Phillip Dorsett will have a better season than Donte Moncrief.

[horseshoeblue22]

I tend to agree with you OP, but I do think you are being too hard on Moncrief. He was a third rounder in his rookie season, it's not like he has to blow up the stat sheets in order to show his worth. Just from watching him play on Sundays, I think it's pretty clear that he has great potential and has a chance to be a pretty damn good WR in this league.

I agree, he has potential and all the physical tools needed to be a top WR. But his game needs refined, he needs to develop, and that will take some time. To me, and maybe I am wrong, it looks like Grigson pulled the trigger on Dorsett in part because they were unhappy with Moncrief's rate of progression. I don't know why we are comparing him to Nicks, a guy that essentially got fired because he was not producing.

Let's see what Dorsett's got before we rush to label it a bad pick. Every indication is that our coaching staff sees him as a better WR than anyone on our team not named TY or Andre...or they wouldn't have picked him where they did. Every indication is that he is picking up the pro game very quickly and he will be a large part of our offensive game plans.

But as the saying goes...haters gonna hate.

[lollygagger8]

What if the Griffers came in and put up a 1000 yard season?? 

 

 

Seriously though.......I think our WR core is the best in the league. You can call me a homer, but I'd challenge anyone to find better. 

[BOTT]

You realize there is very small difference between a 1st and 2nd round pick, right? A 1st is one of 32 of the best players out of thousands of players. The 2nd round is one of the 64 best players out of thousands of players. The difference may be an inch or two in height or a tenth of a second in the 40 yard dash. A second round pick is a very valuable pick, especially when you spend three of them.

Grigson has never spent a first round pick on a WR before Dorsett. The scouts felt he was far and away the best value pick available. Malcom Brown, Eddie Goldman or whatever defensive pick wasn't a first round pick on their board. You can disagree with the scouts, but they have much more resources available to them to make these kinds of selections. They are the ones with their necks (and a possible Superbowl berth) on the line if the picks don't turn out. Maybe they thought Anderson and Parry would be just as effective as Brown and Goldman.

I am a Colts fan, so I am inclined to trust the people making the decisions for our team. If they feel Moncrief, Carter, Whalen and Brown aren't going to get us to the Superbowl, and Dorsett is the key...I trust them. I might not always agree, but we'll see what happens.

I'd rather have a carbon copy of TY than a carbon copy of Werner or Josh Chapman. I feel like other fans should feel the same way. Grigson couldn't justify using that pick on a defender with a 2nd round grade when he felt like there was an elite talent staring him back in the face. I am sure he didnt go into the draft thinking he was going to draft the best available WR no matter what. I am sure he looked at all the defensive guys on the board and figured Dorsett was just too talented to pass up.

You do realize when I said "I kid" I meant I was kidding....right?

As far as the rest of your post...yes, I understand how the draft works.

[BOTT]

What if the Griffers came in and put up a 1000 yard season?? 

 

 

Seriously though.......I think our WR core is the best in the league. You can call me a homer, but I'd challenge anyone to find better.

Steelers, Packers, Broncos could make a claim

[COLTS449]

They could just split reps as the 3rd receiver. I mean both are going to be really good receivers. Either way they'll both get a lot of snaps, and we're going to run a whole lot of 4 receiver sets. 

[Colts_Fan12]

I like Dorsett, but I still loath the pick.

yep same here

[Colts_Fan12]

Our forum last year: FEED MONCRIEF!!!

This year: Moncrief is ok but Dorsett is the best he is taking over for Andre Johnson!!!

Geez....

[MrNLM]

Our forum last year: FEED MONCRIEF!!!

This year: Moncrief is ok but Dorsett is the best he is taking over for Andre Johnson!!!

Geez....

This is a fair point.

 

The scenery has changed though and hardly anyone enjoys the old scenery more than the new in most any scenario. MOST any scenario, mind you...

[horseshoeblue22]

Our forum last year: FEED MONCRIEF!!!

This year: Moncrief is ok but Dorsett is the best he is taking over for Andre Johnson!!!

Geez....

 

Read my OP. I was calling out the forum for the "Feed Moncrief" stuff and saying it was way over the top. Several members of this forum were hyping up Da'Rick Rogers like he was going to be something great. Same with Duron Carter when we signed him from the CFL. "Boom" Herron is getting similar hype around here.

 

I am all for being optimistic as a fan, but I am also realistic and interested in communicating with people that are willing to look at their favorite team objectively and from an un-biased point of view. I know it is rare to find that on NFL message boards, maybe I am asking for too much.

 

But look at all the draft profiles on Dorsett before we picked him. Look at all the articles and comments about how he's already showing he can make an impact on our team. It's all glowing endorsements of the kid. "He takes the top off of a defense and throws it in the trash." "He is a nightmare in man coverage." "NFL comparison = TY Hilton...but he is a better, faster, more polished receiver than TY Hilton was coming out of Florida International." Compared to Antonio Brown of the Steelers. I could go on and on.

 

All indications are that we landed an elite talent in the first round. He could very well be the fastest player in the NFL. Moncrief's profiles labelled him as a guy who has the height/weight/speed combination that makes NFL scouts drool, but needs to develop his route running and become a more natural hands catcher. That's exactly what he was last year, and what he is expected to be this year.

 

The "Feed Moncrief" hype was ridiculous, and I didn't take part in it. I don't understand why people are in love with Moncrief, but outcast Dorsett because we used a 1st round pick on a WR instead of some defensive player. None of the defensive players on the board were worth as much as Dorsett, Grigson said so himself. When you are picking at slot #29, you have to take the best available player left.

 

Phillip Dorsett was the best available player left on the board. Why do some Colts fans refuse to buy into that? If you don't trust the ability of our scouts to recognize the best players out there, why be a fan of this team?

[Warhorse]

Fallacy #1 - The round a player is picked is an indicator of expected results (it is an indicator of perceived value based on odds)

 

Fallacy #2 - Rookies will come in and replace veterans (Rarely do rookies at any position supplant a vet..unless there is a void)

 

Fallacy #3 - Stats are an end all for comparison of talent (Scheme, coaches decision, match ups, etc...can severely alter stats)

 

Fallacy #4 - Receiving yards and TD's are the benchmark to rate WR's (Knowledge and protections are huge, especially with rooks)

 

Fallacy #5 - Rushing yards and TD's are the benchmark to rate RB's (Knowledge and protections are huge, especially with rooks)

[CanuckColt]

Geez...some people here think Dorsett is going to be the 2nd coming of Odell Beckam...it's not gonna happen.

He will be lucky to get on the field regularly by mid season...that boy has a heck-of-a-lot to learn about the NFL game and the Colts offense.

[Colts_Fan12]

Geez...some people here think Dorsett is going to be the 2nd coming of Odell Beckam.

Can say that again

[horseshoeblue22]

So because I think Dorsett was a good pick, is more talented than Donte Moncrief and that he will see the field this year as our WR3 that means that I think he will match the greatest season a rookie WR has ever had? Wow, talk about a stretch of the imagination...

He doesn't have to be the "second coming of Odell Beckham" to be worth the pick...thats crazy.

[Chucklez]

Steelers, Packers, Broncos could make a claim

Steelers? Really?

 

Outside of Antonio Brown, would you take any of their WR's over ours? I wouldnt...

[horseshoeblue22]

Steelers? Really?

Outside of Antonio Brown, would you take any of their WR's over ours? I wouldnt...

To be clear, I'd take our group of WR/TEs with a slight edge over Pitts... but I would take Martavis Bryant before Donte Moncrief.

He had a much better rookie season. Spare me the "stats don't tell the whole story" cliche.

[Chucklez]

To be clear, I'd take our group of WR/TEs with a slight edge over Pitts... but I would take Martavis Bryant before Donte Moncrief.

He had a much better rookie season. Spare me the "stats don't tell the whole story" cliche.

 

I wont give you stats, but I will say that Martavis Bryant had a lot more playing time than Moncrief and that Bryant is a one trick pony, like Wallace was with them. 

I also wouldnt say his rookie season was much better that Moncriefs either.

[horseshoeblue22]

I wont give you stats, but I will say that Martavis Bryant had a lot more playing time than Moncrief and that Bryant is a one trick pony, like Wallace was with them.

I also wouldnt say his rookie season was much better that Moncriefs either.

Really? Are you serious? Bryant didn't even suit up for the first six regular season games. Despite this, he had more yards and three times as many TDs than Moncrief...while Moncrief played in eight more career games than Martavis did. Bryant was effective as a deep threat and a red zone target. He had more TDs in his first three NFL games than Moncrief had all year.

When Bryants role expanded, Pitts offense took off. When Moncriefs role expanded, Indys offense took a step back.

Whats next? Are you going to argue that Erik Walden is as good as Clay Matthews because Clay has a lousy hair due?

[Archer]

Whats next? Are you going to argue that Erik Walden is as good as Clay Matthews because Clay has a lousy hair due?

 

Whats next? Are you going to argue that Erik Walden is as good as Clay Matthews because Clay has a lousy hair due?

 

When is his hair due back at the hair depository?

[pgt_rob]

Feed Moncrief was more of a college thing. It was said on here, but not much. I don't see how you think it was huge on this forum. Moncrief was a 3rd stringer last season and he's probably going to be a 3rd stringer this season as well.

[lollygagger8]

Steelers, Packers, Broncos could make a claim

 

I think we are much deeper at WR than all those teams. 

[horseshoeblue22]

Feed Moncrief was more of a college thing. It was said on here, but not much. I don't see how you think it was huge on this forum. Moncrief was a 3rd stringer last season and he's probably going to be a 3rd stringer this season as well.

I didn't follow Moncrief in college so you might be right...but it got pretty popular among general Colts fans as well. On this forum, NFl.com comments and all over the web.

People could hardly even mention Moncrief without the "Feed Moncrief" slogan, similar to Dan Herron and his "Boom" moniker.

As far as "hair due", typos and misspellings happen. You say potato and I bungle it and say potaytoe

[pgt_rob]

I didn't follow Moncrief in college so you might be right...but it got pretty popular among general Colts fans as well. On this forum, NFl.com comments and all over the web.

People could hardly even mention Moncrief without the "Feed Moncrief" slogan, similar to Dan Herron and his "Boom" moniker.

As far as "hair due", typos and misspellings happen. You say potato and I bungle it and say potaytoe

 

yeah. It was Moncrief's "slogan" in college. Then some fans who followed him during college tried to spread the same in the pro's but it's tough when you're back in the depth chart. Maybe once he's a true #1 or #2, he will regain that back. Who knows.

[ProblChld32]

Whoaaaa lets not go making any rash statements. Donte has had the ability to play and learn under one of the greatest Reggie Wayne and now will be playing under AJ. Moncrief has Size and Speed, Dorsett just has speed. Not to mention last season Moncrief played behind. TY, Wayne, Nicks and Fleener. IMO Moncrief has the upper hand. He has more NFL experience is much more assimilated with the speed of the game and has the playbook down. 

[horseshoeblue22]

yeah. It was Moncrief's "slogan" in college. Then some fans who followed him during college tried to spread the same in the pro's but it's tough when you're back in the depth chart. Maybe once he's a true #1 or #2, he will regain that back. Who knows.

I guess it makes more sense to me now. I thought it was just a trendy way to say the coaching staff needs to get him the ball more or get him more involved. Thanks for filling me in on that, never really understood it.

[Superman]

The "Feed Moncrief" hype was ridiculous, and I didn't take part in it. I don't understand why people are in love with Moncrief, but outcast Dorsett because we used a 1st round pick on a WR instead of some defensive player. None of the defensive players on the board were worth as much as Dorsett, Grigson said so himself. When you are picking at slot #29, you have to take the best available player left.

 

There's a lot going on here. I'd like to separate the Dorsett issue (which I mostly agree with you on) from Moncrief's potential. 

 

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4350/

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46395/349/donte-moncrief-metric-allstar

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/49629/412/donte-moncriefs-metrics

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/donte-moncrief-1.html

 

Moncrief has a rare combination of size and athleticism. He broke out at a younger age than most college receivers, when as a 19 year old sophomore, he by far led Ole Miss in yards from scrimmage and TDs. Everything about him suggests that he has a very high ceiling, and his explosive production in limited reps as a rookie seems to confirm that he'll be a big time playmaker in the NFL. He also works his butt off, which is evident when you watch him play, especially when he's blocking downfield. 

 

I'll be the first to point out that he's raw and has several things he needs to improve on. Ironically, Dorsett is better at going up and highpointing the football than Moncrief, despite the four inch height difference. Moncrief doesn't have a problem with drops, but he needs to use his hands and length better in order to expand his catch radius. If he figures that out, he can be one of the most dangerous players in the league, virtually uncoverable. That's to say nothing of the anticipated improvement in route-running as he gets more reps and pro practice and coaching.

 

I like a lot about Dorsett, and I'm fine with his value at #29. Still, let's not sell Moncrief short in order to make a point about Dorsett.

[throwing BBZ]

Phillip Dorsett is not our "4th wide receiver at best." He is our 3rd WR target, and the heir apparent to Andre Johnson two or three years down the road.

 

He will finish the season with more yards, more catches, more targets and more touchdowns than Donte Moncrief.

 

Donte Moncrief is a talented player, but I think he is pretty overrated around here. It reminds me of how fans were labeling Da'Rick Rogers as the "next Marvin Harrison" after he had a 100 yard game or two. The "Feed Moncrief" trend got a little too much traction, we all have to admit. Moncrief is still a VERY raw route runner, and only seems to excel at deep passes.

 

Raw stats don't tell the whole story, but let's look on Moncrief's rookie season.

 

32 Catches, 444 Yards, 13.9 YPC average, 3 TDs

 

He had two 100 yard games. One against the Steelers (113) where he had a 52 yard catch. The other came against the Redskins (134) where 79 yards came on one catch. Over 1/4 of his total yardage came off of two catches.

 

Only two other times (JAX, week 3 and CIN, wildcard) did Moncrief even have 50 yards receiving in a game.

 

You can argue that Moncrief was under utilized last season, but is he really any different than a LaVon Brazill or Da'Rick Rogers? He has immense physical talent, but the reason he fell to the 3rd round to begin with is because he is lacking the refined skills of an NFL wide receiver. He is not a natural catcher, he runs a limited route tree, isn't as fast as Dorsett, and isn't an excellent run blocker.

 

Meanwhile, the coaching staff can't stop saying good things about Dorsett long enough to say anything about Moncrief. 

 

 Backwards?

 Dorsett is the heir apparent to TY Hilton, right?

 Da`Rick at 6'3" 215 lbs the next Marvin? !

And Moncrief is the heir apparent to Andre Johnson, right?

[BOTT]

I wont give you stats, but I will say that Martavis Bryant had a lot more playing time than Moncrief and that Bryant is a one trick pony, like Wallace was with them. 

I also wouldnt say his rookie season was much better that Moncriefs either.

Bryant isn't a one trick pony....and looked more polished as a receiver than Moncrief. But honestly, I thought Marcus Wheaton had a better season than what he actually did.

[Gavin]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

 

Actually according to the football media website Moncrief had 116 more offensive snaps then Bryant

[Superman]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

 

Actually according to the football media website Moncrief had 116 more offensive snaps then Bryant

 

Bryant wasn't active until Week 7. Per game, Bryant had 27 offensive snaps/game, and Moncrief had 22 offensive snaps/game, according to FO's stats.

[horseshoeblue22]

There's a lot going on here. I'd like to separate the Dorsett issue (which I mostly agree with you on) from Moncrief's potential. 

 

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4350/

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46395/349/donte-moncrief-metric-allstar

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/49629/412/donte-moncriefs-metrics

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/donte-moncrief-1.html

 

Moncrief has a rare combination of size and athleticism. He broke out at a younger age than most college receivers, when as a 19 year old sophomore, he by far led Ole Miss in yards from scrimmage and TDs. Everything about him suggests that he has a very high ceiling, and his explosive production in limited reps as a rookie seems to confirm that he'll be a big time playmaker in the NFL. He also works his butt off, which is evident when you watch him play, especially when he's blocking downfield. 

 

I'll be the first to point out that he's raw and has several things he needs to improve on. Ironically, Dorsett is better at going up and highpointing the football than Moncrief, despite the four inch height difference. Moncrief doesn't have a problem with drops, but he needs to use his hands and length better in order to expand his catch radius. If he figures that out, he can be one of the most dangerous players in the league, virtually uncoverable. That's to say nothing of the anticipated improvement in route-running as he gets more reps and pro practice and coaching.

 

I like a lot about Dorsett, and I'm fine with his value at #29. Still, let's not sell Moncrief short in order to make a point about Dorsett.

 

It was never my intention to sell Moncrief short. He has all the physical attributes to be a great WR, but the production isn't there. 27 YPG is the same no matter how much you slice it. Even when he got more snaps, he was producing at the same level.

 

My point was that it is not impossible to see Dorsett passing him on the depth chart.

[Peterk2011]

It was never my intention to sell Moncrief short. He has all the physical attributes to be a great WR, but the production isn't there. 27 YPG is the same no matter how much you slice it. Even when he got more snaps, he was producing at the same level.

 

My point was that it is not impossible to see Dorsett passing him on the depth chart.

 

What was your intention then? You wrote a whole bunch of reasons why Moncrief's rookie season was not so impressive, but - as you noted - watch out for Dorsett. Watch out for a guy who has some nice college tapes but doesn't have a single catch in the NFL yet.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Dorsett, I hope he'll be a stud eventually. And I don't really mind Grigson took him in the first round. If Dorsett was on the top of their board, then so be it. I just don't see what Moncrief has to do with that. Especially, because they are different types of receivers, who may have different roles in the future. Moncrief is more of an X receiver, a potential successor for Andre Johnson's current job at #1, while Dorsett & Hilton are more Z or Y guys.

[horseshoeblue22]

What was your intention then?

To tell it like it is. A cars salesman will talk up a 96 Chevy, and sugarcoat it. I'll tell you its a 96 Chevy, this is what it does well and what it doesnt do well.

Some people believe Moncrief is a Cadillac Escalade, and I will tell you hes a 96 Chevy. Get the analogy? Dont believe he is something hes not.

[Stephen]

Geez...some people here think Dorsett is going to be the 2nd coming of Odell Beckam...it's not gonna happen.

He will be lucky to get on the field regularly by mid season...that boy has a heck-of-a-lot to learn about the NFL game and the Colts offense.

dorsett will be a beast as long as he stays healthy

[mattceinicram]

I think we will have more passing yards than any other team in the league. That's my prediction.

[ColtsLegacy]

To tell it like it is. A cars salesman will talk up a 96 Chevy, and sugarcoat it. I'll tell you its a 96 Chevy, this is what it does well and what it doesnt do well.

Some people believe Moncrief is a Cadillac Escalade, and I will tell you hes a 96 Chevy. Get the analogy? Dont believe he is something hes not.

You should really try to erroneously degrade Moncrief some more, it's really helping you make your point . . . Oh I know, it wasn't your intention to degrade Moncrief.

[horseshoeblue22]

You should really try to erroneously degrade Moncrief some more, it's really helping you make your point . . . Oh I know, it wasn't your intention to degrade Moncrief.

Ok, I am done. You've convinced me. Moncrief is a super elite, awesome epic WR. Theres only two WRs in the league better than Moncrief, they are TY Hilton and Andre Johnson. I mean Andre Johnson couldn't even hold Donte's jock strap last year, but this year...I dont know whats different. He just looks so...REFRESHED. He found the fountain of youth, its incredible. Its impossible to think a rook could ever outproduce this guy. The top 5 WRs in NFL history are Marvin Harrison, Donte Moncrief, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon and Da'Rick Rogers. Boom Herron is the best RB ever born. Bob Sanders once tackled the Earth and the dinosaurs were born.

#Homerism

#UsedCarSalesman

[ColtsLegacy]

Ok, I am done. You've convinced me. Moncrief is a super elite, awesome epic WR. Theres only two WRs in the league better than Moncrief, they are TY Hilton and Andre Johnson. I mean Andre Johnson couldn't even hold Donte's jock strap last year, but this year...I dont know whats different. He just looks so...REFRESHED. He found the fountain of youth, its incredible. Its impossible to think a rook could ever outproduce this guy. The top 5 WRs in NFL history are Marvin Harrison, Donte Moncrief, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon and Da'Rick Rogers. Boom Herron is the best RB ever born. Bob Sanders once tackled the Earth and the dinosaurs were born.

#Homerism

#UsedCarSalesman

That's just embarrassing.

[Superman]

To tell it like it is. A cars salesman will talk up a 96 Chevy, and sugarcoat it. I'll tell you its a 96 Chevy, this is what it does well and what it doesnt do well.

Some people believe Moncrief is a Cadillac Escalade, and I will tell you hes a 96 Chevy. Get the analogy? Dont believe he is something hes not.

 

Right, because you have a monopoly on reality. Anyone who disagrees with you about this is basically either a lying used car salesman, or a blind homer. Is that it?

 

This kind of condescension and the sarcasm that follows is really boring. 

[Buck Showalter]

Whats next? Are you going to argue that Erik Walden is as good as Clay Matthews because Clay has a lousy hair due?

 

 

When is his hair due back at the hair depository?

I was drinking hot tea when I read this & literally LOL'd/spewed hot beverage all over my keyboard...

[horseshoeblue22]

Ok, listen, because this is the last time I'm going to respond to this Moncrief/Dorsett debate. Not because I am wrong, not because I'm right, but because its going no where. If you are interested in getting the last word in, feel free.

Moncrief is an incredible athlete. But he is a raw WR with inconsistent production. He is a big dude, but does not high point the ball well. He is fast, but doesn't have that "shake and bake" quickness out of his cuts. He blocks well, but not well enough to be considered an elite blocking WR. He averaged 27 ypg, no matter how you spin it or however many excuses you make for him. He is a great fourth option, a solid third option, but subpar as a first or second option. He could stand to improve, but is still very young, so time is on his side. He is an asset to our team, but a superstar he is not. Irreplacable he is not. Good chance a few rookie out produce him, whether its Amari Cooper, DeVante Adams, Kevin White or even Phillip Dorsett.

Thats what Donte Moncrief is. Excusing his lack of production and cherry picking stats to make him out to look like a more productive WR than he really was...thats sugar coating it. Thats what i meant by being a "used car salesman". You can't just look at stats like QBR and "average yards per coverage snap" (or whatever OP called it) and say "See, look, you're wrong. He had a super good year. Thats like the car salesman saying "Well, the battery won't start...but the engine's really good!" You have to look at the whole picture, or in this case, the whole car.

As far as Dorsett goes, he could post 5 catches or he could post 150 or somewhere in between. In my opinion, he is a better player than Donte. Other than his undeniable athleticism, there was nothing in Moncrief's 2014 performance that suggests he will be playing at a high lwvel for the next decade and a half. There are a dozen rookies every year that match or surpass Moncrief's rookie production. You can blame that on Nicks, Wayne, the coaches, the weather or the color of his socks, but the numbers don't lie. Production is everything.

Moncrief is solid as our slot WR, but we could do even better. Dorsett will be given every opportunity to push the veterans off the field, just like Moncrief was given every opportunity to unseat Nicks and Wayne last year. I believe he will capitalize on those opportunities. To suggest that Dorsett will be the "4th WR at best" this year (which many Colts fans said after the Dorsett pick) means that Dorsett will not be given an opportunity to earn reps from Moncrief. Moncrief was good, but not so good to believe no rookie could possibly come in and out produce him. By saying theres no way anyone could take his role, thats putting him on a pedestal...making him out to be something he is not.

If we had a WR group of Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones and TY Hilton, maybe its a different story. But Moncrief is not on that level. Maybe someday he will be, but that is speculation and wishful thinking.

To say hes got that role locked down is crazy, and borderline homerism. Theorhetically, no one on this team has their role locked down, especially not a player like Donte Moncrief. Grigson has been quoted in the past as seeing the roster as a "vat of competition". Every roster spot, every snap is up for grabs every season. If Dorsett out works Moncrief, he will get more snaps. If Griff Whalen out works TY Hilton,he will get more snaps.

At this point in his career, Moncrief is just a dude with poential. Nothing more, nothing less. Same goes for Dorsett really. It depends on who you think has more potential, and who can actually translate that potential into production on the football field. At this point, we have no real games to base our opinions on. So we speculate and reach conclusions. We disagree, but that's okay. I posted my stats, you posted yours. Were still butting heads, I don't know why.

I made the comparison to Twilight in another thread. This is a "Team Donte vs Team Phillip" crapfest. No ones right, no ones wrong...at least not until these guys actually step on the field and show what they got. Until then, Ill wear my Team Phillip shirt, you wear your Team Donte cap, and we can leave the blood sucking vampires out of this.