Colts and pats in trade talks for Brissett?

[chad72]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Yup, very different situation now. And very different cap situation too. Back then, there was still the belief JB might be the guy, so held more value. I'm not saying give away, but I'd take a 5th plus salary relief in heartbeat, also knowing it's the best thing for JB too. Playing hardball for a 3rd to me is silly. It would be nice to get another mid pick since we lost the 6th for Hairston. 

 

Yes, it would be fair to get a 5th rounder for JB. Plus, the Patriots have plenty of options too. If Mike Brown is asking too much for Dalton, like a 2nd or 3rd rounder, Belichick is going to say "keep him". Same way, with us and JB. 

 

The X factor in an Andy Dalton trade is Jacksonville:

 

https://stripehype.com/2020/03/19/bengals-stars-aligning-andy-dalton-jacksonville/

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-to-work-with-andy-dalton-on-a-trade-when-the-time-is-right-this-offseason-per-report/

 

[CurBeatElite]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup, very different situation now. And very different cap situation too. Back then, there was still the belief JB might be the guy, so held more value. I'm not saying give away, but I'd take a 5th plus salary relief in heartbeat, also knowing it's the best thing for JB too. Playing hardball for a 3rd to me is silly. It would be nice to get another mid pick since we lost the 6th for Hairston. 

 

Yes, we all know Ballard loves draft picks.  Also, Jacoby and Rivers both have one year on their contract with Indy.  Rivers was signed to replace Jacoby as our starter (not saying there's not a very long shot that Rivers  could play poorly and eventually be replaced by Brissett, but that would be a very unfavorable outcome of the deal).  

 

Regardless of whether Rivers chooses to retire or move elsewhere after this year, it's not likely we'd be signing Brissett again anyway.  We have a capable backup in Hoyer and likely a capable backup in Kelly.  We could keep Brissett and watch him walk away after the season and get nothing out of it, or we could trade him and get a 5th... my choice would be to trade him and get something from it.

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yes, it would be fair to get a 5th rounder for JB. Plus, the Patriots have plenty of options too. If Mike Brown is asking too much for Dalton, like a 2nd or 3rd rounder, Belichick is going to say "keep him". Same way, with us and JB. 

 

The X factor in an Andy Dalton trade is Jacksonville:

 

https://stripehype.com/2020/03/19/bengals-stars-aligning-andy-dalton-jacksonville/

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bengals-to-work-with-andy-dalton-on-a-trade-when-the-time-is-right-this-offseason-per-report/

 

Yup, there will be plenty of things in flux. I'd rather get things worked out sooner than later if we can unload the contract. And I do want to put JB into a good position. I don't want him as a starter, but I do like him as a person and would love to see him get a shot in NE.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I wonder if this is why we haven’t had a official announcement about Rivers Yet.

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Yes, we all know Ballard loves draft picks.  Also, Jacoby and Rivers both have one year on their contract with Indy.  Rivers was signed to replace Jacoby as our starter (not saying there's not a very long shot that Rivers  could play poorly and eventually be replaced by Brissett, but that would be a very unfavorable outcome of the deal).  

 

Regardless of whether Rivers chooses to retire or move elsewhere after this year, it's not likely we'd be signing Brissett again anyway.  We have a capable backup in Hoyer and likely a capable backup in Kelly.  We could keep Brissett and watch him walk away after the season and get nothing out of it, or we could trade him and get a 5th... my choice would be to trade him and get something from it.

Exactly. I'd prefer to trade him and get literally anything (plus the salary relief). Use the salary relief to sign another impact FA, and the extra draft pick on a 2nd WR (there should be some good project WRs that drop to the 5th). I'd cut Hoyer though too. Roll with Kelly. If for some reason Rivers gets hurt, we see what Kelly has. If he tanks, then we're sitting better for the 2021 draft.

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I wonder if this is why we haven’t had a official announcement about Rivers Yet.

I'd guess they are doing physicals and stuff.

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The Pats are the exception.  If he goes there he starts.   For them one of their 3rd rd comp picks is a small price to pay for a starter who already knows their system and can play right away.  He's not their long term answer but BB can tailor the team to his strengths and win with him while he works on getting the longterm answer.  

A 3rd round pick?   For Jacoby?

 

We have no leverage.   We will be lucky to get a 5.   Everyone knows we are up against a hard, expensive deadline.  
 

So we have to take whatever we can get.   Be prepared to likely be disappointed.  

[richard pallo]

37 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

There's a glut of QBs this year. Not saying all are quality, but BB has options. Dalton, Winston, Flacco, JB, Stidham, and the draft. It's not like JB is a no-brainer best option. He's 3 years removed and familiar with BB's system, that's all. BB will tailor things regardless of who he chooses, even JB.

Out of the QB's you just listed JB is the obvious 1st choice IMO.  Pretty much a no brainer.  BB knows him extremely well so does the OC.  I would bet he is their 1st choice.  If he drafted him in the 3rd getting him back for a 3rd in their current situation shouldn't be too hard to take.  They have like three extra 3rd rd comp picks.  Ballard fleeced him for Dorsett.  I hope he does it again. 

[DougDew]

We should trade him for any draft pick we can get as to dump as much cap hit as possible.  Don't haggle.  Accept a 7th and move on.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Out of the QB's you just listed JB is the obvious 1st choice IMO.  Pretty much a no brainer.  BB knows him extremely well so does the OC.  I would bet he is their 1st choice.  If he drafted him in the 3rd getting him back for a 3rd in their current situation shouldn't be too hard to take.  They have like three extra 3rd rd comp picks.  Ballard fleeced him for Dorsett.  I hope he does it again. 

Well I'd rather have Dalton or even Winston lol, so to each his own.

 

Not sure how Ballard fleeced him lol... They got a WR that was their #2 last year, who isn't great, and we got a back up QB who wasn't great.

 

[poilucelt]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Out of the QB's you just listed JB is the obvious 1st choice IMO.  Pretty much a no brainer.  BB knows him extremely well so does the OC.  I would bet he is their 1st choice.  If he drafted him in the 3rd getting him back for a 3rd in their current situation shouldn't be too hard to take.  They have like three extra 3rd rd comp picks.  Ballard fleeced him for Dorsett.  I hope he does it again. 

IIRC NE has #87, #98 and #100. Love to get something like #100 for Jacoby, but probably a pipe dream.

 

Did the 'Skins lose McCoy? Are they looking for another QB? Maybe the Steelers have had enough of Rudolph and will be shopping for one?

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I wonder if this is why we haven’t had a official announcement about Rivers Yet.

I was wondering that too.  The physical was supposed to be completed yesterday.  That's over 24 hrs ago.  How can he not pass a physical?  Hope we don't have a surprise coming our way.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I was wondering that too.  The physical was supposed to be completed yesterday.  That's over 24 hrs ago.  How can he not pass a physical?  Hope we don't have a surprise coming our way.

No i really think they might be waiting until Jacoby is gone. It’s kind of a awkward situation for him.

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, CelticColt said:

IIRC NE has #87, #98 and #100. Love to get something like #100 for Jacoby, but probably a pipe dream.

 

Did the 'Skins lose McCoy? Are they looking for another QB? Maybe the Steelers have had enough of Rudolph and will be shopping for one?

The Skins lost McCoy to the Giants.  So they could be looking for a QB.  I always felt JB would be a good fit with the Steelers as well.  I guess #100 is the one to hope for.  A small price to pay I would say.

[poilucelt]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The Skins lost McCoy to the Giants.  So they could be looking for a QB.  I always felt JB would be a good fit with the Steelers as well.  I guess #100 is the one to hope for.  A small price to pay I would say.

FWIW, looks like the Steelers have 2 fourth round picks (#124 and #135). Washington also has two: #108 and #142.

[Thunderbolt]

 It's pretty majority that JB should change zip code, to benefit the team financially. Then, get Hoyer release, keep CK as back as well as draft a rookie QB o be mentored.

 

 

[w87r]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Not if he's not on the roster

Brissett's roster bonus is guaranteed whether he is on roster or not.

 

The question is can we trade him before that date(Monday) and have the other team pay that roster bonus.

 

Even if we cut him today, he recieves that roster bonus.

 

If we cant trade him by Monday we are on the hook for almost $14m.

 

We can save the other $7m by releasing him or trading him.

 

If we can trade him by Monday, we are only on the hook for the $5.5m. A trade anytime after that we are on the hook for $14. 

[richard pallo]

6 minutes ago, CelticColt said:

FWIW, looks like the Steelers have 2 fourth round picks (#124 and #135). Washington also has two: #108 and #142.

Perfect.  More potential competition for the Pats.  The words out now.  I bet Ballard gets a few more calls. 

[CR91]

8 minutes ago, w87r said:

Brissett's roster bonus is guaranteed whether he is on roster or not.

 

The question is can we trade him before that date(Monday) and have the other team pay that roster bonus.

 

Even if we cut him today, he recieves that roster bonus.

 

If we cant trade him by Monday we are on the hook for almost $14m.

 

We can save the other $7m by releasing him or trading him.

 

If we can trade him by Monday, we are only on the hook for the $5.5m. A trade anytime after that we are on the hook for $14. 

 

That's not what stampede blue said. We could save 15 mil if we cut him with a June 1st designation

[w87r]

Here's my take on this.

 

If we can trade him by Monday I would take really whatever to save that $14-$16m.

 

After Monday trading him really doesn't mean as much for him.

 

I would only cut him later if we do not move him.

 

We have no incentive to cut at all, because if we let him play out his contract and leave as a FA then we could potentially get a 3rd-4th round comp pick, depending on his contract. If we cut him we get nothing but $7-$8m in cap savings, no comp pick.

 

So yes we hold the cards. 100% we wont cut him by Sunday.

 

If NE wants him this year they will have to trade for him. 

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There are ESPN people saying JB would be their best option with what is out there right now. Yes, no kidding. If BB wants to give us a 4th then why not. JB to me isn't bad, he can play average football, he just isn't a franchise QB.

And knowing how the hooded one got success out of guys like Cassell, I think they’d be good with Jb

[w87r]

21 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

That's not what stampede blue said. We could save 15 mil if we cut him with a June 1st designation

Thats a different story there, June 1st designation splits dead cap over this year and next year. So yeah on top of the $8m we would save on a straight cut, we would split the $15m owed over 2 years

 

2020 cap savings

$8m

$7.5m

 

$15.5m

 

The problem with this though is then we would owe him $7.5m off next years cap.

 

Where of which straight cut this year would be $8m savings, with no dead cap in 2021.

 

Either way, we will be paying that roster bonus, if not traded by Monday.

[CurBeatElite]

28 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Out of the QB's you just listed JB is the obvious 1st choice IMO.  Pretty much a no brainer.  BB knows him extremely well so does the OC.  I would bet he is their 1st choice.  If he drafted him in the 3rd getting him back for a 3rd in their current situation shouldn't be too hard to take.  They have like three extra 3rd rd comp picks.  Ballard fleeced him for Dorsett.  I hope he does it again. 

 

Winston has some INT issues, but he's also a lot more dangerous than Jacoby.  If it's for a 1 year fix, Flacco rarely turns the ball over (Jacoby's top strength) has a stronger arm and quicker release time than Jacoby and has experience winning big games, and Dalton's certainly had a better career than Jacoby.  

 

In terms of fleecing, I'd say we got more out of the deal because Jacoby was a starting QB and we desperately needed one when we made the trade... but it's not like he took us to the Superbowl, won the AFC South, or even took us to a wildcard game.  Dorsett has been to the playoffs every year and won a SB (been to two) since he's been in NE (granted, he wasn't the QB or a high impact player on the SB teams, he's been a decent role player for them since he's been there).  We had a major need at QB and Belichek needed a role player... in the long-run it is kind of an even trade.

 

15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No i really think they might be waiting until Jacoby is gone. It’s kind of a awkward situation for him.

 

It's been reported on a lot of news outlets.  I'm sure Jacoby watches TV.  I'm also pretty sure Ballard and Reich would have let Jacoby know what was going to happen.  They haven't said anything bad about Jacoby in the media and didn't broadcast to the world they were going to bring in Rivers, but I highly doubt that signing Rivers blindsided him.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Winston has some INT issues, but he's also a lot more dangerous than Jacoby.  If it's for a 1 year fix, Flacco rarely turns the ball over (Jacoby's top strength) has a stronger arm and quicker release time than Jacoby and has experience winning big games, and Dalton's certainly had a better career than Jacoby.  

 

In terms of fleecing, I'd say we got more out of the deal because Jacoby was a starting QB and we desperately needed one when we made the trade... but it's not like he took us to the Superbowl, won the AFC South, or even took us to a wildcard game.  Dorsett has been to the playoffs every year and won a SB (been to two) since he's been in NE (granted, he wasn't the QB or a high impact player on the SB teams, he's been a decent role player for them since he's been there).  We had a major need at QB and Belichek needed a role player... in the long-run it is kind of an even trade.

 

 

It's been reported on a lot of news outlets.  I'm sure Jacoby watches TV.  I'm also pretty sure Ballard and Reich would have let Jacoby know what was going to happen.  They haven't said anything bad about Jacoby in the media and didn't broadcast to the world they were going to bring in Rivers, but I highly doubt that signing Rivers blindsided him.

That isn’t the same as the colts putting out a official statement. I fully expect once he is gone we will get a statement from Ballard about Rivers like we discussed Buckner.

[Crush22]

3 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

He is a free agent Dorsett is.

[WifiGuy]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That figure is the salary cap hit rank.   That’s NOT by actual cash money being paid.   By what we’d actually be paying his ranking would be lower. 

Being logical and informed will get you lynched on this forum.  You should know that, I'm kinda new  HA

[Coltsman1788]

This is just speculation at this point.  Nothing to see hear as of right now.  Talking about it to death doesn’t make it any more real.  Ballard has already said Jacoby is backing up Rivers so I’ll take him for what he said for now until another team steps forward with a real offer. 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

Thats a different story there, June 1st designation splits dead cap over this year and next year. So yeah on top of the $8m we would save on a straight cut, we would split the $15m owed over 2 years

 

2020 cap savings

$8m

$7.5m

 

$15.5m

 

The problem with this though is then we would owe him $7.5m off next years cap.

 

Where of which straight cut this year would be $8m savings, with no dead cap in 2021.

 

Either way, we will be paying that roster bonus, if not traded by Monday.

That was a horrible contract every way there is to look at it.

[jimmy g]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

The Pats are the exception.  If he goes there he starts.   For them one of their 3rd rd comp picks is a small price to pay for a starter who already knows their system and can play right away.  He's not their long term answer but BB can tailor the team to his strengths and win with him while he works on getting the longterm answer.  

I doubt JB beats out Stidham for the Starting Spot.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That was a horrible contract every way there is to look at it.

In hindsight, yes. Had he worked out, it would have looked at very differently. And, it could have been worse lol. We had plenty of cap space last year, so it didn't matter. I would have preferred it to be more front loaded, but other than that, everything else is hindsight.

[WifiGuy]

4 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

SHOULD ACCEPT?   Yea credible as can be 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

I doubt JB beats out Stidham for the Starting Spot.

I don't know who would win, but it's definitely not a sure thing JB starts. JB struggles in many of the things BB like to do. And Brady historically has a good time to throw, even when he has poor WRs, and still get's through all his reads. JB has a horrible time to throw, and struggles big time progressing through reads.

[jimmy g]

Stidham was about the 4th highest ranking HS QB. He lit it up at Baylor, but was amid the Art Briles controversy. He transferred to Auburn, a running team.  Reports are he was amazing, picking up BBs playbook.  Plus, he sat a year behind/studying Brady....

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, jimmy g said:

Stidham was about the 4th highest ranking HS QB. He lit it up at Baylor, but was amid the Art Briles controversy. He transferred to Auburn, a running team.  Reports are he was amazing, picking up BBs playbook.  

Maybe so but those facts mean nothing in the NFL until you win an NFL game.  That said he has not had his opportunity so far.  Last year JB won 7 games in the NFL and had wins over Mahomes and Watson.  A little different than Auburn.  I think if he goes to the Pats he's their starter to start the year.  Maybe Stidham eventually takes over but I don't see BB bringing him over to sit behind Stidham to start the season.  If Dalton comes over he's not sitting either.  BB wants to win.  

[WifiGuy]

AGAIN!!!!!  SHOULD ACCEPT?     # all/most of you on her could have written that!!!!!!!!!!!

Just now, WifiGuy said:

AGAIN!!!!!  SHOULD ACCEPT?     # all/most of you on her could have written that!!!!!!!!!!!

and I didn't say #

[LockeDown]

Imo, BB is not a great drafter or negotiator. He treats everyone the same. Bad. His genius is game planning. All he needs are guys that are able to do their job which is their motto by the way.  I could see JB would be somewhat valuable to him but not irreplaceable. Josh’s system gets guys open so JB was successful with them. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

They supposedly really love Stidum. But he hasn’t played a game so all Jacoby can ask for is to go somewhere where he might have a chance. Nobody is going to bring him in as a starter.

[EastStreet]

32 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

Imo, BB is not a great drafter or negotiator. He treats everyone the same. Bad. His genius is game planning. All he needs are guys that are able to do their job which is their motto by the way.  I could see JB would be somewhat valuable to him but not irreplaceable. Josh’s system gets guys open so JB was successful with them. 

wut? You may not prefer his style, but he's been the most consistent and successful roster builder in the last 2 decades. But yes, his game planning is awesome too.

[Dasteez]

Most likely scenario: We eat Brissetts  oversized backup QB contract for 2020 and keep him as QB2. Let Hoyer go. Chad Kelly TBD. If we draft a QB, not sure what we’d do because then you keep 3 QBs again, which is quite honestly a waste of roster space IMO.

 

Ideal Scenario: Trade Brissett for a late round pick (we’re not getting a 3rd or 4th for JB and his contract) or if no trade options release him prior to Sunday. Again let Hoyer go (why the hell did we bring Hoyer in again?). Keep Kelly as QB2/QB3 to compete with QB we draft in 2nd-4th rd. 

[indyagent17]

Lets hope there is another team wanting Brisette but I sincerely doubt it. 

[Rally5]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

A 3rd round pick?   For Jacoby?

 

We have no leverage.   We will be lucky to get a 5.   Everyone knows we are up against a hard, expensive deadline.  
 

So we have to take whatever we can get.   Be prepared to likely be disappointed.  

Right on.