Colts and pats in trade talks for Brissett?

[hoosierhawk]

I  said in another thread that if we could get rid of his salary and still get a ham sandwich we should take it. Still feel that way but if we could pick up a late draft choice that would be a bonus. Go CB!

[ojsglove]

I think the Pats are the only team JB can sign with as the starting QB, which is what he wants, and what BB is looking for.  I see us having the upper hand on this deal, and expect CB to exploit this to our advantage.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

I think the Pats are the only team JB can sign with as the starting QB, which is what he wants, and what BB is looking for.  I see us having the upper hand on this deal, and expect CB to exploit this to our advantage.

IMO, Stidham is BB's guy, but he's just not 100% and wants a quality backup plan in year one if it doesn't work out. I don't think we have much, if any leverage. BB would rather lick a door knob in China than cave to demands.

[crazycolt1]

Now this is amazing and really, really funny.

Some you think that Belichick want's Brissett but you want to hate on Ballard/Reich if they keep him. 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

19 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Which was guaranteed last September, so no avoiding it.

 

19 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Not if he's not on the roster

 

If that's the case, then its not really guaranteed then, is it.  (Unless traded before then?)

 

Yet it is.. 

 

"On the 3rd day of the 2020 league year Brissett will earn a $7 million roster bonus, which became guaranteed on September 6, 2019"

 

@Superman  can you clear the confusion here please?

[ojsglove]

31 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IMO, Stidham is BB's guy, but he's just not 100% and wants a quality backup plan in year one if it doesn't work out. I don't think we have much, if any leverage. BB would rather lick a door knob in China than cave to demands.

Not saying it's a demand, just saying Stidham is probably BB's guy, for the future, but he needs a guy now.  JB is the only one out there that can step in and fill that need.

[ojsglove]

It's actually kind of refreshing to be 1 up on BB, we actually hold the cards on this deal.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, ojsglove said:

Not saying it's a demand, just saying Stidham is probably BB's guy, for the future, but he needs a guy now.  JB is the only one out there that can step in and fill that need.

Stidham sat behind Brady last year, and knows the most recent playbook and current players. JB is 5 years removed from playing 2 games for NE, with players that aren't there anymore. It's not like JB would just easily or automatically slide back in. Sure he has more PT, but most is with Indy in a different system. And not saying Stidham is great, but he's got fresher memory, and might have chemistry with the roster. Totally a toss up IMO.

[WoolMagnet]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

. BB would rather lick a door knob in China than cave to demands.

  Lets start a GoFundMe account to pay his airfare.... a seat next to the toilet.

Aw heck, just send me the bill, I’d rather not waste time waiting for the monetary goal to be reached.

2 tickets.  One fir him, and the other for Mc*. Of course, Kraft will wanna go for a “back rub .”

[jimmy g]

15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It would be a good home, familiar place, and fresh start, etc. for him. 

IMO best for all parties. 

 

CB wants to do what's right for all parties, so I applaud him.  I compare it to , in the 1930s, during the Depression,  my Grandparents couldn't afford to raise my Dad, so they sent him to a better able to afford him Uncle to raise.  All parties came out better. Now, the Colts cant afford JB as a Backup.  JB could be dealt worse scenarios.  So could the Colts.

[Nickster]

11 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That was a horrible contract every way there is to look at it.

brutal contract.  28 mill for one more year f football for that guy.

 

needs to retire and open an agency.  He absolutely fleeced the Colts.

[Nickster]

11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

In hindsight, yes. Had he worked out, it would have looked at very differently. And, it could have been worse lol. We had plenty of cap space last year, so it didn't matter. I would have preferred it to be more front loaded, but other than that, everything else is hindsight.

 
ive never understood this argument.  He could have been given a multi year deal for similar money if they were worried about him being good.

 

there should never have been any concern that Slowcoby was going to be good.

 

the contract was a gift 

[throwing BBZ]

18 hours ago, ColtJax said:

If not I'd keep him, 5 million isn't a lot for an experienced back up. I know it's more than 5, but he's already going to get the rest, saving 5 million isn't enough.

 

 Chuckle. If you know it's more than $7M why repeat the wrong number? It is $7.75M.
 Add Hoyer's $3M and we can sign a high quality FA or extend one of hours. It IS a big deal.
  The $7M we owe him by 3/22 is part of last years salary. 

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

  Lets start a GoFundMe account to pay his airfare.... a seat next to the toilet.

Aw heck, just send me the bill, I’d rather not waste time waiting for the monetary goal to be reached.

2 tickets.  One fir him, and the other for Mc*. Of course, Kraft will wanna go for a “back rub .”

I'll split it with you brother lol

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

 
ive never understood this argument.  He could have been given a multi year deal for similar money if they were worried about him being good.

 

there should never have been any concern that Slowcoby was going to be good.

 

the contract was a gift 

Honestly I had doubts from the get go, just because I'm a huge CFB fan and recalled his college career. BUT, I can understand why they did what they did. Would I have done it, probably not... Regardless, it'ts not really going to be a big impact on us, if at all. 

[Blueblood23]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

brutal contract.  28 mill for one more year f football for that guy.

 

needs to retire and open an agency.  He absolutely fleeced the Colts.

I absolutely agree a terrible contract. Ballard whiffed again on this one. There was little to no reason to give him a contract at that time.

[WoolMagnet]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'll split it with you brother lol

The ONLY time there wont be a film crew.

[stitches]

Here's a great article about all the minutiae of all the possibilities for Hoyer and Brissett:

https://coltscap.com/clearing-up-cap-questions-for-colts-qbs/

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Fleece em again Ballard!!! 

[jskinnz]

15 hours ago, ojsglove said:

I think the Pats are the only team JB can sign with as the starting QB, which is what he wants, and what BB is looking for.  I see us having the upper hand on this deal, and expect CB to exploit this to our advantage.

Let me ask you - do you think Ballard goes into the 2020 season with a $45+million cap hit at the qb position?  Do you also think that Belechick knows this as well?

 

i don’t think Ballard has the leverage that many believe. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, jskinnz said:

Let me ask you - do you think Ballard goes into the 2020 season with a $45+million cap hit at the qb position?  Do you also think that Belechick knows this as well?

 

i don’t think Ballard has the leverage that many believe. 

 

Hmmm...

Bottom 5 or 10 performance in most stats

Bloated contract value

Glut market of QBs

Just paid a new QB 25M

 

Yup, I don't understand the whole leverage thing.....

[Superman]

15 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

If that's the case, then its not really guaranteed then, is it.  (Unless traded before then?)

 

Yet it is.. 

 

"On the 3rd day of the 2020 league year Brissett will earn a $7 million roster bonus, which became guaranteed on September 6, 2019"

 

@Superman  can you clear the confusion here please?

 

It's confusing, because you would think a roster bonus is only paid if the player is still on the roster. But if it's guaranteed in advance, then it doesn't matter whether he's on the roster.

 

For salary cap purposes and yearly cap hits, the CBA treats roster bonuses the same as salary. So consider a roster bonus a salary advance. JB will get about half of his 2020 salary as a bonus in March. And just like you can guarantee salary in advance (which is also counter-intuitive; for us, we only get salary if we're still employed, right?) you can guarantee a roster bonus in advance.

 

So JB's $7m roster bonus, due on the third day of the 2020 league year, was guaranteed on September 6, 2019. It gets paid by whatever team he's on at that time, or whichever team most recently was on. In this case, it will be the Colts, in all likelihood.

 

If they trade him after tomorrow, his roster bonus will already be paid by the Colts, and the new team will have to pay his remaining salary, assuming he stays on their roster through Tuesday of Week 1 of the regular season (whenever that comes). 

[throwing BBZ]

 

  We could of course agree to pay part of the bonus as part of any trade.

[jameszeigler834]

22 hours ago, EastStreet said:

In hindsight, yes. Had he worked out, it would have looked at very differently. And, it could have been worse lol. We had plenty of cap space last year, so it didn't matter. I would have preferred it to be more front loaded, but other than that, everything else is hindsight.

Ya but keeping him at the current price is nothing short of a bonehead move.

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Nickster said:

brutal contract.  28 mill for one more year f football for that guy.

 

needs to retire and open an agency.  He absolutely fleeced the Colts.

 

The contract was our idea, not their idea.   We did not get fleeced.   We didn’t want to pay our starting QB such a low salary.   Sends a bad message to the team.   We wanted to send a better message.   That we believe in JB and wanted to reward him upfront.   That’s a better message.  
 

Unfortunately, the year didn’t work out, but for lots of reasons.   It wasn’t simply about JB not being good.  Our receiver group imploded.  Mack missed 4 games.  The defense wasn’t as good as expected.   And JB got hurt which clearly impacted his play.   That all adds up.

 

See the Big Picture.   We were trying to do the right thing and send a positive message.   It didn’t work out.  But it’s only a one year issue.  It’s gone next year. 

[w87r]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Hmmm...

Bottom 5 or 10 performance in most stats

Bloated contract value

Glut market of QBs

Just paid a new QB 25M

 

Yup, I don't understand the whole leverage thing.....

The leverage is really more about us not having to.

 

The Colts are at $31m in cap space right now. Can clear another $5.7 by releasing Autry, if they choose to as well.

If we don't trade him by Monday, we pay the roster bonus. Meaning we can only save around $8m range at that point by cutting him(not worth it). The trade by Monday frees up $14-$16m though

 

At that point it seems like the logical thing to do, to go into next season with a good backup, unless a trade comes up.

 

Right now JB's price is as low as it gets. After we pay the roster bonus, he becomes more valuable at least to us.

 

1. Other team would only owe him around $8-$9m

2. We can get a comp pick(3rd-4th) if we hold onto him and let him leave in FA.

 

So that is how I say we have leverage. We don't HAVE to cut him. So if they want him, they need to trade for him In fact shouldn't cut him at all, IMO.

 

Trade or let leave in FA next year.

 

Role with a pretty good backup this year.

[w87r]

31 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ya but keeping him at the current price is nothing short of a bonehead move.

you can really only look at his current price as $8-$9m

 

The rest is already gone, if we cant trade him.

 

So keeping him $8-$9m isnt as bad, because we would probably bring in another vet back up for $4-$6m.

 

Let him play out season and hit FA for a comp pick, if a suitable trade doesn't come.

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

you can really only look at his current price as $8-$9m

 

The rest is already gone, if we cant trade him.

 

So keeping him $8-$9m isnt as bad, because we would probably bring in another vet back up for $4-$6m.

 

Let him play out season and hit FA for a comp pick, if a suitable trade doesn't come.

Comp picks for this team when we get them usually is trash 6-7 rounders late in the season that bum wasn't good enough to be 3rd string let alone backup.

[w87r]

25 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Comp picks for this team when we get them usually is trash 6-7 rounders late in the season that bum wasn't good enough to be 3rd string let alone backup.

I think that if JB plays out his contract here. Then he will get us a 4th or 5th round comp pick. I think he will get decent contract to back up somewhere.

 

That coupled with the fact, we have a few guys we will probably lose next year. We could be looking at 4 comp picks all 3rd-5th round range.

 

Mack - 3rd or 4th

Autry - 4th or 5th(if we don't cut/trade him)

Brissett - 4th or 5th

Walker/Stewart/Hilton?

 

Anyway you get the point.

 

Not saying it was a good contract offered to him. Just saying at this point his $8.875m cap hit isn't a big deal anymore. Nothing we can do about those other numbers. What's doelne is done, now question is that a number you can deal with to have a backup that can definitely come in and win a couple games should Rivers go down.?

 

Have to look at releasing him and signing different vet back up(if that's their plan?) Probably looking at least $5 m.

 

So $3m difference isn't anything. 

 

If we cant trade him by tonight, he actually becomes more valuable, because the other team would only be on the hook for that $8.875 cap hit. Making them more likely to roll the dice on him backing up/starting?(NE)

[WifiGuy]

21 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Now this is amazing and really, really funny.

Some you think that Belichick want's Brissett but you want to hate on Ballard/Reich if they keep him. 

 

 

HAHAHA .   you nailed it Crazy!!!!  HAHAHAHA

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ya but keeping him at the current price is nothing short of a bonehead move.

If you're not going to spend the money somewhere else, I don't care. He's a good backup, and I'd rather them have a good back up, then go through the season with a bunch of excess salary cap space. Now if they'd be willing to cut him, and pick up a difference maker FA, I'd be happy for a cut.

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, w87r said:

The leverage is really more about us not having to.

 

The Colts are at $31m in cap space right now. Can clear another $5.7 by releasing Autry, if they choose to as well.

If we don't trade him by Monday, we pay the roster bonus. Meaning we can only save around $8m range at that point by cutting him(not worth it). The trade by Monday frees up $14-$16m though

 

At that point it seems like the logical thing to do, to go into next season with a good backup, unless a trade comes up.

 

Right now JB's price is as low as it gets. After we pay the roster bonus, he becomes more valuable at least to us.

 

1. Other team would only owe him around $8-$9m

2. We can get a comp pick(3rd-4th) if we hold onto him and let him leave in FA.

 

So that is how I say we have leverage. We don't HAVE to cut him. So if they want him, they need to trade for him In fact shouldn't cut him at all, IMO.

 

Trade or let leave in FA next year.

 

Role with a pretty good backup this year.

"not having to cut him" isn't really leverage though lol.. 

having to cut him, would give the other team leverage, but not having to cut him doesn't give us leverage... it just gives us options.

[w87r]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

"not having to cut him" isn't really leverage though lol.. 

having to cut him, would give the other team leverage, but not having to cut him doesn't give us leverage... it just gives us options.

I'm not here to say what leverage is.

 

I'm just saying the premise of some of the early post in this thread, was that NE didn't need to trade with us because we were going to release him(false).

 

So in the aspect of NE wanting(allegedly) Brissett, we had the the leverage if they wanted him, because the only way they can get him is for us to trade him to them, as we are not going to just release him for them.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Hope it happens as long as we get something in a trade or  cut him to save some cap space

 

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The contract was our idea, not their idea.   We did not get fleeced.   We didn’t want to pay our starting QB such a low salary.   Sends a bad message to the team.   We wanted to send a better message.   That we believe in JB and wanted to reward him upfront.   That’s a better message.  
 

Unfortunately, the year didn’t work out, but for lots of reasons.   It wasn’t simply about JB not being good.  Our receiver group imploded.  Mack missed 4 games.  The defense wasn’t as good as expected.   And JB got hurt which clearly impacted his play.   That all adds up.

 

See the Big Picture.   We were trying to do the right thing and send a positive message.   It didn’t work out.  But it’s only a one year issue.  It’s gone next year. 

I disagree.  The problem was primarily bad QB play which led to many other issues.

[jameszeigler834]

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If you're not going to spend the money somewhere else, I don't care. He's a good backup, and I'd rather them have a good back up, then go through the season with a bunch of excess salary cap space. Now if they'd be willing to cut him, and pick up a difference maker FA, I'd be happy for a cut.

Hes not even that good a backup I don't even think he is good enough to be 3rd string he is trash...

[richard pallo]

Now that we have paid his bonus the Colts are in a pretty interesting place QB wise.  We have JB as the backup along with Kelly behind him who actually won the backup spot in Denver a few years ago.  If Ballard does eventually get an offer he likes he can still move him and Kelly moves up to the No 2 spot.  So it will be interesting to see what happens as the rest of the off season unfolds.  A lot can change pretty quickly as we know.  The Pats are in an interesting spot.  As they explore their other options they know JB is there if they want to pay Ballards price whatever that may be.  The same goes for the other teams who may have or might suddenly have a need for an experienced QB.  Getting past his bonus moves us into new territory as the year begins.  

[Hoose]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

I disagree.  The problem was primarily bad QB play which led to many other issues.

The problem was that Andrew Luck left the team upside down without options just two weeks from the start of the season. The Colts did what they needed to do given the hand they were dealt. 

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Hes not even that good a backup I don't even think he is good enough to be 3rd string he is trash...

Nah. He's a good backup. If you're a good team with a good QB1, you want a backup that is consistent, somewhat conservative, and doesn't lose games by making mistakes while QB1 is out. He doesn't have to win games by himself, but he should not make mistakes and lose games. To me, that's the description of JB. He's a game manager that doesn't make skill guys better, but he won't throw a lot of INTs or make dangerous throws. He'll hand the ball off and be conservative in the passing game.

[WifiGuy]

37 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Nah. He's a good backup. If you're a good team with a good QB1, you want a backup that is consistent, somewhat conservative, and doesn't lose games by making mistakes while QB1 is out. He doesn't have to win games by himself, but he should not make mistakes and lose games. To me, that's the description of JB. He's a game manager that doesn't make skill guys better, but he won't throw a lot of INTs or make dangerous throws. He'll hand the ball off and be conservative in the passing game.

Agree .  He's probably not going to come in and win a game from behind, but if Rivers gets dinged in the 4th quarter with a lead he is probably not going to lose the game either.