Think we caught a Break on this Play....

[NewColtsFan]

Early in the game, Luck got drilled, and I mean DRILLED by the Packers OLB, Nick Perry.

Luck fumbled and the Packers recovered. But a flag was thrown on the Pack saying it was an illegal hit.

I don't think it was. The broadcasters -- including former coach Brian Billick didn't think it was.

I suspect the Packers will raise a little Heck with the NFL office this week. And I hope Perry doesn't get hit with a fine on top of it.

Think we got very lucky...

Here's the tape....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/andrew-luck-perseveres-lead-colts-upset-over-green-210323838--nfl.html

Perry hit Luck right in the chest... he was not trying for the head, and if there was any helmet to helmet contact, I think it was minimal at best.

p.s. -- I'm confident this will not be the popular view here on this website.... but, so be it.

[Nobody]

The issue wasn't helmet to helmet correct? The penalty was because he led with the crown of his helmet. I didn't see the play, but I read a review by a Packers fan of the game who said that it was absolutely the right call, and that he clearly broke the rule. Again, I didn't watch it, and I'm too lazy to click on your link so what do I know?

[BleedBlu8792]

Ehhh.. I thought it was a clean hit. The ref that threw the flag was behind Perry, and from that view and as fast as it happened it looked illegal, but the view straight on gave the perception, to me, that it was a legal hit.

The play the Colts got away with was the pass interference on the defender that Avery happened to shove out of the way. That should have been offensive PI or at the least a no call. The Packers got a bad one there, but I thought early on they were giving quite a bit of help to the Packers anyways. It all evened out in the end

[coltsfanmilyman]

Luck was asked about the hit in the presser, and he said “ya, I got popped" There was plenty of bad calls all day. Charles woodson was getting a piggy back ride from Wayne in the endzone. Bad calls happen....

[Gavin]

It was a bad call, the force of the hit jard the helmet to helmet hit, should not have been called

[BleedBlu8792]

Charles Woodson needs the nickname "Huggie".

[GoColts8818]

Mike Pereira who is the former head officials who also works for Fox tweeted right after the play that is was the right call. You can't lead with your helmet into the QB. It was called later in the day as well in the Saints/Chargers game that took a pick six away from the Chargers as well. You can argue it's not a fair rule or it's going over the top on protecting the QB but it was the right call.

[Ryan Pelley]

When they showed the replay in slo-mo, it looked like a clean hit. But watching it in full motion from the first angle, it looked like helmet to helmet. In full motion, it's probably what the referees saw, which is why it was called that.

[Indyswagger]

regardless of how we feel, the call was made. It does look like an illegal hit in real time and looks like a legal hit in slow motion. Until the refs have slow motion vision, we will have calls like this. It is only one call in the game, there were plenty of no calls that could have went either way

[Dan]

It was leading with the crown of the helmet which as far as I'm aware is against the rules - I believe the commentators said something about that. Was great to see Luck pop up after a hit like that.

Now one we really did catch a break on, was the PI call for Avery at the end. Terrible decision.

[Indra]

The issue isn't helmet to helmet, it's spearing. Proper tackling technique is to keep your head up, knees bent, arms wide. Put your head in front of the ball, hit with your shoulder, wrap up, and drive through. What clearly happens in this case is head down, and driving his helmet into the chest of Luck while lunging. It's dangerous for Luck and Perry, and it's illegal.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Another thing to consider is the refs are instructed to err on the side of the defenseless player. If a play looks like it was illegal in real time, then they must flag it. If in slo-mo replay it was only a grazing but wasn't truly helmet to helmet or such, then the league will still stand by it. And, as others have already pointed out, no player can lead with the crown of a helmet at a defenseless player (QB or receiver).

We did not catch a break, and Luck did get popped.

[lollygagger8]

That's ok, because the 4th and 1 play, Packers were clearly lined up in the nuetral zone, and instead we got called with a bogus penalty. There were quite a few missed calls in that game.

[USAFHoosier]

It was a bad call IMO. But there were plenty of no calls also...Example Woodson in the endzone on wayne. After wayne got pretty much tackled by woodson I called my brother and we both said we wanted the replacements back . Of course we were just kidding.

[ProblChld32]

Sure was a bad call AFTER the review but when the hit occurred it looked illegal IMO, but there was also quite a few crucial holding and PI calls that were missed. So personally i could care less that they hit Perry with that call.

[CR91]

the play was called right. you cant lead with the helmet.

[loluck]

Refs definitely gift wrapped this game. Total game changer.

[Warhorse]

How about the holding on the Packers o-line on early running plays in the first half?

He led with the crown of his helmet. The question is not whether it was helmet or helmet.

[The Fish]

It was a penalty if you ask me.

Thats not to say the Colts didn't get some help though.

The injuries, the int that hit the ground (did it?), the P/I that should of been on Avery, Aaaarrrron forgetting what planet he was on during the last play, the hand of God slapping that ball away on the last kick.

A remarkable win.

If I was a packer fan, that would have grossed me out.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Facemask in chest... Clean hit in my book.

Calls were missed on both sides... It happens.

[NewColtsFan]

Since I started this thread, I should respond....

If the issue is leading with the helmet, then I was wrong, and stand corrected.

But that's not how it was explained on TV yesterday. They didn't even bring up the 'leading with the helmet' scenario.... at least, not that I heard. Perhaps I missed it.

They were only talking about helmet to helmet hit...

But if that wasn't the issue, and many here in this thread are saying it wasn't, then I'm clearly wrong.

Spearing is not allowed. I get that. I'll have to take another look at it again.... I didn't think he speared, and I didn't think he led with the crown of the helmet. But it's worth another look....

My thanks to everyone for weighing in...

p.s. -- my other surprise, is so many people agreed that it didn't seem like an illegal hit. Pleased to see that here.

I will say this.... that might've been one of the best hits of the season so far. Very glad Luck seemed to shake it right off and keep on going.... breathed a BIG sigh of relief after that..!

[funktacious2]

Meh. Penalties go both way. We had a no call on pass interference that would have gotten us a TD rather than a field goal.

[oldunclemark]

Early in the game, Luck got drilled, and I mean DRILLED by the Packers OLB, Nick Perry.

Luck fumbled and the Packers recovered. But a flag was thrown on the Pack saying it was an illegal hit.

I don't think it was. The broadcasters -- including former coach Brian Billick didn't think it was.

I suspect the Packers will raise a little Heck with the NFL office this week. And I hope Perry doesn't get hit with a fine on top of it.

Think we got very lucky...

Here's the tape....

http://sports.yahoo....23838--nfl.html

Perry hit Luck right in the chest... he was not trying for the head, and if there was any helmet to helmet contact, I think it was minimal at best.

p.s. -- I'm confident this will not be the popular view here on this website.... but, so be it.

we got al kinds of breaks..we were lucky as heck..

The Packers lost three starters to injury..

..but we tookmadvanmatge of it and oit makesup for the loss to last place Jacksonville (1-4)..

[FightLikeSin]

It was a penalty if you ask me.

Thats not to say the Colts didn't get some help though.

The injuries, the int that hit the ground (did it?), the P/I that should of been on Avery, Aaaarrrron forgetting what planet he was on during the last play, the hand of God slapping that ball away on the last kick.

A remarkable win.

If I was a packer fan, that would have grossed me out.

oh boy. are people really going to be crediting divine intervention for Colts wins now? lol

[oldunclemark]

oh boy. are people really going to be crediting divine intervention for Colts wins now? lol

If that's true.......

Then the loss to Jacksonville.....had to be inspired from uh...'down below''

[GoColts8818]

Since I started this thread, I should respond....

If the issue is leading with the helmet, then I was wrong, and stand corrected.

But that's not how it was explained on TV yesterday. They didn't even bring up the 'leading with the helmet' scenario.... at least, not that I heard. Perhaps I missed it.

They were only talking about helmet to helmet hit...

But if that wasn't the issue, and many here in this thread are saying it wasn't, then I'm clearly wrong.

Spearing is not allowed. I get that. I'll have to take another look at it again.... I didn't think he speared, and I didn't think he led with the crown of the helmet. But it's worth another look....

My thanks to everyone for weighing in...

p.s. -- my other surprise, is so many people agreed that it didn't seem like an illegal hit. Pleased to see that here.

I will say this.... that might've been one of the best hits of the season so far. Very glad Luck seemed to shake it right off and keep on going.... breathed a BIG sigh of relief after that..!

Right the TV guys got it wrong. They have Mike Pereira on their pay role to explain this stuff and I was a little surprised they didn't go to him because he was right on twitter right afterwords explaining it. We can argue if it should be rule or not and frankly that's a very fair argument but it is the rule you can't lead with your helmet into a defenseless player and QB is judged to be a defenseless player.

With that said there were many other bad calls BOTH ways yesterday. Twice our guys got mugged in the endzone and we also got a very questionable PI call that went our way later in the game. I know there were more beyond that as well. This game is an example of why I didn't get too worked up about the replacement refs. The only difference is that spot light was on the replacement refs no one cares about the missed calls yesterday in our game. Heck you could even argue that the Packers have had more shaky calls go against them in the past two weeks than the replacement officials hit them with in the Seattle game.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Since I started this thread, I should respond....

If the issue is leading with the helmet, then I was wrong, and stand corrected.

But that's not how it was explained on TV yesterday. They didn't even bring up the 'leading with the helmet' scenario.... at least, not that I heard. Perhaps I missed it.

They were only talking about helmet to helmet hit...

But if that wasn't the issue, and many here in this thread are saying it wasn't, then I'm clearly wrong.

Spearing is not allowed. I get that. I'll have to take another look at it again.... I didn't think he speared, and I didn't think he led with the crown of the helmet. But it's worth another look....

My thanks to everyone for weighing in...

p.s. -- my other surprise, is so many people agreed that it didn't seem like an illegal hit. Pleased to see that here.

I will say this.... that might've been one of the best hits of the season so far. Very glad Luck seemed to shake it right off and keep on going.... breathed a BIG sigh of relief after that..!

OK, here is the relevant part of the rule-

"“It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: \

(1) QB in act of throwing or attempting to throw a pass

(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;

[. . .]

(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and

(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.”

Clearly, the helmet and facemask of the defender appeared to be in the NECK or even face area of the QB. Even if it slid up into it which is a further non no. The refs were given point of emphasis directives that they are to Always judge on the side of safety. Always. In real time, that was a no brainer. Even in slow motion replay, it appeared the ruling was correct. And if not to some, it is so darn close that the league will stand by the "error on the side of safety" ruling.

[JustAColtsFan]

It was leading with the crown of the helmet which as far as I'm aware is against the rules - I believe the commentators said something about that. Was great to see Luck pop up after a hit like that.

Now one we really did catch a break on, was the PI call for Avery at the end. Terrible decision.

Yes, that PI call happned right below me. The second I saw the flag I assumed it was on Avery as it was apparent to me that he had shoved the defender from behind. My husband who was watching at home said they were both shoving at each other several yards earlier so I guess he who shoves first gets flagged LOL!

[braveheartcolt]

we got al kinds of breaks..we were lucky as heck..

The Packers lost three starters to injury..

..but we tookmadvanmatge of it and oit makesup for the loss to last place Jacksonville (1-4)..

We got some breaks, but so did they. And please do not bring injuries into that argument, that is just stupid. We were down a few ourselves. This was the pre-season Super Bowl favourites, and had last year's MVP behind centre. We were 2-14, have a handful of trusty veterans and a very big gaggle of rookies. We were losing 21-3 at half time, and the were getting the ball back. And we won. If that is lucky I'm James Bond.

[JustAColtsFan]

It was a penalty if you ask me.

Thats not to say the Colts didn't get some help though.

The injuries, the int that hit the ground (did it?), the P/I that should of been on Avery, Aaaarrrron forgetting what planet he was on during the last play, the hand of God slapping that ball away on the last kick.

A remarkable win.

If I was a packer fan, that would have grossed me out.

That was absolutely an incomplete pass, the ball was bouncing back and forth between the defenders hand and face guard as he hit the ground - never had control of the ball.

[Coltswarriors]

They also missed the call where Luck threw a fade into the endzone (it was either to Wayne or Avery, can't remember) and the DB literally tugged his jersey down and no call. We settled for a FG.

Refs were average at best yesterday.

[Tree]

Not a helmet to helmet, but he definately lead with the crown of his head.

[JustAColtsFan]

OK, here is the relevant part of the rule-

"“It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are: \

(1) QB in act of throwing or attempting to throw a pass

(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;

[. . .]

(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and

(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.”

Clearly, the helmet and facemask of the defender appeared to be in the NECK or even face area of the QB. Even if it slid up into it which is a further non no. The refs were given point of emphasis directives that they are to Always judge on the side of safety. Always. In real time, that was a no brainer. Even in slow motion replay, it appeared the ruling was correct. And if not to some, it is so darn close that the league will stand by the "error on the side of safety" ruling.

Thanks, this makes it pretty clear that the ruling was correct. Now can your tell me - was the safety defenseless or not defenseless when Avery shoved him in the back LOL

[FireJimCaldwell]

I believe it would be hard to argue that Luck was "defenseless". So I'm not certain that portion of the rules apply. Some are arguing that the Packer lead with the crown of his helmet, and I can't see that in the film.

The contact in IMO was facemask/chest.

There is mention in the rulebook about the use of hairline/facemask against a defenseless player but again, I can't say that he was defenseless and I firmly believe that if that would have been 93 popping Rodgers that a lot of opinions would be flip-flopped.

This statement from the rule book sums it up.

When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback the Referee should always call roughing the passer.

With that said one would think it would be called more than it is.

They are going to rule in favor of protecting the quarterback 9/10 times.

[JustAColtsFan]

They also missed the call where Luck threw a fade into the endzone (it was either to Wayne or Avery, can't remember) and the DB literally tugged his jersey down and no call. We settled for a FG.

Refs were average at best yesterday.

Amen Brother, I was in the opposite corner of the stadium and I could see the tug on the jersey

[krunk]

Early in the game, Luck got drilled, and I mean DRILLED by the Packers OLB, Nick Perry.

Luck fumbled and the Packers recovered. But a flag was thrown on the Pack saying it was an illegal hit.

I don't think it was. The broadcasters -- including former coach Brian Billick didn't think it was.

I suspect the Packers will raise a little Heck with the NFL office this week. And I hope Perry doesn't get hit with a fine on top of it.

Think we got very lucky...

Here's the tape....

http://sports.yahoo....23838--nfl.html

Perry hit Luck right in the chest... he was not trying for the head, and if there was any helmet to helmet contact, I think it was minimal at best.

p.s. -- I'm confident this will not be the popular view here on this website.... but, so be it.

He didn't get drilled. He got SMOKED! That was a big one

[urbarra]

But in the first half the Colts got away with the penalty "Pretending to be an OL during a game." Normally a fine from the NFL league office follows. Fortunately, they found the real lineman and put them in their jerseys for the second half.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I believe it would be hard to argue that Luck was "defenseless". So I'm not certain that portion of the rules apply. Some are arguing that the Packer lead with the crown of his helmet, and I can't see that in the film.

The contact in IMO was facemask/chest.

I beg to differ.

There is mention in the rulebook about the use of hairline/facemask against a defenseless player but again, I can't say that he was defenseless and I firmly believe that if that would have been 93 popping Rodgers that a lot of opinions would be flip-flopped.

This statement from the rule book sums it up.

Yes, that is the point of emphasis where if it looks illegal, call it and error on the side of safety.

With that said one would think it would be called more than it is.

Only when the items mentioned above in my earlier post are seen.

They are going to rule in favor of protecting the quarterback 9/10 times.

Yes they do, when to above criteria is met. Attempting to throw a pass is a QB in the pocket looking downfield at his targets. Luck was definitely in that mode, not a QB that has pulled the ball in and began to run forward. Now he would not defenseless, unless he gives himself up on the run and slides feet first. That was definitely not the case. And here is proof the defender was in the neck area... not chest! It can be argued that the crown was seen used in real time... defender is definitely not eyes up for sure. He's head down and driving into a protected area. You forced my hand, here are the a couple pictures-

That, my friend, will get called every single time. Any part of the helmet in the NECK area is all it takes It doesn't matter that his arms are wrapping up around the QB, as stated in the rules I quoted earlier. That is text book roughing as per the recent rules. The refs got it right, much to the chagrin of all the old school I wanna see busted bones and squirting blood fans out there.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I still see facemask in chest....

[Gavin]

The force of the hit clearly caused Lucks head to whip forward and that was the reason for the helmet to helmet, a prime example of the league thinking they can stop all helmet to helmet hits, its impossible the type of helmet to helmet hit that should be flagged is the intentional helmet to helmet hit by Merriweather on Todd Heap a couple years ago