I don't see Irsay paying Wentz 22 Million

[John Hammonds]

8 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

I think we roll with Wentz one more year. It makes sense. I absolutely would not rule out Ballard making a run at an elite guy though. Wouldn't surprise me a little bit. Irsay wants to win, Cap space can be made. Future picks can be packaged.

 

Worst case scenario if we continue to regress from the this year to next like we did from last year to this year, and Wentz stinks it up. Then we might actually be in position to trade up to the top of the 1st round and draft a guy, we will be clear of Wentz contact I believe also.

I don't think they have much of a choice.  Eventually, they've got to stick with the guy they brought in and try to make him better.

 

I've said it before:  When all is said and done, Ballard will be judged on two things:  drafting a guard at 6th overall and bringing in Carson Wentz.  The success or failure of those two decisions will have more to do with his fate than the other decisions he has made.

[Vader]

Cam Newton???

[richard pallo]

9 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Wentz is due 7 million payment on I believe March 17 if not cut. This is throwing money away. While no one likes a dead cap of 15 million that beats a dead cap of 22 million which is what you would have with Wentz.

He can restructure before then.

[IndySouthsider]

10 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I don't think they have much of a choice.  Eventually, they've got to stick with the guy they brought in and try to make him better.

 

I've said it before:  When all is said and done, Ballard will be judged on two things:  drafting a guard at 6th overall and bringing in Carson Wentz.  The success or failure of those two decisions will have more to do with his fate than the other decisions he has made.

I don’t think anyone is question the Nelson pick. He has been an all pro in every season he played. He was a key cog in a RB going for 1800 rushing yards. 
 

The risk grab for Wentz was not a bad idea. The bad plan will be to have not had a plan for the risk. Who is doing their Risk mitigation plans?

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, MPStack said:

 

Did you forget Brissett. They paid him about 1M per QB sneak last season. 

And for being "good for the locker room".   Maybe that's what we were missing this year.  JBs locker room presence.......

[Jackie Daytona]

9 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Wentz is due 7 million payment on I believe March 17 if not cut. This is throwing money away. While no one likes a dead cap of 15 million that beats a dead cap of 22 million which is what you would have with Wentz.

Irsay?  The guy who paid a QB tens of millions of dollars to not play for his team?    We'll see.

[Jackie Daytona]

28 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

The Colts will move on from Wentz, but it won’t be this season. Ballard also isn’t trading for anyone.

 

The wildest thing you may see at the QB position is a surprise 2nd round pick, but that’s about it. There’s just no way Ballard is going to spend draft picks and lose money on Wentz. That would be hard to explain to Irsay as well. Having no 1st round pick, a dead cap hit, and then no real starting QB would be a horrible spot to be in

It's painful to cut your losses before they ruin you completely.....  Never chase a loss.

[richard pallo]

I think he restructures and stays.  I think we are going to bring in Mariotta as a backup and pay him well.  He will realize he will have a great opportunity here should Wentz falter for any reason.  Cap is going to be a challenge.  I can now see them going with Pryor at LT and not resigning Fisher.  I think we will sign a TE in FA probably Ertz but who knows.  A FA WR is going to be expensive.  If I was GM I would try to trade for one under contract.  My choice would be Calvin Ridley.   11m cap hit.  No one will give him an extension without first seeing him play and his state of mind. I think a conditional pick constructed like the Wentz trade would work.  I wouldn’t be afraid to give them a conditional 1st that reverts to a 2nd if conditions aren’t met.   I can see something like this playing out.  JMO 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

50 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I don't think they have much of a choice.  Eventually, they've got to stick with the guy they brought in and try to make him better.

 

I've said it before:  When all is said and done, Ballard will be judged on two things:  drafting a guard at 6th overall and bringing in Carson Wentz.  The success or failure of those two decisions will have more to do with his fate than the other decisions he has made.

I do.  I think once you see a mistake the best leaders move from it RAPIDLY.  

[gspdx]

40 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

I don’t think anyone is question the Nelson pick. He has been an all pro in every season he played. He was a key cog in a RB going for 1800 rushing yards. 
 

The risk grab for Wentz was not a bad idea. The bad plan will be to have not had a plan for the risk. Who is doing their Risk mitigation plans?

 

I think I have heard plenty of people question the Nelson pick.  It was right there talking about taking a guard with the #6 pick.  Most people agree he is a great player but plenty question why we didn't go get a skilled position player instead of a guard.

 

As far as risk mitigation - look around the league.  Finding a QB to lead your team to a Superbowl is VERY difficult and expensive.  the wrong decision can set a team back for a very long time.  We could have gone for Brady/Stafford/Wentz and add in any other option you want considering QBs in the league now.  We could have tried to move up in the draft to grab a rookie.  I think the Wentz move was the risk mitigation plan.  He cost us less than any other viable option out there and will be easiest to move on from in a year.  

 

I would like to know what your plan would have been for a starting caliber franchise QB with a great risk mitigation plan that would have actually been workable.

[jvan1973]

10 hours ago, Captain_Colts1317 said:

Wilson, Rodgers, Watson, literally anybody that has rumored be available to trade. Watson is pretty much not going to happen due to being in the division. Honestly Jimmy G could be okay if they add a number 2 receiver which they have to regardless. The problem is you can’t go into the playoffs and trust Wentz at this point. His talent is undeniable but you can’t break his bad habits at this point I don’t think. 

Wentz will be the qb next year

[FuedinHatfield]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Wentz will be the qb next year

He will. Hopefully he can prove his critics including me wrong. I would gladly eat crow.

[Mr.Debonair]

Wentz will be the QB but they should draft Carson Strong or Bailey Zappe if they are available. 

[Imgrandojji]

10 hours ago, Captain_Colts1317 said:

There will be options for trade. 

For who?  there's a QB shortage in the league as it is.  Who do you think we're gonna bring in?  We'll be lucky if we get a semi-competent retread like andy Dalton.

[luv_pony_express]

11 hours ago, JMichael557 said:

Wentz is due 7 million payment on I believe March 17 if not cut. This is throwing money away. While no one likes a dead cap of 15 million that beats a dead cap of 22 million which is what you would have with Wentz.

 

OK, Sam.  Next man up!  Go take us to the Super Bowl!

 

Wentz will be our quarterback next year.  Stop with this foolishness.  His butt may feel a little warm.  But there is about a zero chance that he won't be back.

[IndySouthsider]

40 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

I think I have heard plenty of people question the Nelson pick.  It was right there talking about taking a guard with the #6 pick.  Most people agree he is a great player but plenty question why we didn't go get a skilled position player instead of a guard.

 

As far as risk mitigation - look around the league.  Finding a QB to lead your team to a Superbowl is VERY difficult and expensive.  the wrong decision can set a team back for a very long time.  We could have gone for Brady/Stafford/Wentz and add in any other option you want considering QBs in the league now.  We could have tried to move up in the draft to grab a rookie.  I think the Wentz move was the risk mitigation plan.  He cost us less than any other viable option out there and will be easiest to move on from in a year.  

 

I would like to know what your plan would have been for a starting caliber franchise QB with a great risk mitigation plan that would have actually been workable.

If Wentz was their risk mitigation they would have been better served to stick with JB and just start looking on the college ranks. Wentz is a failure and a bust. Put him in the Ryan Leaf category. Million dollar arms and a 10 cent brain.

[BlackTiger]

its too much, thats part of the risk we took in trading for him.  i'd like to see someone brought in for an actual competition too

[gspdx]

1 minute ago, IndySouthsider said:

If Wentz was their risk mitigation they would have been better served to stick with JB and just start looking on the college ranks. Wentz is a failure and a bust. Put him in the Ryan Leaf category. Million dollar arms and a 10 cent brain.

 

That would be an option.  No guarantee there either.  Could end up like Cleveland, NY Giants, etc.  Either way when the plan doesn't work fans freak out and think they have the answer.

[luv_pony_express]

1 hour ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I do.  I think once you see a mistake the best leaders move from it RAPIDLY.  

Sometimes when you move quickly, it's from the frying pan into the fire.

 

I don't have the slightest problem with cutting bait sooner rather than later.  But somebody's going to have to be under center next year.  And until and unless somebody can identify a better, gettable, affordable alternative, then we don't have much choice.

 

When they traded for Wentz, Ballard & Co. knew full well that they were marrying him for 2 years.  And 2 years, in the NFL at the quarterback position, IS rapidly.  It's a short-term, tire-kicking trial.

[t-rex]

 I would take the 15 million dollar cap hit and move on. That's better than paying 22 million dollars and being in the exact same situation we are in now, only another year later.

 

This is a fork in the road. Option one: 22 million payed and failed outcome.  Option two: 15 million dollar cap hit and an unknown outcome.

 

22 million and a failed outcome

vs. 

15 million and an unknown outcome.

 

The decision is easy. We are at the point where the unknown is a better option that the path we are currently on.

 

What's worse than a mistake? Simple; Pride which keeps us from admitting the mistake and making changes.

 

 

[jvan1973]

16 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

If Wentz was their risk mitigation they would have been better served to stick with JB and just start looking on the college ranks. Wentz is a failure and a bust. Put him in the Ryan Leaf category. Million dollar arms and a 10 cent brain.

Nothing close to Ryan Leaf.  Get real

[IndySouthsider]

12 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

That would be an option.  No guarantee there either.  Could end up like Cleveland, NY Giants, etc.  Either way when the plan doesn't work fans freak out and think they have the answer.

Again I was clear and I didn’t mind them being risky and trying Wentz out. But at this point you know who and what he is. He is the same QB Philly was giddy to lose.

[Flash7]

2 minutes ago, t-rex said:

 I would take the 15 million dollar cap hit and move on. That's better than paying 22 million dollars and being in the exact same situation we are in now, only another year later.

 

This is a fork in the road. Option one: 22 million payed and failed outcome.  Option two: 15 million dollar cap hit and an unknown outcome.

 

22 million and a failed outcome

vs. 

15 million and an unknown outcome.

 

The decision is easy. We are at the point where the unknown is a better option that the path we are currently on.

 

What's worse than a mistake? Simple; Pride which keeps us from admitting the mistake and making changes.

 

 

I see what you are saying, but it's not so cut and dry.

 

We were 1 win away from making the playoffs, and Wentz was the QB of that team. He has in fact shown the ability to bring us to the doorstep, right? Maybe we can let the O-line get healthy, (clearly they were not playing up to their level the last 2 games), improve the WR group, add a dynamic TE and evaluate Wentz again next year.

 

Meanwhile, we can still plan for the future. Whether Wentz works out or not, we still need all of those pieces on the roster.

[gspdx]

6 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Again I was clear and I didn’t mind them being risky and trying Wentz out. But at this point you know who and what he is. He is the same QB Philly was giddy to lose.

 

I hear what you are saying.  But you were bashing the mgmt for not having a mitigation strategy.  And I think they did.  We can move on from Wentz for cheap after 2 years.  I don't know in this league how you can do any better than that.

 

Trying to find a true franchise level replacement is a whole other issue.

[Defjamz26]

15 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I see what you are saying, but it's not so cut and dry.

 

We were 1 win away from making the playoffs, and Wentz was the QB of that team. He has in fact shown the ability to bring us to the doorstep, right? Maybe we can let the O-line get healthy, (clearly they were not playing up to their level the last 2 games), improve the WR group, add a dynamic TE and evaluate Wentz again next year.

 

Meanwhile, we can still plan for the future. Whether Wentz works out or not, we still need all of those pieces on the roster.

Nope. Been there done that. That’s always the story. “We’ll when this guy/group gets healthy, when we draft this guy, when we get this new coordinator, etc…” That is bad player scapegoat tactics 101. A lot of people here did it with Brissett too, and were quickly reminded when Ballard brought Rivers in the next season, that that’s not how the NFL operates. Good players gotta produce. You can’t wait around for all the stars to align. That just doesn’t happen. As QB you’re not always going to have the best O-line, your best receiver is going to be hurt, the defense is going to put you in poor positions, etc… but that’s going to be the case every single year. Good QBs overcome the obstacles and produce. Even if the team doesn’t win, you have to ball out.

 

Jalen Hurts is a 2nd year QB with a * poor offensive line, a rookie receiver, and no star RB and the Eagles are in the playoffs. Dereck Carr has a bunch of stuff around him too, with the most notable being an interim HC and he’s played great.

 

Wentz at this stage in his career is out of excuses. What he had in Indy was 10 times better than what he had in Philly and he still couldn’t play well.

[MPStack]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

And for being "good for the locker room".   Maybe that's what we were missing this year.  JBs locker room presence.......

Sometimes you gotta nonsense the audience!

[Crush22]

2 hours ago, Vader said:

Cam Newton???

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, IndySouthsider said:

If Wentz was their risk mitigation they would have been better served to stick with JB and just start looking on the college ranks. Wentz is a failure and a bust. Put him in the Ryan Leaf category. Million dollar arms and a 10 cent brain.

The problem is, you're describing pretty much every highly rated QB coming out of college because of how the college game has changed.

 

Except for Sam Ehlinger and Mac Jones perhaps.

 

(Ok Lawrence, Burrow, and Herbert, all of whom were way out of reach, but you're talking about tanking for a top 5 pick)

[2006Coltsbestever]

19 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Sometimes you gotta nonsense the audience!

I know, great post 

[MikeCurtis]

Wentz is the QB for 2022

 

I don't see a FA that we could bring in, or trade partner, NOR QB that would make a spitload of difference

available in the mid second round......

 

Wentz is the QB for 2022

 

I think we need to get our arms around this

 

In 2023, we are off the hook, 

 

If we stink it up, we get our QB of the future in the following draft

 

We need to keep building the rest of the team

 

If Carson stinks it up we draft our QB of the future in 2023

 

My hope is, that with some offensive weapons, and as full camp

 

Wentz will be better, the QB question is answered for 5 years

 

 

3 weeks ago people were saying how happy with they were and that we "WON" the Eagles trade

 

Now the pitchforks and torches are out

 

 

I just watched a bit of Kurt Warners analysis

 

"Wentz should have seen that open RB"

 

Most of those statements he had a DE RIGHT IN HIS FACE... when the RB was open.....

 

He sucked in the game but the WHOLE TEAM sucked in that game

 

Carson needs a full offseason to develop timing with his WRs and TEs

(Hopefully with some REAL talent that he didnt have this year_

 

Before we burn his house down, lets see what he does with that

 

It like getting on the scary roller coaster.....  you cant really jump off mid ride

 

Regardless of who the QB is in 2024,  you keep building the team 

 

 

Pining for what ifs, monopoly money transactions where you have to impossible jumping jacks to meet cap numbers,, and dreamy trades dont really happen in real life

 

Wentz is the QB for 2022

 

 

 

 

[Flash7]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

[1] Nope. Been there done that. That’s always the story. “We’ll when this guy/group gets healthy, when we draft this guy, when we get this new coordinator, etc…” That is bad player scapegoat tactics 101. A lot of people here did it with Brissett too, and were quickly reminded when Ballard brought Rivers in the next season, that that’s not how the NFL operates. Good players gotta produce. You can’t wait around for all the stars to align. That just doesn’t happen. As QB you’re not always going to have the best O-line, your best receiver is going to be hurt, the defense is going to put you in poor positions, etc… but that’s going to be the case every single year. Good QBs overcome the obstacles and produce. Even if the team doesn’t win, you have to ball out.

 

[2] Jalen Hurts is a 2nd year QB with a * poor offensive line, a rookie receiver, and no star RB and the Eagles are in the playoffs. Dereck Carr has a bunch of stuff around him too, with the most notable being an interim HC and he’s played great.

 

Wentz at this stage in his career is out of excuses. What he had in Indy was 10 times better than what he had in Philly and he still couldn’t play well.

[1] I am not a Wentz fan nor a Wentz apologist. I think he's average and has an erratic playing style, but that doesn't mean I think we should just get rid of him. First, we would be on the hook $15M in dead cap space, (I think?), if we do get rid of him. In addition, we would have to pay the salary of his replacement, so potentially, we could be paying close to $40M for a QB ($25M replacement  + $15M dead money). Secondly, if you are in favor of getting rid of him, who do you replace him with that's clearly better?

 

[2] The Eagles are #1 in the league in rush yards and 784 of those yards are attributed to Hurts. They had a great rushing attack. Secondly, I am advocating for getting Wentz a rookie WR to pair along with Pittman. Your argument that Hurts was throwing to a rookie WR actually helps my argument, as DeVonta Smith had over 900 yards receiving. Lastly, playing for an interim head coach isn't always a bad thing. We as Colts fans should know this because we had Arians as in interim head coach during a winning season and making the playoffs.

[IndySouthsider]

1 hour ago, gspdx said:

 

I hear what you are saying.  But you were bashing the mgmt for not having a mitigation strategy.  And I think they did.  We can move on from Wentz for cheap after 2 years.  I don't know in this league how you can do any better than that.

 

Trying to find a true franchise level replacement is a whole other issue.

Whoah, not bashing them yet. Bashing them if they don't bring in someone to compete with Wentz. If they believe that they can magically fix what's wrong that would be on management at this point. Wentz isn't broke. He just isn't good enough. At this point in time I'm not sure how even Frank believes in Carson.

[shasta519]

IF he was released, I do wonder if he is a post-June 1 cut candidate. That would still mean a $7.5M dead cap hit, but it would shift $7.5M into next season (when the cap jumps up). That would also mean that ~$21M of his $28M cap hit will come off the books right now, so the $45-50M cap space figure jumps all the way up to $70M or so.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think he restructures and stays.  I think we are going to bring in Mariotta as a backup and pay him well.  He will realize he will have a great opportunity here should Wentz falter for any reason.  Cap is going to be a challenge.  I can now see them going with Pryor at LT and not resigning Fisher.  I think we will sign a TE in FA probably Ertz but who knows.  A FA WR is going to be expensive.  If I was GM I would try to trade for one under contract.  My choice would be Calvin Ridley.   11m cap hit.  No one will give him an extension without first seeing him play and his state of mind. I think a conditional pick constructed like the Wentz trade would work.  I wouldn’t be afraid to give them a conditional 1st that reverts to a 2nd if conditions aren’t met.   I can see something like this playing out.  JMO 

We do that and the board will explode.  Mariota was a train wreck in TN

[masterlock]

5 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Bring back Chad! Bring back Chad!

I still wonder what Chad Kelly could've done. Would he have been worse than Ellingher? 

[jvan1973]

32 minutes ago, masterlock said:

I still wonder what Chad Kelly could've done. Would he have been worse than Ellingher? 

One is in the NFL.  The other is not

[Indeee]

I do believe Wentz will be the QB however I would not rule out the possibility that Baker might be available should a team really want him. Not saying it would be the Colts however anyone can be had for the right price and Stefanski has a history with Wentz as well I believe. Even swap would be kind of cool and weird...Ha!! Still think Wentz remains a Colt though

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

We do that and the board will explode.  Mariota was a train wreck in TN

I don’t think so.  That’s old news when he played on a bad team.  He’s been great at LV when called upon.  Many on the board would welcome him.  That’s evident on many other threads concerning our QB situation. 

[coltsva]

Either Wentz will be declared the starter, or he will be gone. He won't be competing for the job with anyone. He's already mentally fragile. Can you imagine what he'd be like having to look over his shoulder all season? Probably why the Colts didn't have a veteran QB backing him up this season. 

[Moosejawcolt]

16 hours ago, Captain_Colts1317 said:

Wilson, Rodgers, Watson, literally anybody that has rumored be available to trade. Watson is pretty much not going to happen due to being in the division. Honestly Jimmy G could be okay if they add a number 2 receiver which they have to regardless. The problem is you can’t go into the playoffs and trust Wentz at this point. His talent is undeniable but you can’t break his bad habits at this point I don’t think. 

They either go with Wentz or they will be starting Sam or a rookie. Wilson and Rodgers would never come here. Wilson's wife wants the big lights. Rodgers will either go to west coast, stay with the Packers or retire. I do not see him going from one small market to another. Watson is out of the question. Texans would never trade him and Irsay would not sign off.  The major reason why  they will not make a splash for a qb. They have very limited draft capital and I cannot think of players that are really attractive to other teams besides Taylor.