 4th or 5th at best? I think you are nuts.

 

Maybe a 3rd for him.  He has potential but he didn't do a lot in his first year.

[Gavin]

So you wouldn't trade for a player on potential.....but you would draft one? And stop with "scared over the middle" crap.....ur just pulling that out of your butt.

lol evidently you dont pay attention to Colts games nearly as well as you think you do, go back and watch a couple of Lucks passes towards him that he didn't catch, He clearly pulled up several times because he was scared to take the hit.......As for drafting a player on potential, Would I draft a player on pure potential alone? Of course not, Would you draft a guy all because he looked great in shorts? I would hope not. Truth is your always drafting a player based on potential in the draft BUT there is a difference between drafting a player who has potential all because he is deemed an "athletic freak" and drafting  a player who has potential on your team who has a history of production.......Give me the guy the has potential on my team who has a history of production every time

[Superman]

lol evidently you dont pay attention to Colts games nearly as well as you think you do, go back and watch a couple of Lucks passes towards him that he didn't catch, He clearly pulled up several times because he was scared to take the hit.......As for drafting a player on potential, Would I draft a player on pure potential alone? Of course not, Would you draft a guy all because he looked great in shorts? I would hope not. Truth is your always drafting a player based on potential in the draft BUT there is a difference between drafting a player who has potential all because he is deemed an "athletic freak" and drafting  a player who has potential on your team who has a history of production.......Give me the guy the has potential on my team who has a history of production every time

How often does a second year player have a history of production? Especially at tight end? Do we need to pull out the first year stats of the best tight ends in the game again?

If you're talking about college production, I don't know what's wrong with 34 catches and 10 touchdowns at Stanford.

I think people are hyper critical of Coby Fleener right now. I guess that's to be expected, but that doesn't mean it isn't still a head scratcher.

[schwamm]

To me, the OP isn't asking what a fair price is for trading Fleener. Nor is it asking whether the Pats should want to do this deal or not. It is simply asking whether we, as supreme arbiters of GM activity, would consider a Pats' 1st for Fleener trade.

So to me, it come down to: regardless of his ceiling or floor, can the Colts be successful in 2013 without him? (for me, the answer is a "yes"); and can a player be found in the 2014 draft (either with that Pats' 1st, or by packaging to trade up) that provides more impact towards the Colts' continued success? (I don't know, haven't studied the 2014 talent enough, but I assume another "yes")

Frankly, I don't care if it helps the Pats, providing the answers to both questions above are "yes".

Do I imagine it will happen? Absolutely not. Do I think Fleener is garbage and needs to be shown the door? Again, absolutely not. But as a hypothetical possibility, I would trade Fleener for a Pats' 1st if I were GM.