The 4th and 1 play. What bothers me

[coltsorioles]

As a lifelong football and colts fan many things about that play bother me. #1 why call the timeout? If you don't get it at least you have a chance to get th ball back with about a minute.  #2 tyler Goodson??????  They are paying Taylor all this money, and if not Taylor what about Zack moss, they both can catch the ball. It's like if your season is on the line and you have edgerrin James and  Dominic Rhodes you are not going to put in James mungro .   #3  the play itself we all knew it was going to him, and I thought before minshew threw it  it was 50/50 that he would catch it.  #4 they CLEARLY lined up offsides and not only was it not called has anyone in the media talked about it afterwards ? Penalty plain and simple. Would they have won the game ??  We will never know. Houston would have had to use all their timeouts so if the Colts scored good chance they would have won. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, coltsorioles said:

#3  the play itself we all knew it was going to him

 

Yet the Texans left him wide open... 

[lollygagger8]

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

It's a tough pill to swallow knowing we were a hair away from winning the Division and the way the last play went down. I was sick to my stomach all night and was thinking if we had done this or that different. I felt bad for Ballard too because he finally could have won a Division Title (we didn't know it at the time but when Jax lost on Sunday that would have been the case). So, no Monkey off the back yet for him either! I know it's hindsight, but I thought in real time - on that 4th and 1, I run Taylor. I am giving the ball to my best player who has 188 yards already. Pete Carroll got cute in the SB and didn't run Beast and it cost him a Championship.

[GoColts8818]

Been discussed to death in the post game thread.  It was what it was now.  

[Nesjan3]

Right play wrong personnel. You put the fate of your season in the hands of a practice squad running back and a backup QB who was having maybe his worst game of the season.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Nesjan3 said:

Right play wrong personnel. You put the fate of your season in the hands of a practice squad running back and a backup QB who was having maybe his worst game of the season.

 

I'm sensitive to the idea that it would have been better to have a different back in the game. It's not an idea that should be totally dismissed.

 

I just want to point out four things. 1) Taylor was hurt, clearly. 2) Moss had just come back from an injury. 3) The team has practiced that play with Goodson all year. 4) Any QB pass play had to go through Minshew, whether he was struggling or not.

 

As it stands, we asked our QB who started 14 games to make a simple throw to a RB who knows how to catch the ball. There's nothing reckless about this.

[PRnum1]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm sensitive to the idea that it would have been better to have a different back in the game. It's not an idea that should be totally dismissed.

 

I just want to point out four things. 1) Taylor was hurt, clearly. 2) Moss had just come back from an injury. 3) The team has practiced that play with Goodson all year. 4) Any QB pass play had to go through Minshew, whether he was struggling or not.

 

As it stands, we asked our QB who started 14 games to make a simple throw to a RB who knows how to catch the ball. There's nothing reckless about this.

I made the Taylor was hurt in the gameday thread.

 

@NFLfan pointed out to me that Taylor was in the play before.

 

Also in the 4th quarter the Texans were completely stuffing the run, so a pass play was not a bad call.

[jemack]

According to SS, that particular play is run in practice exclusively with Goodson and that's what they went with once they got a look at the Houston personnel during the timeout.

So...

[2006Coltsbestever]

To some of the posts above, I don't think it was a bad call by Steichen. The ball was catchable but had it been me, I would have gave it to Taylor and have faith in him getting 1 yard banged up or not. He was running wild all game. Then go from there. I said that to myself before the play was even called. I was thinking just give the ball to 28. When Taylor wasn't in, I knew we would pass, just wasn't sure what it would be.

[indyagent17]

Shane was NOT expecting to give the ball back to Houston until we scored. I like the call it worked! Minshew could muster an accurate throw. End of story 

[indyagent17]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm sensitive to the idea that it would have been better to have a different back in the game. It's not an idea that should be totally dismissed.

 

I just want to point out four things. 1) Taylor was hurt, clearly. 2) Moss had just come back from an injury. 3) The team has practiced that play with Goodson all year. 4) Any QB pass play had to go through Minshew, whether he was struggling or not.

 

As it stands, we asked our QB who started 14 games to make a simple throw to a RB who knows how to catch the ball. There's nothing reckless about this.

Houston loaded the box to stop the run and we kept running into it that is where Taylor was injured. It’s the lack of play action when that happened. Bad on Shane for that.  

[NFLfan]

34 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I made the Taylor was hurt in the gameday thread.

 

@NFLfan pointed out to me that Taylor was in the play before.

 

I thought he was. Maybe I was wrong. I'm not sure.

[strt182]

In Ballards presser He said that they ran the EXACT play against the Steelers and It work, He is quoted as saying : it was a better throw.  That was a good call but wasn't executed.. Human nature isn't the same when its practice vs season on the line. 

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

Houston loaded the box to stop the run and we kept running into it that is where Taylor was injured. It’s the lack of play action when that happened. Bad on Shane for that.  

 

Taylor was hurt earlier in the game. He came back and was in on the final drive, and he was gutting it out, but he was obviously in pain.

 

I don't know where play action fits in, unless you're saying it should have been used earlier in that possession? 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, strt182 said:

In Ballards presser He said that they ran the EXACT play against the Steelers and It work, He is quoted as saying : it was a better throw.  That was a good call but wasn't executed.. Human nature isn't the same when its practice vs season on the line. 

 

I just pulled the play up. They ran it to the right against the Steelers, Goodson almost scored, on review was ruled down at the 1 yard line. 

 

Running it to the left is probably a little harder for Minshew. It's still a throw he should make.

[Hoose]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm sensitive to the idea that it would have been better to have a different back in the game. It's not an idea that should be totally dismissed.

 

I just want to point out four things. 1) Taylor was hurt, clearly. 2) Moss had just come back from an injury. 3) The team has practiced that play with Goodson all year. 4) Any QB pass play had to go through Minshew, whether he was struggling or not.

 

As it stands, we asked our QB who started 14 games to make a simple throw to a RB who knows how to catch the ball. There's nothing reckless about this.

All fair comments. But why not run that play on third down? Why lay all your chips on the table, with the season on the line, using your 3rd or 4th string RB on 4th down? That’s where I keep scratching my head. The pass wasn’t great but it was very catchable. 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Hoose said:

All fair comments. But why not run that play on third down? Why lay all your chips on the table, with the season on the line, using your 3rd or 4th string RB on 4th down? That’s where I keep scratching my head. The pass wasn’t great but it was very catchable. 

 

I just don't understand the validity of this question.

 

They ran the play because they expected it to get Goodson open for a first down. It's 4th down, the season is on the line, what play will get us a first down? And if Minshew does his job, it makes it easier for Goodson to do his job, and the play is successful. 

[chad72]

[2006Coltsbestever]

Like I said earlier, I don't think the play call was bad and if executed properly we win the division so I get it. I still would have ran Taylor though, I would rather put all my chips on Taylor getting 1 yard than put it in the hands of Minshew to Goodson. That is just me. Just like in SB 49, I am giving the ball to Beast and not letting Wilson throw a pass down by the goaline and that is Wilson a possible Hall of Famer.

[PRnum1]

38 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I thought he was. Maybe I was wrong. I'm not sure.

@GoColts8818 said it too.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To some of the posts above, I don't think it was a bad call by Steichen. The ball was catchable but had it been me, I would have gave it to Taylor and have faith in him getting 1 yard banged up or not. He was running wild all game. Then go from there. I said that to myself before the play was even called. I was thinking just give the ball to 28. When Taylor wasn't in, I knew we would pass, just wasn't sure what it would be.

 

 So you attest that Taylor "ran wild" after Smith left the game.

 

[EasyE]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's a tough pill to swallow knowing we were a hair away from winning the Division and the way the last play went down. I was sick to my stomach all night and was thinking if we had done this or that different. I felt bad for Ballard too because he finally could have won a Division Title (we didn't know it at the time but when Jax lost on Sunday that would have been the case). So, no Monkey off the back yet for him either! I know it's hindsight, but I thought in real time - on that 4th and 1, I run Taylor. I am giving the ball to my best player who has 188 yards already. Pete Carroll got cute in the SB and didn't run Beast and it cost him a Championship.

I feel your pain. I thought damn if Minshew didn't throw a bad  pass too him that is 6. I think damn if that was a play drown up for any player that actually touched the ball that evening a automatic 6. It's all a what if, but damn good playcall. SOB 😢

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, Hoose said:

All fair comments. But why not run that play on third down? Why lay all your chips on the table, with the season on the line, using your 3rd or 4th string RB on 4th down? That’s where I keep scratching my head. The pass wasn’t great but it was very catchable. 

 

 The pass was so bad that with those sticky gloves he couldn't pull it in.

 Totally wrong side of the body and short. The guy did all he could to twist around and got only fingertips on the ball. Gardner was given the easiest throw in the book and choked. 

 Fine by me. It saved us a beat down in a playoff game with no injuries.

[jskinnz]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm sensitive to the idea that it would have been better to have a different back in the game. It's not an idea that should be totally dismissed.

 

I just want to point out four things. 1) Taylor was hurt, clearly. 2) Moss had just come back from an injury. 3) The team has practiced that play with Goodson all year. 4) Any QB pass play had to go through Minshew, whether he was struggling or not.

 

As it stands, we asked our QB who started 14 games to make a simple throw to a RB who knows how to catch the ball. There's nothing reckless about this.

 

As I was walking out of the game on Saturday night and overheard a conversation with someone lamenting the play and that Taylor was not in the game to “at least be a decoy.”  
 

The play worked. It was WFO. There no need for Taylor as a decoy. They just did not execute it. 
 

I personally had no issue with the personnel / play call decision which to me means you live with the result.  I believe most became ticked at the decision when the result was a dropped pass. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

As I was walking out of the game on Saturday night and overheard a conversation with someone lamenting the play and that Taylor was not in the game to “at least be a decoy.”  
 

The play worked. It was WFO. There no need for Taylor as a decoy. They just did not execute it. 
 

I personally had no issue with the personnel / play call decision which to me means you live with the result.  I believe most became ticked at the decision when the result was a dropped pass. 

With me, I was even mad at the play call. We were trying to fool them so I get it, and the play almost worked. I still would have run Taylor is all I have been saying. Then again if Taylor would have got stuffed, I would have looked wrong. Having said that, I would trust my 14 Mill a year RB to get 1 yard who had been having the best game he had all year over anything else. 

[jskinnz]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

With me, I was even mad at the play call. We were trying to fool them so I get it, and the play almost worked. I still would have run Taylor is all I have been saying. Then again if Taylor would have got stuffed, I would have looked wrong. Having said that, I would trust my 14 Mill a year RB to get 1 yard who had been having the best game he had all year over anything else. 

I had no issue with the play call because after his long touchdown run, Houston had effectively shut down Taylor (and he was hurt). They were in 4th and 1 largely because his effectiveness was not the same later in the game. 

[Superman]

28 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

As I was walking out of the game on Saturday night and overheard a conversation with someone lamenting the play and that Taylor was not in the game to “at least be a decoy.”  
 

The play worked. It was WFO. There no need for Taylor as a decoy. They just did not execute it. 
 

I personally had no issue with the personnel / play call decision which to me means you live with the result.  I believe most became ticked at the decision when the result was a dropped pass. 

 

Someone said 'they could have used JT and went play action!'

 

And what result would they have been hoping for? Probably a wide open receiver, right? Kind of like the play that they ran... 

 

I don't get it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Someone said 'they could have used JT and went play action!'

 

And what result would they have been hoping for? Probably a wide open receiver, right? Kind of like the play that they ran... 

 

I don't get it.

Just a thought but Downs and Pittman at least have made tough catches when the QB has been off.

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Someone said 'they could have used JT and went play action!'

 

And what result would they have been hoping for? Probably a wide open receiver, right? Kind of like the play that they ran... 

 

I don't get it.

Our O.Line had been playing well and we were running all over them. Taylor for 1 up the middle behind Nelson. Then you have 4 downs, run the clock down and score with like 15 seconds left. 

[Superman]

46 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Our O.Line had been playing well and we were running all over them. Taylor for 1 up the middle behind Nelson. Then you have 4 downs, run the clock down and score with like 15 seconds left. 

 

Five times on that possession, we had been stopped for 2, 1, 0, or -1 yards. Saying 'we were running all over them' isn't acknowledging how limited the run game had become at that point in the game. 

 

Taylor was obviously in pain.

 

The Texans had five down linemen on 4th down. 

 

We can come up with all these different possibilities for how to get a first down there. None of them are guaranteed, partly because they all rely on the execution of the players on the field. Just like Minshew didn't make a good pass, and Goodson didn't catch it, if you call a run play, the OL might miss an assignment. Maybe the handoff is sloppy, or JT slips trying to cut through the hole. Maybe we have a holding penalty.

 

Steichen called a play that resulted in a wide open receiver. The players on the field needed to execute. It wasn't a trick play, they didn't go tackle eligible, there's no high bar to clear, or significantly smaller margin for error. They didn't put anyone in a tough situation or ask anyone to do something that isn't part of their normal responsibility. It's a routine play, which got a capable receiver open. Minshew's job is to throw the ball, and he smoked the throw; part of Goodson's job is to catch the ball, and he smoked the catch.

 

Like Steichen said, they got the look they wanted, and it didn't work out, but they trust whoever they put on the field to make a play. In other words, players have to execute. That would be just as true if they tried to run JT into a defense that was focused on stopping the run.

[Tsarquise]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Five times on that possession, we had been stopped for 2, 1, 0, or -1 yards. Saying 'we were running all over them' isn't acknowledging how limited the run game had become at that point in the game. 

 

Taylor was obviously in pain.

 

The Texans had five down linemen on 4th down. 

 

We can come up with all these different possibilities for how to get a first down there. None of them are guaranteed, partly because they all rely on the execution of the players on the field. Just like Minshew didn't make a good pass, and Goodson didn't catch it, if you call a run play, the OL might miss an assignment. Maybe the handoff is sloppy, or JT slips trying to cut through the hole. Maybe we have a holding penalty.

 

Steichen called a play that resulted in a wide open receiver. The players on the field needed to execute. It wasn't a trick play, they didn't go tackle eligible, there's no high bar to clear, or significantly smaller margin for error. They didn't put anyone in a tough situation or ask anyone to do something that isn't part of their normal responsibility. It's a routine play, which got a capable receiver open. Minshew's job is to throw the ball, and he smoked the throw; part of Goodson's job is to catch the ball, and he smoked the catch.

 

Like Steichen said, they got the look they wanted, and it didn't work out, but they trust whoever they put on the field to make a play. In other words, players have to execute. That would be just as true if they tried to run JT into a defense that was focused on stopping the run.

I don't understand why this even needs to be explained to anyone or why there is any controversy surrounding the play. It was simply an execution problem. 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

As I was walking out of the game on Saturday night and overheard a conversation with someone lamenting the play and that Taylor was not in the game to “at least be a decoy.”  
 

The play worked. It was WFO. There no need for Taylor as a decoy. They just did not execute it. 
 

I personally had no issue with the personnel / play call decision which to me means you live with the result.  I believe most became ticked at the decision when the result was a dropped pass. 

Hahaha! Would you believe me I was ranting about the same thing earlier today? "You should have Taylor out there as a decoy"... WHY? What's is the goal of having him out there as a decoy? To get an easy wide open play for another player? You mean like the one we did get? People just don't know what they want and why they want it. They just are determined to complain about that play because it didn't work. Not because it was a bad playcall... simply because it didn't work. 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Just a thought but Downs and Pittman at least have made tough catches when the QB has been off.

Playcallers are not calling plays expecting their QB to be off, if they did, they shouldn't be calling that play. And this is not a play where you need the QB to do something extraordinary. It was the simplest of throws... and one of those that Minshew is supposed to actually be good at. 

[FanFromtheWasteland]

My question is what makes anyone think we would have actually scored a TD if we made that 4th and 1 play, because that is what was needed, along with Gay making the extra point

[Indyfan4life]

21 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yet the Texans left him wide open... 

Goodson caught that same pass the last time the ran it. Practiced it all week apparently. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I don't think anyone in here is saying it was a bad play call. I was OK with it and we tried to fool to them - which I don't mind. Minshew throws a better pass and Goodson just focuses on catching it because the ball was catchable, than Shane is looked at as a genius. 

 

Most people playing Devil's advocate, is because the personnel that was out there. Taylor should have at least been out there. Steichen for the year gets an overall grade of B+ from me and I think he is the real deal. He may be the best coach we have had since Dungy so I love the guy! He is creative and has a good offensive mind and to go 9-8 with the injuries we had is eye opening. Just because I am saying I would have run Taylor instead on that play doesn't mean I hated the play call. People need to comprehend what people post a little better. I would have just trusted Taylor more to get 1 yard more than anything else, JMO.

[chad72]

26 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Just because I am saying I would have run Taylor instead on that play doesn't mean I hated the play call. People need to comprehend what people post a little better. I would have just trusted Taylor more to get 1 yard more than anything else, JMO.

 

Trust the play call but not the personnel. Nothing new about what you are saying. It has been the same thing discussed over several pages in the post game thread, just FYI, same identical stance as yours by several posters. 

 

The difference is, me and several others like @Superman @stitches don't agree that the personnel was wrong when it resulted in a wide open play whose execution was botched. Ultimately, it is a matter of what helps Colts fans sleep better at night, knowing that Pittman failed or JT failed instead of knowing it was Goodson that failed. For those like you, it is clearly the former. But then, we won't know because they weren't involved, hence the speculative discussions.  

 

I have moved on, hopefully this is the last time I have to explain my stance.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

If Gay makes that FG a FG wins the game. What if. 

[cdgacoltsfan]