Colts passing game is a joke

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I do think he intended to pass more against the Texans. I think they were unprepared for what the Texans did. They were not expecting that zone. That was probably the first game I think Jacoby actually looked confused. It reminded me of the game Darnold had against the patriots where he said he was seeing ghosts. Let’s not forget maybe those two new corners the Texans got are actually going to be pretty good. I thought Hardgreaves had a pretty good game. 

 

What I want to see from Jacoby is if he sees that kind of defense again does he  learn from it. That will tell me if he is growing as a QB.

 

Reich needs to worry less about running the D ball and worry about winning the game. Doesn’t matter how you win. I remember a lot of posters in the off season liking how much he was worrying about the run. They were right.

Over the last decade I can't recall a coach that loves to run it so much other than Rex Ryan when he coached the Jets. He had Sanchez at QB and was run 1st. They did make 2 AFC Title games in a pass happy league.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Over the last decade I can't recall a coach that loves to run it so much other than Rex Ryan when he coached the Jets. He had Sanchez at QB and was run 1st. They did make 2 AFC Title games in a pass happy league.

I think Jacoby is also given a lot of freedom to call a pass and a run. He needs to trust himself more. He even mentioned in the presser how he thought they were running well so they stayed with it. But you can’t just turn on  the switch and start throwing. After Williams scores the next drive is 3 and out with three passes. Why didn’t we mix it up. We were wearing them down with the run game. Also on the 4th and 7 why is Doyle on the sideline. He is the guy when you need ten yards he gets it for you.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Over the last decade I can't recall a coach that loves to run it so much other than Rex Ryan when he coached the Jets. He had Sanchez at QB and was run 1st. They did make 2 AFC Title games in a pass happy league.

 

Why does everyone think Frank likes to run it so much? Luck threw for over 4500 yards last year. His QB is trash, and he has an elite oline, what else is he supposed to do? Jeez. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Why does everyone think Frank likes to run it so much? Luck threw for over 4500 yards last year. His QB is trash, and he has an elite oline, what else is he supposed to do? Jeez. 

Reich even said this summer he was planning on running it a lot and wanted to be a top 5 rushing team before Andrew Luck retired. Also IMO, JB isn't trash. People throw around the word 'trash' and 'bad' way too much in here. If JB was trash we would stink as a team period and be something like 2-9 or 1-10. Not to put Hoyer down but watching him vs Miami was bad with 3 INT's.

[NannyMcafee]

12 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think Jacoby is also given a lot of freedom to call a pass and a run. He needs to trust himself more. He even mentioned in the presser how he thought they were running well so they stayed with it. But you can’t just turn on  the switch and start throwing. After Williams scores the next drive is 3 and out with three passes. Why didn’t we mix it up. We were wearing them down with the run game. Also on the 4th and 7 why is Doyle on the sideline. He is the guy when you need ten yards he gets it for you.

 

They need to start playing balanced football. When you're a handoff artist for 3 qtrs you cant just turn on the jets all of a sudden. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Yards per game can be skewed by how many offensive plays your run, or don't run as the case may be. Per attempt gives a better oranges oranges comparison I feel:

 

Passing: 6.1 Y/A (24th)

Rushing 4.5 Y/A (10th) 

 

It's harder to win with just a rushing attack these days though.  

 

I feel the more numbers the better understanding. Here's a snapshot just adding a couple more for 3 teams-

 

Passing-
                   Att/g            Y/A                 Yds                  Yds/Gm

IN            31.9 (25)        6.12             2148 (25)          195.3 (29)

TN           29.6 (26)        6.97             2062 (27)          206.2 (26)

NYG           38.6 (5)        5.91             2280 (19)         228.0 (18)

Rushing-

IN             31.7 (3)        4.54 (10)      1,586 (2)           144.2 (3)

TN            25.7 (14)      4.40 (12)      1132 (15)         113.2 (15)

NYG          21.4 (28)     4.40 (12)        942 (24)            94.2 (23)

 

41 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I do think he intended to pass more against the Texans. I think they were unprepared for what the Texans did. They were not expecting that zone. That was probably the first game I think Jacoby actually looked confused. It reminded me of the game Darnold had against the patriots where he said he was seeing ghosts. Let’s not forget maybe those two new corners the Texans got are actually going to be pretty good. I thought Hardgreaves had a pretty good game.

 

It's interesting both of those players were round 1 draft selections. The Oakland Raiders selected Conley in the first round (24th overall) of the 2017 draft. Likewise, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers selected Hargreaves in the first round (11th overall) of the 2016 NFL Draft.

 

So they were highly regarded prospects...

[ColtsBlueFL]

28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Over the last decade I can't recall a coach that loves to run it so much other than Rex Ryan when he coached the Jets. He had Sanchez at QB and was run 1st. They did make 2 AFC Title games in a pass happy league.

 

Pete Carroll says 'hello' ...

[Stephen]

22 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think Jacoby is also given a lot of freedom to call a pass and a run. He needs to trust himself more. He even mentioned in the presser how he thought they were running well so they stayed with it. But you can’t just turn on  the switch and start throwing. After Williams scores the next drive is 3 and out with three passes. Why didn’t we mix it up. We were wearing them down with the run game. Also on the 4th and 7 why is Doyle on the sideline. He is the guy when you need ten yards he gets it for you.

Think doyle  and hines were on sideline

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think Jacoby is also given a lot of freedom to call a pass and a run. He needs to trust himself more. He even mentioned in the presser how he thought they were running well so they stayed with it. But you can’t just turn on  the switch and start throwing. After Williams scores the next drive is 3 and out with three passes. Why didn’t we mix it up. We were wearing them down with the run game. Also on the 4th and 7 why is Doyle on the sideline. He is the guy when you need ten yards he gets it for you.

I am not sure how much freedom he really has? If he has complete freedom to throw or change a play from a run to a pass than it is on him for not passing for more yards. I am not sure this is the case. I am thinking if Reich calls a run on 3 and 3 or less, that is the final word on it. I may be wrong though.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Pete Carroll says 'hello' ...

For a while he loved it when he had Lynch. He gives Wilson a lot of freedom though to throw and Wilson over the past few years has put up nice numbers.

[stitches]

20 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Why does everyone think Frank likes to run it so much? Luck threw for over 4500 yards last year. His QB is trash, and he has an elite oline, what else is he supposed to do? Jeez. 

No idea. 

 

In 2014 as OC with the Chargers they passed 59% of the time

In 2015 as OC with the Chargers they passed 63% of the time

In 2018 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they passed 61% of the time

In 2019 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they are passing 50% of the time....

 

 

One of those is not like the others. 

[SteelCityColt]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

For a while he loved it when he had Lynch. He gives Wilson a lot of freedom though to throw and Wilson over the past few years has put up nice numbers.

Even when they ran heavily, Wilson had good numbers. 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, stitches said:

No idea. 

 

In 2014 as OC with the Chargers they passed 59% of the time

In 2015 as OC with the Chargers they passed 63% of the time

In 2018 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they passed 61% of the time

In 2019 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they are passing 50% of the time....

 

 

One of those is not like the others. 

Oo oo I think I can guess!

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

No idea. 

 

In 2014 as OC with the Chargers they passed 59% of the time

In 2015 as OC with the Chargers they passed 63% of the time

In 2018 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they passed 61% of the time

In 2019 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they are passing 50% of the time....

 

 

One of those is not like the others. 

It is because Rivers and Luck are better than JB but coming into the season Reich did say he wanted the team to be a top 5 rushing team and take some of the burden off of Luck. 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

No idea. 

 

In 2014 as OC with the Chargers they passed 59% of the time

In 2015 as OC with the Chargers they passed 63% of the time

In 2018 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they passed 61% of the time

In 2019 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they are passing 50% of the time....

 

 

One of those is not like the others. 

 

Only people that think this are Jacoby Brissett sympathizers, and god only knows what they're seeing because he's been bad. When you can't average 200 passing yards or a full TD per game (in the last 6) then you're probably not good at your job. I was looking at the list of guys that average better than JB and it's basically every starting QB in the league, Jeff Driskel included, and Andy Dalton on that atrocious Bengals team was averaging 82 more yards per game and 3x the TD's. That's bad. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

No idea. 

 

In 2014 as OC with the Chargers they passed 59% of the time

In 2015 as OC with the Chargers they passed 63% of the time

In 2018 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they passed 61% of the time

In 2019 as HC and playcaller for the Colts they are passing 50% of the time....

 

 

One of those is not like the others. 

To add, with the Eagles...

Passing/Rushing was

2016 609/438

2017 564/473

[stitches]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is because Rivers and Luck are better than JB but coming into the season Reich did say he wanted the team to be a top 5 rushing team and take some of the burden off of Luck. 

I don't think he meant taking the ball out of Luck's hand to THIS degree. This is suicidal for a coach to do. It's fireable offense if he indeed did it with Luck as the QB. 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I don't think he meant taking the ball out of Luck's hand to THIS degree. This is suicidal for a coach to do. It's fireable offense if he indeed did it with Luck as the QB. 

 

There's zero chance he would have implemented this gameplan with Andrew Luck. When your QB is scared to death to throw the ball, and way too late when he does, you have to play to your strengths: The Oline. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't think he meant taking the ball out of Luck's hand to THIS degree. This is suicidal for a coach to do. It's fireable offense if he indeed did it with Luck as the QB. 

Well yeah, I do not either but I am going by what Reich said. I am sure with Luck we would be passing more than now. Luck was a top 5-7 QB coming into the season. 

[stitches]

13 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

To add, with the Eagles...

Passing/Rushing was

2016 609/438

2017 564/473

Yep. And in 2017 Wentz got injured and didn't play the last 3 games in which they passed 51% of the time(which drags the overall stat for the season down too).

 

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Well yeah, I do not either but I am going by what Reich said. I am sure with Luck we would be passing more than now. Luck was a top 5-7 QB coming into the season. 

 

You want a conspiracy theory? (Disclaimer: THIS IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY AND I AM DOING IT MORE AS A FUN HYPOTHETICAL THAN THINKING IT'S TRUE AND I HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE IT'S TRUE) 

 

So... what if Reich knew Luck is retiring after the season and started preparing the team and the fans for run heavy team next season through his media statements? There were so many weird statements about the run game in the off-season from him... you can browse old threads here and see me expressing concern for those statements even at the time. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Reich knows there is a issue. He has mentioned it several times he wants the pass to be closer to 60%. Jacoby is actually very good and selling the play action. It’s really ridiculous we don’t use it more. We have to get out of the mindset of running it when it’s 2nd and short. Those are the times you should be using the play action and going deep. We really don’t have any WR except for TY to stretch the field. We probably did not use Cain correctly when he was here. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Only people that think this are Jacoby Brissett sympathizers, and god only knows what they're seeing because he's been bad. When you can't average 200 passing yards or a full TD per game (in the last 6) then you're probably not good at your job. I was looking at the list of guys that average better than JB and it's basically every starting QB in the league, Jeff Driskel included, and Andy Dalton on that atrocious Bengals team was averaging 82 more yards per game and 3x the TD's. That's bad. 

It has nothing to do with being a Brissett sympathizers, good grief. Answer me this, how is it JB can throw for 326 yards and 4 TD's in the 1st Houston game, then lay an egg in the 2nd one and Watt didn't even play?

 

I can answer my own question, Reich opened the playbook up in that 1st game. In the 2nd game we ran the ball almost all game. Why I have no idea.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It has nothing to do with being a Brissett sympathizers, good grief. Answer me this, how is it JB can throw for 326 yards and 4 TD's in the 1st Houston game, then lay an egg in the 2nd one and Watt didn't even play?

 

I can answer my own question, Reich opened the playbook up in that 1st game. In the 2nd game we ran the ball almost all game. Why I have no idea.

 

What other game has he played like that? I'll answer my own question, none. Since that game, he's been bad. In the last 6 he's been the worst starting QB in the league, seriously find me one that has played worse. 

 

The dude has been beyond average for 95% of the year. He's playing behind a great oline, he has some pretty solid weapons (better than Luck had), and has extremely pedestrian numbers. Those numbers would get any other starter in the league benched, but we have nobody else! Lol. We're stuck in Jacoby mode. 

[SteelCityColt]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It has nothing to do with being a Brissett sympathizers, good grief. Answer me this, how is it JB can throw for 326 yards and 4 TD's in the 1st Houston game, then lay an egg in the 2nd one and Watt didn't even play?

 

I can answer my own question, Reich opened the playbook up in that 1st game. In the 2nd game we ran the ball almost all game. Why I have no idea.

 

Honest question, do you think Reich is stupid, or maybe stubborn? Or do you think he's trying to plan around a passing game that's not firing? (note I said passing game not QB before I get pitchforked again). 

 

The problem is, just being able to move the ball on the ground doesn't directly improve your chances of winning. I know that sounds mad. It's more what it opens up, as well as being situationaly specific (i.e. short yard conversions/punching it in on the goaline). 

If you want to win consistently and for a sustained period of time in this league you've got to be able to move the ball in the air. One way or another it's got to be fixed.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yep. And in 2017 Wentz got injured and didn't play the last 3 games in which they passed 51% of the time(which drags the overall stat for the season down too).

 

 

You want a conspiracy theory? (Disclaimer: THIS IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY AND I AM DOING IT MORE AS A FUN HYPOTHETICAL THAN THINKING IT'S TRUE AND I HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE IT'S TRUE) 

 

So... what if Reich knew Luck is retiring after the season and started preparing the team and the fans for run heavy team next season through his media statements? There were so many weird statements about the run game in the off-season from him... you can browse old threads here and see me expressing concern for those statements even at the time. 

Never know but I doubt Reich seen that coming.

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Never know but I doubt Reich seen that coming.

 

I've said it before, but there is lot more to the story then I think we'll ever find out. 

 

Gut feel, football needed Andrew Luck more than he needed football. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Honest question, do you think Reich is stupid, or maybe stubborn? Or do you think he's trying to plan around a passing game that's not firing? (note I said passing game not QB before I get pitchforked again). 

I like Reich and think he is a good coach so I am just puzzled by Thursday's game plan. Even @EastStreet was puzzled by it. After the way JB tore Houston up in game 1, I thought in game 2 we would throw more is all I am saying.

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Never know but I doubt Reich seen that coming.

Yeah, I don't think he did either. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

39 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup, we don't no what the play is in terms of who is the 1st progression, etc.. We can typically make a good guess based on where he looks first. One of the digs on JB going back college is he struggles reading Ds, so that complicates things when trying to grade things.

 

Isn't Reich, Sirianni, Brady, and even Hoyer supposed to address and improve him- via meetings, film study, drills vs. the scout team, etc...

 

I can see the film study and scout team not getting him prepared if they ran man alignments every practice with the scout team and then in the game the Texans instead came out in zone a lot. If that is what happened.

 

39 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Kind of on the same topic, a buddy of mine who is kind of a guru (heavy FB resume), said that Kelly (C) and JB are often not on the same page. Given Kelly's history, not to mention Reich and Ballards heavy praise (said he was the best C in the NFL), leads me to believe JB is not seeing what Kelly is.

 

Maybe he isn't seeing what receivers are either. But which are correct?  And if JB is that bad, has not CK showed them enough to be given at least spot duty chances? Or are there items he still needs to improve upon?

 

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I've said it before, but there is lot more to the story then I think we'll ever find out. 

 

Gut feel, football needed Andrew Luck more than he needed football. 

 

Luck isn't the kinda guy to lie or mislead them, I'm sure he fully conveyed where his head was at. If he was thinking retirement back in March-April, then I'm 100% positive that Ballard/Reich were aware. 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yep. And in 2017 Wentz got injured and didn't play the last 3 games in which they passed 51% of the time(which drags the overall stat for the season down too).

Yup, pretty obvious that FR has not been a RTDB guy. He does want to be able to run it, and some essence of balance, but he's not a natural RTDB dude. And I don't think Ballard is pushing him in that direction either.

 

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It has nothing to do with being a Brissett sympathizers, good grief. Answer me this, how is it JB can throw for 326 yards and 4 TD's in the 1st Houston game, then lay an egg in the 2nd one and Watt didn't even play?

 

I can answer my own question, Reich opened the playbook up in that 1st game. In the 2nd game we ran the ball almost all game. Why I have no idea.

Me either.

truly a great mystery.

 

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Honest question, do you think Reich is stupid, or maybe stubborn? Or do you think he's trying to plan around a passing game that's not firing? (note I said passing game not QB before I get pitchforked again). 

you crack me up

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Reich and think he is a good coach so I am just puzzled by Thursday's game plan. Even @EastStreet was puzzled by it. After the way JB tore Houston up in game 1, I thought in game 2 we would throw more is all I am saying.

 

The gameplan is only as good as the people executing it. 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Reich and think he is a good coach so I am just puzzled by Thursday's game plan. Even @EastStreet was puzzled by it. After the way JB tore Houston up in game 1, I thought in game 2 we would throw more is all I am saying.

 

I agree, it was an odd plan. I don't buy the "we got confused by them playing zone". I mean once you realise it's zone, as long JB can identify the shell well enough you should really be able to pick it apart unless they start doing some fancy things. 

 

If you listen to the forum hive mind zone defense is the worst thing ever.... 

 

What I will say is I don't think you can compare one game to the other, different situations, different guys on the field. It's a week to week business. Why the Pats are so good, hard to game plan against a chameleon. 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Reich and think he is a good coach so I am just puzzled by Thursday's game plan. Even @EastStreet was puzzled by it. After the way JB tore Houston up in game 1, I thought in game 2 we would throw more is all I am saying.

Puzzled is a huge understatement. 

It totally broke my concept of logic.... 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

The gameplan is only as good as the people executing it. 

 

This. 

We are all guilty of outcome bias, because well, who really has the time to go through each play and work out why it failed. Sometimes it can be clear as day an open play where it's not been executed. 

 

Not offering this up as an excuse for Thursday, just a general observation. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I agree, it was an odd plan. I don't buy the "we got confused by them playing zone". I mean once you realise it's zone, as long JB can identify the shell well enough you should really be able to pick it apart unless they start doing some fancy things. 

 

If you listen to the forum hive mind zone defense is the worst thing ever.... 

 

What I will say is I don't think you can compare one game to the other, different situations, different guys on the field. It's a week to week business. Why the Pats are so good, hard to game plan against a chameleon. 

While I agree, it's incredibly rare that a team pivots so hard from what was a highly successful game plan. 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

The gameplan is only as good as the people executing it. 

 

but sometimes it's just a bad gameplan... 

or it's a bad game plan based on talent available. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

34 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Even when they ran heavily, Wilson had good numbers. 

 

Seahawks are still running heavy-  30.7 att/Gm and pass 32.7 att/Gm

 

Wilson still has good numbers.

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

While I agree, it's incredibly rare that a team pivots so hard from what was a highly successful game plan. 

 

I think it depends on a huge variety of factors. For one I think there a difference between O and D in that you've got more freedom to change it up on O, in fact you really should, unless you're so good you can execute at will. Odd example, but Harbough era 49ers with Smith, who you knew were going to be power run and short stuff. But would still go and out do just that even if the D knew it was coming.