Colts passing game is a joke

[SteelCityColt]

4 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

How? It works 90% of the time unless we drops the ball

 

We have a QB that tends to hold the ball (and it's not like he's waiting for deep developing routes!), doesn't get it out quickly and seems to have issues with being able to throw with the anticipation and timing to hit a WR as they make their break. 

 

[BigQungus]

1 hour ago, Luck 4 president said:

Difference is Tom goes through progressions first. If everyone is covered then his check down guy likely has tons of room to run. Jacoby doesn’t go through his progressions and will check it down to someone who is covered. Tom (maybe not this year) would rip apart any zone defense he faced. Jacoby just looked lost against a zone. 

 

Well Jacoby did go through his progressions, but clearly no one was open. He had all day to throw back there but no one was open

[Nickster]

17 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

It's one thing I don't understand....why isn't the offense using more slant routes to get the wr some space??? The slant route is perfect for this offense but we rarely see it I don't get it

 

Everything is compacted with JBs inability to throw the ball past 10 yds with any consistency which takes away slants.  Everything is more difficult when you can't throw downfield and there isn't much of a threat of a downfield throw.

[VaAllDay757]

6 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

We have a QB that tends to hold the ball (and it's not like he's waiting for deep developing routes!), doesn't get it out quickly and seems to have issues with being able to throw with the anticipation and timing to hit a WR as they make their break. 

 

Maybe he's holding on to the ball a little longer because maybe that's how the offense is being ran? He made a quick pass to TY earlier in the game....don't know why this isn't brought up more during practice 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

yup. regardless, i think the play calling could have absolutely put JB in a better place to succeed even with his obvious struggles.

 

Maybe.  It's hard to say.  

 

But we scored 2 TDs on a combined 108 yds on the two drives.  

 

JB attempted and completed 1 pass for 7 yds.   That's it.  One pass attempt.  7 yds.  2 TDs.

 

Earlier in the 1st half JB was dreadful.

[csmopar]

What is gonna be absolutely hilarious is next game, Brissett is gonna come out and throw the ball for 300+ and 3 TDs and all of a sudden, it won’t suck as bad

 

 

[csmopar]

18 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Well Jacoby did go through his progressions, but clearly no one was open. He had all day to throw back there but no one was open

But to be fair, the reason they weren’t open is because most of the routes were tight in and short routes. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Rick Vinturi made a good point about our WR calling them JV guys. They are good if you scheme them open but they are not going to get open on their own.

[EastStreet]

42 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

By the downfield picture, JB was already going to the ground.  but if you threw early without feet set,

 

Congrats on your interception, or at minimum drilling your receiver in the back of his head; if you even got the pass off.

 

It was a 5 step drop from shotgun, His feet weren't even set to throw to Ebron (TE going to the flat), let alone the others. Braden essentially whiffed on a speed rush on the outside on what was essentially a 7 step type drop (5 from shotgun).  I'm replaying it over and over, in slo-mo and real time, from the NFL Game Pass condensed film file.  I'm waiting for all 22 so I can take snapshots of all players at same time for you, but it is easy to piece together now.

 

It was the only sack of the night, from the literal worst team in total QB pressure.

 

My observation of the receivers was purely to address the the state of open-ness vs the zone. 

 

If you're intent is to show that the OL whiffed on that one play, you win the prize! But you also succeeded in putting huge holes in the narrative going around that WRs/TEs aren't getting open, or that the switch to zone by Houston some how locked down our receiving options. 

[runthepost]

JB will be as good as his receivers are. He isn’t going to force anything but he won’t take much risk. 

[Colts_Fan12]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

What is gonna be absolutely hilarious is next game, Brissett is gonna come out and throw the ball for 300+ and 3 TDs and all of a sudden, it won’t suck as bad

 

 

it would be just another fluke to me. he has way more bad or average games to count a one off here and there. there is a trend of the average game manager play not the 300 yard 3 TD type of play.

[Thunderbolt]

Tunnel vision QB's have no room in the NFL. They're always in the dark, inability to see daylight, can't see around them. Time to look on the bright side of things so we can go to the next level. Time to draft a QB, put JB where he belongs, Back-up.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Rick Vinturi made a good point about our WR calling them JV guys. They are good if you scheme them open but they are not going to get open on their own.

Vinturi is a JV coach.

1-31 as a college coach, 2-17 in the NFL. 

He should limit to commenting on defense...

[DougDew]

42 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

Well Jacoby did go through his progressions, but clearly no one was open. He had all day to throw back there but no one was open

That's what I don't understand.  Since he has plenty of time, what are people saying he is looking at?  That he watches his first read for four seconds then when that receiver doesn't come open he checks down or runs?  I don't see that at all. 

 

Having all day to throw usually means a WR can break the pattern and get open, if they're good enough, or experienced enough to try.  That's a big part of how Mahomes succeeds.  Guys are wide open after the designed play breaks down.

 

If JB is scared to throw from a broken play to an open spot in the field, hoping the rather slow and under-talented UDFA WR gets there before the DB does, provided the WR even recognizes where that open spot is, I understand that.  He could be gun shy or very protective of the football.  But some of the other innuendo I don't see.

[EastStreet]

50 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Weird choice of words man.  But you do you brother!  lol

 

Common descriptor depending where your from. I could have drew from my stints in Europe, and said I'm going to get p!ssed, or off my trolley.... 

 

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Rick Vinturi made a good point about our WR calling them JV guys. They are good if you scheme them open but they are not going to get open on their own.

Honestly, IF there is a super stud at WR and we are close enough to draft him in round 1, I’d rather take that over any of the QBs coming out

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

Completely different trajectories though. Luck was officially back after a slow start and playing like an MVP...and the schedule was a joke. Even when they were still <.500...I didn't see any reason why they couldn't run the table.

There are really no "trajectories" in the NFL.  Each week and game is completely different.

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

Instead, you have a passing offense (and QB) that is regressing...and a schedule that is a bit tougher.

 

But we will watch and hope they win out and some things can align. 

I'm not sure the schedule is getting tougher.  NO is the only team above .500 I believe.  But I thought from the beginning of the season that the Colts were a 9-7 team.  That seem to be what they are... I see them going 3-2 the rest of the season.

[Dingus McGirt]

39 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

How? It works 90% of the time unless we drops the ball

I think he was zeroing in on the anticipation and timing part.

[EastStreet]

21 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Maybe.  It's hard to say.  

 

But we scored 2 TDs on a combined 108 yds on the two drives.  

 

JB attempted and completed 1 pass for 7 yds.   That's it.  One pass attempt.  7 yds.  2 TDs.

 

Earlier in the 1st half JB was dreadful.

I simply think the play calling was brutally predictable. See Superman's post about play calling and you'll see what I'm talking about. I've seen more creativity from a white castle cheese burger.

[richard pallo]

18 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Honestly, IF there is a super stud at WR and we are close enough to draft him in round 1, I’d rather take that over any of the QBs coming out

I'd rather trade for the proven guy like Dallas did with Cooper.  Instant production.  No waiting on a rookie to produce.  Not all rookies produce as we know.  No matter how high they are drafted. 

[lennymoore24]

2017 - Colts can't push the ball downfield with Brissett at QB.

2018 - Luck back and throws 39 TDs

2019 - Colts can't push the ball downfield with Brissett at QB.

 

Evidence seems clear to me.  You can blame the receivers, playcalling,and/or line.  But the fact is Luck could get it done with only one legitimate WR.  Brissett simply isn't a good NFL QB.  He is a placeholder.

[richard pallo]

JB sort of reminds me of Dak's earlier situation.  Dak has been on a pretty good team and was just meandering along.  Last year on the same good team he started out pretty average.  But as soon as Jerry brought in Cooper boy did things change for him.  Suddenly he and the boys took off.  I can see the same thing happening for JB.  He needs another reliable go to receiver besides TY.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if the same improvement would happen for JB.  Unless we make a move to get one we will never know though.  So I'm hoping Ballard uses all of his assets to upgrade WR and bring in a real playmaker.

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

2017 - Colts can't push the ball downfield with Brissett at QB.

2018 - Luck back and throws 39 TDs

2019 - Colts can't push the ball downfield with Brissett at QB.

 

Evidence seems clear to me.  You can blame the receivers, playcalling,and/or line.  But the fact is Luck could get it done with only one legitimate WR.  Brissett simply isn't a good NFL QB.  He is a placeholder.

As much as I don’t wanna admit this, I’m beginning to think you are correct 

[masterlock]

17 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Where have you been SINDF...there are lots of people that believe and welcome that.

There were lots of people who believed in Trent Richardson too. I'm not saying Jacobi is bad. But I don't really see him as a franchise QB. 'Serviceable' would be the word. 

[csmopar]

Just now, richard pallo said:

JB sort of reminds me of Dak's earlier situation.  Dak has been on a pretty good team and was just meandering along.  Last year on the same good team he started out pretty average.  But as soon as Jerry brought in Cooper boy did things change for him.  Suddenly he and the boys took off.  I can see the same thing happening for JB.  He needs another reliable go to receiver besides TY.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if the same improvement would happen for JB.  Unless we make a move to get one we will never know though.  So I'm hoping Ballard uses all of his assets to upgrade WR and bring in a real playmaker.

Hypothetically speaking, IF AB were to be cleared(which I’m not a fan of this) but would you try bringing him in this season?

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

 

On the replay from the back camera(what Brissett is seeing) it shows TY getting open in the middle of the zone, but Braden gets beat WAY too quickly. If he holds the block for like... 0.2 second more...  and if Brissett had the anticipation(not sure  he could make that throw as quickly as that because he needs to throw it before TY is open) that's a 15 yards gain and 1st down. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos?id=10103061-7033-0000-0107-9237a969484b

 

This is not on Brissett, but IMO some elite QBs make that play - first step into the pocket to get yourself those extra 0.2 seconds and then throw with anticipation to the spot TY is going to end up at. It's really hard to blame it on Brissett though... he shouldn't expect Braden to get beat this badly and this quickly.

 

Look at this:

 

this is about when he needs to throw it... but he is busy trying to avoid Martin. Maybe the elite of the elite with pocket presence would start stepping up into the pocket a fraction of a second earlier and create themselves a throwing window, but IMO it's not fair to ask that of any QB, this is just a really bad play by Braden. 

 

 

What is the point of this?  This is one play, yes Smith got beat but this play is not indicative of the JB's time to throw all night.  I could easily post screen shots showing JB holding the ball and a clean pocket around him.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

JB sort of reminds me of Dak's earlier situation.  Dak has been on a pretty good team and was just meandering along.  Last year on the same good team he started out pretty average.  But as soon as Jerry brought in Cooper boy did things change for him.  Suddenly he and the boys took off.  I can see the same thing happening for JB.  He needs another reliable go to receiver besides TY.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if the same improvement would happen for JB.  Unless we make a move to get one we will never know though.  So I'm hoping Ballard uses all of his assets to upgrade WR and bring in a real playmaker.

This is true. As much as everyone wants to complain we need another big WR.  There are few QB that would be able to make this WR good. How would Watson look with pascal and Rogers as his number 1 and 2. 

 

Why not get him better weapons before throwing him in the trash. 

[OffensivelyPC]

40 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Common descriptor depending where your from. I could have drew from my stints in Europe, and said I'm going to get p!ssed, or off my trolley.... 

 

hahaha! I love European slang.  American slang is mostly vulgar, which can be useful.  But most the time, even when we cuss at other people, it's in good fun.  And british slang (? right word?) makes me laugh a lot more.  Maybe cuz it's new, but still, it's fun.

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

2017 - Colts can't push the ball downfield with Brissett at QB.

2018 - Luck back and throws 39 TDs

2019 - Colts can't push the ball downfield with Brissett at QB.

 

Evidence seems clear to me.  You can blame the receivers, playcalling,and/or line.  But the fact is Luck could get it done with only one legitimate WR.  Brissett simply isn't a good NFL QB.  He is a placeholder.

Expecting JB to perform like Luck is just plain silly.  There is a huge difference talent wise between the two.  2017s team was garbage.  2018 team developed nicely and Luck took advantage with TY, Inman a veteran who was signed off the street, and Ebron who had a great year.  This year it's TY and that's it and he's missed three games and played hurt last night.  Everyone else is nothing special due to the injuries.  No real weapons for JB.  Plain and simple. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is true. As much as everyone wants to complain we need another big WR.  There are few QB that would be able to make this WR good. How would Watson look with pascal and Rogers as his number 1 and 2. 

 

Why not get him better weapons before throwing him in the trash. 

 

It's a risk benefit decision. Do you want a QB that raises the level of your WRs and removes stress form your D, or a QB that lowers the level of your WRs and adds stress to your OL (time to throw) and requires your D to play perfect.....  

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

hahaha! I love European slang.  American slang is mostly vulgar, which can be useful.  But most the time, even when we cuss at other people, it's in good fun.  And british slang (? right word?) makes me laugh a lot more.  Maybe cuz it's new, but still, it's fun.

It took me a while getting used to foreign slang, sarcasm, and other stuff, but it is fun. 

 

I still watch a lot of UK, Irish, and other TV programming. I prefer their dramas and noirs to most of US standard programming. 

[stitches]

19 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

What is the point of this?  This is one play, yes Smith got beat but this play is not indicative of the JB's time to throw all night.  I could easily post screen shots showing JB holding the ball and a clean pocket around him.

 

It was a follow up from earlier exchange with @ColtsBlueFL where I said I will have to take second a look at the play to comment on it. So I did. It wasn't meant as some general assessment of Smith or Brissett. 

 

If you've followed the numerous Brissett evaluation threads, you've probably.seen me bring up him holding the ball and having trouble going through progressions all the time. So yeah, I would agree, you probably can find multiple plays where Brissett holds the ball and is slow to read his progressions, etc. 

 

[FRW]

"Seriously people get over your hatred for Ck.  This is Riecks protege.  He would not be on the team if coach didn't think he had a chance to be good."

 

I don't hate him, I just don't see where all the love comes from. He's done nothing in the NFL except throw some passes in meaningless pre season games. I'm guessing if he was a great as you think he is he'd be starting. I can't image Frank and Chris would let a super bowl caliber QB languish on the PS where he could be poached by some QB hungry team.  I hope he gets a good look in the off season, but I'm not expecting much.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Expecting JB to perform like Luck is just plain silly.  There is a huge difference talent wise between the two.  2017s team was garbage.  2018 team developed nicely and Luck took advantage with TY, Inman a veteran who was signed off the street, and Ebron who had a great year.  This year it's TY and that's it and he's missed three games and played hurt last night.  Everyone else is nothing special due to the injuries.  No real weapons for JB.  Plain and simple. 

If the talent gap is so huge, you can understand then why many want someone closer to the level of Luck. 

 

BTW, TY missed 2.5 games with Luck, and was hobbled for several other games (with low snap counts). TY missing time with JB is something that Luck experienced as well. Luck also spent a third of his season with musical chairs in the OL and without Mack. X WR was also a revolving door of Grant - Inman - Pascal. Luck was also without Doyle, and only real option was Ebron. Let's not act like Luck had more weapons.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

It's a risk benefit decision. Do you want a QB that raises the level of your WRs and removes stress form your D, or a QB that lowers the level of your WRs and adds stress to your OL (time to throw) and requires your D to play perfect.....  

For me the jury is still out. With all the injuries for me I can’t make a judgement yet.  What I want to see is upgrading the Receiving group and see what he does in the offseason and give him a chance for another year. Unless your a very elite QB most QB are going to struggle with Rogers and pascal as your one and two.  I want to see if going into next season as the man and with no drama what happens.  Campbell had a TD earlier in the season where he threw it to the spot.  Being the guy he can go into the offseason and work with his WR on their own time like Luck did. Can another offseason and working with them and a WR coach help with timing and anticipation. I don’t know the answers to that but am willing to give him next season to see before making a rash judgement.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

If the talent gap is so huge, you can understand then why many want someone closer to the level of Luck. 

 

BTW, TY missed 2.5 games with Luck, and was hobbled for several other games (with low snap counts). TY missing time with JB is something that Luck experienced as well. Luck also spent a third of his season with musical chairs in the OL and without Mack. X WR was also a revolving door of Grant - Inman - Pascal. Luck was also without Doyle, and only real option was Ebron. Let's not act like Luck had more weapons.

How long did Luck play with TY. You can’t compare all those years together with Luck.

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

How long did Luck play with TY. You can’t compare all those years together with Luck.

Luck made Rogers look good. Made Ebron look like a pro bowler, etc. etc.. 

I get it, JB isn't Luck. Doesn't mean we have to embrace the level of play from JB and accept things.

[Coffeedrinker]

Anthony Gordon, QB Washington State.  Best passing QB in college football this year.  Will probably be available late 1st to middle 2nd round when it's all said and done (most considered him a 3rd round guy at the beginning of the year).  

Edit, actually with only 1 year of starting experience he may fall to late 2nd or 3rd.

 

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

Hypothetically speaking, IF AB were to be cleared(which I’m not a fan of this) but would you try bringing him in this season?

I don't see much downside this late in the season.  He might be down to one last chance.  He would be looking to signing with a team that has a chance to be in the playoffs and secure an opportunity for a chance at longer term employment.  If he was ever going to be a model citizen and teammate this would be the time.  His friend TY would most likely be right by his side introducing him to his new team and city.  Out of all the possible landing spots he could do a lot worse than Indianapolis.  And we know his football talent is far superior to any WR on our team.  So hypothetically speaking I would.  

[EastStreet]